Who you taking?

[Elias Pettersson]

2024:

 

Suter             Miller              Boeser

Kuzmenko    Pettersson     Mikheyev

Joshua         Blueger           Garland

Höglander    Åman              Lafferty 

 

Hughes       Hronek 

Zadorov      Myers 

Soucy         Cole

 

Demko     DeSmith 

 

1994:

 

Adams         Craven       Bure

Courtnall     Linden        Lafayette 

Momesso    Ronning      Gelinas 

Antoski        McIntyre    Hunter 

 

Murzyn       Lumme

Hedican      Brown 

Babych       Diduck

 

McLean   Whitmore 

 

2011:

 

Sedin           Sedin          Burrows

Raymond     Kesler         Samuelsson 

Higgins        Malhotra     Hansen 

Torres          Lapierre      Glass 

 

Hamhuis    Ehrhoff  

Edler          Bieksa

Ballard       Salo

 

Luongo     Schneider 

Edited January 28 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

2024

 

Hughes is the difference maker for me…

[cripplereh]

1994 Bure hands down best.

Linden best leader

 

McLean so far best goalie in a playoff run.

[Miss Korea]

Oh, we're cup final already?

[-AJ-]

lol, my gut is 2011, but honestly, two of those teams didn't win a cup and the jury's still out on 2024.

[48MPHSlapshot]

2011 was the best team on paper and it isn't particularly close.

 

That said, the 2011 team was mentally fragile. I feel the 94 team had more of the intangible factor that you need to win in the playoffs. 

 

Hard to say how this team will fare since we haven't even made the playoffs yet. 

[filthy animal]

2011 team over 1994 for sure, 2024 we still can't determine that.

 

2011 was dominant statistically, and even if we were to rate them head to head, forwards vs forwards, D vs D etc., 1994 team wouldn't even come close to the depth of the D-core the 2011 team had. They had 5 top 4 D-men , 4 being in their prime (Hamhuis Bieksa, Erhoff Edler) Salo could probably play top 4 on half the teams and he was our carrying our BOTTOM pairing

Edited January 28 by filthy animal

[filthy animal]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

2024:

 

Suter             Miller              Boeser

Kuzmenko    Pettersson     Mikheyev

Joshua         Blueger           Garland

Höglander    Åman              Lafferty 

 

Hughes       Hronek 

Zadorov      Myers 

Soucy         Cole

 

Demko     DeSmith 

 

1994:

 

Adams         Craven       Bure

Courtnall     Linden        Lafayette 

Momesso    Ronning      Gelinas 

Antoski        McIntyre    Hunter 

 

Murzyn       Lumme

Hedican      Brown 

Babych       Diduck

 

McLean   Whitmore 

 

2011:

 

Sedin           Sedin          Burrows

Raymond     Kelser         Samuelson

Higgins        Malhotra     Hansen 

Torres          Lapierre      Glass 

 

Hamhuis    Ehrhoff  

Edler          Bieksa

Ballard       Salo

 

Luongo     Schneider 

 

At best 1994 vs 2011 forwards  (being generous, i still feel the 2011 team had better forwards), the quality of dmen of the 2011 is unmatched, not even close. Comparing goalies, 2011 team had a Jennings duo, enough said.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

2011 was the best team on paper and it isn't particularly close.

 

That said, the 2011 team was mentally fragile. I feel the 94 team had more of the intangible factor that you need to win in the playoffs. 

 

Hard to say how this team will fare since we haven't even made the playoffs yet. 

On paper the 94 team had way better depth and size, and support players.   After Kesler/Burrows  who's up!   Not much compared to Courtnall, Adam's, Craven, Gelinas.    There's a reason why that team scored more goals, and it's not an era thing.    Pick your hero.    All had big playoffs for the Canucks aside from 94 too.    Bure Linden Ronning versus Kesler and the Sedins is a wash.   

 

McLean at the time a little less then Luongo, but of course he was better in 94.   

 

Wont get into the D, but it was pretty close.  One thing this early to mid 90's had, was an ability to turn it on.    Think you're wrong in saying it's "not close".     92-93 we were also a top team, and if we had Hedican and Brown instead of no Nedved, we'd of been pretty awesome.   2011 didn't have an almost 40 goal

scoring 3rd line center.     Head to head,  94 would have ripped Boston to shreds.   All the teams they faced were tougher, and at least 3, stacked in comparison too.   

Edited January 28 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, filthy animal said:

2011 team over 1994 for sure, 2024 we still can't determine that.

 

2011 was dominant statistically, and even if we were to rate them head to head, forwards vs forwards, D vs D etc., 1994 team wouldn't even come close to the depth of the D-core the 2011 team had. They had 5 top 4 D-men , 4 being in their prime (Hamhuis Bieksa, Erhoff Edler) Salo could probably play top 4 on half the teams and he was our carrying our BOTTOM pairing

94 Canucks had a decent defense before we got Hedican and Brown, which became our top pairing.   In 93 our team was 5th overall for defense, that's more than respectable.   94 the season,  expectations were higher, the Nedved thing became a big distraction.

 

Diduck Babych,  was a solid second pairing, that became the third pairing.  It's not as far off as your making it out to be.   Murzyn getting injured early on, didn't help (one of the better defensive D's around, in his prime).   Brown was a legit number one D.   Lumme a 2.  Babych used to be a very good  number 1, wasnt his role anymore BUT he always had another gear in the playoffs, like most of those Linden team players.   Babych on the "Bottom pairing" is a bit hilarious as far as depth is concerned.   Diduck was a tough mean, dependable D.   

 

   

To me Lumme = any of the 2011 guys.  Brown too.  Babych too.   Amped it up.   Would be in the HHOF if he played on EDM instead of WNP and Hartford.     Every team wanted a Babych.   Hammer would be a good comp.     Leaves a young Hedican and Diduck.    That's where 2011 was better.   Erhoff fell of the map after he left, more a product of a good team.    We also drafted Ohlund and Aucion... D was in good shape later too.  

 

As far as forwards go, 94 has all the teams beat in depth, size, and intangibles.   Having a Linden on your team, was like getting an automatic by in the first round.   Adams, Craven, Courtnall, neither the 2011 or the 2024 has that veteran savvy or support.    Gelinas was one of the players Gretzky listed, as wanting to play with.     He'd easily be 2011 teams fifth best forward.   On the Canucks, he was far down the depth chart.     94 team, had more offense, not really even close.   Look at how many guys could score 20, 30 plus and 60...plus they'd destroy both our current team, and the 2011 one, in the alley. 

 

Just when things were supposed to come together, it went sideways.   Mogilny, Bure, Linden and Ronning.   Yikes man.  Ronning was supposed to be Gretzky, became Messier and the rest is history. 

 

As far as who i'm going to go with though - 2024 team.   Why?  Because nobody has won yet, and the team is all doing well individually and as a whole.   Core is young, just like it was in 94 (Ronning, the eldest core member, was just entering his prime).   

 

And we've got something neither team did, and that's QHs. 

 

Edit:  Also will add, both CAL and NYR made the THN's top 25 best teams all-time.   CAL, just look at that roster.  It was sick.   NYR versus VAN, is still considered, the best final of the modern era, that's post expansion.    Only two goals separated the series, and as the series went on, we were the better team.    The Laffs have been waiting decades to have a better team, then the Gilmour/Clark led ones as well, who made it to back to back Conference Finals, and we handled them easily.     The road to the final wasn't easy either time.   We beat two contenders on the way both runs 

Edited January 28 by IBatch

[DownUndaCanuck]

2011 was the most elite team, lead the league in so many categories but sadly we just broke down over the playoffs. If I was being really critical, our core back then maybe wasn't "built" for the playoffs the way Boston's was. The Sedins were tough of course and Kesler was a mean S.O.B but all 3 of them got worn down over time. Then the big thing was our defence - we had an elite puck moving defence full of scoring, but maybe too much so. We had Edler who could hit but was a 40ish points corer, Ehrhoff was a 50 point scorer and not physical at all, Salo was a big goal scorer but not massively big or physical and then Hamhuis and Bieksa who were a fantastic shutdown pairing but no one was really big and physical to be fair. Then we go up against a monstrous Boston physical defence. Up front we had weedy guys like Samuelsson and Mason Raymond, but a great bottom-6 of gritty guys (Torres, Lapierre, Higgins).

 

You could maybe argue that the way PA has constructed our 2024 team, we're better built for the playoffs. Our core is elite yet again, Miller is the big key here - he's big, strong, physical, scoring well over what Kesler was (points wise at least) and can throw the body. Petey and Brock are a bit like the Sedins but I think come playoff time we might see them play a lot more attacking-physically (eg. throwing their bodies and hitting guys). I don't know if they'll endure hits the way the Sedins could though but we'll see. We've got a pretty character/gritty bottom-9 now. Defence is the game changer. We've got big physical shutdown guys there now which is exactly what you want for the playoffs. We've got arguably the best defenceman in the league which we lacked back then, and then another guy who's arguably top-5 or top-10 in the league in Hronek. Cole, Soucy, Myers and Zadorov are mirroring the Boston defence now.

 

Luongo vs Demko is an interesting one but Luongo was superb for us at times and then maybe the pressure/bad team in front of him in the finals blew him up.

 

I know it's early days and the 2011 team would destroy the 2024 team in a matchup because they had much better offensive depth, but I think in a 7 round series in the playoffs, our big physical defence would be the difference.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

lol, my gut is 2011, but honestly, two of those teams didn't win a cup and the jury's still out on 2024.

That's fair.    Having watched both teams, I know which one managed the most in the playoffs.    Regular season, 2011 set the high water mark, although both the 92-93 team, and a couple WCE seasons were closer than the stat sheets say.    Boston already has an extra 13 or so points this year, from 3 x 3 wins,  OTL shoot-out wins etc, which really should be treated with an asterisk as a tie.   I'm not sure that their "record" season last year was truly legit either.     100-103 points, nowadays, is more like 108-115.  

 

This 2024 has added a couple of these lately too, which is fine as a direct comparison to their peers, but still not ideal.   

 

Going with the 2024 team simply because you never do know.   And it does feel like something special is going on now.     Bure was just a different animal then the Sedins, and EP.   And Naslund.    QHs is like that too.  

[IBatch]

14 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

2011 was the most elite team, lead the league in so many categories but sadly we just broke down over the playoffs. If I was being really critical, our core back then maybe wasn't "built" for the playoffs the way Boston's was. The Sedins were tough of course and Kesler was a mean S.O.B but all 3 of them got worn down over time. Then the big thing was our defence - we had an elite puck moving defence full of scoring, but maybe too much so. We had Edler who could hit but was a 40ish points corer, Ehrhoff was a 50 point scorer and not physical at all, Salo was a big goal scorer but not massively big or physical and then Hamhuis and Bieksa who were a fantastic shutdown pairing but no one was really big and physical to be fair. Then we go up against a monstrous Boston physical defence. Up front we had weedy guys like Samuelsson and Mason Raymond, but a great bottom-6 of gritty guys (Torres, Lapierre, Higgins).

 

You could maybe argue that the way PA has constructed our 2024 team, we're better built for the playoffs. Our core is elite yet again, Miller is the big key here - he's big, strong, physical, scoring well over what Kesler was (points wise at least) and can throw the body. Petey and Brock are a bit like the Sedins but I think come playoff time we might see them play a lot more attacking-physically (eg. throwing their bodies and hitting guys). I don't know if they'll endure hits the way the Sedins could though but we'll see. We've got a pretty character/gritty bottom-9 now. Defence is the game changer. We've got big physical shutdown guys there now which is exactly what you want for the playoffs. We've got arguably the best defenceman in the league which we lacked back then, and then another guy who's arguably top-5 or top-10 in the league in Hronek. Cole, Soucy, Myers and Zadorov are mirroring the Boston defence now.

 

Luongo vs Demko is an interesting one but Luongo was superb for us at times and then maybe the pressure/bad team in front of him in the finals blew him up.

 

I know it's early days and the 2011 team would destroy the 2024 team in a matchup because they had much better offensive depth, but I think in a 7 round series in the playoffs, our big physical defence would be the difference.

That's a fair assessment.  It's also worth noting, that our number one PP was a little under 25%.    Which today would be good but not elite.   The PK was elite.   And still is.    Special teams drove that team.    That isn't a much of an element in the post season.    Truly think Thomas was the difference maker.   They won mostly because of a red hot goalie, and more than size, durability or whatever, that's why we don't have a cup.   Refs gave us twice as many power plays, they figured us out and as the post season wore on, and we couldn't score ... well without checking think they scored as many short handed goals, as we did power play goals ugh.     Not for lack of trying.   Super proud of that team regardless, it was a heck of a run.   

 

 

 

There are several things that get me excited about this team.   Like the 94 one, special teams isn't the engine driving the bus.   It's the 5 x 5 play.     And like the 2011 team, it's starting to feel like we can and will win at any given night.     Also feel that we don't rely on goaltending nearly as much as we did during the Luongo era.  He was our superstar.   We needed him to be elite.   Which he mostly was aside from a few eggs.    Boston blew us out...things got ugly.  

 

This team has its own feel.   It's starting to feel a bit like destiny.    Somethings are happening that I haven't seen a Canuck thing do before.   The first is our ridiculous 3rd period lead record.    The other is how so far, knock on wood, is bouncing back after a loss.    Both those are signs of a great team.     The only nagging doubts I have, is what happens if EP or Miller and especially QHs goes down.    Same thing that happened when Naslund went down, or a Sedin, or a Kesler is  my guess.    Tochett should get so many accolades, for making sure they came into this season in elite shape.   It for sure makes a difference.    IF this team can stay healthy, they can win a cup, as is.  

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

That's a fair assessment.  It's also worth noting, that our number one PP was a little under 25%.    Which today would be good but not elite.   The PK was elite.   And still is.    Special teams drove that team.    That isn't a much of an element in the post season.    Truly think Thomas was the difference maker.   They won mostly because of a red hot goalie, and more than size, durability or whatever, that's why we don't have a cup.   Refs gave us twice as many power plays, they figured us out and as the post season wore on, and we couldn't score ... well without checking think they scored as many short handed goals, as we did power play goals ugh.     Not for lack of trying.   Super proud of that team regardless, it was a heck of a run.   

 

 

 

There are several things that get me excited about this team.   Like the 94 one, special teams isn't the engine driving the bus.   It's the 5 x 5 play.     And like the 2011 team, it's starting to feel like we can and will win at any given night.     Also feel that we don't rely on goaltending nearly as much as we did during the Luongo era.  He was our superstar.   We needed him to be elite.   Which he mostly was aside from a few eggs.    Boston blew us out...things got ugly.  

 

This team has its own feel.   It's starting to feel a bit like destiny.    Somethings are happening that I haven't seen a Canuck thing do before.   The first is our ridiculous 3rd period lead record.    The other is how so far, knock on wood, is bouncing back after a loss.    Both those are signs of a great team.     The only nagging doubts I have, is what happens if EP or Miller and especially QHs goes down.    Same thing that happened when Naslund went down, or a Sedin, or a Kesler is  my guess.    Tochett should get so many accolades, for making sure they came into this season in elite shape.   It for sure makes a difference.    IF this team can stay healthy, they can win a cup, as is.  

 

 

Yeah agreed, durability of our stars and how we manage them will be so key down the stretch and in the playoffs. If we have to face Vegas their big guys will grind our stars down. I think Hughes is an interesting one - he plays 29 minutes tonight against CBJ but doesn't look tired and rarely gets hit because he's so elusive. I don't think teams will be able to break him down but we'll see how his fitness gets tested. I worry about Petey - he'll have a target on his back and will get crunched into the boards so many times. I think the same will happen to Miller but he might be able to withstand it a bit better. Teams rarely seem to pick on Brock but he's going to be the guy right in front of the net getting cross-checked on the PP all night long too.

 

Rick, Foote and Gonchar know what it takes to win down the stretch and how to stay healthy which is so key, durability is the most important thing going into the second half of the season. We are very star-heavy but our bottom-9 have won us a lot of games and I think you give the coaches credit for that.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

2024

 

Hughes is the difference maker for me…

Can't be ignored.   He's our Linden/Bure, Luongo .. the most important player on the team. 

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

Yeah agreed, durability of our stars and how we manage them will be so key down the stretch and in the playoffs. If we have to face Vegas their big guys will grind our stars down. I think Hughes is an interesting one - he plays 29 minutes tonight against CBJ but doesn't look tired and rarely gets hit because he's so elusive. I don't think teams will be able to break him down but we'll see how his fitness gets tested. I worry about Petey - he'll have a target on his back and will get crunched into the boards so many times. I think the same will happen to Miller but he might be able to withstand it a bit better. Teams rarely seem to pick on Brock but he's going to be the guy right in front of the net getting cross-checked on the PP all night long too.

 

Rick, Foote and Gonchar know what it takes to win down the stretch and how to stay healthy which is so key, durability is the most important thing going into the second half of the season. We are very star-heavy but our bottom-9 have won us a lot of games and I think you give the coaches credit for that.

Our third line has mostly been our second line for two months now.    They generate a lot of chances, hem the other team in, and rarely get scored on, and when they do, usually get a couple back.   EP for sure is a question mark.   Last playoffs,  Vegas was a lot bigger so at least we can breath a little easier.    More star power, but no more Tuch and Patches.    Love it if we can add Marroon and jettison Aman or one guy from our fourth line.    Or a Foligno etc.    Blake Wheeler.   A big bodied wily vet.   EDM adding Perry...well yikes man.    We need Anderson.   That's the missing ingredient.   EDM is going to be dirtier than ever.   Hope Vegas can take them out and come out limping to face us in the second round.    IF have a re-match final against NYR, fully except Trouba to go headhunting too.   We need someone there, to match up with that.   Starting with the Skate in the playoffs, would be a solid step too.    Aman would be so much better, if he was a nasty piece of work.   Maybe Tocchet should be showing some video of himself lol. 

Edited January 28 by IBatch

[distantandvague]

[Baratheon]

I’ve spent way too many boring offseason days thinking about this kind of stuff lol.  I’m quite confident that the correct answer is 1994 over 2011.  A lot of people will point out that 1994 team FELT like more of a playoff performer.  It might surprise some to learn that 1994 was also mostly statistically superior to 2011.  Linden and Bure outproduced the Sedins, depth scoring goes to 1994 and +/- is significantly better in 1994 as well.  McLean had a higher save percentage (by quite a bit actually) than Luongo while also playing more minutes and facing more shots.  
 

No slight against the 2011 team.  This is just stuff that I’ve found while piddling around.  2011 was incredible but perhaps 1994 is better than people remember or their perception anyway.

Edited January 28 by Baratheon

[distantandvague]

54 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

I’ve spent way too many boring offseason days thinking about this kind of stuff lol.  I’m quite confident that the correct answer is 1994 over 2011.  A lot of people will point out that 1994 team FELT like more of a playoff performer.  It might surprise some to learn that 1994 was also mostly statistically superior to 2011.  Linden and Bure outproduced the Sedins, depth scoring goes to 1994 and +/- is significantly better in 1994 as well.  McLean had a higher save percentage (by quite a bit actually) than Luongo while also playing more minutes and facing more shots.  
 

No slight against the 2011 team.  This is just stuff that I’ve found while piddling around.  2011 was incredible but perhaps 1994 is better than people remember or their perception anyway.

Took me a second to realize you meant McLean vs Luongo in the playoffs, because the save percentage wasn't even close in the entirety of that season. Plus Luongo's save percentage that playoff run gets skewed due to a couple of unsavory performances. 

[Alflives]

57 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

I’ve spent way too many boring offseason days thinking about this kind of stuff lol.  I’m quite confident that the correct answer is 1994 over 2011.  A lot of people will point out that 1994 team FELT like more of a playoff performer.  It might surprise some to learn that 1994 was also mostly statistically superior to 2011.  Linden and Bure outproduced the Sedins, depth scoring goes to 1994 and +/- is significantly better in 1994 as well.  McLean had a higher save percentage (by quite a bit actually) than Luongo while also playing more minutes and facing more shots.  
 

No slight against the 2011 team.  This is just stuff that I’ve found while piddling around.  2011 was incredible but perhaps 1994 is better than people remember or their perception anyway.

Didn’t the 94 club just barely make the playoffs then go on a magical playoff run? Whereas the 2011 team won the Presidents’ trophy and were favourites to win the Cup? 

[distantandvague]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t the 94 club just barely make the playoffs then go on a magical playoff run? Whereas the 2011 team won the Presidents’ trophy and were favourites to win the Cup? 

Their record was 41-40-3, too. I think because of how strong the playoff run, some revisionism is taking place about how dominant the team was from start to finish. 

[HKSR]

I assumed this was for a playoff run so I chose the 94 team.  They were built for playoff hockey.  Tough as nails and every single line worked as hard as our current Garland line.  Probably why they were literally a cross bar from likely winning it all that year.

 

Benefit of the doubt, the 2011 team would have won it all if not for injuries, but that's why I chose the 94 team. Even with very significant injuries to Linden, Ronning, etc, they still pushed the heavily favored NYR to the limit.  2011 is the ultimate regular season team though.

 

2024 team? We will have to wait and see.  So far all we know is they are head to head with the 2011 team for regular season success.  

[HKSR]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

On paper the 94 team had way better depth and size, and support players.   After Kesler/Burrows  who's up!   Not much compared to Courtnall, Adam's, Craven, Gelinas.    There's a reason why that team scored more goals, and it's not an era thing.    Pick your hero.    All had big playoffs for the Canucks aside from 94 too.    Bure Linden Ronning versus Kesler and the Sedins is a wash.   

 

McLean at the time a little less then Luongo, but of course he was better in 94.   

 

Wont get into the D, but it was pretty close.  One thing this early to mid 90's had, was an ability to turn it on.    Think you're wrong in saying it's "not close".     92-93 we were also a top team, and if we had Hedican and Brown instead of no Nedved, we'd of been pretty awesome.   2011 didn't have an almost 40 goal

scoring 3rd line center.     Head to head,  94 would have ripped Boston to shreds.   All the teams they faced were tougher, and at least 3, stacked in comparison too.   

Those downplaying the 94 team likely didn't watch that team play its way through the playoffs.  They were a monster when the going got tough.  

[stawns]

6 hours ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

2011 was the best team on paper and it isn't particularly close.

 

That said, the 2011 team was mentally fragile. I feel the 94 team had more of the intangible factor that you need to win in the playoffs. 

 

Hard to say how this team will fare since we haven't even made the playoffs yet. 

 

I think that's the difference in being the underdog vs being the favourite.  The weight of expectations

[ABNuck]

23 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Those downplaying the 94 team likely didn't watch that team play its way through the playoffs.  They were a monster when the going got tough.  

 

There's that X-Factor...if the 94 team had 2 chances to bring home the cup like the 2011 team did, I believe we'd have one. In all honesty, from what I've seen from the previous 3 SCF teams, this current rendition seems to have ALL of the components (the truculence of 82 & 94, and the skill of 2011)...this could be the year!!! And the way that the standings are shaping up, how many on here want another shot at the Bruins just to shove it down their throats...to see Marchand weeping as we sweep them in 4!!!