Speculation- Hughes wanting Canucks to trade for Tanev

[Coryberg]

3 hours ago, ngoway said:

 

Probably about right since Raty is only 21. If he needs another year, that's okay too.

 

Blueger is likely still a stop gap for this year and maybe a few years if he's willing to sign on a good contract. That 3C spot though is definitely for Raty as long as he continues to develop.

Suter can take that spot for next season.

[WHL rocks]

4 hours ago, WiDeN said:

Wouldn't Hoglander fit that assignment? 

No, he's not good enough defensively to be able to play top 6 in playoffs vs top notch competition..

 

He often makes mistakes and throws the puck towards middle of ice risking turn overs..

 

Maybe next year playoffs he'll be ready for that role.. 

[TopChed]

12 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Basically once Benning renewed Green. I knew it was over.

I don't see a huge difference the way Tocc coaches from the way Green coached. It's been a journey of learning for the players. Green lost the room when JB lost the room. after the I ran out of time debacle. That's when it was over. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 minutes ago, TopChed said:

I don't see a huge difference the way Tocc coaches from the way Green coached. It's been a journey of learning for the players. Green lost the room when JB lost the room. after the I ran out of time debacle. That's when it was over. 

What makes them similar in your mind?

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

 

It's not a "sure" answer. I wouldn't be saying this if I couldn't back it up.

 

Here's Desjardin's record

 

 

Here's Green's record

 

 

Desjardins had one clear winning season before falling off tremendously. Gillis was still around and it was clear that he was floundering as a GM post-Sedins. Desjardins overplayed players like Megna and Chaput, which is arguably a reflection of the pro scouting and our prospect pool at this time. These players were simply better than all the prospects we had in the system. Yikes.

 

Meanwhile, Green had the luxury to pick and choose his players every year. Benning actually accommodated those trades, whether that was right or not. For all the faults that Benning had as a trading GM, at least part of it falls on Green.

 

You can't blame Benning without blaming Green, but you can blame Benning for keeping Green. Green had shown absolutely nothing to justify extending him as a head coach, which was Benning did. Oops.

 

lol, your literally proving my point.   The expectation, that somehow, with a shit roster, we were supposed to be a good team during the fallout of the Sedin era.    Look at WD's record!   The team was still working with guys like Burrows, Bieksa and Hansen then.    It was of course on MG and JB, but expecting any coach, to have done much better is simply goofy.    

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, TopChed said:

I don't see a huge difference the way Tocc coaches from the way Green coached. It's been a journey of learning for the players. Green lost the room when JB lost the room. after the I ran out of time debacle. That's when it was over. 

Yes.   They had a decent roster for one season.  Covid wasn't exactly a cakewalk either.   No more excuses, sure.   Let's just be thankful the core worked out and Allvin is fixing the messes.   Personally don't think it would have mattered who was coaching then.    And that Green will get another shot at some point too.   He's young enough.    NJ hired him.    Well respected in the coaching community.    And well at least we had the bubble.    That team was mediocre.     Not a cup contender.    Bruce didn't have an easy go of it either.   Lost the room?  Not at all, players loved him.    Green lost the room for sure.   

[N4ZZY]

14 hours ago, ngoway said:

 

I'd say the team is more in need of a true first or second pairing defensemen as opposed to another top 6 forward.

 

We're also very limited in cap space, and would be wise to not spend too many of our future assets. I'm much more comfortable with our top 6 forwards as opposed to the gap on the second defensive pair.

 

Who knows what management will do, but my guess is a defensemen and maybe a depth forward for the bottom 6

I personally don't think they're going to go and get another difference maker for the roster. I think from here on out to the deadline, it'll be tweaking the roster, especially the defense. I'm also not certain what to make of the Zadorov rumours. Like where did that come? It doesn't make any sense to trade him and bring in a new guy with about 30 odd games remaing, and allowing that new player to get acclimated and used to the new system he'd have to learn under Tocc. I get the feeling, though, it could be contractual reasons for why Zadorov rumours are out there. 

 

[Bob Long]

22 hours ago, Alflives said:

Desjardins was a Benning hire, no? Gillis, GM of our most successful clubs ever, was already gone. 

 

I had a nice discussion once with Willie D when I lived in the olympic village. Very very nice man. 

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes.   They had a decent roster for one season.  Covid wasn't exactly a cakewalk either.   No more excuses, sure.   Let's just be thankful the core worked out and Allvin is fixing the messes.   Personally don't think it would have mattered who was coaching then.    And that Green will get another shot at some point too.   He's young enough.    NJ hired him.    Well respected in the coaching community.    And well at least we had the bubble.    That team was mediocre.     Not a cup contender.    Bruce didn't have an easy go of it either.   Lost the room?  Not at all, players loved him.    Green lost the room for sure.   

I agree that Green lost the room for sure. Will he get another coaching opportunity? Well, he's an assistant in NJ, right? So obviously an organization and other coaches still believe in his ability to coach in the NHL. The way the team was playing in front of Green at that time, boy, you could tell the writing was on the wall. Benning's mismanagement, and misquotes. Even though he ran out of time, he should never have said that in public. Not sure what he was thinking when he said that. Consumer belief probably died the day he said that. 

 

[N4ZZY]

11 hours ago, Johngould21 said:

I was at the Abby game Friday, Raty is no where near Blueger  level, this year or next.

Is he not progressing? 

 

[N4ZZY]

10 hours ago, Combover said:

Once Benning said “ I think we can turn this around quickly” I knew he was an idiot and we were screwed and In for years of stupid.

what did JB get for tanev again…. I still laugh thinking about all those that defended his every blunder. 

 

it'll be interesting to see if tanev wants to return to van in the off-season.

I think if they pa/jr were going to trade for him they would have by now.
unless whatever they offered stands and is better than what others are will to move in the next few weeks. 

PA JR seem to set a price or payment and stick to it don’t get caught up in the  auction winner mentality. 

 

. 

 

To be fair, I didn't think PA and JR could turn this team around that quickly where we became Cup Contenders. Nobody pegged this team to be that at the beginning of the season. Not even the 'hockey experts'. 

 

Now, what Benning did - he actually said that he could turn it around quickly. I don't ever remember JR or PA saying that publicly. And there, I think, lies the difference. 

 

[Johngould21]

15 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Is he not progressing? 

 

Friday he wasn’t very noticeable, as I said, Bains, Podz, and McWard were. If he’s going to be an NHL Center, winning face offs at the AHL should be a given. Mind you Abby wasn’t good on the dot all that night.

[PureQuickness]

31 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

To be fair, I didn't think PA and JR could turn this team around that quickly where we became Cup Contenders. Nobody pegged this team to be that at the beginning of the season. Not even the 'hockey experts'. 

 

Now, what Benning did - he actually said that he could turn it around quickly. I don't ever remember JR or PA saying that publicly. And there, I think, lies the difference. 

 

 

During the press confey when JR and Allvin were hired, they said and I am paraphrasing here: they would be close to being a playoff team after a few good moves. They were wrong though. The team was near last place that following season.

[Attila Umbrus]

18 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

Friday he wasn’t very noticeable, as I said, Bains, Podz, and McWard were. If he’s going to be an NHL Center, winning face offs at the AHL should be a given. Mind you Abby wasn’t good on the dot all that night.

 

He has been pretty good at faceoffs through the year in my opinion. He's back playing center and it seems like when he's playing that position he focuses more on defense then offence. It's hard playing center and covering for your wingers, you gotta think more than normal. I think when he plays wing he can see the offensive side of the ice better and starts to be more effective offensively. Hopefully he can round out his game at center and start producing more offensively, but if he doesn't he still has IMO very good defensive tendencies to be an NHL 4th line center and grow into a 3 C spot after a few years of NHL experience. 

 

That's about all i've seen from him so far. 3 C tops, nothing more than that. Nothing screams top 6 player to me in him. And that's ok.

[PureQuickness]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

lol, your literally proving my point.   The expectation, that somehow, with a shit roster, we were supposed to be a good team during the fallout of the Sedin era.    Look at WD's record!   The team was still working with guys like Burrows, Bieksa and Hansen then.    It was of course on MG and JB, but expecting any coach, to have done much better is simply goofy.    

 

It's not proving your point at all.

 

It was clear after Gillis that we had nothing left in the barn. We had next to no exciting prospects (except Shinkaruk). WD somehow managed to squeak one good year in his roster, but it's shocking that the win percentage for WD mirrors Green's, despite the amount of crap in his rosters. Green for starters had Pettersson AND HUGHES later on. WD didn't have such a luxury. We still didn't have much change in terms of winning though. The record speaks for itself about Green.

Edited February 4 by PureQuickness

[DeNiro]

32 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

During the press confey when JR and Allvin were hired, they said and I am paraphrasing here: they would be close to being a playoff team after a few good moves. They were wrong though. The team was near last place that following season.

Then maybe they hadn’t made a few good moves yet?

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I had a nice discussion once with Willie D when I lived in the olympic village. Very very nice man. 

Willie D and Jim Benning definitely present as decent and nice folk. Allvin, JR, and Gillis seem the opposite. And look at which lead their clubs to success. Just want us to be tops in the league again like when Gillis was GM. If that means we have prickly pears leading the charge, then so be it. 

[Alflives]

26 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Then maybe they hadn’t made a few good moves yet?

Yup. They needed to move out Horfat Wallet and OELevator and change the culture. 

[PureQuickness]

23 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Then maybe they hadn’t made a few good moves yet?

 

My point was that when they took over the team, JR used the "minor surgery" term to describe the team. Their first full season, the group floundered, so that's on them for misreading the team's progress badly.

 

Now I will credit Rutherford in stating that he was disappointed in his performance. AND I will credit that he was right the next time that the team would be a playoff team if everything went well (this was in 2022).

 

 

[DeNiro]

10 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

My point was that when they took over the team, JR used the "minor surgery" term to describe the team. Their first full season, the group floundered, so that's on them for misreading the team's progress badly.

 

Now I will credit Rutherford in stating that he was disappointed in his performance. AND I will credit that he was right the next time that the team would be a playoff team if everything went well (this was in 2022).

 

 

You assume minor surgery could be done in half a year? Maybe that’s your fault.

[steviewonder20]

1 hour ago, Attila Umbrus said:

 

He has been pretty good at faceoffs through the year in my opinion. He's back playing center and it seems like when he's playing that position he focuses more on defense then offence. It's hard playing center and covering for your wingers, you gotta think more than normal. I think when he plays wing he can see the offensive side of the ice better and starts to be more effective offensively. Hopefully he can round out his game at center and start producing more offensively, but if he doesn't he still has IMO very good defensive tendencies to be an NHL 4th line center and grow into a 3 C spot after a few years of NHL experience. 

 

That's about all i've seen from him so far. 3 C tops, nothing more than that. Nothing screams top 6 player to me in him. And that's ok.

Now that we have quality D prospects (finally), it would be nice to have better quality C prospects than Raty. Problem is they usually go top 5 or so. This year we have no 1st or 2nd round picks and we lose our 3rd round pick if we make the western final. Hopefully, they can find good C prospects in 2025 if they trade someone for cap and picks next year. 

[Attila Umbrus]

29 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

Now that we have quality D prospects (finally), it would be nice to have better quality C prospects than Raty. Problem is they usually go top 5 or so. This year we have no 1st or 2nd round picks and we lose our 3rd round pick if we make the western final. Hopefully, they can find good C prospects in 2025 if they trade someone for cap and picks next year. 

 

We have a few others below Raty, but all are trending at 4th line C's or replacement level C's like Aman. Not very sexy I agree. One thing JR and co do well is load up on what they are lacking at the draft table. Last year it was all defense. This year I can see them scouting/drafting Centers and goalies.

 

Unfortunately after Silovs our goaltending prospects have not performed as well lately. Even Silovs hasn't looked great this year. Although we do have Demko locked up for a long time so there may be less of a rush in that department. But it takes so long to develop goalies in my opinion you always gotta be taking a swing at some in the draft later in the rounds. You never know what you may find.

[Boudrias]

On 2/2/2024 at 1:08 PM, VegasCanuck said:

It's "possible" but I think we're already seeing Tanev diminish a little. He's playing top 4D in Calgary, 19:40 per night, he's focused as a penalty killer.

 

Weegar: 22:14 per night average, 1:44 PP, 1:60 SH

Andersson 24:14 per night, 2:48 PP, 2:01 SH

Hanifin 23:30 per night, 1:36 PP, 2:17 SH

Tanev 19:40 per night, 0:04 PP, 2:39 SH

 

That's where he ranks in Calgary. He's only once completed a full 82 game season and that was in 2021-22. He played 65 games last year, 82 in 21/22, 56 in 20/21, 69 in 19/20 (yes, shorter season) and 55 in 18/19.

 

He's not going to become "more effective" over the next few years.

 

I would really love to see him back here, as long as the deal makes sense overall, including an extension. The style of game he plays, it takes a toll. I think there is a fairly substantial chance that he starts to really experience performance drop off.

 

My guess is, he adds all teams who are completely out of the playoff picture to his 10 team list as this season might be his last chance at a cup. He's only been in the playoffs 5 times across his career.

 

 

I just cannot see Tanev back in Van. How can the Canucks risk his injury history on any deal that costs them a lot? He is a UFA this summer and will likely want a 3 year deal to finish his career. Canucks can't give him that. Would Calgary retain on his contract when they likely have other deals brewing which require that CAP space? I doubt it. Does Van even have $2 mil in CAP space? Don't think so. 

[Dom]

The Flames claimed Brayden Pachal today, who is definitely a Tanev replacement. Keep an eye out for a trade within the week. 

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I personally don't think they're going to go and get another difference maker for the roster. I think from here on out to the deadline, it'll be tweaking the roster, especially the defense. I'm also not certain what to make of the Zadorov rumours. Like where did that come? It doesn't make any sense to trade him and bring in a new guy with about 30 odd games remaing, and allowing that new player to get acclimated and used to the new system he'd have to learn under Tocc. I get the feeling, though, it could be contractual reasons for why Zadorov rumours are out there. 

 

 

Zadorov is the 7th d in my mind. He probably has high contract demands which is why he was rumored to being shopped.