The Russia/Ukraine War Thread

[SilentSam]

Just to add : 

 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

Edit

 

Edited April 12 by SilentSam

[CBH1926]

According to Ukrainian General Sodol, Russian forces outnumber them anywhere from 7 to 10 to 1 one on certain front lines. Lack of weaponry and now they are facing overwhelming numbers of enemy troops.

With the Moscow wing of the GOP blocking military aid and Europe just doesn’t have enough to give.

Things are looking bleak imo, hopefully I am wrong.

 

 

 

Edited April 12 by CBH1926

[SilentSam]

 

[SilentSam]

 

[Kootenay Gold]

 

[UnkNuk]

14 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

According to Ukrainian General Sodol, Russian forces outnumber them anywhere from 7 to 10 to 1 one on certain front lines. Lack of weaponry and now they are facing overwhelming numbJ.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Upers of enemy troops.

With the Moscow wing of the GOP blocking military aid and Europe just doesn’t have enough to give.

Things are looking bleak imo, hopefully I am wrong.

 

 

 

 

JD Vance, Republican Senator from Ohio, outlines his concerns about Ukraine in an opinion piece in the NYT.

 

IF what he writes is accurate, things do indeed look bleak.

 

Hopefully, he's wrong.

 

J.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Up

 

Ukraine’s challenge is not the G.O.P.; it’s math. Ukraine needs more soldiers than it can field, even with draconian conscription policies. And it needs more matériel than the United States can provide. This reality must inform any future Ukraine policy, from further congressional aid to the diplomatic course set by the president.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j00.PUfn.fDrAjxxisXzR&smid=url-share

 

 

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

14 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

JD Vance, Republican Senator from Ohio, outlines his concerns about Ukraine in an opinion piece in the NYT.

 

IF what he writes is accurate, things do indeed look bleak.

 

Hopefully, he's wrong.

 

J.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Up

 

Ukraine’s challenge is not the G.O.P.; it’s math. Ukraine needs more soldiers than it can field, even with draconian conscription policies. And it needs more matériel than the United States can provide. This reality must inform any future Ukraine policy, from further congressional aid to the diplomatic course set by the president.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j00.PUfn.fDrAjxxisXzR&smid=url-share

 

 

 

 

Ukraine need weapons. Not Math lessons. 

[Boudrias]

17 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

JD Vance, Republican Senator from Ohio, outlines his concerns about Ukraine in an opinion piece in the NYT.

 

IF what he writes is accurate, things do indeed look bleak.

 

Hopefully, he's wrong.

 

J.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Up

 

Ukraine’s challenge is not the G.O.P.; it’s math. Ukraine needs more soldiers than it can field, even with draconian conscription policies. And it needs more matériel than the United States can provide. This reality must inform any future Ukraine policy, from further congressional aid to the diplomatic course set by the president.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j00.PUfn.fDrAjxxisXzR&smid=url-share

 

 

 

 

Questionable opinion piece. It ignores much of the Euro contribution and seems to suggest that the USA has to provide all Ukrainian needs. Almost sounds like a Russian effort to influence American policy. 

 

The reality faced by Ukraine has not changed. NATO should have issued an ultimatum  to Russia to withdraw from Ukraine by a certain date or NATO forces would be sent into Ukraine. It does not require a Article 5 to do this. It takes political will. 

[UnkNuk]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Questionable opinion piece. It ignores much of the Euro contribution and seems to suggest that the USA has to provide all Ukrainian needs. Almost sounds like a Russian effort to influence American policy. 

 

 

But don't you find the shortfall between the weapons Ukraine says it needs (according to Vance) and the weapons the US is able to provide (using his example of 155-millimeter shells) alarming?

 

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

The reality faced by Ukraine has not changed. NATO should have issued an ultimatum  to Russia to withdraw from Ukraine by a certain date or NATO forces would be sent into Ukraine. It does not require a Article 5 to do this. It takes political will. 

 

But Putin countered that possibility by saying he would be willing to use nuclear weapons in such a scenario, didn't he?  In which case the West would have needed to say that the West would be willing to use nuclear weapons if he didn't immediately stop the invasion.  That's some pretty serious brinkmanship.

[Yoshiyoshi]

1 hour ago, UnkNuk said:

 

But don't you find the shortfall between the weapons Ukraine says it needs (according to Vance) and the weapons the US is able to provide (using his example of 155-millimeter shells) alarming?

 

 

But Putin countered that possibility by saying he would be willing to use nuclear weapons in such a scenario, didn't he?  In which case the West would have needed to say that the West would be willing to use nuclear weapons if he didn't immediately stop the invasion.  That's some pretty serious brinkmanship.

Nuclear weapons are irrelevant to the situation. We can fight Russia in Ukraine, or we can fight Russia in our own backyard. Its a question of when not if. Better to fight now than put it off till later and the people who are sabotaging those efforts are just making things worse for all of us. Ukrainian aid is an investment, not an expense.

[UnkNuk]

10 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Nuclear weapons are irrelevant to the situation.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Isn't the potential use of nuclear weapons relevant to any situation?

[Yoshiyoshi]

Just now, UnkNuk said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Isn't the potential use of nuclear weapons relevant to any situation?

no, you cant control whether or not Russia will use them, so any situation where Russia is the aggressor worrying about Russian usage of them doesnt matter. It would be different if we were invading Russia but in this context its like worrying about someone who is trying to kill someone else shooting you for trying to stop them. If you have to ability to prevent someone being murdered then you usually should do that. Im not happy with the analogy there, but I cant think of a better way to put it.

[Sharpshooter]

58 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Isn't the potential use of nuclear weapons relevant to any situation?

Not necessarily. You also may not be understanding the context of the poster you replied to. 
 

 

[UnkNuk]

2 hours ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

no, you cant control whether or not Russia will use them, so any situation where Russia is the aggressor worrying about Russian usage of them doesnt matter. It would be different if we were invading Russia but in this context its like worrying about someone who is trying to kill someone else shooting you for trying to stop them. If you have to ability to prevent someone being murdered then you usually should do that. Im not happy with the analogy there, but I cant think of a better way to put it.

 

But it does seem to matter to the West.  Russia is the aggressor against Ukraine.  The West seems to have decided that all-out defense of Ukraine isn't worth the risk of a nuclear war.  Thus the West's rather mixed support of Ukraine.

 

If, for instance, Russian had invaded France, I suspect France would be much more willing to resort to the use of nuclear weapons in defense of itself.

 

[112]

China supporting Russia in massive military expansion, US says

Beijing helping with drone production, space-based capabilities and ballistic missile production

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/12/china-supporting-russia-in-massive-military-expansion-us-says

[CBH1926]

6 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

 

JD Vance, Republican Senator from Ohio, outlines his concerns about Ukraine in an opinion piece in the NYT.

 

IF what he writes is accurate, things do indeed look bleak.

 

Hopefully, he's wrong.

 

J.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Up

 

Ukraine’s challenge is not the G.O.P.; it’s math. Ukraine needs more soldiers than it can field, even with draconian conscription policies. And it needs more matériel than the United States can provide. This reality must inform any future Ukraine policy, from further congressional aid to the diplomatic course set by the president.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j00.PUfn.fDrAjxxisXzR&smid=url-share

 

 

 

 

Vance is little too close to Trump’s posterior for my liking but similar sentiment has been expressed by U.S military personnel. Europe’s military industry has been dormant for decades, it is going to take a long time to rebuild it.

 

Russians artillery shells production is outpacing West by 3 to 1.

Plus all that mishmash of various weapons being delivered to Ukraine makes things more complicated.

Edited April 13 by CBH1926

[CBH1926]

6 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Questionable opinion piece. It ignores much of the Euro contribution and seems to suggest that the USA has to provide all Ukrainian needs. Almost sounds like a Russian effort to influence American policy. 

 

The reality faced by Ukraine has not changed. NATO should have issued an ultimatum  to Russia to withdraw from Ukraine by a certain date or NATO forces would be sent into Ukraine. It does not require a Article 5 to do this. It takes political will. 

There is no appetite or political will in Europe to fight Russia. You really think that Canada would participate in war against Russia? Putin has declared Crimea part of Russia, the moment we go in there, he will consider that as an attack on Russia.

 

I don’t see him having issues with contaminating battle field in Ukraine by using limited nuclear attack. Or retaliate against some small insignificant Eastern European NATO country like Montenegro, Albania, North Macedonia etc. to send message to London, Paris and Berlin.

 

[Muscatel Marauder]

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

5 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

 

But don't you find the shortfall between the weapons Ukraine says it needs (according to Vance) and the weapons the US is able to provide (using his example of 155-millimeter shells) alarming?

 

 

But Putin countered that possibility by saying he would be willing to use nuclear weapons in such a scenario, didn't he?  In which case the West would have needed to say that the West would be willing to use nuclear weapons if he didn't immediately stop the invasion.  That's some pretty serious brinkmanship.

I'm fairly certain that russian military doctrine states that nuclear weapons are only to be used when the motherland is threatened, thus alluding to the use of nukes in a defensive capacity.

[Muscatel Marauder]

 

[UnkNuk]

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

Vance is little too close to Trump’s posterior for my liking but similar sentiment has been expressed by U.S military personnel. Europe’s military industry has been dormant for decades, it is going to take a long time to rebuild it.

 

Russians artillery shells production is outpacing West by 3 to 1.

Plus all that mishmash of various weapons being delivered to Ukraine makes things more complicated.

 

That's really the (sad) point here.

 

Things are beginning to sound more bleak for Ukraine than they have in the past.

[SilentSam]

 

 

[SilentSam]

The UAR-15 assault rifle is a Ukrainian-made semi-automatic self-loading carbine. It has several modifications with different barrel lengths.
The rifle has higher accuracy, firing range and lower weight compared to Soviet-era weapons.
The layout is modular, it is possible to install a device for reducing the sound level of a shot, sights and other tactical accessories. The resource of the barrel is approximately ten thousand shots. The UAR-15 was adopted by the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 2023.
 

 

 

[SilentSam]

Just not happening quick enough,

but at least it is..