[Trade] Canucks Acquire Elias Lindholm from Calgary for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st and Conditional 2024 4th

[Disgruntler]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:23 PM, DM_Ranger said:

What about Tyler Toffoli?  Last year at 4.25.  Devil's might be willing to sell as they are having a rough year, and we know he can play with our core.  He's on pace for 60 pts. 

Would need to be Kuz +______________ to make the money work.  

 

Doesn't he dry up in the playoffs?

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, awalk said:

I wouldn't sell low on Kuzmenko, but that's just me. If/when he gets going again, his skill is a critical for our top 6.

 

53 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

People keep saying this, but his value isn't going to go up. It'll only go down the further we move away from his 39 goal season. He's not a fit for the team and hasn't been a fit no matter what we've tried. They've been trying to get him going literally all year. I don't think there's this magical moment where things are going to click.

 

His shooting percentage had nowhere to go but down. He was likely never going to be a perennial 39 goal scorer IMO. He also seems to be an ill fit under Tochett's systems. Can he learn to play under them and be a ~25/25 guy? Maybe? But if you can move him and bring in a piece that's just as skilled and better fits the system...

[awalk]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

His shooting percentage had nowhere to go but down. He was likely never going to be a perennial 39 goal scorer IMO. He also seems to be an ill fit under Tochett's systems. Can he learn to play under them and be a ~25/25 guy? Maybe? But if you can move him and bring in a piece that's just as skilled and better fits the system...

 

Yeah I was saying they should trade him last year going into the deadline (although I was saying trade everyone, so it's not like I was onto something brilliant), but at this point I doubt they get anyone as skilled as him who is a better fit. If they can, great absolutely go for it. I'd think more likely it'd be a less skilled, more character guy with some upside. Like a Hodgson for Kassian type deal.

[BCNate]

We really only have 4 tradeable assets to open up space and not disrupt the team too much.  In order, I'd trade Mikheyev first, then Myers.  Kuzmenko and Zadorov I'd prefer to keep, but would be OK moving if we can upgrade significantly.  Add any combo of picks and prospect not named Lekkerimaki or WIllander and see what is out there.

[Coconuts]

39 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

His shooting percentage had nowhere to go but down. He was likely never going to be a perennial 39 goal scorer IMO. He also seems to be an ill fit under Tochett's systems. Can he learn to play under them and be a ~25/25 guy? Maybe? But if you can move him and bring in a piece that's just as skilled and better fits the system...

 

I was saying we should have sold him leading up to last seasons deadline, can't remember if you were as well.

 

The reality is that Kuzmenko may have simply peaked in season one, his shooting percentage was always going to have him regress, it wasn't going to be the norm forever.

 

Some folks want to cling to last season's Kuzmenko as that being the player he actually is, when realistically he's probably somewhere between this season's Kuzmenko and last season's Kuzmenko if given the right linemates, ice time, and placed within the right team systems. 

 

None of this is a knock on Kuzmenko, you don't score 39 without having skill, but that likely wasn't his norm. 

 

All this being said, teams around the league probably don't value him as a 39 goal scorer, his value probably isn't as high as some folks around here believe it is. Not after how this season has gone for him.

[AnthonyG]

Kuzmenko+Raty+2024 1st for Eriksson Ek

 

Ek has 5 years remaining after this season at 5.25mil. 
 

This is not the time for rentals, save the desperation rentals in the last years of contention. Lets aim for a deeper cost controlled core now and have a longer window of contention.

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, awalk said:

 

Yeah I was saying they should trade him last year going into the deadline (although I was saying trade everyone, so it's not like I was onto something brilliant), but at this point I doubt they get anyone as skilled as him who is a better fit. If they can, great absolutely go for it. I'd think more likely it'd be a less skilled, more character guy with some upside. Like a Hodgson for Kassian type deal.

Oh, we'd be adding.

[48MPHSlapshot]

41 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Kuzmenko+Raty+2024 1st for Eriksson Ek

 

Ek has 5 years remaining after this season at 5.25mil. 
 

This is not the time for rentals, save the desperation rentals in the last years of contention. Lets aim for a deeper cost controlled core now and have a longer window of contention.

Minny laughs and hangs up. Kuzmenko doesn't have much value, our 1st will most likely be very late, and Raty is B prospect. You're not getting a young, Selke caliber center locked up for 5 years on an absolute steal of a deal for that package. That's essentially the same value as what we got for Horvat, and Horvat was older, isn't nearly as good defensively, and was on an expiring deal and set to hit ufa status.

[arsenalian]

2 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I don't think JR is looking to do anything big guys. Like a piece or two added with no major pieces going

out. As to trading Zadorov or Kuzy I don't think its on the table. Like maybe just maybe I could see Kuzy

but no way to Zadorov. As to Kuz I just cannot see a GM trading an asset before you even know what

you have. Kuz has a really high ceiling and I dont think GR is going to trade Kuz until we have a complete

valuation on him. Is he a regular 30 goal guy or 50? There is huge difference in the possible return and 

besides I love the guys character. 

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of Tanev and one or two more support players. I would love to see

Jamie Ben come on this team. Imo it would be the perfect thing to gel it all together.

 

For me if Im GM:

 

Im taking a swing at getting Jamie Ben on this team Dallas would do it because the core is shifting. We 

could use his swagger and I think him and Miller would Gel with Boeser.

 

Im getting Tanev or Chychrun.

 

Then im hunting for 1 or two more checking/energy players. We need another rogue like Garland a Rutuu or 

Cooke type that can score and serve a role on the team. 

 

You call getting Benn, Tanev or Chychrun, plus a couple other guys, “nothing big”? Lol

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

2 hours ago, BPA said:

A brief check at the game logs showed Kuz still got 20g when Rick Tocchet was named head coach in Jan 2023.  

Who were Kuz linemates last year?

 

It was kinda telling tho that he benched Kuzz in the last game third period preventing him from getting 40 goals 

[BPA]

Just now, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

It was kinda telling tho that he benched Kuzz in the last game third period preventing him from getting 40 goals 

He has the same linemates and head coach (for the latter half of last season).  It’s astonishing that his production fell off a cliff.

[tas]

2 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I don't think JR is looking to do anything big guys. Like a piece or two added with no major pieces going

out. As to trading Zadorov or Kuzy I don't think its on the table. Like maybe just maybe I could see Kuzy

but no way to Zadorov. As to Kuz I just cannot see a GM trading an asset before you even know what

you have. Kuz has a really high ceiling and I dont think GR is going to trade Kuz until we have a complete

valuation on him. Is he a regular 30 goal guy or 50? There is huge difference in the possible return and 

besides I love the guys character. 

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of Tanev and one or two more support players. I would love to see

Jamie Ben come on this team. Imo it would be the perfect thing to gel it all together.

 

For me if Im GM:

 

Im taking a swing at getting Jamie Ben on this team Dallas would do it because the core is shifting. We 

could use his swagger and I think him and Miller would Gel with Boeser.

 

Im getting Tanev or Chychrun.

 

Then im hunting for 1 or two more checking/energy players. We need another rogue like Garland a Rutuu or 

Cooke type that can score and serve a role on the team. 

 

dallas, a stanley cup contender in third place in the west, is going to trade its captain?

[Hairy Kneel]

3 hours ago, Barn Burner said:

Keep in mind, Lindy is the Lames #1 C, 32 pts in 49 games, is a minus 8 and a UFA, who could walk and lose for nothing. 

 

We are not desperate. 

 

We shouldn't be selling the farm. 

A rental

[Barn Burner]

1 minute ago, Hairy Kneel said:

A rental

For a hell of a lot cheaper than what some folks around here are suggesting. 

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

5 minutes ago, BPA said:

He has the same linemates and head coach (for the latter half of last season).  It’s astonishing that his production fell off a cliff.

I wonder if it’s psychological somehow… He went to Bali?!?! to train and apparently the coaching staff was completely unhappy with this decision I wonder if that’s what kind of threw him off a bit and perhaps  his conditioning was way off… Who knows

 

Definitely wasn’t prepared for the season and he has sucked completely

[ronning4center]

17 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

Minny laughs and hangs up. Kuzmenko doesn't have much value, our 1st will most likely be very late, and Raty is B prospect. You're not getting a young, Selke caliber center locked up for 5 years on an absolute steal of a deal for that package. That's essentially the same value as what we got for Horvat, and Horvat was older, isn't nearly as good defensively, and was on an expiring deal and set to hit ufa status.

Also Minny simply isn't trading such a good player on a low value contract.  Soooo doesn't matter anyway.

[ronning4center]

2 minutes ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

I wonder if it’s psychological somehow… He went to Bali?!?! to train and apparently the coaching staff was completely unhappy with this decision I wonder if that’s what kind of threw him off a bit and perhaps  his conditioning was way off… Who knows

 

Definitely wasn’t prepared for the season and he has sucked completely

The bahli debaucle is 100 percent the issue.  No way in hell he got the training necessary and from what we know about tochett this is exactly what would piss him off.  Out of shape and feeling the heat.  Thats enough to ruin a year.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

Just now, ronning4center said:

The bahli debaucle is 100 percent the issue.  No way in hell he got the training necessary and from what we know about tochett this is exactly what would piss him off.  Out of shape and feeling the heat.  Thats enough to ruin a year.

Exactly what a complete fool… 

All that money.. new contract and all… 

 

the elevator doesn’t go to the top floor 

 

he isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer 

 

he’s a few short of a six pack

 

a few pages short of a chapter 

 

 

[QuinnNorris]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Kuzmenko+Raty+2024 1st for Eriksson Ek

 

Ek has 5 years remaining after this season at 5.25mil. 
 

This is not the time for rentals, save the desperation rentals in the last years of contention. Let’s aim for a deeper cost controlled core now and have a longer window of contention.

Best trade post I’ve read.  If Minny would do this?  Minny would have to feel they’re in the mucky middle and Erickson Ek doesn’t align with their future window.

Edited January 30 by QuinnNorris
Added context

[AnthonyG]

1 minute ago, QuinnNorris said:

Best trade post I’ve read.  If Minny would do this?

I’d be fine with adding if we had to to get this deal done. 
 

Management shoulda moved Kuzmenko last TDL for Hronek instead of Horvat for a round about way of acquiring Hronek. 
 

JT and Horvat as our 1-2 punch down the middle would have been so much better. Despite how great things have gone this season, our overall depth at C could be better.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

33 minutes ago, ronning4center said:

Also Minny simply isn't trading such a good player on a low value contract.  Soooo doesn't matter anyway.

 

Vancouver made Detroit trade a top defenseman whom they were not shopping, whom they were very happy with and by all accounts was not on the market either. Vancouver only simply needs to inquire and push the idea. Not out of the realm of possibility.

 

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Kuzmenko+Raty+2024 1st for Eriksson Ek

 

Ek has 5 years remaining after this season at 5.25mil. 
 

This is not the time for rentals, save the desperation rentals in the last years of contention. Lets aim for a deeper cost controlled core now and have a longer window of contention.

 

This is the exact mindset I hope the team has moving into the deadline, exception being if they land Lindholm as a key piece for their Playoff run. He is the type of player you need.

 

Vancouver could pry Eriksson-Ek from Minnesota, its not that far fetched.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

7 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I’d be fine with adding if we had to to get this deal done. 
 

Management shoulda moved Kuzmenko last TDL for Hronek instead of Horvat for a round about way of acquiring Hronek. 
 

JT and Horvat as our 1-2 punch down the middle would have been so much better. Despite how great things have gone this season, our overall depth at C could be better.

 

Kuzmenko was flirting with 40 goals in his first season in the NHL. They were right to keep him and extend him.

 

I may be in the minority here but I don't see the Canucks as under any pressure to trade Kuzmenko. They have invested in him and worked with him on his game. No he is never going to be that Selke winner but he is developing and growing his game to play a more consistent and reliable game. You can see it very incrementally over the season. If the Canucks can mold him into a reliable 20+? goal scorer then thats a win.

 

The team has time, is doing well and he may very well get there. Don't be surprised if he does not move.

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

Minny laughs and hangs up. Kuzmenko doesn't have much value, our 1st will most likely be very late, and Raty is B prospect. You're not getting a young, Selke caliber center locked up for 5 years on an absolute steal of a deal for that package. That's essentially the same value as what we got for Horvat, and Horvat was older, isn't nearly as good defensively, and was on an expiring deal and set to hit ufa status.

Aaaand then you look at Ek’s faceoffs compared to Horvats… it aint even remotely close. Horvat won nearly 300 more draws last year in all situations and had a 56.85FOW% with 1685 faceoffs taken. 1386 total for Ek and a sub 50 FOW%
38 goals vs 23

7 seasons over 20 goals vs 3

5 50+pt seasons vs 1

and make no mistake Horvats defensive game is not to be underestimated. 
Minny can also turn around retain 50% on Kuzmenko and ship his ass to a contender for an additional 1st and maybe a 2nd or 3rd. They are shortly headed for a rebuild. 

[AnthonyG]

11 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

Kuzmenko was flirting with 40 goals in his first season in the NHL. They were right to keep him and extend him.

 

I may be in the minority here but I don't see the Canucks as under any pressure to trade Kuzmenko. They have invested in him and worked with him on his game. No he is never going to be that Selke winner but he is developing and growing his game to play a more consistent and reliable game. You can see it very incrementally over the season. If the Canucks can mold him into a reliable 20+? goal scorer then thats a win.

 

The team has time, is doing well and he may very well get there. Don't be surprised if he does not move.

I was in the very small minority possibly only one last year who wasnt sold on Kuzmenko’s long term success/impact after a few games. His skating stood out to me immediately as his skill did to everyone else. His stride is short and choppy. To me thats a guy whos impact is going be short lived just due to age and slowing down.

[awalk]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Oh, we'd be adding.

 

Ah word

if that's what it takes to upgrade, all for it