SilentSam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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King Heffy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said: Trying to negotiate with Russia on this would be like trying to negotiate Mike Tyson in his prime into agreeing to a draw after a first round that you lost. He's going to knock your ass out! Do most wars end in negotiation? Generally, yes, but only when you can trust that the aggressor is negotiating in good faith and not just for he opportunity to resupply themselves before they start fighting again. Not sure how old you are or how much you have studied the start of WW2, but Putin is following a really old and established format that Hitler did. Leading up to WW2, Hitler kept annexing pieces of land. In 1938, he threatened wider war if Europe did not concede his annexation of Sudetenland. They did this in exchange for a pledge of peace from Hitler which he violated in March 1939 with grabbing Czechoslovakia. He kept this up right up to when he annexed Poland and started the war. Does any of this sound familiar? Why did Hitler want these lands? He needed resources to build a broader military in order to conquer the rest of Europe. That brings us back to Putin, he won't stop unless Ukraine concedes the territories they have annexed, Crimea (Shipping routes and other resources) Ukraine in general is second for gas reserves and is rich in oil production, specifically in the regions that Putin claims to have annexed on behalf of Russia. Donbas region has an estimated 60 billion tonnes of coal. If Russia controls 90% of energy production in Europe, then Russia controls the ability to annex Europe by force! There is no reason that Russia needs to annex Ukraine except in the interest of creating dominance within Europe and ultimately, conquest. So, if you want to negotiate with Russia, Putin will NOT withdraw, he will insist that the world respect his annexation of Donbas region and Crimea and 5 years from now, once he has put all those resources to use rebuilding the army, you will fight Russia all across Europe and in all other regions they (Putin) wish to own. The world stops him here and now or sacrifices MILLIONS, possibly billions of lives in the very near future. History always repeats itself as far as dictators go, and we're witnessing it repeating itself right now. We either learn from history or we repeat it with another World War, this one likely a nuclear one. Putin also didn't start with Ukraine. We've already seen it with Georgia, Chechnya, ect. Ukraine is simply where the West has collectively decided to do something about. I think it's painfully obvious that you're correct. It took the US being directly attacked for them to enter the war; even still, they only declared war on Japan. Isolationism makes everything worse in the long run. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 14 hours ago, RomanPer said: Thank you, bud. But lately my fuse is really short for the type of trolling that's happening here. This guy is the same ilk as the fellow over on the Hamas page. Russians are getting desperate to change the narrative they are experience in Ukraine. As usual talk is cheap. Talk enough, for long enough and you might gain some shaky cred in the cheap seats. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 hours ago, 5forFighting said: The back channels of conversation better be happening to try to figure this out before it goes nuclear and we all get sucked in. My concern is that both sides have so far been *completely* unwavering in their outward positions. Ukraine has refused to negotiate while Russia is on their land, and the Americans and Western Europe aren't asking or encouraging them to do so. This means the only way they are likely to give up is if they run out of either equipment or manpower, or Zelensky is ousted in some manner and a less patriotic leader put in his place. Putin, on the other hand, keeps throwing his men into the fire and cannot simply abandon his annexation now or he would lose power and might well be executed. He seems positioned to try to win at any cost, and if Ukraine keeps getting aid while Russia's equipment continues to get depleted further, winning conventionally may not even be possible. A week ago Forbes released an article claiming that out of the 2987 tanks they started with, "independent" analysts have confirmed that Russia has lost at least 2619 of them. If true, that means they got down to less than 15% of the tanks they started with. Now, the war has been going on for a couple of years now, and Russia has either produced or put back into service more tanks, but they simply cannot keep up with the loss rate. So, all things equal, and if this information is true, lack of equipment may make their ground assault capability ineffective by around Summer of next year. (Yes, this is a complete estimation of my own) When that happens, Putin will be faced with one hell of a decision. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Boudrias Posted January 17 Popular Post Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Reznor said: My concern is that both sides have so far been *completely* unwavering in their outward positions. Ukraine has refused to negotiate while Russia is on their land, and the Americans and Western Europe aren't asking or encouraging them to do so. This means the only way they are likely to give up is if they run out of either equipment or manpower, or Zelensky is ousted in some manner and a less patriotic leader put in his place. Putin, on the other hand, keeps throwing his men into the fire and cannot simply abandon his annexation now or he would lose power and might well be executed. He seems positioned to try to win at any cost, and if Ukraine keeps getting aid while Russia's equipment continues to get depleted further, winning conventionally may not even be possible. A week ago Forbes released an article claiming that out of the 2987 tanks they started with, "independent" analysts have confirmed that Russia has lost at least 2619 of them. If true, that means they got down to less than 15% of the tanks they started with. Now, the war has been going on for a couple of years now, and Russia has either produced or put back into service more tanks, but they simply cannot keep up with the loss rate. So, all things equal, and if this information is true, lack of equipment may make their ground assault capability ineffective by around Summer of next year. (Yes, this is a complete estimation of my own) When that happens, Putin will be faced with one hell of a decision. The face of modern warfare is changing rapidly. Technology is destroying billions of $'s with $10,000 tools. The AFU have adapted very quickly and have held the early advantage. The Russians are slowly adjusting. Even if they see the world thru a controlled media the Russian people must see what is happening. Can Putin survive for another year? Does the AFU get enough weapons to conduct an offensive by summer? NATO supporters have been rationing supplies and access to top level equipment. That cost Ukrainian lives. People dwell on the failure of the Ukrainian offensive last year. What they should consider is how many men and equipment the Red Army have lost with their counteroffensive. If this is any demonstration of the future how can Russian generals ever think they can conquer all of Ukraine? They cannot. Logistics win wars. As time marches on Ukraine gets stronger. Equipment manufacture grows and expands in NATO. If Trump is elected we don't know where the Americans will end up. With a full borne Euro support for Ukraine I doubt Trump would abandon Ukraine. Give Ukraine access to the $300 billion of Russian assets held in the West and finances become secondary. NATO has to step it up and create boundaries that have repercussions if Russia crosses them. NATO has to set a graduated timeline for Russia to pull out of Ukraine. For each timeline date NATO must react. 1) send non military logistics experts inside Ukraine. 2) send medical aid teams inside Ukraine 3) relieve Ukraine of logistics transport by using NATO troops 4) Supply AFU with top level air support that prevents further Russian aerial attacks 5) Mass significant troops on the borders of Belarus and Russia 6) Set a date for Ukrainian admission into Nato and the EU. 6) If all of this does not result in Russia pulling out of all of Ukraine then a date for NATO combat troops to enter Ukraine. 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 UKraine set a trap for one of those A50’s RuZ got brave and stuipid flying blind. The Russian aircraft #A50 was shot down thanks to a complex missile trap, Forbes reported, citing military analyst Tom Cooper According to analyst, Ukrainian Su-24 bombers first struck #Crimea, disabling several radars and thus suppressing Russian ground radar coverage. Subsequently, Russian commanders ordered the A-50 to move further north to expand radar coverage over most of Crimea. Along with it was the airborne command post #Il22. The A-50 moved on a northern trajectory over #Berdiansk, within reach of the Patriot system. Likely, the Armed Forces of Ukraine used a combination of the Patriot and S-300 systems, activating the S-300 radar briefly to gather target data discreetly. Afterward, they launched missile attacks, downing the A-50 and damaging the Il-22 airborne command post. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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VegasCanuck Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 13 hours ago, SilentSam said: Let's start a GoFundMe campaign, buy one for Ukraine and write on it, To Vladimir, hugs and kisses from the rest of the world... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: This is what needs to happen, the Russian people need to stand up and say, ENOUGH! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Not related but I didn't want to create another thread... A different time. About a different war. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/16/exp-u-s-bradley-vehicles-ukraine-pleitgen-pkg-011602pseg1-cnni-world.cnn Johnson is Politically Sabotaging the Funds destined for UKraine right now.. they can easily come up with Border solutions in the US.. Just send UKraine what it needs asap .. it’s the perfect time to take Crimea swiftly, that will put massive weight on Putin 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Hungary is ready to unblock financing for Ukraine for 50 billion, — Politico The publication notes that tomorrow's review of the resolution on depriving Hungary of its right to vote in the EU Council was the impetus for this. P.S. Will western politicians now understand that these would-be dictators only respond to pressure? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Small wins my give rise to big gains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 This certainly looks like a side you'd love to negotiate with. https://censor.net/en/news/3468226/ukraines_existence_will_be_pretext_for_russias_attack_in_10_and_50_years_medvedev 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete13 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 27 minutes ago, DSVII said: This certainly looks like a side you'd love to negotiate with. https://censor.net/en/news/3468226/ukraines_existence_will_be_pretext_for_russias_attack_in_10_and_50_years_medvedev Something for @5for lookin so good to consider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 22 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: This political hot potato is really pissing me off!!! Get them what has been paid for already, not today, yesterday!! Proud our govt is leading the way in this regard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 10 minutes ago, PistolPete13 said: Something for @5for lookin so good to consider. Negotiations only work when both sides have honorable intentions. That won't happen as long as Putin is in charge. I'm not sure that the collapses of Russia would be good for the world, it would raise too many questions about it's nuclear arsenal, but Putin needs to go and be replaced by someone moderate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Kind of related : the odd time I’ll post other strikes, missions ,or Ops from other areas.. only because Terrorism is funded and sssisted by RuZ to create global instability. this is only a headline from 1hr ago.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 T90’s seem to be as agile as T50’s .. a waste of iron … hopefully UKraine melts all those down and builds a Naval Fleet Bigger than Putins .. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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