The Russia/Ukraine War Thread

[King Heffy]

11 hours ago, SilentSam said:

there have been over 10 attempts at Zelensky ,.     It’s between 2 countries.

Putin is a terrorist and wanted at the Haugue for War crimes,.  
He is also responsible for most of the destabilization in the World .

personaly PB ,   I still stand by the notion that if you can cut off the head of the Snake,.  The body will die.

 

He holds guns to all of his Generals heads , that’s why all of this is happening.

 

His decisions to die by.

I don't see any benefit to letting Putin live.  He needs to be exterminated for this war to end.

[Yoshiyoshi]

59 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I don't see any benefit to letting Putin live.  He needs to be exterminated for this war to end.

The only benefit would be if he causes more harm to his country's war effort alive rather than dead. Im not qualified enough to determine whether that is the case though

[SilentSam]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Well, he actually is still the Russian president until he's voted out (highly unlikely) or removed, so what you consider him is a moot point. You do remember how WWI was started right? An assassination. 

 

A body double? Okay then. Any proof to this conspiracy theory?

You really think there is a fair / legit voting system in RuZ that keeps him in power ?

 

All Wars have been started either by INVASION Or Assassination 

 

You do remember who Hitler was ?..  and the Ideology behind the Natzi movement that he left intact?

 

 

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

You really think there is a fair / legit voting system in RuZ that keeps him in power ?

Did you notice the (highly unlikely)?

5 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

All Wars have been started either by INVASION Or Assassination 

And assassinating the president of Russia would most definitely result in nuclear war which would result in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people around the world, possibly billions. 

5 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

You do remember who Hitler was ?..  and the Ideology behind the Natzi movement that he left intact?

And what does Hitler have to do with the present conflict in Eastern Europe? You do realize that he committed suicide with Evan Braun right?

 

Do you remember Pol Pot? Oliver Cromwell? Joseph Stalin? Mao Tse Tung? All horrible figures in history who used either monarchy or oligarchic collectivism to instill fear in their populaces in order to steel control of their countries. And none were assassinated. 

 

Regardless, within a year from now, the war will be over through some semblance of peace talks. 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Putin says he is ready to end war as fighting with Ukraine is 'tragedy

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1837895/putin-ready-to-end-war-ukraine-zelensky

[King Heffy]

Just now, The Arrogant Worms said:

Putin says he is ready to end war as fighting with Ukraine is 'tragedy

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1837895/putin-ready-to-end-war-ukraine-zelensky

Ok.  He can start by withdrawing from Ukraine and then committing suicide.

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Did you notice the (highly unlikely)?

And assassinating the president of Russia would most definitely result in nuclear war which would result in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people around the world, possibly billions. 

And what does Hitler have to do with the present conflict in Eastern Europe? You do realize that he committed suicide with Evan Braun right?

 

Do you remember Pol Pot? Oliver Cromwell? Joseph Stalin? Mao Tse Tung? All horrible figures in history who used either monarchy or oligarchic collectivism to instill fear in their populaces in order to steel control of their countries. And none were assassinated. 

 

Regardless, within a year from now, the war will be over through some semblance of peace talks. 

PB ,  this rhetoric is going to derail this thread .….  Something I wish not to do because I participate and contribute to it regularly.

Furthermore ,  I find your arguments are guided by “conspiracy”.

 

Think of Ukraine as your own country , and your own relatives living there threatened constantly by Civilian targeting from RuZ.

 

Yes Peace at some point ,  but Putin must die.

He is the murderer.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

PB ,  this rhetoric is going to derail this thread .….  Something I wish not to do because I participate and contribute to it regularly.

Furthermore ,  I find your arguments are guided by “conspiracy”.

A differing viewpoint would derail the thread.....sure thing.

 

Please tell me how my comments, which are primarily rooted in actual fact, are guided by conspiracy? I mean you brought up a long dead dictator into the conversation for what reason exactly?

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

Think of Ukraine as your own country , and your own relatives living there threatened constantly by Civilian targeting from RuZ.

It is horrible what's occurring there, no doubt. But it can't go on in perpetuity, can it?

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

Yes Peace at some point ,  but Putin must die.

He is the murderer.

And killing him would begin a chain of events that could cause an extinction event. Would that be worth it? Is that a conspiracy? Or do numerous countries around the world possess nuclear arsenals? 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

A differing viewpoint would derail the thread.....sure thing.

 

Please tell me how my comments, which are primarily rooted in actual fact, are guided by conspiracy? I mean you brought up a long dead dictator into the conversation for what reason exactly?

It is horrible what's occurring there, no doubt. But it can't go on in perpetuity, can it?

And killing him would begin a chain of events that could cause an extinction event. Would that be worth it? Is that a conspiracy? Or do numerous countries around the world possess nuclear arsenals? 

If Putin was killed a goodly % of the Russian people would likely cheer. Just as they cheered when Prigozhin was leading his Wagner army towards Moscow. If Putin was killed no one would be certain who did it. Why his death would cause a world war is a question. The world would be a far better place without him and the Ukrainians have every reason and right to do so if they could pull it off. 

[King Heffy]

6 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

If Putin was killed a goodly % of the Russian people would likely cheer. Just as they cheered when Prigozhin was leading his Wagner army towards Moscow. If Putin was killed no one would be certain who did it. Why his death would cause a world war is a question. The world would be a far better place without him and the Ukrainians have every reason and right to do so if they could pull it off. 

Any plot to kill him would likely be Russians pulling the trigger anyway.

[SilentSam]

33 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

A differing viewpoint would derail the thread.....sure thing.

 

Please tell me how my comments, which are primarily rooted in actual fact, are guided by conspiracy? I mean you brought up a long dead dictator into the conversation for what reason exactly?

It is horrible what's occurring there, no doubt. But it can't go on in perpetuity, can it?

And killing him would begin a chain of events that could cause an extinction event. Would that be worth it? Is that a conspiracy? Or do numerous countries around the world possess nuclear arsenals? 

It seems The “nuclear deterrent “ is what your base ing most of your fear on ..

It has been noted throughout this thread in its existence that reports even from leaks within RuZ that 70-80 % of RuZ ‘s nuclear silos and arms are inoperable due to lack of maintenance.

They are more a threat to themselves than to anyone else.

Subs that are equipped are tracked and monitored by high intelligence.

 

there are many many articles on the matter that have previous been discussed here.

This is one .

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nuclear-weapons-testing

 

Russia is ,.  And is showing in this war that they are more a threat to themselves than any body else.

No discipline, no trained forces, antiquities armour dug up from the 2Ww ..

 

and now that Putin has drawn NATO countries closer as an entity .. they are ALl on standby.

 

This is all regurgitated discussion from Feb 2022 .

 

Living in fear of those who threaten you is a slow painful death for your children.

One without the freedom to fight back against Supremists like Stalin Hitler and Putin.

 

im done.

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

17 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

If Putin was killed a goodly % of the Russian people would likely cheer. Just as they cheered when Prigozhin was leading his Wagner army towards Moscow. If Putin was killed no one would be certain who did it. Why his death would cause a world war is a question. The world would be a far better place without him and the Ukrainians have every reason and right to do so if they could pull it off. 

I understand that Putin is a dictator. That is clear and evidential. 

 

If a Russian national was to carry out the task, there would be no major conflict, as it would be viewed as an internally managed situation. 

 

If a foreign government killed him with no concern for anonymity, it would be considered an international event, regardless of the person's crimes. Even if not a soul took responsibility for it, there would be a response. 

Other countries in the BRIC would react, as would Russia. And that could escalate very quickly, as recent rhetoric has proven. Maybe folks here take those threats as bluffs, but considering the Russian arsenal, not to mention unknown weaponry they may be working on, and the possibility for MAD is definitely there. 

 

 

[Satchmo]

I won't reply to any particular post but it seems to me this all started with a possibly off the cuff remark from Zelensky where he decided to talk tough.  I don't know how much should be read into it or if it's really worth all this fuss.   Both sides talk pretty tough from time to time.  Russia hasn't publicly stated they want to assassinate Zelenksky though I've heard they've tried and I'd expect they'd love to pull it off.  My 2 cents anyway. 

[PhillipBlunt]

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

It seems The “nuclear deterrent “ is what your base ing most of your fear on ..

More so concern. I'm not walking around everyday looking to the sky for the missile. 

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

It has been noted throughout this thread in its existence that reports even from leaks within RuZ that 70-80 % of RuZ ‘s nuclear silos and arms are inoperable due to lack of maintenance.

And are those reports factual? Considering that they're leaks, the veracity of the claims is tenuous without quantifiable evidence. 

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

They are more a threat to themselves than to anyone else.

That's communism for you. That ideology has never produced a single society that flourished for anyone but the oligarchs. 

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Subs that are equipped are tracked and monitored by high intelligence.

And one has to assume that the American subs are being monitored as well by the Russians.

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

there are many many articles on the matter that have previous been discussed here.

This is one .

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nuclear-weapons-testing

Interesting article, which really goes to show how any country with nuclear weapons has no real idea as to how potent or operational their most deadly arsenal is. Would be great if humans could agree to only use these against interstellar threats rather than each other. That's a whole other conversation. 

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Russia is ,.  And is showing in this war that they are more a threat to themselves than any body else.

No discipline, no trained forces, antiquities armour dug up from the 2Ww ..

Again.....the wonders of communism. 

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

and now that Putin has drawn NATO countries closer as an entity .. they are ALl on standby.

Standby, in theory, is fantastic, but in the event that the first missile is launched, what would they be standing by to do at that point?

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Living in fear of those who threaten you is a slow painful death for your children.

A feeling people in Russia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea know all too well. The Gulag, the Great Leap Forward, the Killing Fields are all testament to this. 

[RomanPer]

7 hours ago, Ralph. said:

I've seen this posted around a few times, with pics that do highlight differences suggesting body doubles. I definitely believe body doubles are in play, without a doubt.

 

How confident are you that he is indeed dead? Given his health record (combined with how deceptively Russia tries to operate) I don't find it outside the realm of possibility.

 

I was skeptical when the first rumors on the topic started. However, the speech by Patrushev a little while ago in which he referred to putin exclusively in past tense in a way you speak of a dead person in Russian language, leads me to believe that it actually might have happened.

[RomanPer]

36 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

More so concern. I'm not walking around everyday looking to the sky for the missile. 

And are those reports factual? Considering that they're leaks, the veracity of the claims is tenuous without quantifiable evidence. 

That's communism for you. That ideology has never produced a single society that flourished for anyone but the oligarchs. 

And one has to assume that the American subs are being monitored as well by the Russians.

Interesting article, which really goes to show how any country with nuclear weapons has no real idea as to how potent or operational their most deadly arsenal is. Would be great if humans could agree to only use these against interstellar threats rather than each other. That's a whole other conversation. 

Again.....the wonders of communism. 

Standby, in theory, is fantastic, but in the event that the first missile is launched, what would they be standing by to do at that point?

A feeling people in Russia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea know all too well. The Gulag, the Great Leap Forward, the Killing Fields are all testament to this. 

 

The reports are factual. There were countless examples of failed nuclear and rocket launching tests, time after time. Large number of russian rockets carrying nuclear warheads were produced back during Soviet times by a company called YuzhMash, located in Ukraine (Dnipro). All of them are way passed their normal operation timelines and must be maintained by the manufacturer on regular basis. YuzhMash stopped all the maintenance of these rockets in 2014.

 

In addition, all the Western intelligence means are covering every known russian launch site and defense systems are on high alert. I wouldn't consider russian nuclear threat as serious.

[Gurn]

If Putin is dead.

1 Immediately with draw the troops

2 Seize Vlad's personal wealth-est. $200 billion- leaving  $1 billion for his family, wouldn't want them to be 'destitute'

3 turn that money over to Ukraine as reparations.

4 Inform the world that while they would like to pay more towards the damage Vlad caused, it was all Vlad's idea; and frankly any money Russia has will be going to rebuilding their own economy and infrastructure.

 

the next steps are, unfortunately a real possibility

 

5 See if the world goes for it

6 rebuild military

7 wait a few years, and go after a different country- just to show the Russian populace that they are still strong, with a strong leader.

 

 

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

PB ,  this rhetoric is going to derail this thread .….  Something I wish not to do because I participate and contribute to it regularly.

Furthermore ,  I find your arguments are guided by “conspiracy”.

 

Think of Ukraine as your own country , and your own relatives living there threatened constantly by Civilian targeting from RuZ.

 

Yes Peace at some point ,  but Putin must die.

He is the murderer.

 

I don't really see anything wrong with him sharing his opinion. I know that I once urged someone not to share a different viewpoint on here and I regretted it. This is a forum where multiple opinions should be allowed. It's not like this is even a discussion against someone who's pro-Russia. It's just a different take on what should happen to Putin.

 

Can't we listen to what each other is saying and learn together the differing sides? Truth is, there's repercussions from Putin dying just as much as there is from him living. We have to be careful as there's someone named Patrushev in the wings likely to take over for Putin who's reported to be potentially much worse depending on who you ask. The man is driven by paranoia and conspiracy and is one of the people whispering into Putin's ear. He could even be one of the reasons this war happened to begin with. Basically, be careful what you wish for.

 

And don't get me wrong. I want this war to end as much as anyone else here. You know I do.

 

That being said, I don't fully agree with PB either. I don't think a nuclear war would necessarily happen if Putin dies. I just don't think we'd see the effect we want to see if he dies because it's not just him that's the problem. He's merely the mask in front of the bigger problem.

Edited November 22, 2023 by The Lock

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Putin says he is ready to end war as fighting with Ukraine is 'tragedy

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1837895/putin-ready-to-end-war-ukraine-zelensky

 

I never refused to talk peace, I was just punching you in the head all this time. 

[WeneedLumme]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

And assassinating the president of Russia would most definitely result in nuclear war which would result in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people around the world, possibly billions. 

 

If Putin dies, whoever takes over power is most likely going to feel very happy that they now have that power, before Putin got around to having them killed, and very relieved that they can now back out of Putin's ill-conceived "Special Military Operation", placing all the blame on Putin.

 

I think that they will be far more interested in consolidating their newfound power than they will be in pushing the button to destroy the world, at the very moment they finally reach their goal at the very top.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

And are those reports factual? Considering that they're leaks, the veracity of the claims is tenuous without quantifiable evidence. 

That's communism for you. That ideology has never produced a single society that flourished for anyone but the oligarchs. 

And one has to assume that the American subs are being monitored as well by the Russians.

Interesting article, which really goes to show how any country with nuclear weapons has no real idea as to how potent or operational their most deadly arsenal is. Would be great if humans could agree to only use these against interstellar threats rather than each other. That's a whole other conversation. 

Again.....the wonders of communism. 

Standby, in theory, is fantastic, but in the event that the first missile is launched, what would they be standing by to do at that point?

A feeling people in Russia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea know all too well. The Gulag, the Great Leap Forward, the Killing Fields are all testament to this. 

 

Regarding the factuality, all you have to do is look at the equipment Russia's put out on the battlefield. The US assessed a 60% failure rate for the equipment  (https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-us-assesses-up-60-failure-rate-some-russian-missiles-officials-say-2022-03-24/)

 

Why do you think that failure rate happened? One word: corruption. Instead of using funds to maintain equipment those funds were pocketed. Based on that, what do you think the chance of that happening with the nuclear arsenal is? That chance is going to be pretty high since corruption has proven to not just be in one place in the military. You just have to think things through to see the likelihood of such a scenario being very high.

 

The use of nuclear weapons is more of a deterrent these days than it is actually used, because any nuclear power knows the actual use of one will likely mean the end of their reign of their country. 

[VegasCanuck]

19 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Pure stupidity. Assassinating a world leader right now would be catastrophic. 

I don't think many people in the world have a problem with it. Russia has been orchestrating assassinations in other countries, they have tried to kill Zelensky, they get the chance? Take it!

 

Yes, there will be fallout and consequences, but war is war and Ukraine did not start this. 

[VegasCanuck]

19 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It’s not really “between” just “two countries”. 

Bush should be tried for his war crimes at The Hague too. Ever heard of Mohammed bin Salman? 

The world is unstable because of multiple causes. 

No. The body will send missiles to every major city and vaporize them. Causing humanity’s extinction event. 

I don’t see it being anywhere near that simple in reality. 

Responding to what I bolded above:

 

#1, Bush, yeah, probably should have been. The only reason it wasn't pushed was 9/11. Bush made some questionable decisions and what a lot of Americans really don't like to think about is the fact that the US created Bin Laden and the whole situation in Iraq by backing its leader against Iran.

#2, It absolutely is unstable because of multiple causes and many of those originate in Russia. I'm not saying that if Putin was killed, everything would magically stop, but it might signal to wannabe dictators that they aren't invulnerable in today's world and with today's technology to be killed by a strike.

#3, Russia, for all it's posturing, does NOT want a Nuclear War with the rest of the world. Considering how it's military has performed, there are substantial questions about whether they actually have a truly functional deterrent right now, and they REALLY do not want to find out that they brought a knife to a gun fight. They allocated billions to upgrading all aspects of their military over the last 10 or so years and the Oligarchs pocketed massive amounts of the money allocated. This is a big part of why they have underperformed. The Patriot system has shot down their most advanced missile, their Hypersonic Missile, multiple times. They do NOT want the world to know if their nuclear arsenal would get off the ground, they just want everyone to keep believing that it will. The unknown is what is keeping the rest of the world from directly providing ground forces and using advanced fighters to establish air superiority for the Ukraine. If Russia tried launching a nuclear missile and it exploded on or over their own territory (real possibility considering the firepower the US has in the region for it's own deterrent response), this conflict would end REALLY fast., The idea is a total non-starter...

 

[VegasCanuck]

6 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Putin says he is ready to end war as fighting with Ukraine is 'tragedy

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1837895/putin-ready-to-end-war-ukraine-zelensky

He's losing badly on the battle field and Russia is losing more customers for their military hardware with every passing day. He actually doesn't want the war to end, he just wants a pause for a few years while he rearms and tries to fix the problems with his faulty technology, and that ain't easy when there are increasing embargos on buying the chips and parts necessary. He keeps losing more production facilities within Russia, and I'm sure that he's running out of criminals that he can send into battle.

 

If he really wanted to end the war, all he has to do is announce that he's withdrawing troops and set a 10 day timetable for full withdraw from all territories including Crimea.

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

4 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

More so concern. I'm not walking around everyday looking to the sky for the missile. 

And are those reports factual? Considering that they're leaks, the veracity of the claims is tenuous without quantifiable evidence. 

That's communism for you. That ideology has never produced a single society that flourished for anyone but the oligarchs. 

And one has to assume that the American subs are being monitored as well by the Russians.

Interesting article, which really goes to show how any country with nuclear weapons has no real idea as to how potent or operational their most deadly arsenal is. Would be great if humans could agree to only use these against interstellar threats rather than each other. That's a whole other conversation. 

Again.....the wonders of communism. 

Standby, in theory, is fantastic, but in the event that the first missile is launched, what would they be standing by to do at that point?

A feeling people in Russia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea know all too well. The Gulag, the Great Leap Forward, the Killing Fields are all testament to this. 

The US, UK, France and Germany have so many anti-missile systems in the region and soooooo many satellite's trained on Russia 24/7 right now, they couldn't execute a launch without foreknowledge and as I stated a short time ago, it's already been proven a few times that the Patriot system can shoot down Russia's Hypersonic missiles, and that is far from the most advanced technology that the US has at its' disposal. Russia keeps loosing buyers for their military hardware because of how badly it is performing. You notice that they have essentially stopped firing their Hypersonic? Every time they fire it and its gets shot down, they lose more orders and more credibility for their ability to engineer and build effective military hardware. It's why they aren't flying their most advanced fighters within the Ukraine, they can't evade the dated air defense systems that the US has given the Ukraine.

 

Russia has badly damaged their image as a military power at this point and it is getting worse with every T90 that gets blown up by a drone packing 50 lbs of explosives.