Contract dilemma this summer

[Artemus]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

JR and PA have said that they would like to start with Petey. Obviously their ability to re-sign other players depends on whether Petey re-signs and, if he does, how much that number is. Hronek would come next.

 

The problem is that the Petey situation might not be resolved by the time free agency opens.  But at least the Canucks should have some idea by then of how much it would cost to re-sign him.

 

I think all the other potential free agents are on hold until Petey is willing to at least enter into a conversation unless someone is willing to re-sign for a team-friendly deal.

 

Personally, I do not think it is unreasonable for Petey to delay conversations until the Canuck season is over. But it is important to have serious discussions quickly after that. If not, the team might have to look at trading him. (The Tkachuk outcome would be better than the Gaudreau outcome.)

 

 

Well, I consider this to be a very well written post.

 

You hit on most of the salient points with the dominoes falling, starting with EP40 and then moving on to Hronek. The need to quickly negotiate with the EP camp after the season is over or risk losing out in "Free Agency".

 

 

 

[Canuckleheads Fan]

I'm not the least bit worried. I was looking at the Abby roster, and there are five or six guys down there who will press for jobs in camp. The reason to have a well-stocked minor league system and good professional scouts is that you get to fill you bottom six with guys brought up in your system on bargain contracts. Guys like Sasson, Raty, Pods, Baines, and one or two of the D-men could all be filling spots currently being filled by guys the team won't be able to afford next year. Also, this staff recognized the untapped potential in guys like Blueger, Joshua, Suter, Hronek, and Lafferty, who have all but Suter (one more year of team control) earned themselves significant raises. If they spotted those guys, don't you think they'll spot some other budget players who could thrive under this system and coaching staff? I agree with the OP, they'll resign Lafferty (Swiss Army Knife), Cole, Myers, and Hronek. Myers as long as they get a team friendly deal, something like 2 x 2-2.5. Tocchet and Foote seem to really like him.

[DownUndaCanuck]

On 1/30/2024 at 4:18 PM, aGENT said:

 

If the dollars work after adding Tanev or similar, I'm not opposed to bringing Cole back for the right price as our #6.

 

Hughes, Hronek/Tanev

Zadorov/Soucy, Tanev/Hronek

Soucy/Zadorov, Cole

 

Friedman, Juulsen

 

It'd be a tough job. Hronek probably fetches 7.5M. Zadorov gets 3.5-4M. Tanev probably deserves the same in all honesty. Then maybe we can bargain Cole down to 2M or just repalce him with Juulsen.

 

Essentially with Myers going, we're just 1M cheaper on the blueline then. 

[Agkr3w]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:31 AM, Gurn said:

$30.8 mill in cap space next year, and 12 guys signed.

 

Should have moved Kuze at the end of last year, for a low first or blue chip prospect. That would be $5.5 mill extra space.

Have to think he's gone at deadline

 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Agkr3w said:

Have to think he's gone at deadline

 

It would seem so- but even earlier than the deadline

[bathgate]

On 1/30/2024 at 4:41 PM, JamesB said:

JR and PA have said that they would like to start with Petey. Obviously their ability to re-sign other players depends on whether Petey re-signs and, if he does, how much that number is. Hronek would come next.

 

The problem is that the Petey situation might not be resolved by the time free agency opens.  But at least the Canucks should have some idea by then of how much it would cost to re-sign him.

 

I think all the other potential free agents are on hold until Petey is willing to at least enter into a conversation unless someone is willing to re-sign for a team-friendly deal.

 

Personally, I do not think it is unreasonable for Petey to delay conversations until the Canuck season is over. But it is important to have serious discussions quickly after that. If not, the team might have to look at trading him. (The Tkachuk outcome would be better than the Gaudreau outcome.)

Just don't wait  too long too sign ep40. Remember 2018 (?) when they tried to resign Markstrom ,negotiations went into free agency resulting in loss of Tanev and Toffolli .

[Reznor]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:44 AM, AK-19 said:

Hoglander Miller Boeser

Kuzmenko Pete Mikheyev

Bains Suter Garland

Podkolzin Aman Karlsson

 

Raty/PDG

 

Hughes    Tanev

Soucy       Hronek

Zadorov   Myers

 

Wolanin Juulson

 

As good as Blueger has been centring that thirst line, Suter was also doing great there prior to his injury. I suspect he could slide into that line if we let go Blueger.

I think you meant "third" line, but it's still an appropriate - given how they hound the puck.

Anyway, I had it worked out on the cap simulator that we should be generally fine, but with Lindholm now in the fold, I imagine not so much. Even if we had to ice that team above (sans Lindholm), I could see it competing at a high level. I would not, however, re-sign Myers anywhere near what he's expected to make on his next contract. 

[vcBrett]

I have been hearing some interesting chatter about the possibility that the Canucks dont resign Petey and make a similar move Calgary did with Tkachuck. 

Trade his rights to a team that will pay the man and bring in some skilled players in return. Ultimately, Petey's performance, his asking price and the teams end results will determine the best course of action.

 

Tho, I am on the side that we should resign him. It does provide something interesting to ponder and what a Canucks team next year could like if you traded Petey's rights in the offseason. 

 

From all I have seen and heard, I dont get a good feeling that Petey will be taking a significant enough discount to help resign a lot of these UFA's.

Would you rather have say Boeser and Lindholm here the next 4-6 years or Petey. That is a tough one that would take some serious thought on my part to answer.

 

I think it was Macintyre who was talking about the Canucks potentially bringing in Lindholm can also act as a security blanket should Petey's asking price remain too high for this team.

If Petey wont take a discount, you can let him go and resign Lindholm, giving you a legit #2 center to play behind Miller and save some dollars to spend elsewhere.

I think, however, that this would be the last resort for management. But the point still stands, the Canucks have a legit #2 center (who put up 1st line #'s while between two elite wingers) that they can resign without having to dip into the free agency and potentially over pay to get a guy.  You would save money to keep around a lot of guys and potentially bring in some extra talent as well. 

 

Next years top six could be:

 LW (accquired in Petey trade) - Miller - Boeser

Mik - Lindholm - Podkolzin? Free agent? (I havent giving this too much thought)

 

Depending on what you could get back for Petey or even accquire in free agency if you save some dollars, this team could still be competitive without Petey. 

Although this is all conjecture, I think its interesting to think about. There is also no doubt management has had serious talks about this possibility.

Not only have the Canucks had a crazy season so far, but they appear primed for a wild off-season as well.

 

Lets trust Allvin and JR to make the right choices, they havent given me a reason to doubt that they will make the best decision available to them.

 

 

[The Lock]

I look at this as a good dilemma to have. We get more control over our cap situation as a result of so many contracts freeing up and have more control over what our team looks like next year as a result.

 

Do I think we'll keep everyone? No.

Do I think we should keep everyone? Also no.

 

For example, I look at Myers and see 6mil in freed up cap space. lol

[ABNuck]

9 hours ago, vcBrett said:

I have been hearing some interesting chatter about the possibility that the Canucks dont resign Petey and make a similar move Calgary did with Tkachuck. 

Trade his rights to a team that will pay the man and bring in some skilled players in return. Ultimately, Petey's performance, his asking price and the teams end results will determine the best course of action.

 

Tho, I am on the side that we should resign him. It does provide something interesting to ponder and what a Canucks team next year could like if you traded Petey's rights in the offseason. 

 

From all I have seen and heard, I dont get a good feeling that Petey will be taking a significant enough discount to help resign a lot of these UFA's.

Would you rather have say Boeser and Lindholm here the next 4-6 years or Petey. That is a tough one that would take some serious thought on my part to answer.

 

I think it was Macintyre who was talking about the Canucks potentially bringing in Lindholm can also act as a security blanket should Petey's asking price remain too high for this team.

If Petey wont take a discount, you can let him go and resign Lindholm, giving you a legit #2 center to play behind Miller and save some dollars to spend elsewhere.

I think, however, that this would be the last resort for management. But the point still stands, the Canucks have a legit #2 center (who put up 1st line #'s while between two elite wingers) that they can resign without having to dip into the free agency and potentially over pay to get a guy.  You would save money to keep around a lot of guys and potentially bring in some extra talent as well. 

 

Next years top six could be:

 LW (accquired in Petey trade) - Miller - Boeser

Mik - Lindholm - Podkolzin? Free agent? (I havent giving this too much thought)

 

Depending on what you could get back for Petey or even accquire in free agency if you save some dollars, this team could still be competitive without Petey. 

Although this is all conjecture, I think its interesting to think about. There is also no doubt management has had serious talks about this possibility.

Not only have the Canucks had a crazy season so far, but they appear primed for a wild off-season as well.

 

Lets trust Allvin and JR to make the right choices, they havent given me a reason to doubt that they will make the best decision available to them.

 

 

 

This is kinda what I was thinking is going on as well. They paid quite a bit for Lindholm for 1/2 a season of hockey. I think they already know Petey will be dealt in the off-season so it makes it more comfortable to re-sign Lindholm for around 7mil rather than Petey for 11-12mil. Petey will return ALOT...more than Tkachuk in my opinion. I'm thinking Top6 forward, prospect and a decent 1st pick (front half of the draft). So, who will have that to offer?

 

WEST

Chicago: Only forward I'd want is Bedard. Only prospect would be Dach. So this would be a no-starter for them/me. They ain't giving up Bedard and they ain't giving up their first.

 

San Jose: Eklund would be the T6F, Bystedt the prospect and their first. This one is doable by us...not sure if SJS would part with their first...maybe after the lottery and they're sitting 3/4/5/6 OA they might consider it, but probably not a top 2.

 

Ducks: TZ is the forward, I'd be OK with either Luneau or Zellweger...and their first. That would do.

 

Yotes: Keller, obviously, Geekie or Lamoureux...and we may as well take their first, they'd just waste in on a player that they'll never be able to develop anyways.

 

EAST

CBJ: Johnson, Jiricek and probably a next year 1st (once they are FINNISH-ed with their GM, the temp guy probably won't be allowed to trade this year's first...no probs, get next year's "unprotected" first).

 

Sens: Batherson, Thomson, Formenton (just kidding...too soon?)...and their 1st this year AND a 2nd next year (their player package is nowhere near as strong as the other teams mentioned...so I want the extra pick).

 

Sabres: This is an outside shot, but I'd want Cozens AND Benson, and their 2nd this year. Way outside chance on this one but if they gave us Benson, I'd let them keep their first this year just to be sporting and all.

 

And lastly and probably most likely...the PENS: Guentzel (duh), Pickering and I want their 2nd this year since we'll have to do all the legwork to get Jake re-signed.

 

That's my take on it...back to you Howard.

[Jester13]

2 hours ago, ABNuck said:

 

This is kinda what I was thinking is going on as well. They paid quite a bit for Lindholm for 1/2 a season of hockey. I think they already know Petey will be dealt in the off-season so it makes it more comfortable to re-sign Lindholm for around 7mil rather than Petey for 11-12mil. Petey will return ALOT...more than Tkachuk in my opinion. I'm thinking Top6 forward, prospect and a decent 1st pick (front half of the draft). So, who will have that to offer?

 

WEST

Chicago: Only forward I'd want is Bedard. Only prospect would be Dach. So this would be a no-starter for them/me. They ain't giving up Bedard and they ain't giving up their first.

 

San Jose: Eklund would be the T6F, Bystedt the prospect and their first. This one is doable by us...not sure if SJS would part with their first...maybe after the lottery and they're sitting 3/4/5/6 OA they might consider it, but probably not a top 2.

 

Ducks: TZ is the forward, I'd be OK with either Luneau or Zellweger...and their first. That would do.

 

Yotes: Keller, obviously, Geekie or Lamoureux...and we may as well take their first, they'd just waste in on a player that they'll never be able to develop anyways.

 

EAST

CBJ: Johnson, Jiricek and probably a next year 1st (once they are FINNISH-ed with their GM, the temp guy probably won't be allowed to trade this year's first...no probs, get next year's "unprotected" first).

 

Sens: Batherson, Thomson, Formenton (just kidding...too soon?)...and their 1st this year AND a 2nd next year (their player package is nowhere near as strong as the other teams mentioned...so I want the extra pick).

 

Sabres: This is an outside shot, but I'd want Cozens AND Benson, and their 2nd this year. Way outside chance on this one but if they gave us Benson, I'd let them keep their first this year just to be sporting and all.

 

And lastly and probably most likely...the PENS: Guentzel (duh), Pickering and I want their 2nd this year since we'll have to do all the legwork to get Jake re-signed.

 

That's my take on it...back to you Howard.

 

Notice all the teams on this list are not close to being contenders? No way would Petey re-sign with any of these teams, which means there's no way these teams would trade for him.

 

This is big leverage for Allvin. There aren't many contenders that can afford to trade for Petey and then re-sign him, although I'd love to hear some real proposals. It would be a fun discussion.

[kilgore]

4 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

 

Notice all the teams on this list are not close to being contenders? No way would Petey re-sign with any of these teams, which means there's no way these teams would trade for him.

 

This is big leverage for Allvin. There aren't many contenders that can afford to trade for Petey and then re-sign him, although I'd love to hear some real proposals. It would be a fun discussion.

 

At least the Canucks took away the excuse of Petey wanting to go play for a contender.  (are we a contender? still wrapping my head around that one)  But at least we're in the conversation.  So one of his requirements should be now scratched off the list. Playing for a winning team.

 

 I love how this management is not satisfied with just filling out the roster, strictly with who we can absolutely re-sign.  Its okay to have more UFAs than you can sign. Correction.....more good, usable, UFA's than you can sign.  Players and their agents know this and its almost like a competition to see which of them wants it more. To play here and not somewhere else.

 

Gives choices and some room to observe who is here and how they fit in, and also how they do in the post season as well.  Then, hopefully, Allvin can replace those that move on with cheaper replacements

[bh90]

a lot can change between now and the offseason but for fun, there is a way to keep both Lindholm and Petey and bring most of our team back.

 

We will rely on Bains and Podkolzin being ready to take the next step and it's hard to see how Joshua and Blueger fit into the picture.

 

not sure if i like the line combinations but just put something for purpose of calculating cap. i don't like having Suter/Garland together. and maybe it's not Myers and Zadarov we resign but i'm sure we can find 2 D for 7.25 combined just like we found Soucy and Cole this year for 6.25 mil.

 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Lindholm doesn't deserve close to 8M. Maybe in his prime 40G season but he's in a down-swing right now. It'll all depend on how he plays the next 40+ games of course. If he gets back to PPG, 30-40G scoring, we're in trouble. Hopefully he tapers off as a 20-30G, 60P two way center. We should be able to sign him for 5-6M x 5 years then (bit of a bargain, probably would get 6.5-7M on the market).

 

Worst case scenario, Petey comes in at 11.5M, Lindholm at 6M, Hronek at 7.5M. Sutter, Blueger, Lafferty and Joshua will probably command 2-3M in raises on their current deals. OEL's dead cap goes up about 2M. The rest (including Zadorov) I'd say break even cap-wise.

 

So that's 12-13M in raises on our current cap. Lose Cole and Myers and we're 9M off, Silovs for DeSmith and that's 10M off so we're still 2-3M over the cap with two less 20 minute defenceman. Hopefully we can sign Cole or Tanev ideally to a cheap 2-3M deal for a year or two but we've got to find 5M in cap space.

The easy answer is move Mikheyev or Garland. Hopefully they'll have done enough to be worth a straight pick (2nd or 3rd?). I think Garland's easier to move.

 

Pettersson - Miller - Boeser

Hoglander - Lindholm - Mikheyev

Podkolzin - Blueger - Joshua

Lafferty - Suter - PDG

 

Hughes - Hronek

Zadorov - Tanev

Soucy - Juulsen

 

Demko

Silovs

 

It'd be nice to have another decent defenceman in there but we can't let Lindholm walk after the haul we just gave Calgary.

[TopChed]

On 1/30/2024 at 7:48 PM, Artemus said:

 

 

Well, I consider this to be a very well written post.

 

You hit on most of the salient points with the dominoes falling, starting with EP40 and then moving on to Hronek. The need to quickly negotiate with the EP camp after the season is over or risk losing out in "Free Agency".

 

 

 

That's exactly it. 

 

You member when MGMT ran out of time to call guys like Tanev. Let's not do that. It really starts w Pete. 

 

Alvin has assembled quite a group here with the additions of Lindholm Zadorov and Hronek all needing extensions it would be a shame if he ran out of time. 

 

 

[CanuckMan]

If the Canucks want to move forward. They need to trade Mikheyev. 5 million for a player that has never gotten more than 32 points is hilarious. Guy is good defensively no doubt but you can get those guys for 1.5-3 million. Mikheyev is a 3rd line at his BEST. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

1 hour ago, CanuckMan said:

If the Canucks want to move forward. They need to trade Mikheyev. 5 million for a player that has never gotten more than 32 points is hilarious. Guy is good defensively no doubt but you can get those guys for 1.5-3 million. Mikheyev is a 3rd line at his BEST. 

 

I think if we want to sign all our big guns then Garland or Mikheyev have to be the collateral damage. Lindholm can play wing so gives us versatility, I'd rather we shed one of these 5M wingers to keep our new acquisition

[filthy animal]

Bleuger, Lafferty, Joshua, at least 2 will be left unsigned, but wouldn't be surprised if all 3 left, theyve exceeded expectations and upped their value. Id try to keep Joshua for sure. If you guys recall, Suter was centering Joshua and Garland beginning of the season and looked very good until he got injured (Bleuger took his spot). Bleuger for sure will be gone if he just keeps his usual place, most likely earned himself at least 2.5 mill - 3 mill per year

[filthy animal]

16 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Lindholm doesn't deserve close to 8M. Maybe in his prime 40G season but he's in a down-swing right now. It'll all depend on how he plays the next 40+ games of course. If he gets back to PPG, 30-40G scoring, we're in trouble. Hopefully he tapers off as a 20-30G, 60P two way center. We should be able to sign him for 5-6M x 5 years then (bit of a bargain, probably would get 6.5-7M on the market).

 

Worst case scenario, Petey comes in at 11.5M, Lindholm at 6M, Hronek at 7.5M. Sutter, Blueger, Lafferty and Joshua will probably command 2-3M in raises on their current deals. OEL's dead cap goes up about 2M. The rest (including Zadorov) I'd say break even cap-wise.

 

So that's 12-13M in raises on our current cap. Lose Cole and Myers and we're 9M off, Silovs for DeSmith and that's 10M off so we're still 2-3M over the cap with two less 20 minute defenceman. Hopefully we can sign Cole or Tanev ideally to a cheap 2-3M deal for a year or two but we've got to find 5M in cap space.

The easy answer is move Mikheyev or Garland. Hopefully they'll have done enough to be worth a straight pick (2nd or 3rd?). I think Garland's easier to move.

 

Pettersson - Miller - Boeser

Hoglander - Lindholm - Mikheyev

Podkolzin - Blueger - Joshua

Lafferty - Suter - PDG

 

Hughes - Hronek

Zadorov - Tanev

Soucy - Juulsen

 

Demko

Silovs

 

It'd be nice to have another decent defenceman in there but we can't let Lindholm walk after the haul we just gave Calgary.

 

Lindholm will be quite the commodity come free agency. You may say he doesn't deserve 8 mill but other teams will think otherwise. A lot of teams will be calling Lindholm's agent this summer, thats for damn sure

[Rekker]

6 hours ago, filthy animal said:

 

Lindholm will be quite the commodity come free agency. You may say he doesn't deserve 8 mill but other teams will think otherwise. A lot of teams will be calling Lindholm's agent this summer, thats for damn sure

I wonder if Lindholm isn't re-signed, they can trade his rights prior to UFA? Some teams will want him badly. IE Boston. 

[wai_lai416]

51 minutes ago, Rekker said:

I wonder if Lindholm isn't re-signed, they can trade his rights prior to UFA? Some teams will want him badly. IE Boston. 

it might fetch u a 6th or 7th.. hardly worth while.. maybe a 5th if someone is desperate enough.. ain't going to get anything worthwhile for a ufa rights no matter how desperate a team wants a player.. there's no guarantee a player will even sign with you after you trade for their rights.. and teams ain't going to let you talk to a player prior to trading for their rights.. as they can easily talk a contract and then don't go thru with the trade and wait till july 1st.

[Gawdzukes]

As far as signing them now. I think it might be a mistake. We still need to evaluate a full season in order to make the tough decisions. Cole will be a wait and see guy, as it looks like Zadorov will be too. Petey already said he's waiting until the summer and Hronek will be nothing but cheaper as we go. The forwards have so many possibilities we need to see what shakes out. In addition if we were to trade a player it probably needs to wait until the offseason as we need all of our players right now.

 

Joshua and Blueger should try to be retained but I think it makes more sense to wait see how the whole line up will fit together first. Lindholm is also a huge consideration and $$$ but we haven't seen him play yet so another reason to wait. I don't think we'll be signing anyone to bargain contracts now, might as well wait.

[Gawdzukes]

On 1/29/2024 at 3:33 AM, Tofu_Bud said:

I just hope Bluegar loves it here and gets re-signed.  I like what Joshua has shown this year too but I often wonder how disciplined he is once he cashes in.

 

Great point and I agree. I'd be very worried about just randomly giving one player a pay bump. Could see the motvation everyone has change. It wouldn't be the first time. I remember one year back around 2000 when the Flames were off to a great start. Turek went something crazy like 19-2 and was playing great until the signed him to a big deal at the time. Team and Turek went on to just suck after that signing. It's like it messed with everyone's head and why they were doing so well.

 

On 1/29/2024 at 7:46 AM, Ghostsof1915 said:

Trade Kuz.

Trade Mik.

Let Myers walk.

Problem solved.

 

Step 1

 

On 1/29/2024 at 8:18 AM, IBatch said:

Maybe we should get a room?

 

The OP is right though, Allvins going to be a busy man this off season (and before too I think).    If anything, believe he's going to be working on a Kuzmenko change.    That's another horse to beat.    Not  worrying about what he's going to do anymore.   That Beau and Zadarov thing, plus the Horvat and Hronek thing, and all the players he brought in to fill out the roster last summer makes it a lot easier as a fan.    

 

Kuzmenko change complete. Gotta like it hey?

 

On 1/31/2024 at 6:26 PM, Agkr3w said:

Have to think he's gone at deadline

 

 

He is gone, and we improved.

 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Great point and I agree. I'd be very worried about just randomly giving one player a pay bump. Could see the motvation everyone has change. It wouldn't be the first time. I remember one year back around 2000 when the Flames were off to a great start. Turek went something crazy like 19-2 and was playing great until the signed him to a big deal at the time. Team and Turek went on to just suck after that signing. It's like it messed with everyone's head and why they were doing so well.

 

 

Step 1

 

 

Kuzmenko change complete. Gotta like it hey?

 

 

He is gone, and we improved.

 

Yep.   Lindholm.     Next up?  Someone who's big, tough and will protect the crown jewels.    And won't hurt us on the scoreboard.   Keep saying Marroon, but maybe what I mean is a guy like Marroon was a few years ago.    Deslaruier's?    A 4C upgrade maybe.     At this point, just sit back and enjoy the ride. 

[Gawdzukes]

19 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   Lindholm.     Next up?  Someone who's big, tough and will protect the crown jewels.    And won't hurt us on the scoreboard.   Keep saying Marroon, but maybe what I mean is a guy like Marroon was a few years ago.    Deslaruier's?    A 4C upgrade maybe.     At this point, just sit back and enjoy the ride. 

 

Deslauriers ... sign me up. I like Maroon to if the guy from the last couple playoffs shows up. Yup, enjoy the road ahead.