The Russia/Ukraine War Thread

[iambrad]

can all you boys do me a favor & put 6foot5 on ignore and never respond to him again in this thread. don't want to see him get banned because he's deciding to act out this last week. cheers

[Yoshiyoshi]

5 minutes ago, 6foot5andJackedAF said:

1. That is what im saying is bad. The fact the evil Ukrainian government forces them to fight

2. Lol, propaganda worked well on you it seems.

3. Yes they are. Everyone has a family btw.

4. not sure what you mean here

 

  

The smart thing to do is to run most of the time. You only have one life, you can't fight for the freedom and safety of yourself and your family if you're dead. Sometimes you have to lay down your life to do whats right, but working for the financial interests of rich old people doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

 

All this just war and honorable soldier stuff is really just cope and propaganda. They are young people who just happened to be born in an area where groups of people are fighting. Now they are forced (by law) to go risk their lives and future mental well being for a "country" that clearly doesn't care too much about them if they're sending those men to die. Thinking otherwise is just believing a fantasy.

This confuses me, what about the Ukrainian government is evil? One of the main reasons for this war is that they have been removing corruption from their government and implementing western democratic values. Which rich old people do you think the Ukrainians are fighting for here? Once again another reason for this war is because they arent working for the benefit of those Oligarchs anymore. As to running away, theres only so far you can run and all the lands on this planet are taken. Barring a significant improvement in space travel technology this is no where else to run to. If you run everytime someone attacks you then you will always be running because the agressive people will just keep taking.

When you remove the rules of civilization and get back to the reality of the natural world, might makes right so if you dont fight back, you dont deserve anything. Just as nature intended. I personally prefer the world of civilization to nature and as such will support any efforts to counter those forces who want to abandon civilization and go back to the old ways

[JIAHN]

19 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

This confuses me, what about the Ukrainian government is evil? One of the main reasons for this war is that they have been removing corruption from their government and implementing western democratic values. Which rich old people do you think the Ukrainians are fighting for here? Once again another reason for this war is because they arent working for the benefit of those Oligarchs anymore. As to running away, theres only so far you can run and all the lands on this planet are taken. Barring a significant improvement in space travel technology this is no where else to run to. If you run everytime someone attacks you then you will always be running because the agressive people will just keep taking.

When you remove the rules of civilization and get back to the reality of the natural world, might makes right so if you dont fight back, you dont deserve anything. Just as nature intended. I personally prefer the world of civilization to nature and as such will support any efforts to counter those forces who want to abandon civilization and go back to the old ways

 

Bang on!

 

For some reason, this certain poster does not comprehend history, where countries have always inscripted their population for defending their home lands. England did it, the USA did it, the Japanese did it, the Chinese did it, the Germans did it, the Russians are doing it, yet for some reason, this does not compute with some people.

 

IN my opinion, this is a definition of a troll, that just ignores fact, and attempts to create havoc within a group of people..........It is not working, and has tarnished his own rep.

 

The mods say attack the comment not the poster, but repeatedly this poster comments with unsubstantiated rubbish, and absolutely never concedes a point. IMO, this is the definition of a Troll and the Mods should ban him. It is absolutely ridiculous they have not!

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by JIAHN

[StrayDog]

20 minutes ago, 6foot5andJackedAF said:

 

The smart thing to do is to run most of the time. You only have one life, you can't fight for the freedom and safety of yourself and your family if you're dead. Sometimes you have to lay down your life to do whats right, but working for the financial interests of rich old people doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

 

How exactly did you go from defending your freedom and family to fighting solely for rich old people? 

So when is this mythical "sometime" it's worth paying your life down for? Is it before or after they kill your parents and steal your children? Or will you still be running while they get gunned down?

You've gone from you should always flee to maybe sometimes it's worth fighting, but not if you can get hurt....

[JIAHN]

Further more............

 

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland, etc have a mandatory military service requirement, if you live in those and many other countries........what is the purpose of this if not to be ready for war, if called upon?

[StrayDog]

1 minute ago, JIAHN said:

Further more............

 

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland, etc have a mandatory military service requirement, if you live in those and many other countries........what is the purpose of this if not to be ready for war, if called upon?

Well clearly you'd be stupid to live someplace like that! Didn't you know it's the smart people that abandon friends and loved ones to invaders?

[JIAHN]

@StrayDog

 

I just got back from Thailand where there is a large Russian population. I had chance to talk to some, who were there with their families. These people were very aware of world opinion, and declared their disgust with their government, but stated there is no ability to voice disagreement, so their statement was to leave the country, and avoid conscription. They did not want to die, nor to kill.

 

Another family, 2 people who lived in Russia (Omsk), the man was Russian (55 years old), the woman Ukrainian (Tanya). We talked, and would say good morning each day, their view was similar to the first family, but they obviously did not expect to be drafted due to age, but left as a protest, as he was a manager, and she a nurse, and felt their absence would be felt.

 

Tanya, the nurse, knitted me a Christmas Tree ornament, and presented it to me, on my way to my car, after I had checked out. I believe it was a statement. "we are good people!" (with no voice!) PS...they actually had waited for me! That says something!

 

The third encounter I had was with a Russian man, who as I fiddled to repair a wheelchair, came over and held the wheelchair still, while I secured the foot rest. After I thanked him, he reached out and shook my hand. (something I was confused about, as it was me that was given the help, and we did not actually talk.) Again, I believe it was a statement.

 

The point I walked away from all this, is that, I had a strong feeling, that all the Russians I encountered wanted to show me, they were decent people, and wanted me to understand this. 

 

I came away with the conclusion, that they did not want the world to see them in a negative light.

 

PS.............I was in Thailand for 16 days, and probably met 20 or more Russians, in each case , I said hi and asked them where they were from, in each case, I would say "Hello from Canada!" and in each case without exception, even though they knew Canada was part of NATO and fighting their country, none were aggressive, and in most cases, responded with handshakes and "Hello's", this included the 4 young drunk Russians blocking the sidewalk in Pattaya, who quietly moved when I asked them to.

 

It has certainly made me ponder how the common Russian thinks about this war. Certainly,those that have left.

 

Just something I thought I would share this with all you.........I am open to disagreement, as it is certainly up for debate.....I can reach no other conclusion

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by JIAHN

[Sharpshooter]

2 hours ago, iambrad said:

can all you boys do me a favor & put 6foot5 on ignore and never respond to him again in this thread. don't want to see him get banned because he's deciding to act out this last week. cheers

Too late. 

[CBH1926]

War fatigue is starting to set in amongst those supporting Ukraine, especially Europeans.

I think Russians have consolidated after initial failures and huge losses.

For the most part Ukrainian counteroffensive has not achieved desired outcomes.

I hope I am wrong, but I don’t see Putin losing the war in Ukraine.

[JIAHN]

6 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

War fatigue is starting to set in amongst those supporting Ukraine, especially Europeans.

I think Russians have consolidated after initial failures and huge losses.

For the most part Ukrainian counteroffensive has not achieved desired outcomes.

I hope I am wrong, but I don’t see Putin losing the war in Ukraine.

 

I talked to a Finn while in Thailand, he is pissed with Russia, and they are digging in for the long haul. Germany is getting ready to increasing funding, and the baltic countries are working feverishly.......they feel they are next! So, I am not sure what you are talking about?

[RomanPer]

3 hours ago, JIAHN said:

 

I am sorry, but your stance on this entire thread lacks understanding

 

Your comments imply Ukraine's old people are the cause of this war, which is just not true

 

Russia started this war, Russia entered Ukraine illegally and killed, raped and torchured Ukrainian people

 

Why would anyone think Ukrainian old people brought this on? The premise is asinine!

 

As everyone in the world, except you understands this, I find it ridiculous to respond further

 

But I can not, but wonder why Ukrainians that are fighting for the safety of their countrymen/countrywoman, who voluntarily stayed, want to welcome back those that did not want to put their life on the line for their country?

 

Why would they risk their lives for those that flee, and want to come back? Why would they welcome back cowards that are protecting the cowards family, when the cowards will not do the same for their own families?

 

Why do you bother? Stop feeding the troll  

[CBH1926]

15 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

 

I talked to a Finn while in Thailand, he is pissed with Russia, and they are digging in for the long haul. Germany is getting ready to increasing funding, and the baltic countries are working feverishly.......they feel they are next! So, I am not sure what you are talking about?

 

This site does a very nice job of tracking all kinds of aid to Ukraine including military aid.

Comparing to last year aid has dropped tremendously. in some cases 80%.
If you think that Ukraine is going to win this war because of Latvia, Estonia, Finland etc. you are going to be disappointed. Not to mention that if Trump wins and pulls the plug on aid to Ukraine.

You think it’s coincidence that Putin is starting to visit countries like UAE and KSA?

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

Edited December 10, 2023 by CBH1926

[JIAHN]

53 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

 

This site does a very nice job of tracking all kinds of aid to Ukraine including military aid.

Comparing to last year aid has dropped tremendously. in some cases 80%.
If you think that Ukraine is going to win this war because of Latvia, Estonia, Finland etc. you are going to be disappointed. Not to mention that if Trump wins and pulls the plug on aid to Ukraine.

You think it’s coincidence that Putin is starting to visit countries like UAE and KSA?

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

Your info was as of Oct.31, 2023. It is old, and out dated

 

Read..........

1. www.bloomberg.com › news › articlesGermany Set to Double Its Ukraine Military Aid Under Scholz ...

   Nov 11, 2023 · Chancellor Olaf Scholz ’s governing coalition has agreed to double German military aid for Ukraine next year to €8 billion ($8.6 billion), people familiar with the matter said.

    

   Scholz on Ukraine aid: Germany should be prepared to do more 'when others are faltering'

   Dinara Khalilova, The Kyiv Independent news desk

   Sat, December 9, 2023 at 7:33 AM PST·1 min read

   56

   Germany should be prepared to increase its support for Ukraine "when others are faltering," German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said on Dec. 9, apparently referring to the uncertainty over further aid to Ukraine in the U.S.

    

   It took seconds to find this.........not to mention that the GOP has many friends building weapons, which will want this to continue. Trump is also not guaranteed to win. And actually could be convicted by the election, so again there are alot of factors. Don't buy into what is said by Trump it is only playing to his audience. War is extremely profitable to the USA, and as american weapons dominate Russian ones, it is a great advertisement for them.

    

   Also, if you look at your own info, notice how low the contributions of GDP is being contributed. The Americans spent 3.5 Trillion on the Afghan war..........they are no where close (less than 5% of that). This war is good for Republicans, so take what Trump says with a grain of salt. 

    

   You may be right, but I doubt it. Look at the total GDP of the EU and compare it to Russia's, then ask your self what happens it Russia expands their aspirations. (Which no one can discount) Imagine, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, the Baltics, all being taken over and their GDP being crushed. I would not think that would be healthy for the EU, nor any NATO country....or even South Korea or Japan. I even have my doubts China really wants that.

    

   This war is helping China get through their Covid collapse by providing them with cheap fuel, all the while, still selling to the west, changing things up, will hurt them as well. Not to mention if Russia actually looses and China grabs land.

    

   I have no crystal ball, but neither do you, and I am banking on greed, and panic.....so like I said there are many factors. hey, I could be wrong, but the Europeans, that I have recently talked to, remember their history.....Poland certainly does! I would imagine the Czechs do as well, when push comes to shove. Compare the EU's total population and their combined GDP and it make Russia's extremely tiny........to the point, Russia's GDP is smaller than Canada's right now. 

    

   But saying all that.......what a friggin mess!

[Joe King]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:04 PM, SilentSam said:

 

 

 

I realize not all the soldiers are married,but are they able to construct a thousand or so lada's per day.

[StrayDog]

12 hours ago, JIAHN said:

@StrayDog

 

I just got back from Thailand where there is a large Russian population. I had chance to talk to some, who were there with their families. These people were very aware of world opinion, and declared their disgust with their government, but stated there is no ability to voice disagreement, so their statement was to leave the country, and avoid conscription. They did not want to die, nor to kill.

 

Another family, 2 people who lived in Russia (Omsk), the man was Russian (55 years old), the woman Ukrainian (Tanya). We talked, and would say good morning each day, their view was similar to the first family, but they obviously did not expect to be drafted due to age, but left as a protest, as he was a manager, and she a nurse, and felt their absence would be felt.

 

Tanya, the nurse, knitted me a Christmas Tree ornament, and presented it to me, on my way to my car, after I had checked out. I believe it was a statement. "we are good people!" (with no voice!) PS...they actually had waited for me! That says something!

 

The third encounter I had was with a Russian man, who as I fiddled to repair a wheelchair, came over and held the wheelchair still, while I secured the foot rest. After I thanked him, he reached out and shook my hand. (something I was confused about, as it was me that was given the help, and we did not actually talk.) Again, I believe it was a statement.

 

The point I walked away from all this, is that, I had a strong feeling, that all the Russians I encountered wanted to show me, they were decent people, and wanted me to understand this. 

 

I came away with the conclusion, that they did not want the world to see them in a negative light.

 

PS.............I was in Thailand for 16 days, and probably met 20 or more Russians, in each case , I said hi and asked them where they were from, in each case, I would say "Hello from Canada!" and in each case without exception, even though they knew Canada was part of NATO and fighting their country, none were aggressive, and in most cases, responded with handshakes and "Hello's", this included the 4 young drunk Russians blocking the sidewalk in Pattaya, who quietly moved when I asked them to.

 

It has certainly made me ponder how the common Russian thinks about this war. Certainly,those that have left.

 

Just something I thought I would share this with all you.........I am open to disagreement, as it is certainly up for debate.....I can reach no other conclusion

 

 

I do feel for those Russians who had to leave their homes because they disagreed with the actions of their government and realized they could not stay home and make their voices heard. It has to be terrible to have no ability to speak out against what you feel is an injustice done by your country.

I'm glad they were able to find someplace safe, but saddened they felt a need to "prove" they were good and decent people.

[Northern_Nuck]

21 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

I do feel for those Russians who had to leave their homes because they disagreed with the actions of their government and realized they could not stay home and make their voices heard. It has to be terrible to have no ability to speak out against what you feel is an injustice done by your country.

I'm glad they were able to find someplace safe, but saddened they felt a need to "prove" they were good and decent people.

I don’t think they had to prove anything, that’s just the original poster’s bias shining through with the media driven agenda that Russian people are evil and bad. 
 I think the average person is generally good regardless of where they’re from. You take media, politics and business away and perhaps humanity can start treating eachother humanely.  

[SilentSam]

Putin up to his tricks using Orban as a pawn to nose his way into American Politics ,.

Cant believe Republicans and Democrats would allow this type of division seeding from another country to take place.

 

 

[SilentSam]

 

 

[SilentSam]

 

[SilentSam]

I think that durring this period in time where RuZ is openly in a War / Invasion of UKraine,

we should probably concede to assume that the RuZ / Putin/ Regime is manipulating every uprising and protest everywhere in the World .

 

it just seems too probable.

… this would explain why UKR is already in Israel,  and have been known to be targeting manufacturing in Iran.

 

The diversity of Putins destabilization operations and cross country meddling should put a target on his back by almost every Free Democratic Nation .

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

 

[RomanPer]

12 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

There’s also a short video, showing 

Zelensky speaking with Orban during the inauguration. Too bad we can’t hear the words. Would love to know how many time Zelensky called him “putin’s bitch” lol

 

 

 

[Muscatel Marauder]

 

[SilentSam]

To add to an earlier post :

 

 

 

 

 

[CBH1926]

12 hours ago, JIAHN said:

Your info was as of Oct.31, 2023. It is old, and out dated

 

It took seconds to find this.........not to mention that the GOP has many friends building weapons, which will want this to continue. Trump is also not guaranteed to win. And actually could be convicted by the election, so again there are alot of factors. Don't buy into what is said by Trump it is only playing to his audience. War is extremely profitable to the USA, and as american weapons dominate Russian ones, it is a great advertisement for them.

 

Also, if you look at your own info, notice how low the contributions of GDP is being contributed. The Americans spent 3.5 Trillion on the Afghan war..........they are no where close (less than 5% of that). This war is good for Republicans, so take what Trump says with a grain of salt. 

 

You may be right, but I doubt it. Look at the total GDP of the EU and compare it to Russia's, then ask your self what happens it Russia expands their aspirations. (Which no one can discount) Imagine, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, the Baltics, all being taken over and their GDP being crushed. I would not think that would be healthy for the EU, nor any NATO country....or even South Korea or Japan. I even have my doubts China really wants that.

 

This war is helping China get through their Covid collapse by providing them with cheap fuel, all the while, still selling to the west, changing things up, will hurt them as well. Not to mention if Russia actually looses and China grabs land.

 

I have no crystal ball, but neither do you, and I am banking on greed, and panic.....so like I said there are many factors. hey, I could be wrong, but the Europeans, that I have recently talked to, remember their history.....Poland certainly does! I would imagine the Czechs do as well, when push comes to shove. Compare the EU's total population and their combined GDP and it make Russia's extremely tiny........to the point, Russia's GDP is smaller than Canada's right now. 

 

But saying all that.......what a friggin mess!

My info was to show that comparing to 2022 aid has significantly dropped in 2023.

Next time try reading it first before responding. As far as Germany goes, that still has to go in front of German parliament in 2024 and get ratified. Also that amount is only 25% of total weapons pledged by the European nations in 2024 , the problem is  that there is lot of pushback from other countries.
 

No one is disputing that NATO and EU have more money than Russia, I am questioning willingness to spend it all to help Ukraine. Russia has converted about third of its total industry to produce military equipment. Is Canada or anyone else willing to do the same? Putin can’t lose the war, Ukraine has no choice but to fight, the rest of the world has other options. If U.S thinks that Ukraine can’t win the war, they will continue providing enough weapons to slowly bleed Russians but not enough to get them out of Ukraine.

 

I do agree that none of us have the crystal ball or know what will happen. All we can do is try to read tea leaves. My hope was for Ukraine to liberate their country. What I see now is quagmire, where Russians have dug in and fortified and liberating every square kilometer of the territory will be very costly. Considering that according to U.S intelligence sources Ukrainian army has 500k soldiers and thus far almost 100k have been killed and permanently maimed. Those are very heavy loses, now granted Russian loses are even higher but they have an army of 1.2 million so they can suffer bigger loses.

Edited December 10, 2023 by CBH1926