Northern_Nuck Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 19 hours ago, HKSR said: Wouldn't surprise me to see Kuzy traded by CGY at the draft or some time in the near future after pumping up his stats. It's the smart thing to do for a team that is retooling. Wouldn't have made sense for the Canucks to do that as it would have likely cost us some wins. We're a contending and competing club this year, so we had to make a move for a player that would help us win in the post season. I think they continue to pump his value until Christmas or the trade deadline next year and then they’ll flip him for something like 2-1st+, or a Lindholm like return. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 58 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said: I think they continue to pump his value until Christmas or the trade deadline next year and then they’ll flip him for something like 2-1st+, or a Lindholm like return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 3 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said: I think they continue to pump his value until Christmas or the trade deadline next year and then they’ll flip him for something like 2-1st+, or a Lindholm like return. They have to re-sign him to do that. If he resigns I suspect NMC. My impression is that Lindholm will take the best deal offered him. If he has a strong playoffs the bidding will be heavy and maybe PA has to move him before the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: They have to re-sign him to do that. If he resigns I suspect NMC. My impression is that Lindholm will take the best deal offered him. If he has a strong playoffs the bidding will be heavy and maybe PA has to move him before the draft. He was talking about Kuzmenko If Kuz was ever worth a 1st+, it would have been his 40-goal first season. If Canucks were offered that, they would have taken it at the time. Now the cat is out of the bag with him. Teams know he’s barely worth his cap hit, let alone additional valuable assets on top of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrago Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 21 hours ago, Lemon Face said: Why someone need to fleece someone for trade to be good.Kuz had no future with Tocchet.End of story.5 mil of the books,not bad.Calgary got something for player who is gone at the end of season.They are happy too Lol someone did get fleeced it just wasn't Calgary. If it was an even trade, that would have been nice. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 7 minutes ago, Thrago said: Lol someone did get fleeced it just wasn't Calgary. If it was an even trade, that would have been nice. I didn't realize lindholm played his last game with the Canucks last night. I also didn't know the draft has happened and the picks and prospects had made the NHL already. I'm out of the loop! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) On 4/9/2024 at 11:20 PM, Drakrami said: The Lindholm trade aside, Kuzmenko's 39 goals wasn't a fluke as some of us were saying all along. Hes on fire in Calgary. Skilled goal scorer. Eh, it wasn't likely his norm either though. The real Kuzmenko is probably somewhere between last season's 39 goal scoring Kuzmenko and what we saw from him as a Canuck this season. He's probably more a player who's good for 20+ goals and 40+ points than a player who gets you 30-40 goals and 60-80 points. I don't think last season was a fluke, I think there's a better chance he simply peaked right away and had a lot of things go right for him. His shooting percentage was sky high and by season's end it was 27.3%. That was never going to be sustainable forever, regression was more likely. Hell, we probably see some similar regression from Miller and Boeser next season, possibly Hoglander and Joshua (if he's still here ) too. They likely won't fall off a cliff, and increased shot volume may mitigate some regression, but regression wouldn't be surprising. As of right now Miller's shooting percentage is 19.1, Boeser's is 19.6, Hoglander's is 19.7, and Joshua's is 20.5. Miller's career average thus far is 14.9, Boeser's is 13.8, Hoglander's is 12.4, and Joshua's is 16.4. The caveat is Hoglander and Joshua have smaller sample sizes, so their inflated shooting percentages probably drive their averages up. Kuzmenko's shooting percentage in Vancouver this season was 12.7, in Calgary it's been 22.2. He had plenty of opportunity in Vancouver, for whatever reasons he's just been better in Calgary. Fewer guys ahead of him, increased powerplay time perhaps, but he certainly started the season with plenty of opportunity in Van. He's only averaged roughly a minute more in Calgary. https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kuzmean01.html Edited April 11 by Coconuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 7 hours ago, Thrago said: Lol someone did get fleeced it just wasn't Calgary. If it was an even trade, that would have been nice. Your knowledge is so strong ?Future is bright for you.You can apply for Canucks job,or you prefer Calgary? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern_Nuck Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 On 4/11/2024 at 11:33 AM, Coconuts said: Eh, it wasn't likely his norm either though. The real Kuzmenko is probably somewhere between last season's 39 goal scoring Kuzmenko and what we saw from him as a Canuck this season. He's probably more a player who's good for 20+ goals and 40+ points than a player who gets you 30-40 goals and 60-80 points. I don't think last season was a fluke, I think there's a better chance he simply peaked right away and had a lot of things go right for him. His shooting percentage was sky high and by season's end it was 27.3%. That was never going to be sustainable forever, regression was more likely. Hell, we probably see some similar regression from Miller and Boeser next season, possibly Hoglander and Joshua (if he's still here ) too. They likely won't fall off a cliff, and increased shot volume may mitigate some regression, but regression wouldn't be surprising. As of right now Miller's shooting percentage is 19.1, Boeser's is 19.6, Hoglander's is 19.7, and Joshua's is 20.5. Miller's career average thus far is 14.9, Boeser's is 13.8, Hoglander's is 12.4, and Joshua's is 16.4. The caveat is Hoglander and Joshua have smaller sample sizes, so their inflated shooting percentages probably drive their averages up. Kuzmenko's shooting percentage in Vancouver this season was 12.7, in Calgary it's been 22.2. He had plenty of opportunity in Vancouver, for whatever reasons he's just been better in Calgary. Fewer guys ahead of him, increased powerplay time perhaps, but he certainly started the season with plenty of opportunity in Van. He's only averaged roughly a minute more in Calgary. https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kuzmean01.html Kuzmenko is scoring at a 41 goal-pace over 82 games in Calgary . I’d say 40 goals/season is what someone should expect out of him as long as they don’t expect him to be an enforcer or a defensive specialist or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern_Nuck Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 On 4/11/2024 at 9:11 AM, D-Money said: He was talking about Kuzmenko If Kuz was ever worth a 1st+, it would have been his 40-goal first season. If Canucks were offered that, they would have taken it at the time. Now the cat is out of the bag with him. Teams know he’s barely worth his cap hit, let alone additional valuable assets on top of that. He’s on a .5 gpg pace for the flames. As long as a team is okay with his lousy +/- or they feel they could match a good D pairing with him or a good two way player to shelter his poor defensive game… they’ll pay for that 40 goals/70 points that he’s good for with the right coach for him. I don’t know why dude was thinking I was talking about Lindholm… but Dumb people only see Lindholm’s value as points or lack there of. I’ve played and seen enough hockey to know that he is highly valuable with his compete level for the puck and his clutch faceoffs, especially in the defensive zone with the game on the line. I think he(Lindholm) adds an element the Canucks were sorely lacking without him and it showed in the games he missed. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 41 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said: Kuzmenko is scoring at a 41 goal-pace over 82 games in Calgary . I’d say 40 goals/season is what someone should expect out of him as long as they don’t expect him to be an enforcer or a defensive specialist or something. We'll see how he does next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocanuck Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Im am still a bit sad about losing kuz,, sure lindholm is a nice player that hopefully has a great playoffs but it seems the coach in calgary has figured kuz out a bit. Puts him on the ice in offensive zone starts and plays him on the powerplay.. isnt trying to mold him into a two way player 14 points in 8 games. He is loved in that room as well. I know he wasnt RT type of player but i still hate to see talent leave the team, especially when he played with petey last year and was on the power play at least half the time, two facets that have struggled last 30 games or so. Hope the trade works for both teams and i do feel lindholm adds to what canucks needed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovocop55 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Those prospects and the 1st round pick will hurt more.. with lindholm most likely gone, that’s a horrible trade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HKSR Posted April 13 Popular Post Share Posted April 13 How can you guys already label this trade as a loss for the Canucks? 1. The season isn't over yet. Lindholm could still go on a tear in the playoffs and be a big part of the teams success. 2. The trade meant we have full flexibility this offseason with the $5.5M cap of Kuzmenko moved out. Even if Lindholm falters for the rest of this season and we let him walk, until we see what that $5.5M is used for, we don't have a clear picture. 3. If you recall, Kuzmenko spent more time on the 4th line and press box than anything else in Tocchet's system. It was either Kuzmenko goes or Tocchet goes. Kuzmenko had very little value (which is entirely different conversation). GMPA did what needed to be done and we have yet to see how this turns out (see #1 and #2 above). 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: How can you guys already label this trade as a loss for the Canucks? 1. The season isn't over yet. Lindholm could still go on a tear in the playoffs and be a big part of the teams success. 2. The trade meant we have full flexibility this offseason with the $5.5M cap of Kuzmenko moved out. Even if Lindholm falters for the rest of this season and we let him walk, until we see what that $5.5M is used for, we don't have a clear picture. 3. If you recall, Kuzmenko spent more time on the 4th line and press box than anything else in Tocchet's system. It was either Kuzmenko goes or Tocchet goes. Kuzmenko had very little value (which is entirely different conversation). GMPA did what needed to be done and we have yet to see how this turns out (see #1 and #2 above). not sure, 8 years of Benning muck up's maybe have trained people for the worst in every move? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: not sure, 8 years of Benning muck up's maybe have trained people for the worst in every move? Probably. It feels like PTSD for people lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ghostsof1915 Posted April 13 Popular Post Share Posted April 13 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: not sure, 8 years of Benning muck up's maybe have trained people for the worst in every move? Post Benning Traumatic Disorder. PBTD. 1 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 41 minutes ago, jovocop55 said: Those prospects and the 1st round pick will hurt more.. with lindholm most likely gone, that’s a horrible trade A guy who was scared to sign here cause Friedman might hold him back, a long shot and a yet to be drafted 20th OA+ pick? lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said: A guy who was scared to sign here cause Friedman might hold him back, a long shot and a yet to be drafted 20th OA+ pick? lol if we can ink Lindy to a reasonable extension that 20+ pick is a nothing burger. Might sting a little if in 4-5 years its a good player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 32 minutes ago, Bob Long said: if we can ink Lindy to a reasonable extension that 20+ pick is a nothing burger. Might sting a little if in 4-5 years its a good player. Not enough $$ to go around. Would still need to trade out Mik. I’m expecting Myers and Cole not to be re-signed. JR/PA need to put on their salary cap hat on this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) On 4/11/2024 at 11:15 AM, Thrago said: Lol someone did get fleeced it just wasn't Calgary. If it was an even trade, that would have been nice. If I ever need to trust someone to be patient, you're at the bottom of that list... actually, you're probably not even on that list. lol Have we forgotten that this trade was for the playoffs? Like sure, I get that Lindholm hasn't played the way we have hoped and he might not even come playoff time; however, the playoffs is a clean stale as everyone says. We won't know if we got fleeced until we're out of the playoffs, which could mean anything from a 1st round ousting to a stanley cup and everything in between. Giving up on a trade before the playoffs on a trade that was literally meant for the playoffs is nothing short of silly. I get that this fanbase will overreact every chance it will get but come on. Edited April 13 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 15 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: A guy who was scared to sign here cause Friedman might hold him back, a long shot and a yet to be drafted 20th OA+ pick? lol It could be the 32nd OA pick… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 14 hours ago, BPA said: Not enough $$ to go around. Would still need to trade out Mik. I’m expecting Myers and Cole not to be re-signed. JR/PA need to put on their salary cap hat on this summer. At $6 million it’s doable to re-sign Lindholm. Like you said if Mikheyev and Suter are traded and Myers and Cole walk. I’d do 6x8. But I think Boston is going to offer him 7x7 or even 8x7. We have a shot being able to offer him the extra year so the money is almost identical with a 6x8 and a 7x7. Maybe Boston doesn’t go as high as $8 million. Who knows… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: At $6 million it’s doable to re-sign Lindholm. Like you said if Mikheyev and Suter are traded and Myers and Cole walk. I’d do 6x8. But I think Boston is going to offer him 7x7 or even 8x7. We have a shot being able to offer him the extra year so the money is almost identical with a 6x8 and a 7x7. Maybe Boston doesn’t go as high as $8 million. Who knows… I want no part of a Lindholm extension. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been impressed by his defensive game, and am glad he’s on the team. But he’s not the player he was 2 years ago, and I suspect that’s age-related regression. I think whoever signs him will seriously regret it in 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillStrimma Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 2 hours ago, D-Money said: I want no part of a Lindholm extension. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been impressed by his defensive game, and am glad he’s on the team. But he’s not the player he was 2 years ago, and I suspect that’s age-related regression. I think whoever signs him will seriously regret it in 2-3 years. Yeah, as Miller regress huh… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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