[Speculation] Jiricek unhappy in Columbus

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, tas said:

again, my issue was with the kid's retort and his expectations. I find it unseemly.

 

and, again, when it comes to evaluating the kid's performance and development and best interests, i defer to the people whose jobs depend on it. 

 

You called him a narcissist.

That's what calling someone entitled means.

It means a person's feels they deserve something they haven't worked hard enough for. 

 

You don't believe he has worked hard enough for his opportunity to play at the highest level ?

What information are you basing that on ?

 

 

Read the article above that gives stats about the quality of his game when given ice time, stats in regards to how the team performs when he is on the ice.

 

I have provided a few articles now that back up my opinion.

 

Here is the Yard Barkers opinion

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/what_to_make_about_david_jiriceks_frustration_about_ice_time/s1_16958_39886311

 

 

[Smashian Kassian]

Personally had him 3rd overall in his draft year.

 

I'd do Lekkerimaki & our 1st, but can't see Columbus doing it. You'd be crazy to give up on a RHD with his size + upside so quickly.

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

There is even more evidence that Jiricek and every other young player on their team is being completely mismanaged.

 

Tell me - if your team is rock bottom in the standings, would you put Adam Fantilli (a centre) on the fourth line wing just so you can boost the trade value of some other guys?

 

Pettersson, Hughes, and Boeser have never played in the AHL.

EP and QHs were obviously special, and did have an extra year (SHL is better than the AHL too), Brock 2 extra years.   No way should this kid be quartered backing the power play with Werenski (healthy in the line-up),  QHs had no competition really,  just Edler.    Green didn't put Brock on the first unit right away either ... he earned it.     What has Jiricek done to earn first unit PP time at 20?   It's extremely rare.   Is he the next Makar/QHs?     As far as Fantilli goes, look at Kakko and Laffreniere.   Not all these guys blast out of the gates.   

 

One things for sure, enough media scrunity and player pouting, disgruntlement, to warrant a change.    Tochett preaches accountability.   There is zero reason for Jiricek to be using the media to voice his frustrations, that stuff should be happening behind closed doors.    It's not like he's a superstar or a star yet.    And put in his time yet either.    Provorov and Werenski aren't exactly crap players, or had bad careers.  

 

 Peeke, well CLB should have traded him to the CDC a year ago and maybe none of this would have happened.    Oh and don't they have the "other" QHs in Adam Boqvist?    The guy who folks were trying to determine of the two, who was the better small PMD pre-draft.   He was just as touted, one of the "who will go next after Dahlin" guys.    He went third after Dahlin (8 right after QHs), Bouchard 10, Dobson 11th or 12th (can't remember NYI had both picks, think they picked Whalstrom 11th) ...  That shows they do know how to bring up their young defenseman.  

 

As for "mis-management".    CLB at the top,  Davidson is no idiot.   The rest of them not sure.   Davidson has his fingers all over that St. Louis Blues team.    He's also a very good broadcaster, one of the best, in that way you get a pretty good idea that he knows his stuff. 

Edited January 31 by IBatch

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Personally had him 3rd overall in his draft year.

 

I'd do Lekkerimaki & our 1st, but can't see Columbus doing it. You'd be crazy to give up on a RHD with his size + upside so quickly.

Juricek is a baby whiner. Why in the heck woukd we want that attitude in our organization? 

[tas]

8 hours ago, Ilunga said:

You don't believe he has worked hard enough for his opportunity to play at the highest level ?

What information are you basing that on ?

the organization he plays in believes that and they're the only ones that matter. they set the standard and decide whether or not he's meeting it. 

 

your opinion and my opinion and, frankly, the player's opinion are all irrelevant. 

[Miss Korea]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

EP and QHs were obviously special, and did have an extra year (SHL is better than the AHL too), Brock 2 extra years.   No way should this kid be quartered backing the power play with Werenski (healthy in the line-up),  QHs had no competition really,  just Edler.    Green didn't put Brock on the first unit right away either ... he earned it.     What has Jiricek done to earn first unit PP time at 20?   It's extremely rare.   Is he the next Makar/QHs?     As far as Fantilli goes, look at Kakko and Laffreniere.   Not all these guys blast out of the gates.   

 

One things for sure, enough media scrunity and player pouting, disgruntlement, to warrant a change.    Tochett preaches accountability.   There is zero reason for Jiricek to be using the media to voice his frustrations, that stuff should be happening behind closed doors.    It's not like he's a superstar or a star yet.    And put in his time yet either.    Provorov and Werenski aren't exactly crap players, or had bad careers.  

 

 Peeke, well CLB should have traded him to the CDC a year ago and maybe none of this would have happened.    Oh and don't they have the "other" QHs in Adam Boqvist?    The guy who folks were trying to determine of the two, who was the better small PMD pre-draft.   He was just as touted, one of the "who will go next after Dahlin" guys.    He went third after Dahlin (8 right after QHs), Bouchard 10, Dobson 11th or 12th (can't remember NYI had both picks, think they picked Whalstrom 11th) ...  That shows they do know how to bring up their young defenseman.  

 

As for "mis-management".    CLB at the top,  Davidson is no idiot.   The rest of them not sure.   Davidson has his fingers all over that St. Louis Blues team.    He's also a very good broadcaster, one of the best, in that way you get a pretty good idea that he knows his stuff. 

 

There are a lot of points you're making here, but I'm struggling to follow some of them.

 

Kakko and Lafrenière, like Tyler Seguin, were in a unique situation of being drafted into a fairly competitive team.  Obviously they had to defer to elite players like Zibanejad, Kreider and Panarin.  They formed a part of a young, fast-paced checking line.  The problem here with the Jackets is that they have a wealth of talented young players, and every single one of them has been throttled on both ends, by coach Pascal and GM Kekäläinen.  All the moves they make demote the youth in favour of veterans, who have "led" them to a 16-24-10 season.  They are the worst team in the East - probably even worse than Ottawa.  So why aren't the kids playing?

 

Not only should they have traded Boqvist, they had no reason to acquire Provorov and Severson.  It essentially condemned Jiricek to the AHL as he was the only skater who was waiver exempt.  Not sure what you're trying to say about Boqvist - he has been healthy scratched for as many games as Peeke.  Both of them seem are likely draft busts at this point, but for some reason they're still getting more opportunities than Jiricek.  Quinn Hughes made a lot of mistakes as a young defenceman but he was allowed to continue making those mistakes because we were such a bad team.  Meanwhile Kent Johnson gets sent to the AHL every month, and when he comes back up he just ends up in the pressbox or the end of the bench.  What Jindal of development is that?

 

It's crazy that not a single promising young player has developed properly.  Crazy, but not surprising given how VP has handled the assignments this season.  The stupid comments he made comparing Jiricek to his teenage daughter was even worse.  A young player should not have to show humility and just keep his head down if he feels like he's being mistreated.  If I were a young player I think one of the worst teams to get drafted to is Columbus.  One of the worst performing teams in NHL history and they haven't had a young superstar since... Rick Nash?

 

John Davidson got cut from St. Louis in 2012.  By 2019, the only kids left from 2012 were Allen, Pietrangelo and Schwartz (Perron got moved a bunch of times before coming back).  That 2019 team pulled a cup out their asses - thank Binnington and Gloria.

[Captain insano]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Juricek is a baby whiner. Why in the heck woukd we want that attitude in our organization? 

Oh Alf…. If they aren’t Canucks property they are crap eh

[Bob Long]

24 minutes ago, Captain insano said:

Oh Alf…. If they aren’t Canucks property they are crap eh

[Alflives]

56 minutes ago, Captain insano said:

Oh Alf…. If they aren’t Canucks property they are crap eh

Exactly! They are craperolla!!!

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, tas said:

the organization he plays in believes that and they're the only ones that matter. they set the standard and decide whether or not he's meeting it. 

 

your opinion and my opinion and, frankly, the player's opinion are all irrelevant. 

 

My opinion and your opinion are, however David's opinion is not.

It's his Career that he has devoted his life to.

To say his opinion is irrelevant is ridiculous. 

 

As has been pointed out, the Blue jackets aren't proving to be the best decision makers in regards to developing their players. 

 

So according to your logic, no employee of any organisation, is allowed to speak out in regards to their situation in their work place ? 

 

 

[GrammaInTheTub]

9 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

My opinion and your opinion are, however David's opinion is not.

It's his Career that he has devoted his life to.

To say his opinion is irrelevant is ridiculous. 

 

As has been pointed out, the Blue jackets aren't proving to be the best decision makers in regards to developing their players. 

 

So according to your logic, no employee of any organisation, is allowed to speak out in regards to their situation in their work place ? 

 

 

No doubt. Let’s just let Babcock casually browse private photo collections while we’re at it. You’re lucky enough to make the NHL so you deserve nothing. (read: sarcasm)
 

NHL players have far more say in their development than ever before and I think that’s a good thing.

 

If we were in this same position, say we were “stifling” a young Hughes and it was clear to us that that wasn’t what was expected or the deal, and he spoke out just to say “I want to play”, would it be the same response? 

Edited January 31 by GrammaInTheTub

[Jester13]

Jiricek's comments can certainly be taken as a red flag in the beginning, but the coach's ridiculous comments publicly squashed the red flags for me, as it points to a cluster fuck organization and not the highly touted draft pick as the issue. I mean, Babcock didn't even make it to training camp. CBJ is in shambles.

 

Allvin snagging Jiricek would be a home run for us. Lfg.

[tas]

18 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

My opinion and your opinion are, however David's opinion is not.

It's his Career that he has devoted his life to.

To say his opinion is irrelevant is ridiculous. 

 

As has been pointed out, the Blue jackets aren't proving to be the best decision makers in regards to developing their players. 

 

So according to your logic, no employee of any organisation, is allowed to speak out in regards to their situation in their work place ? 

 

 

not what I'm saying. it's about expectations. 

 

meeting expectations is a subjective concept. the expectations in question are inherently dictated by the team. analysis as to whether players are meeting said expectations is also up to the team. the whole concept of meeting expectations is predicated on those expectations being in the eyes of the organization that laid them out. 

 

as an example, if brock boeser scored 70 goals this year by parking himself at the offensive blueline all game, literally did nothing else but sitting there waiting for stretch passes, would that be meeting expectations? of course not, because rick tocchet has different expectations than that for his players. 

 

edit: just to clarify, the player can absolutely have an opinion on their play and whether they're good enough to be playing in the nhl and whether that would be best for their development or not. they CAN'T have an opinion on whether they're meeting their team's expectations because that is, by definition, only up to the organization and nobody else. 

Edited January 31 by tas

[GrammaInTheTub]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Jiricek's comments can certainly be taken as a red flag in the beginning, but the coach's ridiculous comments publicly squashed the red flags for me, as it points to a cluster fuck organization and not the highly touted draft pick as the issue. I mean, Babcock didn't even make it to training camp. CBJ is in shambles.

 

Allvin snagging Jiricek would be a home run for us. Lfg.

That was a super bush league response for sure. How was he not coached on how to respond to reports and allowed to just off the cuff it like that and hurt the player relationship and eventual trade leverage. Makes me extra appreciative of the management and coaching we have in place! 

[GrammaInTheTub]

1 minute ago, tas said:

not what I'm saying. it's about expectations. 

 

meeting expectations is a subjective concept. the expectations in question are inherently dictated by the team. analysis as to whether players are meeting said expectations is also up to the team. the whole concept of meeting expectations is predicated on those expectations being in the eyes of the organization that laid them out. 

 

as an example, if brock boeser scored 70 goals this year by parking himself at the offensive blueline all game, literally did nothing else but sitting there waiting for stretch passes, would that be meeting expectations? of course not, because rick tocchet has different expectations than that for his players. 

Nail on the head. There appears to be a very different set of expectations from player to organization. We can see that he has not been given the minutes expected by him. We can see that he hasn’t performed to their standards. So at the end of the day it’s on him to perform to their standards or his right to seek a change or scenery. Neither are right or wrong and only time will tell who made the better decision if a change is to come. But I’m all for players advocating for themselves - even if misplaced. Let any prospecting team decide if it’s worth it to them or not. 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, tas said:

not what I'm saying. it's about expectations. 

 

meeting expectations is a subjective concept. the expectations in question are inherently dictated by the team. analysis as to whether players are meeting said expectations is also up to the team. the whole concept of meeting expectations is predicated on those expectations being in the eyes of the organization that laid them out. 

 

as an example, if brock boeser scored 70 goals this year by parking himself at the offensive blueline all game, literally did nothing else but sitting there waiting for stretch passes, would that be meeting expectations? of course not, because rick tocchet has different expectations than that for his players. 

 

So ?

 

This has no bearing on David's right to speak out on his own behalf.

This has been the centre piece of our discussion.

He wasn't rude.

He praised his coaches.

He simply expressed his belief in his abilities to play at the highest level.

 

Again, it has pointed out that, the Blue jackets coaches aren't doing a good job of not just developing talent, but building a team. 

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion however your very first post that I replied to was a few lines insulting the kid.

 

You stated he was a narcissist, that's what being entitled means, that is a character trait of someone who is a narcissist.

 

 

[Jester13]

10 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

That was a super bush league response for sure. How was he not coached on how to respond to reports and allowed to just off the cuff it like that and hurt the player relationship and eventual trade leverage. Makes me extra appreciative of the management and coaching we have in place! 

Yeah, his comments reek of him being an old-school coach who has no clue on how to manage players. We're so gdang lucky with our coaching staff. All reports about Tocc are how he has a knack for talking to people in such an empathetic way that lowers people's defensiveness, yet still commanding a very high level of respect. 

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So ?

 

This has no bearing on David's right to speak out on his own behalf.

This has been the centre piece of our discussion.

He wasn't rude.

He praised his coaches.

He simply expressed his belief in his abilities to play at the highest level.

 

Again, it has pointed out that, the Blue jackets coaches aren't doing a good job of not just developing talent, but building a team. 

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion however your very first post that I replied to was a few lines insulting the kid.

 

You stated he was a narcissist, that's what being entitled means, that is a character trait of someone who is a narcissist.

 

 

I'm curious, what was is specifically you were doing for a job when you were working with high-level snow athletes, or whatever it was you mentioned earlier in the thread? 

[GrammaInTheTub]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Yeah, his comments reek of him being an old-school coach who has no clue on how to manage players. We're so gdang lucky with our coaching staff. All reports about Tocc are how he has a knack for talking to people in such an empathetic way that lowers people's defensiveness, yet still commanding a very high level of respect. 

He’s a straight shooter and gives tough love. No head games. When you don’t have to worry about ulterior motives in people’s conduct and discussions with you, it builds trust - simple as that. This is not to say that any of our previous coaches did that - not by any means - but he’s clearly gotten through.

 

And yes players are playing to or above their potential right now for the most part - so detractors will say he’s benefiting from players hitting their stride. But one thing doesn’t need to take away from another - we just happened to hit that secret sauce and we deserve fully enjoy this window! 

[Ilunga]

10 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

 But I’m all for players advocating for themselves - even if misplaced. Let any prospecting team decide if it’s worth it to them or not. 

 

That's what at the core of this discussion IMO in regards to posters calling out/ insulting David for speaking out on his own behalf. 

 

He has every right to do this.

He has devoted his life to playing hockey at the highest level. 

He, IMO and as others in the

industry believe has proved he has earned the right/ performed well enough so far to play on a NHL roster.

 

If Columbus don't like it, they can trade him and he gets a chance elsewhere. 

 

I am willing to bet there are a few GM's out there that would take every factor of this equation into account and trade for him in a heartbeat.

 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I'm curious, what was is specifically you were doing for a job when you were working with high-level snow athletes, or whatever it was you mentioned earlier in the thread? 

 

Above all we were role models for the " Grommies ".

That's a surfing term for young surfers.

We had a shop at Mt.Hotham, The Freezer.

The kids would hang out and go riding with us.

Those of us who were good in the park would give them pointers there.

Those of us who were  freeskiers/boarders taught them to look at the mountain as a canvas, imagining drawing (ski) lines on it, as well as developing technique. 

 

That evolved into the camp of Champs, people came up and paid to to be trained.

After a couple of years we actually got into trouble with Whistler, we didn't know they had trademarked that name.

 

What I am most happy about was nothing to do with elite athletes, off and on through those 20 years of " ski-bumming " I worked with handicap skiers at the elite level and just average people learning to ski. 

 

At one end of the spectrum there was my friend Mick Norton, this guy was a human dynamo.

Lost the use of his leg's in a motorbike crash.

We came up with one of the first sit skis for him back in the day.

He won a few para Olympic gold medals.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately Mick became addicted to opium based painkillers and died of an overdose.

 

I miss my brother...rip in peace my friend.

 

At the other end of the spectrum there was this 69 year old guy, Peter who was blind.

I taught him to ski.

It took a few years, both technique and skiiing down behind him to tell him when to turn.

He used to thank me, I told him he inspired me, if he could achieve what he did, there was no limit to what I could achieve.

[tas]

45 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

He simply expressed his belief in his abilities to play at the highest level.

no, he expressed disagreement about meeting his coach's expectations. different things. 

[GrammaInTheTub]

18 minutes ago, tas said:

no, he expressed disagreement about meeting his coach's expectations. different things. 

Yes he flat out said that’s their opinion and he disagrees. On record. The question becomes do we agree with him or with managements approach in handling him? We don’t have these insights but our pro scouts do thankfully. I trust organizations, including ours, will know whether his complaints are warranted or not and will act accordingly. I suspect the organization isn’t happy that his words may have decreased their leverage in deals with him involved going forward - but the coaches response doesn’t help them either. Just a mess. Happy to be a Canucks fan right now that’s for sure! 

[Ilunga]

27 minutes ago, tas said:

no, he expressed disagreement about meeting his coach's expectations. different things. 

 

You still don't get it do you ?

 

What I take exception to, is you insulting a kid you don't even know, simply because he expressed confidence/belief in his abilities to play at the highest level.

 

This kind of thing really grinds my gears, often in life, people who haven't achieved Jack shit, put shit on those who try and achieve something in life. 

 

That's why I asked you about what you what you have  achieved. 

Just to be clear I am not saying you haven't achieved anything, however people who are driven to succeed often feel like David does. 

 

 

I have posted this a few times, just the other day in the music thread, but for for disclosure here and to illustrate my character, this is me 

 

And I actually talk about what I have stated in this thread about believing in myself and what my parents taught me 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, Captain insano said:

Oh Alf…. If they aren’t Canucks property they are crap eh

 

Wouldn't it be great if we end up with David on our team, just so we could see Alf backflip.

After all every Canuck player is gold to good Alf.