PGT - Arizona at Vancouver - 01/18/2024

[Johnny]

47 minutes ago, KingRaj91 said:

I don't understand the hype around acquiring a winger, we have many wingers in the pipeline that are looking to take spots next year and it makes no sense to bring in a veteran winger with salary or even a rental. If you want to make a move, you make a move for a cost-controlled young center, those are players you give up assets for.

Winger isnt ideal, but where do we find a 24-27 year old second line centre with 2 more years at 3-4.5 mil

 

there is a lot of talk about retaining picks and prospects when rebuilding or even not a true contender 

 

the opposite is true when you are a contender 

[Tusk]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'm concerned that jaw injury has concussion like symptoms tied to it. It would explain a few things. Depression, lack of focus, headaches.

It has also made him more cautious around the net. I'm hoping if this is the case, time will correct it. It seems more than just a really bad sophomore jinx.

I really like this idea more than a trade or a cap dump. Send to doctor and put him in LTIR... thats 5mil for Alvin to do magic with

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Tusk said:

We actually have more centers than wingers this year Coconut.

They have been playing on the wing because we have too many.

And Joshua's faceoff percentage is better than Petey's, by the way. And better than Lafferty, Aman... I think if he had a better opportunity Joshua can impress even you.

 

Player	Season	Team	Pos	GP	FO	FOW	FOL	FOW%
J.T. Miller	20232024	VAN	C	45	876	478	398	54.6
Teddy Blueger	20232024	VAN	C	31	431	223	208	51.7
Pius Suter	20232024	VAN	C	31	285	143	142	50.2
Dakota Joshua	20232024	VAN	C	44	53	26	27	49.1
Elias Pettersson	20232024	VAN	C	45	443	215	228	48.5
Nils Aman	20232024	VAN	C	22	96	43	53	44.8
Sam Lafferty	20232024	VAN	C	45	216	82	134	38
Jack Studnicka	20232024	VAN,SJS	C	5	11	4	7	36.4
Linus Karlsson	20232024	VAN	C	4	9	2	7	22.2

 

Yes, I'm aware, it's a common practice for teams to have centers on the wing. It's useful utility to have in your forward group. 

 

I'm less convinced of Joshua being a top six player though, I think he's a player we could actually end up losing to UFA. If he keeps it up he'll be due for a respectable raise as a third liner. Joshua will be 28 in May, there's a better chance he simply is what he is at this point, a solid third liner. But hey, I could be wrong. And even then, Joshua's faceoff percentage really isn't significantly better. Not even a full percent. If I'm reading the numbers correctly Joshua's also taken significantly fewer faceoffs so it's a much smaller sample size. 

 

I think it's just more likely management either view Pettersson and Miller as a 1-2 punch or sees the 2C spot as an area they may address in the offseason. At which point one of Pettersson or Miller is probably a top line winger. 

[Frozen Water Walker]

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

bad sophomore jinx.

That was my take as well until the last game, buddy calls for the puck and Kuz gives it to him without looking, you know Tocc isn't letting that go.

 

We have a good 2nd line, people just call them the 3rd line.

 

It is nice to be heading into the end of January 2024 looking this good, maybe 1 minor trade is all they need, this is already a tight group.

 

It may be time to start focusing on who will be the "Black Aces" IF the Canucks make the playoffs.

 

GCG

[Wilbur]

10 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Yes, I'm aware, it's a common practice for teams to have centers on the wing. It's useful utility to have in your forward group. 

 

I'm less convinced of Joshua being a top six player though, I think he's a player we could actually end up losing to UFA. If he keeps it up he'll be due for a respectable raise as a third liner. Joshua will be 28 in May, there's a better chance he simply is what he is at this point, a solid third liner. But hey, I could be wrong. And even then, Joshua's faceoff percentage really isn't significantly better. Not even a full percent. If I'm reading the numbers correctly Joshua's also taken significantly fewer faceoffs so it's a much smaller sample size. 

 

I think it's just more likely management either view Pettersson and Miller as a 1-2 punch or sees the 2C spot as an area they may address in the offseason. At which point one of Pettersson or Miller is probably a top line winger. 

Joshua's hands in close are top 6 caliber, not sure if his other offensive attributes are (namely passing/vision and shot).  Is that alone good enough to be solid top 6 player?  I don't know.  I'd say it's a bit of a bet to bank on him being that.  If an injury in the top 6 comes up, it would be interesting to give him a shot.

[Down By the River]

21 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'm concerned that jaw injury has concussion like symptoms tied to it. It would explain a few things. Depression, lack of focus, headaches.

It has also made him more cautious around the net. I'm hoping if this is the case, time will correct it. It seems more than just a really bad sophomore jinx.

His reaction time definitely seems super slow. He lost a 50/50 puck battle back in Columbus and then it was just as if he forgot that he needed to move his feet. 

 

I really don't think it is a matter of him not wanting to play Tocchet's system, and I think it is BS that people are blaming Tocchet. There is definitely something fundamentally off, whether it is mental, conditioning, or injury, I'm not sure, but everyone is running out of runway to figure this out in time for playoffs. 

 

[Hairy Kneel]

11 minutes ago, Frozen Water Walker said:

That was my take as well until the last game, buddy calls for the puck and Kuz gives it to him without looking, you know Tocc isn't letting that go.

 

We have a good 2nd line, people just call them the 3rd line.

 

It is nice to be heading into the end of January 2024 looking this good, maybe 1 minor trade is all they need, this is already a tight group.

 

It may be time to start focusing on who will be the "Black Aces" IF the Canucks make the playoffs.

 

GCG

Yeah that was a rookie mistake

[Tusk]

9 minutes ago, Frozen Water Walker said:

That was my take as well until the last game, buddy calls for the puck and Kuz gives it to him without looking, you know Tocc isn't letting that go.

 

We have a good 2nd line, people just call them the 3rd line.

 

It is nice to be heading into the end of January 2024 looking this good, maybe 1 minor trade is all they need, this is already a tight group.

 

It may be time to start focusing on who will be the "Black Aces" IF the Canucks make the playoffs.

 

GCG

Exactly. Any trades we can do to stock up on ECHL or AHL with some experienced guys. But it looks like baby canucks will have a great playoff run too.

But especially because there is no cap space on the big squad... we cant really add without subtraction and we are not going to get much for Kuzy so he is worth more to us as a "he will come around" than a trade.

[Coconuts]

10 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Joshua's hands in close are top 6 caliber, not sure if his other offensive attributes are (namely passing/vision and shot).  Is that alone good enough to be solid top 6 player?  I don't know.  I'd say it's a bit of a bet to bank on him being that.  If an injury in the top 6 comes up, it would be interesting to give him a shot.

 

Maybe on the low end as a middle six tweener, but a top six center? I dunno about that. Sometimes players get a chance to show if they're capable of more when injuries occur, hopefully it doesn't come to that. 

 

Losing Pettersson or Miller probably wouldn't have us at risk of losing out on a playoff spot or anything, but it would absolutely hurt and we'd be hard pressed to replace either player internally. I get that this is also part of the argument for looking for a 2C, but it's hard for be prepared to everything under cap constraints. Most teams are going to feel the loss of a legit top six center.

Edited January 19 by Coconuts

[KingRaj91]

44 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I don't disagree, but realistically most teams around the league don't have the depth to sufficiently be prepared to lose a Miller or Pettersson caliber center 

 

I understand the argument for wanting a 2C, but I'm not sure that's realistic sooner than later whereas Allvin will have to navigate a trade deadline sooner than later

 

May be more flexibility to improve the center depth in the offseason 

 

I think management would prefer Pettersson and Miller down the middle with and having two top six lines going imo, but that's just my two cents, it's easier to shut down a super line than two legit top 6 lines come playoff time

 

I'm also operating under the assumption Pettersson extends and plays primarily as a center though 

Yeah true. I guess my main point is, if you're going to throw tier-A prospects at Guentzel, I'd add a bit more and get a bonafide youngish 2C. Horvat went for a pick, a top 9 forward and a tier-B prospect, I'm sure we can get a young 2C for somewhat of a similar package.

[Tusk]

21 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Yes, I'm aware, it's a common practice for teams to have centers on the wing. It's useful utility to have in your forward group. 

 

I'm less convinced of Joshua being a top six player though, I think he's a player we could actually end up losing to UFA. If he keeps it up he'll be due for a respectable raise as a third liner. Joshua will be 28 in May, there's a better chance he simply is what he is at this point, a solid third liner. But hey, I could be wrong. And even then, Joshua's faceoff percentage really isn't significantly better. Not even a full percent. If I'm reading the numbers correctly Joshua's also taken significantly fewer faceoffs so it's a much smaller sample size. 

 

I think it's just more likely management either view Pettersson and Miller as a 1-2 punch or sees the 2C spot as an area they may address in the offseason. At which point one of Pettersson or Miller is probably a top line winger. 

Well, Joshua, that 3rd line center playing wing has tied Mik in points, has more than Suter and Kuzmenko. 

Player	Season	Team	Pos	GP	G	A	P
J.T. Miller	20232024	VAN	C	45	20	41	61
Elias Pettersson	20232024	VAN	C	45	24	35	59
Quinn Hughes	20232024	VAN	D	45	11	42	53
Brock Boeser	20232024	VAN	R	45	27	19	46
Filip Hronek	20232024	VAN	D	45	3	33	36
Dakota Joshua	20232024	VAN	C	44	12	10	22
Ilya Mikheyev	20232024	VAN	R	41	10	12	22
Conor Garland	20232024	VAN	R	45	6	15	21
Teddy Blueger	20232024	VAN	C	31	5	14	19
Sam Lafferty	20232024	VAN	C	45	10	9	19
Andrei Kuzmenko	20232024	VAN	L	39	8	11	19
Tyler Myers	20232024	VAN	D	45	3	15	18
Nils Hoglander	20232024	VAN	L	43	12	6	18
Pius Suter	20232024	VAN	C	31	8	4	12
Phillip Di Giuseppe	20232024	VAN	L	32	3	5	8
Anthony Beauvillier	20232024	VAN,CHI	L	22	2	6	8
Ian Cole	20232024	VAN	D	44	1	6	7
Carson Soucy	20232024	VAN	D	20	2	4	6
Nils Aman	20232024	VAN	C	22	2	3	5
Nikita Zadorov	20232024	CGY,VAN	D	20	0	4	4
Noah Juulsen	20232024	VAN	D	29	0	2	2
Mark Friedman	20232024	VAN	D	18	0	1	1
Jack Studnicka	20232024	VAN,SJS	C	5	1	0	1
Linus Karlsson	20232024	VAN	C	4	0	0	0

[Coconuts]

Just now, KingRaj91 said:

Yeah true. I guess my main point is, if you're going to throw tier-A prospects at Guentzel, I'd add a bit more and get a bonafide youngish 2C. Horvat went for a pick, a top 9 forward and a tier-B prospect, I'm sure we can get a young 2C for somewhat of a similar package.

 

I don't disagree though. The caveat to this is that as a team who's near the top of the league our 1st is likely to be worth less in a trade, I don't think management wants to trade A-tier prospects either, we don't have many of those. I think management really likes what they have in Lekkerimaki and Willander. 

 

I'd be loathe to move either prospect. 

 

Context is important regarding the 1st that we got for Horvat and sent out too because of the conditions. The Isles looked like a team that were sliding, there was a chance the pick could have gone to the following season as an unprotected 1st if the Isles had continued to slide instead of making the playoffs. That's what made the pick appealing to Detroit. Our 1st likely isn't equal to the 1st NYI traded for Horvat. 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

Well, Joshua, that 3rd line center playing wing has tied Mik in points, has more than Suter and Kuzmenko. 

Player	Season	Team	Pos	GP	G	A	P
J.T. Miller	20232024	VAN	C	45	20	41	61
Elias Pettersson	20232024	VAN	C	45	24	35	59
Quinn Hughes	20232024	VAN	D	45	11	42	53
Brock Boeser	20232024	VAN	R	45	27	19	46
Filip Hronek	20232024	VAN	D	45	3	33	36
Dakota Joshua	20232024	VAN	C	44	12	10	22
Ilya Mikheyev	20232024	VAN	R	41	10	12	22
Conor Garland	20232024	VAN	R	45	6	15	21
Teddy Blueger	20232024	VAN	C	31	5	14	19
Sam Lafferty	20232024	VAN	C	45	10	9	19
Andrei Kuzmenko	20232024	VAN	L	39	8	11	19
Tyler Myers	20232024	VAN	D	45	3	15	18
Nils Hoglander	20232024	VAN	L	43	12	6	18
Pius Suter	20232024	VAN	C	31	8	4	12
Phillip Di Giuseppe	20232024	VAN	L	32	3	5	8
Anthony Beauvillier	20232024	VAN,CHI	L	22	2	6	8
Ian Cole	20232024	VAN	D	44	1	6	7
Carson Soucy	20232024	VAN	D	20	2	4	6
Nils Aman	20232024	VAN	C	22	2	3	5
Nikita Zadorov	20232024	CGY,VAN	D	20	0	4	4
Noah Juulsen	20232024	VAN	D	29	0	2	2
Mark Friedman	20232024	VAN	D	18	0	1	1
Jack Studnicka	20232024	VAN,SJS	C	5	1	0	1
Linus Karlsson	20232024	VAN	C	4	0	0	0

 

And I'd argue that speaks not only to the strength of our third line, but also to the weakness of our second line. Our third and second line having similar point production can be looked at as either a boon, cause for concern, or both. I think it's both. Hence why an upgrade on Kuzmenko in our top six could be a benefit. 

Edited January 19 by Coconuts

[Hairy Kneel]

Playoffs are going to be tough, hard fought tug of wars. Penalties will be different.  Hard checking will make skill guys play more peripheral.  Finesse guys will be pushed to the outside. More blocked shots will be needed. We'll need a extra battering ram to go to the crease. Guys like Kuz and Boes will be there to clean up the garbage goals. Guentzal is good but he's not going to increase our net front presence to a level we need. We need a skilled big forward, with jam.

[Malibu]

3 hours ago, Pears said:

How many players are on a 40 goal pace? How many contending teams trade those kinds of players?

Exactly. We may be the first, and the smartest. But why won't you answer the question? Would you trade Boeser for a DJ clone? I would and perhaps there is a GM out there dumb enough to do it for the exact reason you espouse. But as I said, this is a pipe dream for me because no GM would want to face the outrage of the majority of fans who are like you and can't see past the statistics.

[Hairy Kneel]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

And I'd argue that speaks not only to the strength of our third line, but also to the weakness of our second line. Our third and second line having similar point production can be looked at as either a boon, cause for concern, or both. I think it's both. Hence why an upgrade on Kuzmenko in our top six could be a benefit. 

Our second line sucks ass so bad. Mik is mia, Kuz is shell shocked and jumpy, passes to whoever.

[Coconuts]

Just now, Hairy Kneel said:

Our second line sucks ass so bad. Mik is mia, Kuz is shell shocked and jumpy, passes to whoever.

 

Our second line seems like the obvious weakness on this roster, which is why it's encouraging that the Canucks supposedly want to bolster their top six 

 

I do think it'll end up being a winger, and that Kuzmenko probably ends up being flipped as part of said deal

[Tusk]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

And I'd argue that speaks not only to the strength of our third line, but also to the weakness of our second line. Our third and second line having similar point production can be looked at as either a boon, cause for concern, or both. I think it's both. Hence why an upgrade on Kuzmenko in our top six could be a benefit. 

how does PA get an upgrade with no cap space? And who wants Kuzy more than the canucks fans and the Canucks players? We have the patience even if Tocchet doesnt.

[Bobby Lou]

8 minutes ago, KingRaj91 said:

Yeah true. I guess my main point is, if you're going to throw tier-A prospects at Guentzel, I'd add a bit more and get a bonafide youngish 2C. Horvat went for a pick, a top 9 forward and a tier-B prospect, I'm sure we can get a young 2C for somewhat of a similar package.

I doubt it. Horvat was already aged 28 at the time of his trade. Every team in the league knew we had very limited cap and could only afford to keep one of J.T and Horvat.

 

It was also known that contract negotiations weren't going well and had broken down.

 

Horvat in no way would be a simular return to a younger player with a simular stat line.

 

Alvin really did a great job with that considering the situation he was placed in.... Just my 2 cents...

[Tusk]

5 minutes ago, Malibu said:

Exactly. We may be the first, and the smartest. But why won't you answer the question? Would you trade Boeser for a DJ clone? I would and perhaps there is a GM out there dumb enough to do it for the exact reason you espouse. But as I said, this is a pipe dream for me because no GM would want to face the outrage of the majority of fans who are like you and can't see past the statistics.

Who are you and why are you trying to pry BB06 away from us.... f*ck off man. We aint selling a guy just starting to mature into a JT but actually smiles laughs and has great hair.

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

how does PA get an upgrade with no cap space? And who wants Kuzy more than the canucks fans and the Canucks players? We have the patience even if Tocchet doesnt.

 

That's the tricky part, it'll have to be a cap in/cap out move which means it'd require moving a larger cap hit. Likely one of Garland, Kuzmenko, or maybe even Mikheyev. 

 

It's what Tochett thinks that matters though, what him and management think, not so much what the fans think. I don't necessarily think it'll be an easy trade to make, but I could see Kuzmenko being open to a fresh start somewhere else, he's going to want to get another contract after this one so it makes sense for him to try and rebuild his value. And I do think his value has taken a hit this season. 

 

He'll be 30 when his deal is up, seems likely he'll want to stay in this league as opposed to going back to the KHL. Kuz does have a 12-team NTC though, so it's not as if he can just be traded anywhere. 

Edited January 19 by Coconuts

[Rip The Mesh]

My apologies! I'm getting images like these popping into my head today. What does it mean ?

 

            

[Rekker]

2 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

 

That's his boss, smart commnets, lol.

[Jaimito]

Kuz likely out tomorrow 

 

 

 

[Malibu]

2 minutes ago, Tusk said:

Who are you and why are you trying to pry BB06 away from us.... f*ck off man. We aint selling a guy just starting to mature into a JT but actually smiles laughs and has great hair.

A Canuck fan for 54 years. Players come and go, I'm only intersted in WINNING the cup. Players that can survive a cup run are the ones I want. I don't see BB as a player designed for that, so now is the time to dump him of course. As they say on the stock market, when the ducks are quacking, feed them.    But I acknowledge there probably isn't much worthwhile interest in him, but if we could get another DJ, wouldn't that be nice!