Constant Disrespect for Canucks Players is Annoying as F

[HKSR]

25 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

So you create a thread, drawing attention and more views to an article, to complain about Miller getting "absolutely no respect" because he wasn't ranked higher than a goalie who plays a very different position.

 

This is the type of thread that give Canucks fans a bad look.

Well, when you look at the above comparing Demko's numbers vs Hellebuyck's, you can see how much of a discrepancy there is.  If Hellebuyck was 12th and Demko was 18th, while Miller was 9th, it'd make a whole lot more sense.

[RawkDrummer]

T Toronto

S Sports

N Network

[Rip The Mesh]

The definition of toughness in the National Hockey League is always evolving, and the Vancouver Canucks are doing their best to stay ahead of the curve.

When current Canucks head coach Rick Tocchet played the game, toughness mostly revolved around dropping the mitts and chucking knuckles. But as time has passed in the NHL, the definition of toughness does not only revolve around fighting. Playing the man, chipping the body, boxing out and an aggressive in-your-face forecheck are the things that matter most these days.

There’s also been a focus on mental toughness, and that is something that many in the locker room believe is critical to continued success.

A pretty tough player in his day, Tocchet believes that teams are intimidating from the way they play instead of how the players act. In 2024, the Canucks bench boss sees toughness as strength in numbers and not in how many punches you can throw.

“Sometimes, you're going to get hit and sometimes you might not get your way but it's the next man up. It’s what you are going to do on the next shift to show the other team that you're not going to shy away from physicality. That's what I really like,” said Tocchet.

One of the Canucks’ keywords this season has been pressure and that requires toughness. Consistency is a part of toughness because it’s easy to slack for a split second or on one of your shifts, but this team is committed to being consistent on every shift and sticking to their structure so that they can hold onto the puck for long stretches.

“Being able to continue to play in waves just keep pressuring, pressuring, pressuring and pressuring, it's really hard for a team to feel confident and feel good and get on the offensive when we have the puck the whole time and bring pressure when we're hanging on to it. We can kind of dictate the game and determine where the game goes,” said Ian Cole.

Toughness can be viewed in so many different ways but one thing that was most consistent from speaking with the players was the ‘pack mentality’. J.T. Miller spoke about how important it is for each player to know that the guy beside them has their back. Whether it’s Nikita Zadorov dropping the gloves after a hit or Noah Juulsen pushing opposing players away from the crease after a cover, this support from teammates is huge and players will be asked to be even more physical in the coming months.

“It's infectious,” said Tocchet about his team playing with a pack mentality. “It gives our team juice knowing that we have people that are going to back each other up. I think it's terrific.”

Veteran defencemanTyler Myers admitted that having tough coaches like Adam Foote, Mike Yeo and Rick Tocchet makes being tough something that is essentially mixed into your DNA. The style that the coaching staff is asking from the players requires them to be tough.

Myers views it as the team maturing and growing together as a group as well as the new faces in the room helping establish a winning culture. Players like Ian Cole and Teddy Blueger have Stanley Cup rings in their possession and were big parts of the depth that a Stanley Cup contender requires.

“Guys that have been here in the last four or five years, we've gone through a lot, and coming into this year, we added a lot of really good new faces to the room -- a lot of really good new voices, guys that have been through it,” said Myers. “We're just gelling right now as a group. We have a really good room, and all the guys play for each other in here.”

As the team gels, players are beginning to build comfortability in their roles. Dakota Joshua has been one player who is finding his spot in the lineup and thriving in his role. Joshua is one of the most physical players on the Canucks and a lot of that is because of how his line forechecks and protects the guts of the ice.

Joshua heads into the All-Star break with the second-most hits in the NHL. He’s totaled up 143 hits through 48 games and his head coach has said repeatedly that playing that type of game is going to be the way that Joshua pays his mortgage for a long time.

Another showcase of toughness is shot-blocking. Knowing that what you’re about to do will hurt does something to your brain but through those thoughts, Canucks players are protecting the net and sacrificing their body to help their goalie. Ian Cole leads the team with 99 blocked shots this season and Tyler Myers comes in with 93. This puts both Cole and Myers in the top-30 league-wide for blocked shots.

Myers spoke about toughness being more than just dropping the gloves, blocking shots or throwing big hits. He likes the way that this team has grown and remains mentally tough no matter the circumstance.

“I look at toughness a little bit differently," said Myers. "I think our mental toughness as a group is a lot better than in years past. Obviously, we have more size on the back end. I think physically, we've just come together as a team in that sense. We're sticking up for each other. We play for each other. We battle for each other. I’ve liked our mental toughness, and the way we handled different situations that are thrown at us. I think we're showing a lot more maturity that way.”

Mental toughness can be burying emotion at times or just being smart with your stick as well.

12 players on the Canucks’ roster have drawn more penalties than they’ve taken this season.

Elias Pettersson and Conor Garland have been the best in that regard. Pettersson has drawn 16 penalties and only taken two of his own while Garland has drawn 14 and taken four.

Toughness and intelligence are going to be critical for this team as they progress.

Though those two words won’t go hand-in-hand that often, the team will need to be intelligent with their toughness as they continue to play this new brand of Canucks hockey. We know that this team is at their best when they are sticking to the coaching staff’s structure and that structure requires an equal amount of toughness and intelligence.

This is NHL toughness in 2024 and the Canucks will continue to build on developing a winning culture off of the pillars that they are establishing this season.

As witnessed coming out of training camp, it’s pretty clear that these players have each other’s back. Not only do they have the size to back it up, but they also have the mindset, mentality, and motivation to play a tough brand of hockey.

A Canucks brand of hockey.

An identity they will continue to follow and build upon as things get tougher down the stretch.

It’s not all about dropping the gloves. There’s a new way to intimidate, and it’s being built in the Canucks’ locker room.

[GrammaInTheTub]

5 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Hughes and Makar are 5-6, one could argue that Hughes has been better this season but Makar's overall career has been more impressive. Sports media is biased and influenced by a number of factors, but at the end of the day Hughes was still ranked six. That's nothing to sniff at. 

 

Pettersson is a bigger star leaguewide than Miller, he simply is. He's younger, he's easier to sell in the media, and he's likelier to keep it going over the longer term.  But Miller was still ranked 12 across the league instead of 10. That's not disrespect, that's quibbling imo. 

 

They even had Demko ranked 18. That's four Canucks in the top 20 and the Canucks are being disrespected? By a TSN outlet that doesn't usually do the Canucks any favours? We almost have three players in the top 10, isn't that recognition enough? I could care less whether the numbers are a little off here and there, lists are subjective. 

 

Agree completely. I think there is a fair bit of projection going on in these rankings as well. So I bet it was difficult for these writers to even to to terms with placing JT that high (see his non ranking previous). I think it’s one of the more fair rankings for Canucks players we’ve seen in recent years. 

[wai_lai416]

7 hours ago, HKSR said:

Nitpick?

 

Hellebuyck:  23 Wins, 2.20 GAA, 0.924 SV%, 1017 SA, 2 Shutouts

Demko:  26 Wins, 2.44 GAA, 0.920 SV%, 1061 SA, 5 Shutouts

 

So that makes Hellebuyck 9th in ranking vs 18th for Demko?  They should be WAY closer in the ranking. 

the only stat that matters at the end of day.. gaa sv%.. and 1 advance stats goal saved above average which hellebuyck have a very healthy lead over demko and the rest of the league. 

[bishopshodan]

8 hours ago, Master Mind said:

This is the type of thread that give Canucks fans a bad look.

 

Don't sweat it.

I make Canucks fans look soo good that it will all balance out. 

 

[Iron Man]

11 hours ago, Strawbone said:

What does the F stand for? I'm not up on the internet lingo kids are using these days. 

 

 

[IBatch]

If you read the article, some of the reasoning behind whom they picked, is explained, same with how close it was between QHs and Makar (one vote).      Yes maybe they got it wrong with Rantanen over Miller.   And maybe EP and Miller should be inverted.    The scoring race is tight enough outside MckInnon and Kucherov, to look deeper.   Personally don't take issue with this.    We know QHs is the best right now.   And his spot is fine.    JT Miller over Crosby?   Tough to do that but he's close enough not to be overly slighted.  

 

Also for sure this list is recency biased as it should be, that's the point.     

 

One of the take aways for me anyways, which I absolutely love, is aside from a Mario or Gretzky, this leagues back to where it should be scoring wise.    Mathews is on pace for 70 goals ... two guys could break 140.    Two defenseman could make it to 100.    Goalies aren't worse, the talent level combined with rule changes (3 x 3 OT, no redline) has finally, after decades, got back to what I grew up with.   

 

It's fantastic to see.   We sent more guys to the all-star game then anyone, and if it was the old rules, you can bet Hronek also would join them too.     Mckinnon and McDavid are super-stars.   Kucherov too.    So is QHs.   And Makar.   The rest, well by pure definition, to be super is superior to your peer group of stars, and it becomes awfully subjective after that.  

 

Edit:  On the scoring race, usually things tighten up somewhat after the all-star break and down the stretch.    It won't look the same.    I do think though, if our team can remain healthy,  not much will change with Vancouver's guys.    Because Tochett hockey is designed for the post season.    Some guys won't play 82 games, they will get rested.     One thing is for certain though, this year, is proving last years scoring race was no fluke.    

Edited January 31 by IBatch

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

the only stat that matters at the end of day.. gaa sv%.. and 1 advance stats goal saved above average which hellebuyck have a very healthy lead over demko and the rest of the league. 

GAA compared to the back-up's stats ... that's a bit of a team stat too.    Hellebuyck, is also a Hart trophy candidate right now as well.    It's close, but agree they got this one right.   He's the best in the world.     

[Rip The Mesh]

Press it and it shows more; The last one on this list in particular. 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

GAA compared to the back-up's stats ... that's a bit of a team stat too.    Hellebuyck, is also a Hart trophy candidate right now as well.    It's close, but agree they got this one right.   He's the best in the world.     

yup if he keep this up the rest of the season wouldn't be surprise if he wins the hart too. Demko is a big reason why canucks are where they are.. but so is hughes ep miller boeser.. Hellebuyck is the only reason winnipeg is where they are in the standing.. keep in mind they lost their top scorer for 25% of the games played so far in conner and also lost vilardi for 1/3 of the games so far.. they are winning most of their games by 1 or 2 goals and not like us if the goalie is off we'll outscore the problem.. they are like bottom half of the league in scoring.

[DSVII]

No news is good news. I want them to down play us all the way to a cup haha. Anything more is an unwanted distraction that comes with unneeded pressure.

[Barnstorm]

26 minutes ago, DSVII said:

No news is good news. I want them to down play us all the way to a cup haha. Anything more is an unwanted distraction that comes with unneeded pressure.

Walk softly and carry a big stick. 

[Gawdzukes]

22 hours ago, HKSR said:

Nitpick?

 

Hellebuyck:  23 Wins, 2.20 GAA, 0.924 SV%, 1017 SA, 2 Shutouts

Demko:  26 Wins, 2.44 GAA, 0.920 SV%, 1061 SA, 5 Shutouts

 

So that makes Hellebuyck 9th in ranking vs 18th for Demko?  They should be WAY closer in the ranking. 

 

Maybe, you know watching them play and considering their current value to the team and the league. Some dude out there ranks the best goalies in the world Hellebuyck #1, and Demko #2. He's got both a better goals against and a better save percentage. He's probably more of the reason Winnipeg is doing so well. We've also got Miller, Hughes, Petey, Boeser, and the rest of the team playing lights out. Very reasonable ranking.

 

 

What a bunch of nonsense. Like the other poster said this is the stuff that gives fans of a team a bad name. This is even weaker than most stuff. Complaining just to complain.

 

 

 

 

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Maybe, you know watching them play and considering their current value to the team and the league. Some dude out there ranks the best goalies in the world Hellebuyck #1, and Demko #2. He's got both a better goals against and a better save percentage. He's probably more of the reason Winnipeg is doing so well. We've also got Miller, Hughes, Petey, Boeser, and the rest of the team playing lights out. Very reasonable ranking.

 

 

What a bunch of nonsense. Like the other poster said this is the stuff that gives fans of a team a bad name. This is even weaker than most stuff. Complaining just to complain.

 

 

 

 

We all have our opinions and are entitled to have them.  I think Hellebuyck and Demko are closer than what these rankings indicate (9th vs 18th).  We'll see what it looks like at season's end.  We're talking an 8 goal difference in GA reflecting a 0.24 GAA (they've both played 35 games).  Demko has faced more shots, but the sv% difference is only 0.004.  Demko also has 5 shutouts vs 2 for Hellebuyck. 

 

A couple games where Demko lets in 1 goal and Hellebuyck lets in 3 or 4, and the numbers are already dramatically closer. 

 

We're talking marginal differences here.

[Bure_Pavel]

22 hours ago, HKSR said:

Nitpick?

 

Hellebuyck:  23 Wins, 2.20 GAA, 0.924 SV%, 1017 SA, 2 Shutouts

Demko:  26 Wins, 2.44 GAA, 0.920 SV%, 1061 SA, 5 Shutouts

 

So that makes Hellebuyck 9th in ranking vs 18th for Demko?  They should be WAY closer in the ranking. 

Canucks also have three players in the top 12 on this list, Hellebuyck right now is the guy in Winnipeg no other player in the top 25 of this list. All 25 players on this list are star players except maybe Hyman.

Edited January 31 by Bure_Pavel

[HKSR]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

Canucks also have three players in the top 12 on this list, Hellebuyck right now is the guy in Winnipeg no other player in the top 25 of this list. 

That's because WPG plays a very defensive oriented game.  Their team has bought into defence first at all costs.  That's why they (as a team) had not let in more than 3 goals in a game for 34 straight contests.  The modern day record?  The SUPER DEFENSIVE Minnesota Wild of 2015.  That's another big reason why I think Hellebuyck is overrated on this list.  He is a function of an incredibly stingy defensive team and structure with WPG.  Put Demko in WPG and he would blow Hellebuyck's numbers away.

[Bure_Pavel]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's because WPG plays a very defensive oriented game.  Their team has bought into defence first at all costs.  That's why they (as a team) had not let in more than 3 goals in a game for 34 straight contests.  The modern day record?  The SUPER DEFENSIVE Minnesota Wild of 2015.  That's another big reason why I think Hellebuyck is overrated on this list.  He is a function of an incredibly stingy defensive team and structure with WPG.  Put Demko in WPG and he would blow Hellebuyck's numbers away.

Im not buying it both goalies have been outstanding, but slight edge to Hellebuyck so far though.

 

Edited January 31 by Bure_Pavel

[Gawdzukes]

39 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We all have our opinions and are entitled to have them.  I think Hellebuyck and Demko are closer than what these rankings indicate (9th vs 18th).  We'll see what it looks like at season's end.  We're talking an 8 goal difference in GA reflecting a 0.24 GAA (they've both played 35 games).  Demko has faced more shots, but the sv% difference is only 0.004.  Demko also has 5 shutouts vs 2 for Hellebuyck. 

 

A couple games where Demko lets in 1 goal and Hellebuyck lets in 3 or 4, and the numbers are already dramatically closer. 

 

We're talking marginal differences here.

 

You're taking a completely subjective opinion way to personally, but go ahead and work yourself up about nothing if you want. Goalies are super hard to rank amongst other players so the numbers are meaningless anyway. They could be 1 and 2 ... 4 and 18 ... 6 and 9 ... 22 and 23. The number just doesn't even matter really. They put Helle ahead of Demko and that makes total sense. Demko has faced more shots only because he has played more games. Shutouts are nice but they aren't a final determining factor in rating a goalie.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, and so is the guy that did the ranking. However, note that just about everyone in this thread agrees with the other guy. Make your own up though and put it on twitter then. Problem solved.

 

Like you said marginal differences (subjective opinion). You should just be happy he's in the conversation.

Edited January 31 by Gawdzukes

[HKSR]

9 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

You're taking a completely subjective opinion way to personally, but go ahead and work yourself up about nothing if you want. Goalies are super hard to rank amongst other players so the numbers are meaningless anyway. They could be 1 and 2 ... 4 and 18 ... 6 and 9 ... 22 and 23. The number just doesn't even matter really. They put Helle ahead of Demko and that makes total sense. Demko has faced more shots only because he has played more games. Shutouts are nice but they aren't a final determining factor in rating a goalie.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, and so is the guy that did the ranking. However, note that just about everyone in this thread agrees with the other guy. Make your own up though and put it on twitter then. Problem solved.

 

Like you said marginal differences (subjective opinion). You should just be happy he's in the conversation.

Again, your opinion vs mine.  I respectfully disagree.  Just keep in mind I didn't say hellebuyck shouldn't be ranked ahead of Demko.  I just said they should be closer.  Just as their stats reflect.

 

Edited January 31 by HKSR

[kilgore]

Just tuned in to say...Ain't it grand to be a fan of a team who now argues about how their goaltender is rated slightly below the one rated #1 in the league? 

 

1st place problems.

[Gawdzukes]

51 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Again, your opinion vs mine.  I respectfully disagree.  Just keep in mind I didn't say hellebuyck shouldn't be ranked ahead of Demko.  I just said they should be closer.  Just as their stats reflect.

 

 

Fair enough. It just seems silly to be concerned about a 12 vs 18 in a subjective ranking of the 25 best players in the world. I guess that part is lost on you. It's clear Demko's #'s are far closer to Helle than Panarin, Draisaitl, Reinhart, Nylander, and Hyman. I checked and those 5 don't even have one single shut out amongst all of them. I'm shocked. Utter Hypocrisy! 

 

Keep fighting the good fight. This is a very important battle in a long battle of wrongs vs Vancouver and our hard done by franchise. 

Edited January 31 by Gawdzukes

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:04 AM, HKSR said:

 

2. JT Miller gets absolutely no respect

How does the league's 4th highest scorer, who wins 54% of his faceoffs (5th most FO wins in the entire NHL), kills penalties, basically does it all finish at 12th on the list?  Disrespected all the time.  Honestly, I think if their media actually followed the Canucks closer, they'd realize JT Miller should be ahead of Elias Pettersson. 

 

People have a set a narrative with Miller. He continues to evolve, grow, and defy perceptions.

 

Each time he improves, leads, and defies those set perceptions, people don't know what to do because they have to look inward at how their perceptions were wrong.

 

So, it's easier for people to say nothing, ignore his performance/production, or not include him at all. 

[Captkirk888]

6 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Press it and it shows more; The last one on this list in particular. 

What impresses me the most is our 30 regulation wins. Meanwhile the Loser Laffs have a whopping 16 RW. Canada’s darlings indeed.

[DownUndaCanuck]

McDavid is above Kucherov despite being almost 20 points behind him in scoring. Miller's not better than many of the players ahead of him but he's far better than Crosby right now and arguably even Petey and I'd say Rantanen so deserves to be 10OA. Hughes and Makar are forever going to be tied, I agree that objectively Hughes is having a better year so far but they'll never drop that.