The Russia/Ukraine War Thread

[I.Am.Ironman]

@WHL rocks What is the motive for Ukraine to carry out of this attack? What do they gain?

 

Simple question that you haven't answered.

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

I watched this interview with CIA agent a whike back..  He said anyone can parrot their opinions and defend their position with energy and vigor . But intelligence agents know smart people are those who can talk about a subject without being emotionally involved. And can look at things from other people's or countries perspective.. 

 

Like I said I don't have a horse in the game. I don't care who's right or wrong. Who's the good guy or the bad guy. I enjoy geo politics as a hobbie. 

 

None of you guys ever heard of ISIS K or know where Khorasan is on a map before I mentioned it..

 

None of you know Iran bombed a senior ISIS K and Mossad meeting last month in Kurdistan at a Mossad safe house just steps from CIA post... killing very senior members involved in the terror attack in Tehran a month prior. 

 

None of you can name any proxies from any country besides Hamas.

 

Honestly if any of you had genuine interest you would ask questions that would help you gain knowledge.  But sometimes facts are too bitter to sallow and require too much energy and time to learn. 

 

But you call me names. Lol. Good job. You guys are so smart. Back to CNN for you guys. 

 

This is like being in a kindergarten trying to talk about adult topics. Beyond the capacity of pupils tcomprehendnd. My fault. 

 

See you guys in another thread. 

 

 

 

“Reading conspiracy theory sources” <> “Knowing the facts”. Some of the things you wrote here are beyond laughable but by all means, continue indulging in your thoughts of self-importance.

[WHL rocks]

DL

Edited April 8 by WHL rocks

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Why is everyone on here saying ISIS did this attack.

 

The shooters are all in custody. They are all Tajikistani and were hired by Ukraine intelligence. This has nothing to do with ISIS. This is a Ukranian intelligence attack. 

 

 

Ukraine has not been attacking Russian civilians from the start.  Which has been about credibility to gain support for international aid; military and otherwise.

 

Isis claimed the attack is the first answer.  Why? Who knows; but it relates to Eastern Syria & Northern Iraq.

 

Western allies including 5 eyes all had intelligence regarding who was going to do this & why.  They do not suspect Ukraine in any reports I have read. Feel free to provide a source? Hopefully better than Tucker Carlson.Ukrainian backed rebels against Putin are staking military positions in Belgorod & along the common Russian / Ukrainian border.  Ukrainian special forces have been attacking fuel and oil plants, supply line railroads, weapons manufacturers, intelligence offices, air bases, Russian ships in the Black Sea. Not civilian targets at concert halls.

 

You live in Edmonton by recollection?  Visit this memorial.   Its inbetween the Art Gallery & City Square on 100th at 103rd ave. Putin also referenced Stalin's efforts in the 1930's as rationale for his attack in Feb 2022. Russia has been claiming Ukrainian territory, suppressing & killing it's population for centuries. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

 

Mali Niger Chad Burkina Faso  ++  Russians have been "liberating" them

 

Niger had an elected government overthrown in a Coup headed by a militant Islamic group. Last year in summer.

 

Mali has suspended recent elections to reform a democratically formed administration.

 

Burkina Faso has been in civil war.

 

Did I mention CAR? Sudan, Somalia...

 

Go south to Rhodesia?

 

A common theme is Wagner but more specifically groups like Hamas, central African style . Islamic Jihadist regimes & rebel  gangs who have leaders that become billionaires. More so than that they were former French colonies. They get paid by militant groups to help secure control. Are supplied weapons from Russia.  Wagner gets a cut of mining, oil & other resources, tax free. Also for union busting. 

 

You can call that liberating I guess?

 

 

[WHL rocks]

DL

Edited April 8 by WHL rocks

[WHL rocks]

DL

Edited April 8 by WHL rocks

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

You are confusing ISIS K with ISIS in the Arabian Peninsula.  Completely different outfits and exactly the point of my whole argument.  ISIS K is not that ISIS.  

 

Maybe (?) this is is what we are confusing.  This is a quote by Charles de Gaulle;

 

 

You wont get much change in answers to this question posed to either group? I quoted answers in Eastern Syria & Northern Iraq. Not Afghanistan.  I could be wrong. I am an amateur in these Geo Political conflicts. Its my understanding ISIS itself commonly found itself in conflicts with Russian & US backed groups. K, an affiliated group with ISIS originally split on sectarian lines.

 

ISIS K, small by comparison. Has previously terror attacked the Russian embassy in Kabul 2 years ago. Claimed responsibility anyway! Committed to its own sovereignty in Afghanistan for its ethnic identified group.  Caught in power struggles with the Taliban in spite of the heaviest interjections of the US & Russia. 

 

My point is, even if you accept claims of responsibility?  The credibility as to who hired them is poor! Such militant groups are alarmingly consistent in forging themselves as isolated ethnically specific groups. Starting in larger alliances, breaking off when they have weapons & recruits to rule territories on their own. Specifically they hate & don't trust any group but their own blood! They have made false claims of attacks in the past. 

 

Nothing better than having notoriety as someone you never fuck with? To help drive fear and compel submission in your own arena. 

 

A messaging app was how these ISIS K guys were recruited by Ukraine? Fleeing in a car to the border untabbed after such an attack?  Gimme a break! A group with whom they have no historical alliance???

 

The FSU has killed Russian Generals, submarine commanders, politicians and traitorous administrators in the Donbass; tried to kill Alexi Dugin? Putin's personal philosopher. All without a wisp in the wind!  This story is like a fart in an outhouse!

 

I do not believe it.

 

[Rook]

14 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Why is everyone on here saying ISIS did this attack.

 

The shooters are all in custody. They are all Tajikistani and were hired by Ukraine intelligence. This has nothing to do with ISIS. This is a Ukranian intelligence attack. 

 

Lol how cute, someone who thinks they are smarter than everyone else go troll elsewhere. 

[Rook]

6 hours ago, RomanPer said:

“Reading conspiracy theory sources” <> “Knowing the facts”. Some of the things you wrote here are beyond laughable but by all means, continue indulging in your thoughts of self-importance.

The fact she believed none of us have heard of Isis K or Khorasan ruined what little credibility this poster would have had! There’s always one after popping in here with their smarmy attitude after something like this happens. 

[Rook]

12 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Have a good day..

 

I understand.  It's too much information and it would take years of having interest in the subject and stydying it to get a grasp.

 

I don't blame you.  

 

Unfortunately for me when i was young I lived in a part of the world where these things were everyday reality and terror attacks were common and part of life. 

 

The average person even uneducated had more knowledge on this subject than the talking heads on our TVs where we get our news from. It was a part of life. So my interest in this subject has been constant for almost 50 years. 

It took you 50 years to become this naive?  

[StrayDog]

8 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

I watched this interview with CIA agent a whike back..  He said anyone can parrot their opinions and defend their position with energy and vigor . But intelligence agents know smart people are those who can talk about a subject without being emotionally involved. And can look at things from other people's or countries perspective.. 

 

Like I said I don't have a horse in the game. I don't care who's right or wrong. Who's the good guy or the bad guy. I enjoy geo politics as a hobbie. 

 

None of you guys ever heard of ISIS K or know where Khorasan is on a map before I mentioned it..

 

None of you know Iran bombed a senior ISIS and Mossad meeting last month in Kurdistan at a Mossad safe house just steps from CIA post... killing very senior members involved in the terror attack in Tehran a month prior. 

 

None of you can name any proxies from any country besides Hamas.

 

Honestly if any of you had genuine interest you would ask questions that would help you gain knowledge.  But sometimes facts are too bitter to sallow and require too much energy and time to learn. 

 

But you call me names. Lol. Good job. You guys are so smart. Back to CNN for you guys. 

 

This is like being in a kindergarten trying to talk about adult topics. Beyond the capacity of pupils tcomprehendnd. My fault. 

 

See you guys in another thread. 

 

 

 

I'd like to thank you for telling me what I don't know, and what my interests are (while making a kindergarten analogy). It makes it easier to dismiss you and your arguments.

 

[SilentSam]

Storm Shadows at work :

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

 

[SilentSam]

 

 

[SilentSam]

To add to the Concert Hall reports: 

 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

 

 

[SilentSam]

More Big News:

 

 

[SilentSam]

On  another issue :

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PistolPete13]

15 hours ago, 112 said:

ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack in short order. The U.S. provided an intelligence warning to Russia both on March 7 and a few days prior to the attack (standard to do regardless of whether the target country is an adversary). They set warnings out to their citizens in Moscow to stay away from concert halls. And the U.S. has said that the attack was coordinated and undertaken by ISIS. Meanwhile, Ukraine has been careful not to hit civilian targets for the entirety of the war. Their drone attacks are limited to oil refineries and it would do them no favours internationally to kill 150 people trying to enjoy their evenings at a concert hall. I think the conspiracy theory is a mistake.

 

e: regardless, Putin is going to spin this against Ukraine.

Putin has done this sort of thing before.

Readkova, a Russian telegram channel, appointed with the task of pointing the finger at Ukraine. Not many are fooled by this atrocity. 

[SilentSam]

The Sum of the Shadow Strikes :

 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

Just an FYI ,  possible NATO movement:

 

 

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

7 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Spoiler

Hopefully this is a genuine question without disparaging me because you don't like certain truths. 

 

One can also ask the question what does Ukraine have to lose at this point. They need to do something to change the course of war..  They're at a point where they're losing badly. They're losing ground all across the 1000km + wide front line.  Russian army is headed to the Dnieper river and there's not much to stop them unless some drastic event happens to help them. 

 

I think the world of politics is a dirty, mean, evil, place. There are no good guys or bad guys in this space. There are interests. Countries have interests and that's how decisions are carried out..

 

As to your question I did try answer it at length in an earlier post. But it's very difficult to know exactly who what why etc.

 

But when ISIS K immediately takes responsibility from my knowledge of geo politics I know its a foreign intelligence agency attack. When you know who they are and at who's behest they have been doing terrorist attacks its clear they took responsibility on cue.

 

.. 99.99% of people in the west have never heard of ISIS K or any of the other ISIS outfits from North Africa to Pakistan. They immediately think of ISIS as the original terror outfit we all saw on our TVs beheading people and trying to take over Syria and Iraq. 

 

I'm assuming in Ukraine you're talking about the leadership of UKR.  

I don't think Zelenski or Syrskyi ordered this. Syrskyi is the guy who took over from Zaluhnyi as the commander in cheif of armed forces last month..

 

I think this is at the intelligence agency level. And it's impossible for us to know the exact reason. 

 

It could very well be a big provocation seeking massive response from Russia with mass mobilization and full scale offensive attack on Ukraine. This in turn would bring NATO forces into western Ukraine all the way upto the Dnieper river... That in turn frees up 100s of thousands UKR troops to leave western UKR and the border with Belarus to mobilize on the eastern front where the war is.. NATO forces entering western Ukraine changes the whole equation..

 

Right now Russia is gaining ground everyday. They took Avdivka last month which was the most fortified city in Europe prior to last month. This was a huge loss for UKR. Now the Ukraine forces are struggling badly. 

 

Ukraine needs something big to happen to be able to keep fighting. They desperately need help in any way or form. NATO troops entering Ukraine would change the dynamic of the war. 

 

This could also have Mossad involved to help GRU to carry it out..They have links with ISIS . This is not a secret. Just last month a Mossad meeting with senior ISIS  leaders was attacked by Iranian missiles in iraqi Kurdistan in revenge for the terror attack in Tehran the month prior. Mossad agents and a senior ISIS  leader were liquidated. Israel knows Russia had a hand via iran in the Oct 7 attack by Hamas. They want revenge for that and if history tells us something it's that Israel always takes revenge.

 

Russia is in a massive proxy war with France in Western Africa.  France is losing their colonies in the Sahel region. They are literally losing their colonies on which their wealth is dependant. The CFA Franc has added 100s of bilions into french coffers on the backs of these poorest of countries in the world..

 

Mali Niger Chad Burkina Faso  ++  Russians have been "liberating" them. There are massive amounts of natural resources that the French exploited for decades but they're losing these colonies to Russia. ISIS GS and and several factions of AL Quaeda  now known as JNIM  is very active in the region. 

 

The French have specialists in Ukraine. They want to send in NATO troops to defeat Russia.. last month a building housing 80 French specialists masquerading as mercenaries were bombed in Ukraine. 60 were killed 20 injured by Russia. Maybe France is involved in helping the GRU with this operation.

 

With these type of things it's so complicated we'll never know the full story..

 

Even if Russia does find out at the end of the day it's most likely they'll drop it as an ISIS attack because when you start untangling the web a lot of problems appear that are best left secret to avoid direct wars. 

 

Personally I find the Russia vs France proxy war in the Sahel region way more interesting than the Ukraine war. It's hard not to root for these super poor countries trying to get out from French colonialism. 

 

Back to this attack mostly terror attacks on this scale carried out by one nation against another are meant to shake confidence in the government to devastate the economy as ppl stop going out and to cause terror in a population and to make a country look weak on the world stage for not being able to protect its citizens. So this could also be the reason. 

 

Someone keeps saying why would they kill civilians like this when they could do it another way and they haven't done it in the past.. they think the goal is just to kill people. Thats so simple minded i didn't respond. 

 

For one this has deniabilty built in. Second terror attacks are meant for all the reasons listed above. Civilian deaths are just collateral damage. The goal is to cause terror in the whole country not to specifically just kill citizens. This type of attack has a completely different affect on a population.  We all remember how 9/11 or 26/11 affected people emotionally.  That's the goal of an attacks like this..

 

The 26/11 attack on Mumbai was done by Lashkar e Taiba. Or better known as LeT. It's a terror outfit controlled by Pakistan's ISI.

 

An ISI agent with rank of colonel was in charge of the group that carried out the attack. The terrorists phone calls to Pakistan were all recorded by Indian intelligence.  The terrorists  were given directions on the phone during the attack..now the question is did Pakistan order the attack? Did Pakistan's PM or Chief of Defense Staff order this attack? No. They didn't know it was going to happen. This ISI colonel knew and organized and helped carry it out. 

 

That's how countries do these attacks. The intelligence agency decides what when where why. 

 

Just to add the goal of an intelligence agency can be different from that of politicians. GRU would not care less iif Russia responded by taking out Zelenski for this attack. Another leader will step in and take over. Their goal is much bigger which in this case could be for Putin to over react and that helps bring NATO army into Ukraine. 

 

Zelenski is expendable and they'd be willing to make him a martyr and build a statue of him if it saves UKR by bringing in NATO.

 

So with this attack Russia is weakened. Their economy will suffer. The populace will be on edge and have less faith in Putin. If this attack leads to an over reaction by Putin NATO comes into Ukraine which is definitely not good for Russia. Only Ukraine wins in that scenario as neither NATO nor Russia want to be in a position where they are in a direct war against each other.. 

 

You might say NATO is already in Ukraine and that is true but that's only in an advisory role and to help direct high value missions and to operate high tech equipment which Ukrainian soldiers are not capable of operating.. so only NATO specialists and special forces are in Ukraine helping fight this war..

 

But if GRU can get 10s of thousands of mobilized NATO soldiers to roll into Ukraine in tanks they accomplish a far bigger goal.. 

 

They have nothing to lose at this point. It's only a matter of time Russia is on the Dnieper unless something big happens and this might be the way to make that something big actually happen. 

 

Normally I would also suspect Putin and FSB of a white flag attack. BUT in that case ISIS K would not be taking credit. They're not a Russian controlled outfit. There an outfit controlled by Russia's enemies. 

 

 

 

 

 

Put it in spoilers for space. Ok I read all of that. The France/Africa stuff may or may not be true, I don't know enough to comment, but I still don't see Ukraine (military or intelligence) actively taking a role in that attack. "What do they have to lose" is a poor argument. They have pretty much everything to lose in the way of international support. If they lose that then they are cooked. There is literally zero strategic benefit.

 

There is no doubt they want NATO entering the war but to go all in on a move like this, in order to coax Putin into an escalation, which will then coax NATO into joining, is far fetched, imo.

[SilentSam]

An interesting opinion:

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

Interesting that in less than 48 hrs a song is written by a popular RuZ entertainer,

… about mobilizing a RuZ Army.   ??