Johnny Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 47 minutes ago, KingRaj91 said: I don't understand the hype around acquiring a winger, we have many wingers in the pipeline that are looking to take spots next year and it makes no sense to bring in a veteran winger with salary or even a rental. If you want to make a move, you make a move for a cost-controlled young center, those are players you give up assets for. Winger isnt ideal, but where do we find a 24-27 year old second line centre with 2 more years at 3-4.5 mil there is a lot of talk about retaining picks and prospects when rebuilding or even not a true contender the opposite is true when you are a contender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: I'm concerned that jaw injury has concussion like symptoms tied to it. It would explain a few things. Depression, lack of focus, headaches. It has also made him more cautious around the net. I'm hoping if this is the case, time will correct it. It seems more than just a really bad sophomore jinx. I really like this idea more than a trade or a cap dump. Send to doctor and put him in LTIR... thats 5mil for Alvin to do magic with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Tusk said: We actually have more centers than wingers this year Coconut. They have been playing on the wing because we have too many. And Joshua's faceoff percentage is better than Petey's, by the way. And better than Lafferty, Aman... I think if he had a better opportunity Joshua can impress even you. Player Season Team Pos GP FO FOW FOL FOW% J.T. Miller 20232024 VAN C 45 876 478 398 54.6 Teddy Blueger 20232024 VAN C 31 431 223 208 51.7 Pius Suter 20232024 VAN C 31 285 143 142 50.2 Dakota Joshua 20232024 VAN C 44 53 26 27 49.1 Elias Pettersson 20232024 VAN C 45 443 215 228 48.5 Nils Aman 20232024 VAN C 22 96 43 53 44.8 Sam Lafferty 20232024 VAN C 45 216 82 134 38 Jack Studnicka 20232024 VAN,SJS C 5 11 4 7 36.4 Linus Karlsson 20232024 VAN C 4 9 2 7 22.2 Yes, I'm aware, it's a common practice for teams to have centers on the wing. It's useful utility to have in your forward group. I'm less convinced of Joshua being a top six player though, I think he's a player we could actually end up losing to UFA. If he keeps it up he'll be due for a respectable raise as a third liner. Joshua will be 28 in May, there's a better chance he simply is what he is at this point, a solid third liner. But hey, I could be wrong. And even then, Joshua's faceoff percentage really isn't significantly better. Not even a full percent. If I'm reading the numbers correctly Joshua's also taken significantly fewer faceoffs so it's a much smaller sample size. I think it's just more likely management either view Pettersson and Miller as a 1-2 punch or sees the 2C spot as an area they may address in the offseason. At which point one of Pettersson or Miller is probably a top line winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Water Walker Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: bad sophomore jinx. That was my take as well until the last game, buddy calls for the puck and Kuz gives it to him without looking, you know Tocc isn't letting that go. We have a good 2nd line, people just call them the 3rd line. It is nice to be heading into the end of January 2024 looking this good, maybe 1 minor trade is all they need, this is already a tight group. It may be time to start focusing on who will be the "Black Aces" IF the Canucks make the playoffs. GCG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 10 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Yes, I'm aware, it's a common practice for teams to have centers on the wing. It's useful utility to have in your forward group. I'm less convinced of Joshua being a top six player though, I think he's a player we could actually end up losing to UFA. If he keeps it up he'll be due for a respectable raise as a third liner. Joshua will be 28 in May, there's a better chance he simply is what he is at this point, a solid third liner. But hey, I could be wrong. And even then, Joshua's faceoff percentage really isn't significantly better. Not even a full percent. If I'm reading the numbers correctly Joshua's also taken significantly fewer faceoffs so it's a much smaller sample size. I think it's just more likely management either view Pettersson and Miller as a 1-2 punch or sees the 2C spot as an area they may address in the offseason. At which point one of Pettersson or Miller is probably a top line winger. Joshua's hands in close are top 6 caliber, not sure if his other offensive attributes are (namely passing/vision and shot). Is that alone good enough to be solid top 6 player? I don't know. I'd say it's a bit of a bet to bank on him being that. If an injury in the top 6 comes up, it would be interesting to give him a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down By the River Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 21 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: I'm concerned that jaw injury has concussion like symptoms tied to it. It would explain a few things. Depression, lack of focus, headaches. It has also made him more cautious around the net. I'm hoping if this is the case, time will correct it. It seems more than just a really bad sophomore jinx. His reaction time definitely seems super slow. He lost a 50/50 puck battle back in Columbus and then it was just as if he forgot that he needed to move his feet. I really don't think it is a matter of him not wanting to play Tocchet's system, and I think it is BS that people are blaming Tocchet. There is definitely something fundamentally off, whether it is mental, conditioning, or injury, I'm not sure, but everyone is running out of runway to figure this out in time for playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 11 minutes ago, Frozen Water Walker said: That was my take as well until the last game, buddy calls for the puck and Kuz gives it to him without looking, you know Tocc isn't letting that go. We have a good 2nd line, people just call them the 3rd line. It is nice to be heading into the end of January 2024 looking this good, maybe 1 minor trade is all they need, this is already a tight group. It may be time to start focusing on who will be the "Black Aces" IF the Canucks make the playoffs. GCG Yeah that was a rookie mistake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, Frozen Water Walker said: That was my take as well until the last game, buddy calls for the puck and Kuz gives it to him without looking, you know Tocc isn't letting that go. We have a good 2nd line, people just call them the 3rd line. It is nice to be heading into the end of January 2024 looking this good, maybe 1 minor trade is all they need, this is already a tight group. It may be time to start focusing on who will be the "Black Aces" IF the Canucks make the playoffs. GCG Exactly. Any trades we can do to stock up on ECHL or AHL with some experienced guys. But it looks like baby canucks will have a great playoff run too. But especially because there is no cap space on the big squad... we cant really add without subtraction and we are not going to get much for Kuzy so he is worth more to us as a "he will come around" than a trade. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Joshua's hands in close are top 6 caliber, not sure if his other offensive attributes are (namely passing/vision and shot). Is that alone good enough to be solid top 6 player? I don't know. I'd say it's a bit of a bet to bank on him being that. If an injury in the top 6 comes up, it would be interesting to give him a shot. Maybe on the low end as a middle six tweener, but a top six center? I dunno about that. Sometimes players get a chance to show if they're capable of more when injuries occur, hopefully it doesn't come to that. Losing Pettersson or Miller probably wouldn't have us at risk of losing out on a playoff spot or anything, but it would absolutely hurt and we'd be hard pressed to replace either player internally. I get that this is also part of the argument for looking for a 2C, but it's hard for be prepared to everything under cap constraints. Most teams are going to feel the loss of a legit top six center. Edited January 19 by Coconuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRaj91 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 44 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I don't disagree, but realistically most teams around the league don't have the depth to sufficiently be prepared to lose a Miller or Pettersson caliber center I understand the argument for wanting a 2C, but I'm not sure that's realistic sooner than later whereas Allvin will have to navigate a trade deadline sooner than later May be more flexibility to improve the center depth in the offseason I think management would prefer Pettersson and Miller down the middle with and having two top six lines going imo, but that's just my two cents, it's easier to shut down a super line than two legit top 6 lines come playoff time I'm also operating under the assumption Pettersson extends and plays primarily as a center though Yeah true. I guess my main point is, if you're going to throw tier-A prospects at Guentzel, I'd add a bit more and get a bonafide youngish 2C. Horvat went for a pick, a top 9 forward and a tier-B prospect, I'm sure we can get a young 2C for somewhat of a similar package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 21 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Yes, I'm aware, it's a common practice for teams to have centers on the wing. It's useful utility to have in your forward group. I'm less convinced of Joshua being a top six player though, I think he's a player we could actually end up losing to UFA. If he keeps it up he'll be due for a respectable raise as a third liner. Joshua will be 28 in May, there's a better chance he simply is what he is at this point, a solid third liner. But hey, I could be wrong. And even then, Joshua's faceoff percentage really isn't significantly better. Not even a full percent. If I'm reading the numbers correctly Joshua's also taken significantly fewer faceoffs so it's a much smaller sample size. I think it's just more likely management either view Pettersson and Miller as a 1-2 punch or sees the 2C spot as an area they may address in the offseason. At which point one of Pettersson or Miller is probably a top line winger. Well, Joshua, that 3rd line center playing wing has tied Mik in points, has more than Suter and Kuzmenko. Player Season Team Pos GP G A P J.T. Miller 20232024 VAN C 45 20 41 61 Elias Pettersson 20232024 VAN C 45 24 35 59 Quinn Hughes 20232024 VAN D 45 11 42 53 Brock Boeser 20232024 VAN R 45 27 19 46 Filip Hronek 20232024 VAN D 45 3 33 36 Dakota Joshua 20232024 VAN C 44 12 10 22 Ilya Mikheyev 20232024 VAN R 41 10 12 22 Conor Garland 20232024 VAN R 45 6 15 21 Teddy Blueger 20232024 VAN C 31 5 14 19 Sam Lafferty 20232024 VAN C 45 10 9 19 Andrei Kuzmenko 20232024 VAN L 39 8 11 19 Tyler Myers 20232024 VAN D 45 3 15 18 Nils Hoglander 20232024 VAN L 43 12 6 18 Pius Suter 20232024 VAN C 31 8 4 12 Phillip Di Giuseppe 20232024 VAN L 32 3 5 8 Anthony Beauvillier 20232024 VAN,CHI L 22 2 6 8 Ian Cole 20232024 VAN D 44 1 6 7 Carson Soucy 20232024 VAN D 20 2 4 6 Nils Aman 20232024 VAN C 22 2 3 5 Nikita Zadorov 20232024 CGY,VAN D 20 0 4 4 Noah Juulsen 20232024 VAN D 29 0 2 2 Mark Friedman 20232024 VAN D 18 0 1 1 Jack Studnicka 20232024 VAN,SJS C 5 1 0 1 Linus Karlsson 20232024 VAN C 4 0 0 0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, KingRaj91 said: Yeah true. I guess my main point is, if you're going to throw tier-A prospects at Guentzel, I'd add a bit more and get a bonafide youngish 2C. Horvat went for a pick, a top 9 forward and a tier-B prospect, I'm sure we can get a young 2C for somewhat of a similar package. I don't disagree though. The caveat to this is that as a team who's near the top of the league our 1st is likely to be worth less in a trade, I don't think management wants to trade A-tier prospects either, we don't have many of those. I think management really likes what they have in Lekkerimaki and Willander. I'd be loathe to move either prospect. Context is important regarding the 1st that we got for Horvat and sent out too because of the conditions. The Isles looked like a team that were sliding, there was a chance the pick could have gone to the following season as an unprotected 1st if the Isles had continued to slide instead of making the playoffs. That's what made the pick appealing to Detroit. Our 1st likely isn't equal to the 1st NYI traded for Horvat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tusk said: Well, Joshua, that 3rd line center playing wing has tied Mik in points, has more than Suter and Kuzmenko. Player Season Team Pos GP G A P J.T. Miller 20232024 VAN C 45 20 41 61 Elias Pettersson 20232024 VAN C 45 24 35 59 Quinn Hughes 20232024 VAN D 45 11 42 53 Brock Boeser 20232024 VAN R 45 27 19 46 Filip Hronek 20232024 VAN D 45 3 33 36 Dakota Joshua 20232024 VAN C 44 12 10 22 Ilya Mikheyev 20232024 VAN R 41 10 12 22 Conor Garland 20232024 VAN R 45 6 15 21 Teddy Blueger 20232024 VAN C 31 5 14 19 Sam Lafferty 20232024 VAN C 45 10 9 19 Andrei Kuzmenko 20232024 VAN L 39 8 11 19 Tyler Myers 20232024 VAN D 45 3 15 18 Nils Hoglander 20232024 VAN L 43 12 6 18 Pius Suter 20232024 VAN C 31 8 4 12 Phillip Di Giuseppe 20232024 VAN L 32 3 5 8 Anthony Beauvillier 20232024 VAN,CHI L 22 2 6 8 Ian Cole 20232024 VAN D 44 1 6 7 Carson Soucy 20232024 VAN D 20 2 4 6 Nils Aman 20232024 VAN C 22 2 3 5 Nikita Zadorov 20232024 CGY,VAN D 20 0 4 4 Noah Juulsen 20232024 VAN D 29 0 2 2 Mark Friedman 20232024 VAN D 18 0 1 1 Jack Studnicka 20232024 VAN,SJS C 5 1 0 1 Linus Karlsson 20232024 VAN C 4 0 0 0 And I'd argue that speaks not only to the strength of our third line, but also to the weakness of our second line. Our third and second line having similar point production can be looked at as either a boon, cause for concern, or both. I think it's both. Hence why an upgrade on Kuzmenko in our top six could be a benefit. Edited January 19 by Coconuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Playoffs are going to be tough, hard fought tug of wars. Penalties will be different. Hard checking will make skill guys play more peripheral. Finesse guys will be pushed to the outside. More blocked shots will be needed. We'll need a extra battering ram to go to the crease. Guys like Kuz and Boes will be there to clean up the garbage goals. Guentzal is good but he's not going to increase our net front presence to a level we need. We need a skilled big forward, with jam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibu Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Pears said: How many players are on a 40 goal pace? How many contending teams trade those kinds of players? Exactly. We may be the first, and the smartest. But why won't you answer the question? Would you trade Boeser for a DJ clone? I would and perhaps there is a GM out there dumb enough to do it for the exact reason you espouse. But as I said, this is a pipe dream for me because no GM would want to face the outrage of the majority of fans who are like you and can't see past the statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: And I'd argue that speaks not only to the strength of our third line, but also to the weakness of our second line. Our third and second line having similar point production can be looked at as either a boon, cause for concern, or both. I think it's both. Hence why an upgrade on Kuzmenko in our top six could be a benefit. Our second line sucks ass so bad. Mik is mia, Kuz is shell shocked and jumpy, passes to whoever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, Hairy Kneel said: Our second line sucks ass so bad. Mik is mia, Kuz is shell shocked and jumpy, passes to whoever. Our second line seems like the obvious weakness on this roster, which is why it's encouraging that the Canucks supposedly want to bolster their top six I do think it'll end up being a winger, and that Kuzmenko probably ends up being flipped as part of said deal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: And I'd argue that speaks not only to the strength of our third line, but also to the weakness of our second line. Our third and second line having similar point production can be looked at as either a boon, cause for concern, or both. I think it's both. Hence why an upgrade on Kuzmenko in our top six could be a benefit. how does PA get an upgrade with no cap space? And who wants Kuzy more than the canucks fans and the Canucks players? We have the patience even if Tocchet doesnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Lou Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, KingRaj91 said: Yeah true. I guess my main point is, if you're going to throw tier-A prospects at Guentzel, I'd add a bit more and get a bonafide youngish 2C. Horvat went for a pick, a top 9 forward and a tier-B prospect, I'm sure we can get a young 2C for somewhat of a similar package. I doubt it. Horvat was already aged 28 at the time of his trade. Every team in the league knew we had very limited cap and could only afford to keep one of J.T and Horvat. It was also known that contract negotiations weren't going well and had broken down. Horvat in no way would be a simular return to a younger player with a simular stat line. Alvin really did a great job with that considering the situation he was placed in.... Just my 2 cents... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, Malibu said: Exactly. We may be the first, and the smartest. But why won't you answer the question? Would you trade Boeser for a DJ clone? I would and perhaps there is a GM out there dumb enough to do it for the exact reason you espouse. But as I said, this is a pipe dream for me because no GM would want to face the outrage of the majority of fans who are like you and can't see past the statistics. Who are you and why are you trying to pry BB06 away from us.... f*ck off man. We aint selling a guy just starting to mature into a JT but actually smiles laughs and has great hair. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tusk said: how does PA get an upgrade with no cap space? And who wants Kuzy more than the canucks fans and the Canucks players? We have the patience even if Tocchet doesnt. That's the tricky part, it'll have to be a cap in/cap out move which means it'd require moving a larger cap hit. Likely one of Garland, Kuzmenko, or maybe even Mikheyev. It's what Tochett thinks that matters though, what him and management think, not so much what the fans think. I don't necessarily think it'll be an easy trade to make, but I could see Kuzmenko being open to a fresh start somewhere else, he's going to want to get another contract after this one so it makes sense for him to try and rebuild his value. And I do think his value has taken a hit this season. He'll be 30 when his deal is up, seems likely he'll want to stay in this league as opposed to going back to the KHL. Kuz does have a 12-team NTC though, so it's not as if he can just be traded anywhere. Edited January 19 by Coconuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 My apologies! I'm getting images like these popping into my head today. What does it mean ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said: That's his boss, smart commnets, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Kuz likely out tomorrow 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibu Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Tusk said: Who are you and why are you trying to pry BB06 away from us.... f*ck off man. We aint selling a guy just starting to mature into a JT but actually smiles laughs and has great hair. A Canuck fan for 54 years. Players come and go, I'm only intersted in WINNING the cup. Players that can survive a cup run are the ones I want. I don't see BB as a player designed for that, so now is the time to dump him of course. As they say on the stock market, when the ducks are quacking, feed them. But I acknowledge there probably isn't much worthwhile interest in him, but if we could get another DJ, wouldn't that be nice! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.