The Russia/Ukraine War Thread

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

So you are ok with some one else giving up their garage, bedroom kitchen and bathroom; for a perception of peace, but refuse to say if you would give up YOUR property?

Again I mention the 'perception' of peace, as Ukraine had Crimea taken from it, and that did not lead to peace.

Can't get an answer about the 'property' issue; and I haven't even mentioned that:

When Russia took over the bathroom, they found a young lad in there. Don't worry, he's fine; in fact they sent him to live in Russia

This is for the best as they can train him to become a soldier, and he will help them take over the rest of the house.

There are rumours that a girl was found in one of the bedrooms, but nothing confirmed, as the  troops won't say anything.

Might have something to do with that unmarked grave in the new back yard, might not.

 

Meh- small price for  short term peace, amirite?

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, BlockerHigh said:

I will continue to assert peace is needed and here’s more reason why 

 

https://x.com/ggreenwald/status/1707407039448731684?s=46

I don't think anyone is debating that peace is needed, but Putin is following a eerily familiar path to what Hitler did in the last half of the 1930's. He keeps pushing and taking a little more land and a little more land, justifying it through whatever means necessary and counting on the apathy of the world to let him keep doing so and to continue building his military capabilities. All of his land grabs were largely resource and strategic related. Putin grabbed Crimea because of the access and advantage it would give Russia in the Black Sea, as well as additional oil resources, building Russia's monopoly on oil supply in Europe and building further reliance on Russia for European on energy supply. He was counting that they would continue to let him do what he wanted to his neighbors and not push back as happened with Crimea.

 

When he took Crimea, Ukraine and the rest of NATO were not ready to actively oppose him. Obama implemented sanctions against Russia, but other NATO countries didn't follow suit. When Trump came into office, removing all sanctions on Russia was one of his first orders of business. As was reported by a defected KGB agent, Trump has been cultivated for more than 40 years to be a Russian Asset, I'm not prone to conspiracy theories, but I firmly believe that Melania is his handler and that is the only reason that she is still with him. It fits! But, I digress, back to Ukraine and Russia.

 

If Ukraine agrees to a cease fire that does not involve the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from ALL lands that are considered Ukrainian under International law, then Russia will simply re-organize and this will carry on a LOT longer than it will if NATO and the rest of the world just stay on it now. Give Ukraine whatever they need to win, as long as they agree not to use the weapons on any Russian targets within the recognized boundaries of Russia. This has to end with Russia's complete withdrawal of Ukraine, anything else would be unacceptable. If we don't, they will continue to "create breathing room" on the rest of the world, just as Hitler tried to use as his justification.

 

There will always be people who see this differently, but every time in history that the world has appeased a dictator of these capabilities, its resulted in a much broader conflict.

 

Stay the course!

 

 

[BlockerHigh]

3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I don't think anyone is debating that peace is needed, but Putin is following a eerily familiar path to what Hitler did in the last half of the 1930's. He keeps pushing and taking a little more land and a little more land, justifying it through whatever means necessary and counting on the apathy of the world to let him keep doing so and to continue building his military capabilities. All of his land grabs were largely resource and strategic related. Putin grabbed Crimea because of the access and advantage it would give Russia in the Black Sea, as well as additional oil resources, building Russia's monopoly on oil supply in Europe and building further reliance on Russia for European on energy supply. He was counting that they would continue to let him do what he wanted to his neighbors and not push back as happened with Crimea.

 

When he took Crimea, Ukraine and the rest of NATO were not ready to actively oppose him. Obama implemented sanctions against Russia, but other NATO countries didn't follow suit. When Trump came into office, removing all sanctions on Russia was one of his first orders of business. As was reported by a defected KGB agent, Trump has been cultivated for more than 40 years to be a Russian Asset, I'm not prone to conspiracy theories, but I firmly believe that Melania is his handler and that is the only reason that she is still with him. It fits! But, I digress, back to Ukraine and Russia.

 

If Ukraine agrees to a cease fire that does not involve the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from ALL lands that are considered Ukrainian under International law, then Russia will simply re-organize and this will carry on a LOT longer than it will if NATO and the rest of the world just stay on it now. Give Ukraine whatever they need to win, as long as they agree not to use the weapons on any Russian targets within the recognized boundaries of Russia. This has to end with Russia's complete withdrawal of Ukraine, anything else would be unacceptable. If we don't, they will continue to "create breathing room" on the rest of the world, just as Hitler tried to use as his justification.

 

There will always be people who see this differently, but every time in history that the world has appeased a dictator of these capabilities, its resulted in a much broader conflict.

 

Stay the course!

 

 

When the media calls someone hitler I discount it 

 

Saddam was Hitler with WMD’s

Trump is Hitler

Putin is Hitler

 

everyone who the military Industrial Complex hates is hitler. Hard to take it seriously 

 

I appreciate putin is a bad man, but it doesn’t make him hitler and such comparisons are actually an insult to my community.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by BlockerHigh

[Salacious Crumb]

1 minute ago, BlockerHigh said:

When the media calls someone hitler I discount it 

 

Saddam was Hitler with WMD’s

Trump is Hitler

Putin is Hitler

 

i appreciate putin is a bad man, but it doesn’t make him hitler and such comparisons are actually an insult to my community 

 

 

What is your community?

[BlockerHigh]

Just now, Salacious Crumb said:

What is your community?

I’m 1/2 Jewish (father and don’t practice but it’s still part of my history and my father’s), 1/2 Canadian. Should have been self explanatory. 

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, BlockerHigh said:

What would the USA do if China wanted missiles and bio research plants on the border of Texas/Mexico? I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis...The USA has shown how they would react.

 

Again, I am not supportive of Putin but you have to also consider actions and reactions. Life is not so simple as good guy bad guy. I am referring to the encroachment of NATO and the Minsk accords. As for the bio labs, no it is not conspiracy as MSM propaganda suggests. Victoria Nuland, the Under Secretary of State for the USA admitted it in a House Overview Hearing under oath (you can google it). So when you make an agreement with Russian not to encroach further, but do, then biolabs pop up....what do we expect?

According to RFK, an agreement was signed, Putin was pulling troops back in good faith, satellites showed this, and the USA and UK told Zelensky not to sign it. Is that true? Not sure, but I doubt RFK would say something that people "in the know" could easily verify.

 

Finally, I'm not suggesting this about you, but I see alot of emotional responses here, not discussing the points I made above that RFK mentioned (Minsk etc). I appreciate this is emotional for some (perhaps the people being emotional are Ukrainian), but it doesn't change the issues.

 

IMHO the only way to stop a war is a negotiation. Negotiations that WORK only work when both sides accept the reality that neither will get what they want. Believing groups will just give back territory in a war, is beyond naive, so pragmatists need to understand what you have to work with and negotiate from there. Expecting things to go back to how they were, won't solve anything and will only perpetuate the problem and create more death.

 

I don't want to see endless deaths and some of the arguments here don't seem to care about that. Because the reality is, you can say "Well putin can leave" but the REALITY is he won't. So what's the outcome? More death. Utopian expectations do not solve the problem. Reality and pragmatism do.

Putin will use any excuse necessary to justify his invasion. He doesn't want to have NATO as a neighbor, but if he conquers the Ukraine, that's exactly what he will have. It's an excuse, nothing more, nothing less. He has been putting operatives into Ukraine for years and other countries as well, trying to destabilize regions so that he can take them over. His operatives were the ones who accidentally shot down a passenger plane over the Ukraine. 

 

There was ZERO reason to take Crimea other than conquest.

There was ZERO reason to invade Ukraine as a "Special Military operation"

 

There will be ZERO reason to invade Georgia or any other neighboring country in future if he's left with the capability to do so.

 

No one wants war, but the choice was Russia's, NO ONE ELSES!

[VegasCanuck]

20 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

When the media calls someone hitler I discount it 

 

Saddam was Hitler with WMD’s

Trump is Hitler

Putin is Hitler

 

everyone who the military Industrial Complex hates is hitler. Hard to take it seriously 

 

I appreciate putin is a bad man, but it doesn’t make him hitler and such comparisons are actually an insult to my community.

 

 

 

 

Okay, so here's a question for you, How much have you read or studied Hitler's rise to power and the steps he took to achieve the position of Chancellor of Germany?

 

I'm not calling any of these guys Hitler, you're taking that as out of context as the media does on most situations. I'm saying that there was a pattern of conquest that Hitler followed and it was a REALLY GOOD ONE! It worked.

 

So, tell me without Googling it, what you know! I had a teacher in school who grew up in Nazi Germany and had memories of he and his brother and father having to ride on bikes, out of town and hide in the forest at times as troops would be sent into regions to round up a certain number of men and boys and execute them as a way to keep order anywhere they thought they were starting to lose control. I have researched Hitlers rise to power extensively, there are patterns that he followed and there are leaders in the world who are following the same pattern. Saddam was NOT one of them, his objectives were smaller and more contained.

 

Trump is DEFINITELY a student of Hitler

Putin is DEFINITELY a student of Hitler.

 

Hitler LOVED negotiation, same as Putin would love right now. There wasn't a peace treaty that Hitler wouldn't throw out as soon as it had outlived its usefulness to his objectives. He would take land, promise not to take more. Then he'd take more and promise, only this, this and nothing more. All the time, building military capabilities. The world started stepping in when he took Poland. We are on the same path right now if we negotiate without 100% withdrawal of all Russian forces. Give them time, they will solidify they position and re-arm themselves, just as happened with Crimea. 

 

While I respect your opinion and your right to an opinion, no one wants a war, no one approaches this wanting a long battle, but there is only one way to stop some leaders from continuing conquest. Putin started this, he has one objective, that's the Subjugation of Ukraine, for now. If we let it happen, we will be dealing with a stronger Russia in 5 years as they decide to subjugate another country.

 

Negotiation ONLY work if both sides are sincere in their intentions. Putin is NOT. He only wants time to re-arm.

Edited September 28, 2023 by VegasCanuck

[BlockerHigh]

31 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Okay, so here's a question for you, How much have you read or studied Hitler's rise to power and the steps he took to achieve the position of Chancellor of Germany?

 

I'm not calling any of these guys Hitler, you're taking that as out of context as the media does on most situations. I'm saying that there was a pattern of conquest that Hitler followed and it was a REALLY GOOD ONE! It worked.

 

So, tell me without Googling it, what you know! I had a teacher in school who grew up in Nazi Germany and had memories of he and his brother and father having to ride on bikes, out of town and hide in the forest at times as troops would be sent into regions to round up a certain number of men and boys and execute them as a way to keep order anywhere they thought they were starting to lose control. I have researched Hitlers rise to power extensively, there are patterns that he followed and there are leaders in the world who are following the same pattern. Saddam was NOT one of them, his objectives were smaller and more contained.

 

Trump is DEFINITELY a student of Hitler

Putin is DEFINITELY a student of Hitler.

 

Hitler LOVED negotiation, same as Putin would love right now. There wasn't a peace treaty that Hitler wouldn't throw out as soon as it had outlived its usefulness to his objectives. He would take land, promise not to take more. Then he'd take more and promise, only this, this and nothing more. All the time, building military capabilities. The world started stepping in when he took Poland. We are on the same path right now if we negotiate without 100% withdrawal of all Russian forces. Give them time, they will solidify they position and re-arm themselves, just as happened with Crimea. 

Ok now you’ve lost credibility with me

 

”Trump takes lessons from Hitler ” paraphrasing. We really need to move away from media driven hyperbole and deal with facts Vs emotions driven by dislike of a person. I will accept your dislike of Trump, what I can’t accept is something categorically false.

 

He was in power for 4 years. Please show my how he enacted fascist policy?

 

I see this comment often, I don’t think many even know what fascism is but rather want to use it as a slur.

Fascism is a form of authoritarianism, requiring strong central govt control, censorship/control of media, a lack of adherence to established rule of law, and the suppression of political opposition.

 

Trump is:

 

a constitutionalist- he wanted rule of law followed 

 

He relinquished more power to the states, lessening federal power. Power closer to the people. 

 

he wanted less regulation (again less federal govt interference)

 

He is pro free speech

 

His son is law is Jewish as is his grandchild. His son in law helped create one of the most important peace accords in the Middle East between Israel and a number of Muslim countries, the Abraham Accords. To me his is not Hitleresque, quite the contrary.  

 

Trump moved the American Embassy to Jerusalem to show his support for Israel

 

Biden on the other hand has been tramping the constitution (free speech, trying to extinguish student loans by fiat which he can’t legally, has send billions to Iran who has stated they want to remove Israel off the map, etc), and has consistently tried to aggregate more power at the federal level. He’s also worked with big tech to censor and weaponized his DOJ against political opponents. All of this is more fascist than anything Trump has done.

Anyways. It seems there’s a real bias on this site to views that come from the CNN’s of the world and until and unless people are open minded enough to seek out independent journalists, to educate themselves on information beyond what the CNN’s say, then consider it, a discussion from my perspective is pointless.
 

We have to honestly assess facts and not use emotional hyperbole to have honest, intellectual debates, and I am certainly not going to convince anyone to seek that info out, it’s something one has to get to on their own, through logic and questioning. 
 

But as I move back to hockey for good here’s an actual example for you re: biden and censorship/ fascism.

 

Cheers! 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/07/07/biden-barred-influencing-social-media-free-speech-win/70387141007/

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by BlockerHigh

[Rook]

3 hours ago, BlockerHigh said:

I will continue to assert peace is needed and here’s more reason why 

 

https://x.com/ggreenwald/status/1707407039448731684?s=46

You can continue to assert all you want.. but you are really starting to aggravate me!!!! EVERY UKRAINIAN WANTS PEACE, ALONG WITH ALL OF US THAT SUPPORT THEIR CAUSE!!  Until those piece of sh$& Orcs get out of Ukraine there can be no peace!! So zip it with your Commrade BS!! give your head a shake! Slava Ukraini!!

[Rook]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

So you are ok with some one else giving up their garage, bedroom kitchen and bathroom; for a perception of peace, but refuse to say if you would give up YOUR property?

Again I mention the 'perception' of peace, as Ukraine had Crimea taken from it, and that did not lead to peace.

This guys just a troll!! Needs to look down the barrel of a forum sniper!

 

2 hours ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Proof thats not proof, facts that arent facts. I miss the days when words actually meant what they say. There is no point in arguing with conspiracy theories, if someone else wants to ill let them take up the torch

Not gonna happen with these idiots who hide behind computer screens and are too dumb to resist being brainwashed.  

[King Heffy]

20 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

Ok now you’ve lost credibility with me

 

”Trump takes lessons from Hitler ” paraphrasing. We really need to move away from media driven hyperbole and deal with facts Vs emotions driven by dislike of a person. I will accept your dislike of Trump, what I can’t accept is something categorically false.

 

He was in power for 4 years. Please show my how he enacted fascist policy?

 

I see this comment often, I don’t think many even know what fascism is but rather want to use it as a slur.

Fascism is a form of authoritarianism, requiring strong central govt control, censorship/control of media, a lack of adherence to established rule of law, and the suppression of political opposition.

 

Trump is:

 

a constitutionalist- he wanted rule of law followed 

 

He relinquished more power to the states, lessening federal power. Power closer to the people. 

 

he wanted less regulation (again less federal govt interference)

 

He is pro free speech

 

His son is law is Jewish as is his grandchild. His son in law helped create one of the most important peace accords in the Middle East between Israel and a number of Muslim countries, the Abraham Accords. To me his is not Hitleresque, quite the contrary.  

 

Trump moved the American Embassy to Jerusalem to show his support for Israel

 

Biden on the other hand has been tramping the constitution (free speech, trying to extinguish student loans by fiat which he can’t legally, has send billions to Iran who has stated they want to remove Israel off the map, etc), and has consistently tried to aggregate more power at the federal level. He’s also worked with big tech to censor and weaponized his DOJ against political opponents. All of this is more fascist than anything Trump has done.

Anyways. It seems there’s a real bias on this site to views that come from the CNN’s of the world and until and unless people are open minded enough to seek out independent journalists, to educate themselves on information beyond what the CNN’s say, then consider it, a discussion from my perspective is pointless.
 

We have to honestly assess facts and not use emotional hyperbole to have honest, intellectual debates, and I am certainly not going to convince anyone to seek that info out, it’s something one has to get to on their own, through logic and questioning. 
 

But as I move back to hockey for good here’s an actual example for you re: biden and censorship/ fascism.

 

Cheers! 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/07/07/biden-barred-influencing-social-media-free-speech-win/70387141007/

 

 

 

Can we please keep the Trump apologist trash in the US politics thread?

Edited September 28, 2023 by King Heffy

[Rook]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

What is a biolab?

 

Biolabs are research facilities that study living organisms, with a particular focus on contagions. These labs are designed with special safety measures in place both to protect lab workers and to prevent the accidental release of pathogens into the surrounding environment. There are four biosafety levels, with varying layers of containment measures. Biolabs often come under criticism for their secretive nature, the potential risk they pose to the surrounding area, and their use of animals in research. 

What do we know about biolabs?

Historically, little information has been available about biolabs, though in recent years investigative reports and increased government transparency has allowed us to learn more.

Biolabs are used to study living organisms, particularly those that are contagious and pose a threat to human health. They were created in order to study naturally emerging viruses and microbes, as well as those that might be human-made and used for bioterrorism.

Because of the inherent danger in studying microbes that pose health hazards, the National Institutes for Health have delineated four different hazard levels of biolabs, with the highest – level 4 – having the most stringent precautions. For instance, a level 4 lab is kept continuously airtight, whereas a level 3 lab only needs to be airtight when it is being disinfected. Another distinction, for example, between Level 3 and Level 4 is that level 3 research involves agents that “cause diseases that may have serious or lethal consequences,” while level 4 labs use agents that “cause diseases that are usually life threatening.”

The key differences across the four levels can be summarized as follows: 

BSL-1 labs are used to study agents not known to consistently cause disease in healthy adults. They follow basic safety procedures and require no special equipment or design features.

BSL-2 labs are used to study moderate-risk agents that pose a danger if accidentally inhaled, swallowed, or exposed to the skin. Safety measures include the use of gloves and eyewear as well as handwashing sinks and waste decontamination facilities.

BSL-3 labs are used to study agents that can be transmitted through the air and cause potentially lethal infection. Researchers perform lab manipulations in a gas-tight enclosure. Other safety features include clothing decontamination, sealed windows, and specialized ventilation systems.

BSL-4 labs are used to study agents that pose a high risk of life-threatening disease for which no vaccine or therapy is available. Lab personnel are required to wear full-body, air-supplied suits and to shower when exiting the facility. The labs incorporate all BSL-3 features and occupy safe, isolated zones within a larger building. (NIH Source)

 

What is the truth of the biolab spoken of by Russian propagandists?

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/25/1087910880/biological-weapons-far-right-russia-ukraine

 

https://thebulletin.org/2022/07/russia-finds-another-stage-for-the-ukraine-biolabs-disinformation-show/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/29/truth-about-hunter-biden-ukrainian-bio-labs/

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/02/ukraine-biolabs-conspiracy-theory-qanon/

 

Since 2005, the U.S. has partnered with Ukraine through the Pentagon’s Biological Threat Reduction Program. The purpose is "to support peaceful and safe biological detection and diagnostic capabilities and to reduce the threats posed by pathogens," according to a March 2022 government fact sheet.

The Defense Department’s Cooperative Threat Reduction program "has provided technical support to the Ukrainian Ministry of Health since 2005 to improve public health laboratories, whose mission is analogous to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention," Weber said. 

Also known as the Nunn-Lugar program, the initiative began after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 as a project aimed at dismantling and securing leftover weapons of mass destruction programs in former Soviet countries.

The facilities in Ukraine

The Pentagon hasn’t said anything new about the 46 facilities — we reported about them in April. In fact, the June 9 release at the center of these claims specifically states that Ukraine "has no nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons programs."

With regard to the 46 facilities, the government fact sheet said the U.S. has:

"Worked collaboratively to improve Ukraine’s biological safety, security, and disease surveillance for both human and animal health, providing support to 46 peaceful Ukrainian laboratories, health facilities, and disease diagnostic sites over the last two decades. The collaborative programs have focused on improving public health and agricultural safety measures at the nexus of nonproliferation." 

In March, the Pentagon said much of the same, adding that the program has invested about $200 million in Ukraine, "supporting 46 laboratories, health facilities and diagnostic sites" and that it has "improved Ukraine’s biological safety, security and surveillance for both human and animal health." 

While the U.S. is providing support for Ukraine, the labs are owned and operated by the Ukrainian government, Robert Pope, director of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Department, previously told PolitiFact.

"Specifically, we make the labs more secure from accidental or intentional release, provide diagnostic equipment, train personnel on the use of the equipment, and train them how to detect potential outbreaks," Pope said. "DTRA not only does this with Ukraine, but also with partners in over 30 countries, at their request, to assist with safe disease detection and diagnosis." 

 

It appears as though the easily mislead continue to be easily mislead.  

God I love you, especially in these moments.. I lack the patience to deal with these “people”!!

[Warhippy]

21 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

Ok now you’ve lost credibility with me

 

”Trump takes lessons from Hitler ” paraphrasing. We really need to move away from media driven hyperbole and deal with facts Vs emotions driven by dislike of a person. I will accept your dislike of Trump, what I can’t accept is something categorically false.

 

He was in power for 4 years. Please show my how he enacted fascist policy?

 

I see this comment often, I don’t think many even know what fascism is but rather want to use it as a slur.

Fascism is a form of authoritarianism, requiring strong central govt control, censorship/control of media, a lack of adherence to established rule of law, and the suppression of political opposition.

 

Trump is:

 

a constitutionalist- he wanted rule of law followed 

 

He relinquished more power to the states, lessening federal power. Power closer to the people. 

 

he wanted less regulation (again less federal govt interference)

 

He is pro free speech

 

His son is law is Jewish as is his grandchild. His son in law helped create one of the most important peace accords in the Middle East between Israel and a number of Muslim countries, the Abraham Accords. To me his is not Hitleresque, quite the contrary.  

 

Trump moved the American Embassy to Jerusalem to show his support for Israel

 

Biden on the other hand has been tramping the constitution (free speech, trying to extinguish student loans by fiat which he can’t legally, has send billions to Iran who has stated they want to remove Israel off the map, etc), and has consistently tried to aggregate more power at the federal level. He’s also worked with big tech to censor and weaponized his DOJ against political opponents. All of this is more fascist than anything Trump has done.

Anyways. It seems there’s a real bias on this site to views that come from the CNN’s of the world and until and unless people are open minded enough to seek out independent journalists, to educate themselves on information beyond what the CNN’s say, then consider it, a discussion from my perspective is pointless.
 

We have to honestly assess facts and not use emotional hyperbole to have honest, intellectual debates, and I am certainly not going to convince anyone to seek that info out, it’s something one has to get to on their own, through logic and questioning. 
 

But as I move back to hockey for good here’s an actual example for you re: biden and censorship/ fascism.

 

Cheers! 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/07/07/biden-barred-influencing-social-media-free-speech-win/70387141007/

 

 

 

 

53 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Okay, so here's a question for you, How much have you read or studied Hitler's rise to power and the steps he took to achieve the position of Chancellor of Germany?

 

I'm not calling any of these guys Hitler, you're taking that as out of context as the media does on most situations. I'm saying that there was a pattern of conquest that Hitler followed and it was a REALLY GOOD ONE! It worked.

 

So, tell me without Googling it, what you know! I had a teacher in school who grew up in Nazi Germany and had memories of he and his brother and father having to ride on bikes, out of town and hide in the forest at times as troops would be sent into regions to round up a certain number of men and boys and execute them as a way to keep order anywhere they thought they were starting to lose control. I have researched Hitlers rise to power extensively, there are patterns that he followed and there are leaders in the world who are following the same pattern. Saddam was NOT one of them, his objectives were smaller and more contained.

 

Trump is DEFINITELY a student of Hitler

Putin is DEFINITELY a student of Hitler.

 

Hitler LOVED negotiation, same as Putin would love right now. There wasn't a peace treaty that Hitler wouldn't throw out as soon as it had outlived its usefulness to his objectives. He would take land, promise not to take more. Then he'd take more and promise, only this, this and nothing more. All the time, building military capabilities. The world started stepping in when he took Poland. We are on the same path right now if we negotiate without 100% withdrawal of all Russian forces. Give them time, they will solidify they position and re-arm themselves, just as happened with Crimea. 

 

While I respect your opinion and your right to an opinion, no one wants a war, no one approaches this wanting a long battle, but there is only one way to stop some leaders from continuing conquest. Putin started this, he has one objective, that's the Subjugation of Ukraine, for now. If we let it happen, we will be dealing with a stronger Russia in 5 years as they decide to subjugate another country.

 

Negotiation ONLY work if both sides are sincere in their intentions. Putin is NOT. He only wants time to re-arm.

 

 

Take it to the trump thread please gentlemen.

[Warhippy]

I will repeat the simplest statement in regards to peace that seems to be forgotten by some posters.

 

If Russia lays down it's arms.  Ukraine still loses land and Russia can then recover.

 

If Ukraine lays down its arms.  It will cease to exist.

 

I would expect anyone within a community with a certain knowledge of horrific acts of disarmament, promises of peace and then attempted extermination to understand this more than anyone on two different continents less than 27 years apart but then history frequently gets forgotten in the rush to self appeasement

[bishopshodan]

26 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

”Trump takes lessons from Hitler ” paraphrasing. We really need to move away from media driven hyperbole and deal with facts Vs emotions driven by dislike of a person. I will accept your dislike of Trump, what I can’t accept is something categorically false.

 

 

Well, his wife did say thata he kept Hitler speeches beside the bed.

 

Which media does she work for?

[BlockerHigh]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Well, his wife did say thata he kept Hitler speeches beside the bed.

 

Which media does she work for?

Vanity Fair wrote that - they don’t lie ever  

 

every media outlet said he was a russian asset too - and Clinton paid for the steele dossier 

 

anyways. No need to tag me. There’s little point here. He literally helped Israel more than any president in 50 years but he’s a nazi. Got it 

 

ignore his actions for adjectives 

 

not how I assess things 

[Honky Cat]

 

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

Vanity Fair wrote that - they don’t lie ever  

 

So did John Kelly in his book.

 

Did John or Ivana ever dispute these claims that they were quoted saying?

[Honky Cat]

 

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

No need to tag me. There’s little point here. He literally helped Israel more than any president in 50 years but he’s a nazi. Got it 

 

ignore his actions for adjectives 

 

not how I assess things 

I'll tag ya if I want.

It's a discussion board.

 

I never called him a nazi. John and Ivana said stuff but I didn't

 

my opinion of him hasn't changed since i hated him on that reality show, then when I heard from his mouth, not from any media, his mouth....the stuff he said about women...well That was it. He's a dirt bag. Always has been. 

[bishopshodan]

22 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

 

 

Take it to the trump thread please gentlemen.

sH*t right, making a mess

[Gnarcore]

2 hours ago, BlockerHigh said:

When the media calls someone hitler I discount it 

 

Saddam was Hitler with WMD’s

Trump is Hitler

Putin is Hitler

 

everyone who the military Industrial Complex hates is hitler. Hard to take it seriously 

 

I appreciate putin is a bad man, but it doesn’t make him hitler and such comparisons are actually an insult to my community.

 

 

 

 

The overuse of Hitler and Nazi in comparisons annoys me to no end. Are there groups of people due to their race on trains and headed to death camps? No? Find another comparison. You can compare policies and actions to things done by Nazis but unless genocide is on the table no blanket statements. 

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, BlockerHigh said:

Ok now you’ve lost credibility with me

 

”Trump takes lessons from Hitler ” paraphrasing. We really need to move away from media driven hyperbole and deal with facts Vs emotions driven by dislike of a person. I will accept your dislike of Trump, what I can’t accept is something categorically false.

 

He was in power for 4 years. Please show my how he enacted fascist policy?

 

I see this comment often, I don’t think many even know what fascism is but rather want to use it as a slur.

Fascism is a form of authoritarianism, requiring strong central govt control, censorship/control of media, a lack of adherence to established rule of law, and the suppression of political opposition.

 

Trump is:

 

a constitutionalist- he wanted rule of law followed 

 

He relinquished more power to the states, lessening federal power. Power closer to the people. 

 

he wanted less regulation (again less federal govt interference)

 

He is pro free speech

 

His son is law is Jewish as is his grandchild. His son in law helped create one of the most important peace accords in the Middle East between Israel and a number of Muslim countries, the Abraham Accords. To me his is not Hitleresque, quite the contrary.  

 

Trump moved the American Embassy to Jerusalem to show his support for Israel

 

Biden on the other hand has been tramping the constitution (free speech, trying to extinguish student loans by fiat which he can’t legally, has send billions to Iran who has stated they want to remove Israel off the map, etc), and has consistently tried to aggregate more power at the federal level. He’s also worked with big tech to censor and weaponized his DOJ against political opponents. All of this is more fascist than anything Trump has done.

Anyways. It seems there’s a real bias on this site to views that come from the CNN’s of the world and until and unless people are open minded enough to seek out independent journalists, to educate themselves on information beyond what the CNN’s say, then consider it, a discussion from my perspective is pointless.
 

We have to honestly assess facts and not use emotional hyperbole to have honest, intellectual debates, and I am certainly not going to convince anyone to seek that info out, it’s something one has to get to on their own, through logic and questioning. 
 

But as I move back to hockey for good here’s an actual example for you re: biden and censorship/ fascism.

 

Cheers! 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/07/07/biden-barred-influencing-social-media-free-speech-win/70387141007/

 

 

 

There is plenty written and documented on how Hitler achieved power. You really seem to just be looking to troll and stay on your message of, Let Putin do whatever he wants. Going to leave it at that.

[Gnarcore]

1 hour ago, BlockerHigh said:

 

 

”Trump takes lessons from Hitler ” paraphrasing. We really need to move away from media driven hyperbole and deal with facts Vs emotions driven by dislike of a person. I will accept your dislike of Trump, what I can’t accept is something categorically false.

 

 

 

 

 

That is actually true though. He listened to his speeches and used techniques from it. This is on record. The triple repeating of things is a hallmark of HItler's speeches to drive it home. A very useful technique. 

[WeneedLumme]

The Russian troll has the honour of being the very first poster I have blocked on this new site. Well done troll boy.