[PGT] Blackhawks at Canucks

[Rekker]

28 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I actually think the leafs top players are pretty good defensively, it's just the all out offensively aggressive system they play that dooms them........that and the fact that they can't provide the needed depth and goaltending because of those top heavy contracts

I don't think so. Teams have too much space playing the Leafs. It's not natural for most of their top players so it's constantly something they need to think about. They can be better for times, but then fall back to their old habits. Coaches keep trying but tough to break old habits and for some players, it's hardly in their skill set, or not physically able.

[Rip The Mesh]

In the long run, I actually have no idea what's going to happen in regards to Kuzmenko's career, all I know is it will not be boring or conventual

 

 

Edited January 23 by Rip The Mesh

[stawns]

Just now, DSVII said:

 

We have a few folks on this team that have had cup runs with some of these on the list (Cole, Bleuger) Their experience will be valuable for us.

 

It will, no doubt.  But the core of the team hasn't, the guys that drive the bus.  And I'm certainly not saying they can't do it, they can, but history isn't on their side and, imo, they shouldn't be sacrificing their future for a first run through

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

Honestly, unless they can get a rental cheap, id prefer they just stand pat.  They've got a good team with great chemistry

I feel the same way. 

Trading Kuz seems for someone else seems like an unnecessary risk. Especially because I think Kuz has yet to reach his potential 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Not me  I want to see them go for it. 

 

Now, do I want to see them sell of our 1st, Ratu, Willander and Lekker? Only in some extreme case where we were getting talent back like Brady Tkachuk, more C depth and another stud d. 

 

Otherwise I'm OK with some smaller depth moves. 

 

I'm fine with depth moves and any pick aside from the first, unless it's a hronek kind of deal.  For me, that's not "all in" and I dont think you're going to get any significant piece without one of those pieces, imo.

[Jaimito]

1 hour ago, Rip The Mesh said:

It's not unlucky continuously blow your own horn, is it? Even if it's true?

 

 

And 29-0-1 leading after two.  Ian McIntyre mentioned that it's 59/60 pts.  When you look at it from that framing, it's no wonder they are among the top teams in NHL.  

[Strawbone]

It just occurred to me... the Canucks are atop the NHL standings, so doesn't that make them the best team in the World!?

[Jaimito]

Back to work. 

 

Revenge game vs Blues.  

 

My guess is Demko in again.   

 

 

 

 

[Blitz-Pix]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Not me  I want to see them go for it. 

 

Now, do I want to see them sell of our 1st, Ratu, Willander and Lekker? Only in some extreme case where we were getting talent back like Brady Tkachuk, more C depth and another stud d. 

 

Otherwise I'm OK with some smaller depth moves. 

 

I think smaller depth moves could make us better, it might push some of our better offensive players like Hoglander into a top 6 role.

Adding depth players with playoff expierence also makes us stronger when guys get banged up in playoffs. IMO

 

Edited January 23 by Blitz-Pix

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

6 hours ago, spook007 said:

You're damn right I am... I was so pleased to see him smile ad play with a spring in his step... 

His future may be in Vancouver or it may be somewhere else, but glad to see his tough love from Tocchet hasn't broken him.

Tocchet may actually know, what he is doing.... who would have known...

 

He is definitely the joker in the pack, and you definitely could see, how much he is loved by his team mates.... 

All teams need a boy to lift the mood, and there is zero doubt banana and Pepsi boy is one of those...

 

Go Kuz Go

FIFY

[Bob Long]

27 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

We have a few folks on this team that have had cup runs with some of these on the list (Cole, Bleuger) Their experience will be valuable for us.

 

Not to mention the coaches.

[Smashian Kassian]

58 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I actually think the leafs top players are pretty good defensively, it's just the all out offensively aggressive system they play that dooms them........that and the fact that they can't provide the needed depth and goaltending because of those top heavy contracts

 

Marner is very good. The other 2 are so-so. Nylander in particular is prone to bring way too soft on defensive plays 

 

[stawns]

This popped up on my FB feed.  Most of those deals would be a hard no for me, but a couple, focused on picks, weren't as bad.  I still don't think giving up the first for a rental is a good idea

 

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/2024/01/22/11743-calgary-flames-lindholm/?fbclid=IwAR02kNUX_5DPk4wW9JWIckodgkN9KYrdpSc8ygctxsN1KiYm3fMsa6vibdA#

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

I actually think the leafs top players are pretty good defensively, it's just the all out offensively aggressive system they play that dooms them........that and the fact that they can't provide the needed depth and goaltending because of those top heavy contracts

It's the old Pens model though that JR had some measure of success with (a Cup).  When a complementary player got too valuable or expensive, they were dealt for someone cheaper (eg., the Bonino for Sutter trade).  And when Bonino's play priced himself out of their cap structure, he was dealt.  Same later with McCann.  It worked because the top heavy contract player produced.  Never worked for the Leafs because two of the three (M&M) have been no shows in their post season.

[JamesB]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

As much as we've thrown Kuzmenko in the trade proposals here and there, you've got to wonder what a big trade like that would do for this team chemistry and morale.

...

TDL trades can make or break a playoff run and there's something to be said about the tight chemistry in our locker-room right now, and a lot of that comes from Kuzmenko.

 

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Bluger is a coming UFA and Suter has another year at a great cap allocation. Monnohands isn’t an upgrade on either. Lindholm would be. 

 

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Honestly, unless they can get a rental cheap, id prefer they just stand pat.  They've got a good team with great chemistry

 

Good points. One additional point. The Canucks did well in acquiring quality UFAs on short-term reasonable contracts (Suter, Blueger, Cole) but I think there is an implicit rule that if those guys are happy and playing at or above expectations and the team is in playoff territory, they won't get traded.  Violating that rule makes it harder to sign guys like that in the future. So that is another reason why trading Suter or Blueger (or Cole) would likely be a mistake.

 

Also, both Suter and Blueger are great value for their cap hits. They add a lot to the team and they play Tocchet hockey.

 

And I agree that I would not trade Kuzy. He is a talented player who has been playing well recently. He has rebuilt his game with the help of intensive coaching. We want to get the benefit of that, not "sell low" by trading him now. He is a guy you might pick up for a stretch run, not a guy you want to trade. A resurgent Kuzy would be more valuable than any feasible rental.

 

The rental most people are thinking about is a good 2C-dropping Suter to the 4th line and moving Aman to the "13th" man category. That would probably require that the other team retain the maximum (50%) and, even then, there are not many guys who are good enough to justify the trade and cheap enough to fit under the cap.

 

The other possibility is breaking up the lotto line and getting a good top 6 forward with Miller and Petey as centers on the top two lines again.

 

If something good is out there, great. But I would be very careful and very selective.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

It's the old Pens model though that JR had some measure of success with (a Cup).  When a complementary player got too valuable or expensive, they were dealt for someone cheaper (eg., the Bonino for Sutter trade).  And when Bonino's play priced himself out of their cap structure, he was dealt.  Same later with McCann.  It worked because the top heavy contract player produced.  Never worked for the Leafs because two of the three (M&M) have been no shows in their post season.

 

That's how od operate as well........which is bad news for Petey I guess

[Blitz-Pix]

 

As a medium size trade,

 

I wonder if something like Adam Henrique (with retention) for our 1st and a prospect (Kirill or Mynio) would get it done?

 

Henrique is a .62 PPG center (on a very bad team). If I had to nitpick he's a Left handed center as opposed to a righty.

He turns 34 next month though and I'm not sure how fast he is anymore. He seems like a RT kind of player though. 

 

 

Edited January 23 by Blitz-Pix

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

 

 

Good points. One additional point. The Canucks did well in acquiring quality UFAs on short-term reasonable contracts (Suter, Blueger, Cole) but I think there is an implicit rule that if those guys are happy and playing at or above expectations and the team is in playoff territory, they won't get traded.  Violating that rule makes it harder to sign guys like that in the future. So that is another reason why trading Suter or Blueger (or Cole) would likely be a mistake.

 

Also, both Suter and Blueger are great value for their cap hits. They add a lot to the team and they play Tocchet hockey.

 

And I agree that I would not trade Kuzy. He is a talented player who has been playing well recently. He has rebuilt his game with the help of intensive coaching. We want to get the benefit of that, not "sell low" by trading him now. He is a guy you might pick up for a stretch run, not a guy you want to trade. A resurgent Kuzy would be more valuable than any feasible rental.

 

The rental most people are thinking about is a good 2C-dropping Suter to the 4th line and moving Aman to the "13th" man category. That would probably require that the other team retain the maximum (50%) and, even then, there are not many guys who are good enough to justify the trade and cheap enough to fit under the cap.

 

The other possibility is breaking up the lotto line and getting a good top 6 forward with Miller and Petey as centers on the top two lines again.

 

If something good is out there, great. But I would be very careful and very selective.

 

That's a tough call because aman has been sneaky good this year.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

As a medium size trade,

 

I wonder if something like Adam Henrique (with retention) for our 1st and a prospect (Kirill or Mynio) would get it done?

 

Henrique is a .62 PPG center (on a very bad team) with lots of playoff experience. If I had to nitpick he's a Left handed center as opposed to a righty.

He turns 34 next month though and I'm not sure how fast he is anymore. He seems like a RT kind of player though. 

 

 

 

He was my choice because I think he'd fit well with kuz and mik.  

[HorvatToBaertschi]

54 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Bos

NYR

Oilers

TB

Col

Vegas

Car

Fla

 

Teams that have built perennial contenders and know what it takes to win.  That's not to say a Cinderella team like Van or Win can't win it, but id certainly put my money on a team that knows what it takes to go on a deep run

 

 

You did NOT just put Edmonton in that group and then make that statement 

[Blitz-Pix]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He was my choice because I think he'd fit well with kuz and mik.  

 

I like the trade-in that it's an upgrade, but we don't gut our prospect pool in the process

Might mean having to send Aman to the minors until the playoffs though.

Edited January 23 by Blitz-Pix

[Bob Long]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

This popped up on my FB feed.  Most of those deals would be a hard no for me, but a couple, focused on picks, weren't as bad.  I still don't think giving up the first for a rental is a good idea

 

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/2024/01/22/11743-calgary-flames-lindholm/?fbclid=IwAR02kNUX_5DPk4wW9JWIckodgkN9KYrdpSc8ygctxsN1KiYm3fMsa6vibdA#

 

Very late first hopefully. 

[PhillipBlunt]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

This popped up on my FB feed.  Most of those deals would be a hard no for me, but a couple, focused on picks, weren't as bad.  I still don't think giving up the first for a rental is a good idea

 

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/2024/01/22/11743-calgary-flames-lindholm/?fbclid=IwAR02kNUX_5DPk4wW9JWIckodgkN9KYrdpSc8ygctxsN1KiYm3fMsa6vibdA#

Agreed. Even though the Canucks are now in the upper echelon of the NHL, giving up great prospects or high draft picks for a player that will amount to nothing more than a rental seems questionable.

[stawns]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Very late first hopefully. 

 

Still not insignificant for a team still trying to accrue good young assets.

[stawns]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Agreed. Even though the Canucks are now in the upper echelon of the NHL, giving up great prospects or high draft picks for a player that will amount to nothing more than a rental seems questionable.

 

That's the TO model.......sacrificing 1st rounders for rentals, then failing.  Their org is in serious trouble once this phase has passed......I'd hate to see that happen, again, in Van.  It took a decade to build back up after the last time they went all in and failed.