Speculation- Hughes wanting Canucks to trade for Tanev

[Jester13]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Agreed, and that's why I look at teams like Boston, Colorado, Tampa etc that always seem to manage to be the cream of the crop and, for me, it's because they understand the value of being able to turn over your roster from within.

It also has a lot - if not most - to do with the structure they play with. It allows them to bring up their internal depth and have them perform much better, similar to how our depth is thriving this year with new structure. I could see next year Bains, Podz, Raty, etc doing very well under this new system - much better, at least, than when we had other coaches.

[5forFighting]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

It also has a lot - if not most - to do with the structure they play with. It allows them to bring up their internal depth and have them perform much better, similar to how our depth is thriving this year with new structure. I could see next year Bains, Podz, Raty, etc doing very well under this new system - much better, at least, than when we had other coaches.

I think Bains is the only one who is a Toc type of player. His motor never stops. The other two fall closer to Kuz who we know falls out of favour too often. Lots of skill, not enough motor. 

[MeanSeanBean]

58 minutes ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

Sid would take this group to the next level we can't even fathom.  Back the truck up for him, PA!

 

More like Sundin than Messier me thinks but with tons of gas left in that ol' V12!

The twins used to talk about how much Sundin helped them reach the next level through his mentor ship. I could see Sid doing the same for Petey and Hughes.

 

Who better to learn from then one of the best?

[tas]

36 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Agreed, and that's why I look at teams like Boston, Colorado, Tampa etc that always seem to manage to be the cream of the crop and, for me, it's because they understand the value of being able to turn over your roster from within.

they still make meaningful deadline adds though. 

[stawns]

17 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

I think Bains is the only one who is a Toc type of player. His motor never stops. The other two fall closer to Kuz who we know falls out of favour too often. Lots of skill, not enough motor. 

 

You think so?  Raty is probably the best or second best two player in Abby.  Both he and Bains are ridiculously cerebral players who can see the game a couple of steps ahead.

 

People may be down on Raty a bit based on numbers, but his shift by shift play is fantastic and not something you can quantify, imo.  

 

And podz isn't too far behind.........all three are understand the game in all three zones at an NHL, imo.  You can throw Karlsson in there too.  If I'm PA, those are guys I'm not moving

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Pretty sure they would want  want 2 of 3 1st rnd picks over the next 3 years.

and at least one of , lettermaki, Dman Petterson , Willander ,  Brushcevisch,.  
Silovs , Koskenvuo.

 

Crosby on the right team  ,  would inject another level of game play ,  and bring another level of leadership to the group that would refresh his own play and raise others to there best potential.

 

2 years for one of the most prolific NHL players in the history of the game,.  Who still has high level  game in him, on a team rising rapidly..    a have profound effect on a team like Vancouver for the next decade.

 

I'd do something like Kuzmenko, Punky Brewster and our next two firsts, for Crosby with retention to make the cap work, in a heart beat. 

 

That said, I still think it's a unicorn like long shot to come in to reality.

 

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

lol.  You shouldn't.    From 23-36, their stats aren't much different.    Messier was a lot rougher along the edges, and a lot tougher too, but he was probably faster, and had mad skills himself.    In the dead puck era, he scored 84, and 99 points before signing with us, at age 35 and 36.   His shit didn't stink back then, same as Crosby's doesn't now.      If you watched him play you know what I mean.   Sucked that his ego was too big for the room.     Messier was one of the very best (like Crosby) to ever play the game though.    It truly wouldn't be much different as far as the player goes, if we got him now ... the only difference is, we didn't watch Crosby beat us in the final a few years ago, crossheck Momesso like he was trying to break his back, and all of that (not even getting into the Linden game six stuff).     Aside from Vancouver fans, Messier is still revered around the league.   It's our cross to bear for sure.     Messier not a "lead by example"... I watched every 1989-1990

game.    Nobody thought they could do it without Gretzky.   Messier was a lot like Howe, just played center instead.   Did it all.     Was such a disappointment in Vancouver.    All he did, was skate fast circles from blue line to blue line.   Watched  a lot of games live back then.    

 

ENTIRELY different personalities though which is a pretty important distinction given it wasn't so much Messier's ability here that was the issue.

 

2 hours ago, Reznor said:

Sorry, but I don't think that is what would or should happen. 

 

I feel that if we were to get Tanev back, he immediately slots in with Huggy. This allows Hronek to be the offensive presence on the 2nd pairing, meaning that we can have backend pressure applied the vast majority of the time 5 on 5. I suspect Hronek would still man the 1PP unit with Hughes, but to me, this is a better 5 on 5 setup:

Hughes Tanev
Soucy Hronek

Zadorov Myers
Cole
Juulsen

Now, I realize this means that we have Cole on the bench with everyone healthy. That's brutally poor use of a 3m player. But if history is anything to consider, we can almost guarantee at least one of these guys will be injured either come playoffs, or especially during playoffs. To have an A+ 3rd pairing defenceman in Cole waiting in the wings to fill the vacated position means we can continue without THAT much of a detriment to our defensive corps. 

In addition, we can assume that we would want to re-sign Tanev aftewards and not just use him as a rental. Assuming that occurs, it most likely means that Cole is gone, and his salary gets put towards that of Tanev so it isn't like after this season it costs us a lot more to make this move.

I think it's a good move all around - as long as the price to acquire is reasonable.

 

Move Myers, play Cole.

 

Hughes, Tanev

Soucy/Cole, Hronek

Zadorov, Soucy/Cole

 

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

Agreed, they'd be better off addressing their second line whether that be via adding a center or a wing 

 

When healthy I'd say our D is less of a concern at this point

 

Tanev, while a solid addition, would probably be a luxury 

 

As much as I'd love Tanev for this year's playoff run... Pretty much this. A 2C and/or winger replacement for Kuzmenko are larger priorities and I wouldn't be overspending futures to add Tanev. As you say, for a reasonable acquisition cost, he'd be a really nice luxury add.

 

If nothing else, I hope we have a shot at him this summer as a UFA though.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, tas said:

they still make meaningful deadline adds though. 

 

They do, because they built up the org depth to do so.  Vancouver is on that path, but isnt there yet.  

 

And I know we love to pin that on JB and his last couple of years bear that out, but he had to rebuild from absolutely nothing and that was always going to be a decade+ mess to clean up.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd do something like Kuzmenko, Punky Brewster and our next two firsts, for Crosby with retention to make the cap work, in a heart beat. 

 

That said, I still think it's a unicorn like long shot to come in to reality.

 

 

ENTIRELY different personalities though which is a pretty important distinction given it wasn't so much Messier's ability here that was the issue.

 

 

Move Myers, play Cole.

 

Hughes, Tanev

Soucy/Cole, Hronek

Zadorov, Soucy/Cole

 

 

As much as I'd love Tanev for this year's playoff run... Pretty much this. A 2C and/or winger replacement for Kuzmenko are larger priorities and I wouldn't be overspending futures to add Tanev. As you say, for a reasonable acquisition cost, he'd be a really nice luxury add.

 

If nothing else, I hope we have a shot at him this summer as a UFA though.

 

I think Tanev coming back as a UFA is much more likely, if only because we'll have had cap come off the books and perhaps had an easier time unloading cap. 

 

Would be easier to move a cap hit like Garland out when points aren't currently on the line for other teams. Just overall more flex in the offseason. At that time we'll presumably know what we're paying Pettersson and Hronek too. 

 

Right now he's a luxury, and as much as folks say we need to address this or that, most teams aren't going to have surplus depth at all positions within the constraints of the salary cap system. It's just not realistic. Teams have to really hone in on what their biggest weakness is, right now it seems pretty obvious that that's our second line. 

[aGENT]

48 minutes ago, tas said:

this is kind of my thing. I don't think I've used the phrase "all in" but for me it's sort of implied that jr and pa aren't going to make any stupid moves. I'm trusting their track record and that they aren't going to screw the team. so when I say they should push their chips in, it's with the understanding that it's with the qualifiers of a) not making a dumb overpayment, b) keeping an eye to the long-term, c) not upsetting chemistry, and d) not making a trade for for the sake of making a trade. 

 

This. Let's assume that our management, who've shown to be QUITE competent thus far, aren't going to spend a first, Willander and Kuzmenko on expiring Tanev. 

 

For a reasonable acquisition cost, he'd be a VERY solid add and give us a leg up on extending him/be a perfect stop gap for Willander to ease in to the lineup over the next few seasons. If nothing else, I hope he comes home this summer as a UFA.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd do something like Kuzmenko, Punky Brewster and our next two firsts, for Crosby with retention to make the cap work, in a heart beat. 

 

That said, I still think it's a unicorn like long shot to come in to reality.

 

 

ENTIRELY different personalities though which is a pretty important distinction given it wasn't so much Messier's ability here that was the issue.

 

 

Move Myers, play Cole.

 

Hughes, Tanev

Soucy/Cole, Hronek

Zadorov, Soucy/Cole

 

 

As much as I'd love Tanev for this year's playoff run... Pretty much this. A 2C and/or winger replacement for Kuzmenko are larger priorities and I wouldn't be overspending futures to add Tanev. As you say, for a reasonable acquisition cost, he'd be a really nice luxury add.

 

If nothing else, I hope we have a shot at him this summer as a UFA though.

 

As much as I've lobbied them to shit or get off the pot with Kuz, I think that ship has sailed for this season.  He's clearly loved by his teammates and messing with chemistry at that scale, at this point of an amazing season seems very unwise to me.

 

Furthermore, he's at an absolute low, value wise and teams know that and they'll be giving away a 39 goal scorer for nothing.  

 

RT needs to make an adjustment in his own style, leave his ginourmous ego at the door and figure out how to deal with Kuz the best way, not the Tocchet way.  Then, in the off season, move him.

[tas]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

They do, because they built up the org depth to do so.  Vancouver is on that path, but isnt there yet.  

 

And I know we love to pin that on JB and his last couple of years bear that out, but he had to rebuild from absolutely nothing and that was always going to be a decade+ mess to clean up.

I'm not a classic anti-jb guy (or travis green, for that matter). I could always see benning's plan, even when it didn't always get executed as intended, up until the summer after the bubble. he became so determined to overhaul the defense and got so locked on to oel that he got tunnel vision.  

[Rusty Shackleford]

24 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

The twins used to talk about how much Sundin helped them reach the next level through his mentor ship. I could see Sid doing the same for Petey and Hughes.

 

Who better to learn from then one of the best?

 

Bingo.  We became an elite team after Sundin joined the fold.  

 

Also, loved watching that Demitra - Sundin - Kesler line.  What a treat that was.  He also helped Kes get to another level.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think Tanev coming back as a UFA is much more likely, if only because we'll have had cap come off the books and perhaps had an easier time unloading cap. 

 

Would be easier to move a cap hit like Garland out when points aren't currently on the line for other teams. Just overall more flex in the offseason. At that time we'll presumably know what we're paying Pettersson and Hronek too. 

 

Right now he's a luxury, and as much as folks say we need to address this or that, most teams aren't going to have surplus depth at all positions within the constraints of the salary cap system. It's just not realistic. Teams have to really hone in on what their biggest weakness is, right now it seems pretty obvious that that's our second line. 

 

Even then, why would you take the chance of replacing Myers, a workhorse who rarely gets hurt and is probably outplaying yanev anyway, with an injury prone player who is, at best, equal to Myers when he is healthy.

 

We can use his last couple years in Calgary as an argument that those injury days are behind him, but we know the tanev story in van, why risk it?

 

As a rental for a cheap price?  Absolutely.  Otherwise?  No thanks, imo

[stawns]

Just now, tas said:

I'm not a classic anti-jb guy (or travis green, for that matter). I could always see benning's plan, even when it didn't always get executed as intended, up until the summer after the bubble. he became so determined to overhaul the defense and got so locked on to oel that he got tunnel vision.  

 

Yes, I was just speaking in general terms

[tas]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Yes, I was just speaking in general terms

I kind of was in a roundabout way too. I've been trying my best to empathize and trust in canucks management and defer to their vision and expertise for the last number of years, trying to be understanding that not every move is going to work out but that if the thought process that led to it was sound, then it was a good move. like the players trusting the process. 

 

it certainly hasn't always been easy, but overall it's felt nice to let go, not fret or try to "control" things that I can't. feels like I'm finally being rewarded this year. 

 

(not saying this as a contrast to yourself or anything like that, just as a change in my own approach vs how I was pre-2011)

[Gawdzukes]

20 hours ago, stawns said:

 

That would be reasonable, if they retain

 

He'll get way more than a 3rd I reckon. RD who are elite on the d side go for a big price on TDL day.

[Gawdzukes]

24 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd do something like Kuzmenko, Punky Brewster and our next two firsts, for Crosby with retention to make the cap work, in a heart beat. 

 

That said, I still think it's a unicorn like long shot to come in to reality.

 

 

ENTIRELY different personalities though which is a pretty important distinction given it wasn't so much Messier's ability here that was the issue.

 

 

Move Myers, play Cole.

 

Hughes, Tanev

Soucy/Cole, Hronek

Zadorov, Soucy/Cole

 

 

As much as I'd love Tanev for this year's playoff run... Pretty much this. A 2C and/or winger replacement for Kuzmenko are larger priorities and I wouldn't be overspending futures to add Tanev. As you say, for a reasonable acquisition cost, he'd be a really nice luxury add.

 

If nothing else, I hope we have a shot at him this summer as a UFA though.

 

There is no way Pitt is trading Crosby ... or is this something that is actually being reported?

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

There is no way Pitt is trading Crosby ... or is this something that is actually being reported?

 

Yea this seems like someone got really high and started typing.

[Optimist Prime]

why do we want a 34 year old Dman on an expiring contract with 1 goal in 45 games? 

 

I wasn't really interested in him when he was a Canuck and I am still baffled with the fans here who have missed him since he left. I get that he is an okay NHL defensemen, but what else about him makes him a fit now for Vancouver other than he used to be here?

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

He'll get way more than a 3rd I reckon. RD who are elite on the d side go for a big price on TDL day.

 

100% they will.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, tas said:

for me, '94 was Cinderella -- underperforming and sneaking is as 7th or 8th seed. I don't see it as Cinderella when the team tops the league all season, wall to wall, even as unexpected as it has been. 

It wasn't as Cinderella in hindsight.   92-93 they showed their mettle.   And they'd already showed they could upset teams in the playoffs.   There's a reason why Lindens playoff record's stand until today.   Context matters too.   We lose Nedved who scored close to 40, playing mostly on the 3rd line.    We all knew back then, the team was built for the playoffs as well.    What happened after was bad luck.  First the lockout so the momentum was stalled.   And then of course not re-signing Ronning and chasing Gretzky, and then Messier came in and the entire thing blew up before it really had a chance.   Bure's knees and contract issues.    Ugh.   When we brought in Mogilny, aside from trading for Luongo, there was so much optimism.  

 

At least things worked out in the end with the WCE era and Sedins.    Thanks to Messier and Keenan.    I'd take a mediocre regular season team that's built for the second season, every single time, over a great regular season team that rarely gets out of the first round. 

Edited January 26 by IBatch

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

There is no way Pitt is trading Crosby ... or is this something that is actually being reported?

There's been a few reporters postulating, but as I said, it's in the unicorn realm.

[tas]

59 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

It also has a lot - if not most - to do with the structure they play with. It allows them to bring up their internal depth and have them perform much better, similar to how our depth is thriving this year with new structure. I could see next year Bains, Podz, Raty, etc doing very well under this new system - much better, at least, than when we had other coaches.

this is absolutely true. justin williams on the snet panel alluded to this last game in regards to boston; it doesn't really matter who slots into the lineup because the culture there is "this is how we play".

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yea this seems like someone got really high and started typing.

While we are at it, maybe we could trade for Ovi too, get two other teams involved to cut his pay down to "won't matter if he ever scores again" level, and go for the trifecta.   If EP can't make it work with those two, then he's never, ever going to make it! 

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

There's been a few reporters postulating, but as I said, it's in the unicorn realm.

Yep.