The Russia/Ukraine War Thread

[SilentSam]

Translated :

 

 

Moscow Exchange announced the impossibility of returning dollars and euros to clients

Instead of currency, NCC will pay in rubles, the exchange reassures.

 

 

 

 

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, bolt said:

When does this war end?

When Putin stops wasting oxygen and his replacement pulls out of Ukraine.

[SilentSam]

2 minutes ago, bolt said:

When does this war end?

when RuZ collapses internally or

 

maybe when Putin is assassinated..

but I think Russians may want to be liberated from the Empire and Axis of Evil for Terrorism and Disruption in the World.

 

The longer it goes the “safer” it is from a Nuclear war..

But a Nuclear War may be what Putin resorts to , and dies with.

[Warhippy]

36 minutes ago, bolt said:

When does this war end?

When Russia collapses.  China annexes Russian territory.  Putin dies and they see reason.  Or they pack their shit up and leave Ukranian territory.

 

All Ukranian territory.

 

Why ask a question with such an obvious answer?

[RupertKBD]

54 minutes ago, bolt said:

When does this war end?

 

A question better posed on a KHL message board....

[Yoshiyoshi]

1 hour ago, bolt said:

When does this war end?

it takes a long time for a country to destroy itself. Russia can keep this up for years probably if the people in Russia dont rebel. Putin is gambling on having more stamina than Ukraine and its allies and Russia is a big country that they can strip people and resources from to prop up their war. Sometimes quantity can beat quality and thats what Putin is aiming for.

[Kootenay Gold]

14 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

it takes a long time for a country to destroy itself. Russia can keep this up for years probably if the people in Russia dont rebel. Putin is gambling on having more stamina than Ukraine and its allies and Russia is a big country that they can strip people and resources from to prop up their war. Sometimes quantity can beat quality and that's what Putin is aiming for.

If the Ukrainians can find a way to eliminate 5000 Ruskies a week for a sustained period of a few months; this war will end sooner than we think. Seems to already be a degree of unrest in Russia.

 

F-16's delivering guided bombs on troop concentrations along with increasing numbers of drone strikes on refineries etc. may help facilitate that.

[Yoshiyoshi]

34 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

If the Ukrainians can find a way to eliminate 5000 Ruskies a week for a sustained period of a few months; this war will end sooner than we think. Seems to already be a degree of unrest in Russia.

 

F-16's delivering guided bombs on troop concentrations along with increasing numbers of drone strikes on refineries etc. may help facilitate that.

5000 a week for 2 or more years wont even be a percentage point on their total population. Russia can sustain that level of losses for years so long as the Russian people continue to allow it

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

When Russia collapses.  China annexes Russian territory.  Putin dies and they see reason.  Or they pack their shit up and leave Ukranian territory.

 

All Ukranian territory.

 

Why ask a question with such an obvious answer?

 

Canadian con's are in a tough spot. They are desperate to follow the US maga talking points, but know they can't afford to lose the support of the Canadian Ukrainian diaspora. 

 

Must be very uncomfortable for him. 

 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

If the Ukrainians can find a way to eliminate 5000 Ruskies a week for a sustained period of a few months; this war will end sooner than we think. Seems to already be a degree of unrest in Russia.

 

F-16's delivering guided bombs on troop concentrations along with increasing numbers of drone strikes on refineries etc. may help facilitate that.

Ukraine is slowly destroying Russian infrastructure. No diesel, then crops don't get planted. If dams, power plants, harbors, rail centres etc start going down then Russia implodes. I thought the F-16's would already be in use by now but soon I guess. Their impact could be very significant. Ukraine is getting more air defense which will neutralize the Russian air strikes to some extent. A cold winter with limited food will make the Russian people take action. 

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

When Russia collapses.  China annexes Russian territory.  Putin dies and they see reason.  Or they pack their shit up and leave Ukranian territory.

 

All Ukranian territory.

 

Why ask a question with such an obvious answer?

I believe that this is a real scenario. Russia has incredible oil and mineral resources that would greatly aid China. If you wanted to take over a really big gold mine, wouldn't it be better if the current owners depleted all of their resources defending it BEFORE you even show up to take it over?

 

Russia is so depleted right now, Chinese military would roll right through them if they decided to do so. Considering how badly the Russian military has performed, army and equipment, there are huge questions right now about whether or not they still have a real nuclear deterrent or if its just smoke and mirrors. 

[Yoshiyoshi]

4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I believe that this is a real scenario. Russia has incredible oil and mineral resources that would greatly aid China. If you wanted to take over a really big gold mine, wouldn't it be better if the current owners depleted all of their resources defending it BEFORE you even show up to take it over?

 

Russia is so depleted right now, Chinese military would roll right through them if they decided to do so. Considering how badly the Russian military has performed, army and equipment, there are huge questions right now about whether or not they still have a real nuclear deterrent or if its just smoke and mirrors. 

I dont think thats how things will go down. China has never been big on conquering other countries, I think what you will see is that Russia will allow China to exploit their resources with very favorable deals and will end up conquering them economically rather than with force. It may still say Russia on the map but it will be owned by China. In fact wasnt there a post in the last week of something like this already with control of a river on the border?

[VegasCanuck]

6 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

I dont think thats how things will go down. China has never been big on conquering other countries, I think what you will see is that Russia will allow China to exploit their resources with very favorable deals and will end up conquering them economically rather than with force. It may still say Russia on the map but it will be owned by China. In fact wasnt there a post in the last week of something like this already with control of a river on the border?

Nepal say's Hi

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

I dont think thats how things will go down. China has never been big on conquering other countries, I think what you will see is that Russia will allow China to exploit their resources with very favorable deals and will end up conquering them economically rather than with force. It may still say Russia on the map but it will be owned by China. In fact wasnt there a post in the last week of something like this already with control of a river on the border?

Hong Kong? 

[Gurn]

Tibet

[Yoshiyoshi]

Ok going a little off topic but ill answer you guys. I am not an expert in Chinese history so not going to claim perfect understanding

Nepal - ok a war in the 18 century which made them a tributary. Also a civil war recently that one faction supported China and maybe were even backed by them. This kinda agrees with what i was trying to say, they dont invade for conquest. They support a local government subservient to them.

Hong Kong was rented to the british and then returned to china from british control. Not an invasion and even though they betrayed the promises they made it still fits with what i was saying

Tibet - Land that China considers Chinese even though it was effectively independent for 600 years. It falls into the same category as Taiwan in land that China considers their territory. There is a big difference in retaking territory they consider ancestrally theirs vs invading a country that they never had any claim to. Other than Outer Manchuria of course which if they did invade that it would be consistent with their historical behavior.

 

So what im saying is that there is a big difference between invading a country like Russia vs a small one that used to "belong" to your country in the past. That being said, the current Chinese leader is someone who may be willing to change the rules and start expanding territory.

Edited June 22 by Yoshiyoshi
typo

[Kootenay Gold]

1 hour ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

5000 a week for 2 or more years wont even be a percentage point on their total population. Russia can sustain that level of losses for years so long as the Russian people continue to allow it

That is just the point. Those kind of losses are likely to trigger Putin's demise. As for total population, divide by two thus removing women out of the equation, then reduce it some more for children under the age 16. You still need people to run businesses and factories.

 

Bottom line is he has already lost 500,000 to either death or serious injury. Losses of 5000 a week are not sustainable IMO.

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Ok going a little off topic but ill answer you guys. I am not an expert in Chinese history so not going to claim perfect understanding

Nepal - ok a war in the 18 century which made them a tributary. Also a civil war recently that one faction supported China and maybe were even backed by them. This kinda agrees with what i was trying to say, they dont invade for conquest. They support a local government subservient to them.

Hong Kong was rented to the british and then returned to british control. Not an invasion and even though they betrayed the promises they made it still fits with what i was saying

Tibet - Land that China considers Chinese even though it was effectively independent for 600 years. It falls into the same category as Taiwan in land that China considers their territory. There is a big difference in retaking territory they consider ancestrally theirs vs invading a country that they never had any claim to. Other than Outer Manchuria of course which if they did invade that it would be consistent with their historical behavior.

 

So what im saying is that there is a big difference between invading a country like Russia vs a small one that used to "belong" to your country in the past. That being said, the current Chinese leader is someone who may be willing to change the rules and start expanding territory.

The only thing preventing China from seizing Taiwan is NATO

[Yoshiyoshi]

2 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

That is just the point. Those kind of losses are likely to trigger Putin's demise. As for total population, divide by two thus removing women out of the equation, then reduce it some more for children under the age 16. You still need people to run businesses and factories.

 

Bottom line is he has already lost 500,000 to either death or serious injury. Losses of 5000 a week are not sustainable IMO.

 

I think it was in this thread a few months ago a link to a movie from a Russian who is opposed to Putin who described the difference between Ukrainians and Russians. Im paraphrasing it here but he said that Ukrainians like freedom and choice whereas Russians prefer stability and order. So basically he said that Russians would rather stick with a bad leader who tells them what to do and what their place is than the uncertainty of making decisions for themselves. A very brief google search gave me around 4800 military losses a day on the eastern front of WW2 and Russia did that for 4 years. The Russian population was about 60 million higher with Ukraine, Belarus, etc as part of it so im not sure if that makes the losses in the current war higher or lower than WW2 but either way it shows that they can sustain such losses for a long time without folding.

[Kootenay Gold]

50 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

I think it was in this thread a few months ago a link to a movie from a Russian who is opposed to Putin who described the difference between Ukrainians and Russians. Im paraphrasing it here but he said that Ukrainians like freedom and choice whereas Russians prefer stability and order. So basically he said that Russians would rather stick with a bad leader who tells them what to do and what their place is than the uncertainty of making decisions for themselves. A very brief google search gave me around 4800 military losses a day on the eastern front of WW2 and Russia did that for 4 years. The Russian population was about 60 million higher with Ukraine, Belarus, etc as part of it so im not sure if that makes the losses in the current war higher or lower than WW2 but either way it shows that they can sustain such losses for a long time without folding.

That Eastern front your mentioned was in Russia; They had no choice but to fight. That is not the case in this war; at least not for Russia.

 

[DSVII]

4 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

I believe that this is a real scenario. Russia has incredible oil and mineral resources that would greatly aid China. If you wanted to take over a really big gold mine, wouldn't it be better if the current owners depleted all of their resources defending it BEFORE you even show up to take it over?

 

Russia is so depleted right now, Chinese military would roll right through them if they decided to do so. Considering how badly the Russian military has performed, army and equipment, there are huge questions right now about whether or not they still have a real nuclear deterrent or if its just smoke and mirrors. 

I don't see it happening unless Putin's regime falls and there's a factional civil war.

 

Why pay the costs in occupyng something when your vassal state will extract it for you.

 

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

That Eastern front your mentioned was in Russia; They had no choice but to fight. That is not the case in this war; at least not for Russia.

 

Not directly in response to your point but it got me thinking, there are striking similarities between (putins) russians and the nazis if we want to draw a parallel with WWII. Hitler took the Sudetenland with little to no resistance, similar to putin and Crimea, and for similar stated reasons for that matter. That's where the similarities end fortunately. When the Nazis invaded the rest of  Czechoslovakia they again met little to no resistance, locally or internationally. The Russians in Ukraine, not so much.

 

This is why International support is so crucial. Putin is a psychopath, just like Hitler. His aspirations extend well beyond Ukraine and he can't succeed under any circumstances. We saw what happens when the International community sits back and lets it happen. We can never let that happen again. 

[SilentSam]

@Kootenay Gold @Yoshiyoshi

 

i believe we’ve been averaging 7000 a week for about 3-4 months now.

Many untrained civilians.

And now they’re pulling out vintage T55 tanks,.  Which I believe is 1950 circ.

 

 

 

[Boudrias]

13 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

I believe that this is a real scenario. Russia has incredible oil and mineral resources that would greatly aid China. If you wanted to take over a really big gold mine, wouldn't it be better if the current owners depleted all of their resources defending it BEFORE you even show up to take it over?

 

Russia is so depleted right now, Chinese military would roll right through them if they decided to do so. Considering how badly the Russian military has performed, army and equipment, there are huge questions right now about whether or not they still have a real nuclear deterrent or if its just smoke and mirrors. 

This is a real option for China. Economics often dictate political intent. China likes to play the long game but internal investment and growth is stagnating. If/when Russia collapses China will have the opportunity to seize parts of Siberia which they have always considered theirs. Such a move would secure energy and rare mineral assets they need. Taiwan becomes a little more irrelevant as China absorbs their take in Siberia. 

 

If/when Russia collapses the impact inside Russia and their satellites will reshape Europe. European growth has stagnated for decades as most countries in the EU rack up debt. A collapsed Russia/Belarus/satellites will equal a massive opportunity to 'civilize and develop' areas that have been exploited for 100's of years. It will be a massive undertaking. As Ukraine has undertaken the march to NATO and EU membership they have had to eradicate a level of corruption that is even more magnified in Russia. Putin and his gang don't provide much lip service to their so called communist forebears. They are outright gangsters and killers.   

[Gurn]

29 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

China will have the opportunity to seize parts of Siberia which they have always considered theirs.

They also consider part of the Arctic theirs- because their so big, and populous, that naturally part of everything is theirs.

In fact everything they can grab, push, or bully their way into getting is theirs.  Just ask them, if they haven't already told us.