Viking Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Jeremy’s “win now and build for the future plan,” (I probably wouldn’t do the following but it has crossed my mind). 1) Trade for Rasmus Andersson (Myers + Willander). 2) Win 2024 Stanley Cup 3) Extend Lindholm in the off season 4) Trade Pettersson for a boatload of picks and prospects so that we avoid a $10.5+ million dollar contract. We make a massive push to win the cup this year but we also keep filling the pipeline. It will likely not happen but imagine if we went with JT and Lindholm as top 2c’s both with 8m or less cap hits and we did a gigantic trade before the draft… EP to Columbus signed to 8yr 104m deal 13m cap hit. to Columbus for: Kent Johnson, David Jiricek plus what else…!?!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Viking said: It will likely not happen but imagine if we went with JT and Lindholm as top 2c’s both with 8m or less cap hits and we did a gigantic trade before the draft… EP to Columbus signed to 8yr 104m deal 13m cap hit. to Columbus for: Kent Johnson, David Jiricek plus what else…!?!? It would pretty amazing in my opinion (although many casual fans would be upset). Like you say, our top two centers would be signed to 8 million dollars or less and we’d have an amazing internal cap structure. Furthermore, moving Pettersson for your proposed package would replenish all/most of the picks/prospects that we will have given up during this run (I’m still holding on to hope for Andersson or Tanev from Calgary). Essentially, we would have had our cake (going for it this year) and eaten it as well (replenishing the prospect pool with the Pettersson deal). Edited February 1 by Jeremy Hronek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 8-8.5Mx8 seems more likely imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 minutes ago, Coconuts said: 8-8.5Mx8 seems more likely imo. IF we can somehow get all 3 of Petey, Lindy, Miller for <30 mil I think we'll be in great shape. As the cap goes up we're going to see some insanely (for NHL) numbers 2 seasons from now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 15 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said: So - how do we arrange our top 6 now that Lindholm is here? Pettersson-Miller-Boeser Suter-Lindholm-Mikheyev Suter-Miller-Boeser Mikheyev-Pettersson-Lindholm etc. Personally? I go with the Lotto Line + make the Lindholm/Suter/Mikheyev line a shut down line. I’d personally spread out the talent. Also Lindholm and JT are 55% and 54% on face off winning percentages where Pettersson is 48% I’d imagine Petey in any scenario stays left wing. So it should be.. Pettersson-Lindholm-Mikheyev Suter-Miller-Boeser I think with this scenario you get more from Lindholm! Also the Canucks have a bit more danger on every line that teams will have to pick where to put their best defenders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 10 hours ago, Viking said: It will likely not happen but imagine if we went with JT and Lindholm as top 2c’s both with 8m or less cap hits and we did a gigantic trade before the draft… EP to Columbus signed to 8yr 104m deal 13m cap hit. to Columbus for: Kent Johnson, David Jiricek plus what else…!?!? LOL why? EP is younger,better and with him we have a window for a cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1laren Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 2/2/2024 at 3:02 AM, Bob Long said: IF we can somehow get all 3 of Petey, Lindy, Miller for <30 mil I think we'll be in great shape. As the cap goes up we're going to see some insanely (for NHL) numbers 2 seasons from now. Miller has been a top 10 scorer in the league since joining the Canucks I believe and is signed for 8m. No chance Lindholm gets a similar deal at the same age. If he wants to play in a city like Van for a team like the Canucks, the number has to start with a 7. I would be comfortable with 7 years/$50 mil. Petey at 8 years/$98 mil. All 3 locked up for at least 7 years at 27.25 mil. Podk, Hoggy and Raty move up next season. Resign Joshua, DeSmith, Blueger. Let Myers and Cole walk Zadorov for 5 years/18.75 mill Hronek 8 years/ 54 mill Tanev 2 years/ 6 mill Lindholm Pettersson Hoglander Podkolzin Miller Boeser Joshua Blueger Garland Aman Suter Mikhayev Hughes Tanev ????? Hronek Soucy Zadorov can anyone tell me if that fits the cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 He's not producing much as a top line center on a bad team in Calgary so wonder if he'll produce as our 2C with average-ish wingers on a good team, or be deployed more defensively? If he gets back to a 30-40G scoring pace we've got no chance and he'll probably command 7-8M rightly so. If he more realistically stays in the 20-30G range then maybe we can get him for 5x6M and just give him Kuzmenko money essentially. We just paid far too much for him to just be a rental. A first, 3/4th and two defensive prospects plus a middle-6 winger is far too much for a rental, Allvin has to be thinking of getting him back and flipping Mikheyev/Garland to make it work. I'm sure after the playoffs we'll be able to flip one of Mikheyev or Garland for a pick (2nd or 3rd?) and then solidify our centers (Miller, Petey, Lindholm, Blueger, Suter, Aman, Raty) and then just roll cheap UFA/AHL wingers across them. I'd much rather that than keeping the two 5M wingers and losing Lindholm to free agency after all we just paid for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 28 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: He's not producing much as a top line center on a bad team in Calgary so wonder if he'll produce as our 2C with average-ish wingers on a good team, or be deployed more defensively? If he gets back to a 30-40G scoring pace we've got no chance and he'll probably command 7-8M rightly so. If he more realistically stays in the 20-30G range then maybe we can get him for 5x6M and just give him Kuzmenko money essentially. We just paid far too much for him to just be a rental. A first, 3/4th and two defensive prospects plus a middle-6 winger is far too much for a rental, Allvin has to be thinking of getting him back and flipping Mikheyev/Garland to make it work. I'm sure after the playoffs we'll be able to flip one of Mikheyev or Garland for a pick (2nd or 3rd?) and then solidify our centers (Miller, Petey, Lindholm, Blueger, Suter, Aman, Raty) and then just roll cheap UFA/AHL wingers across them. I'd much rather that than keeping the two 5M wingers and losing Lindholm to free agency after all we just paid for him. He's making just under 5M, this will likely be his last big contract, more than likely he's not taking 6M He reportedly turned down 8-9 in Calgary, if a team gets him in the high 7's or for around 8M that's probably solid value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: He's making just under 5M, this will likely be his last big contract, more than likely he's not taking 6M He reportedly turned down 8-9 in Calgary, if a team gets him in the high 7's or for around 8M that's probably solid value Yes but we'd have to compare him to who we have on our team. He was playing top line minutes and will soon be playing around 18 minutes a night at best. He may squeak onto our top line PP but may not. He'll be deployed far more defensively going forward so his stats will take a hit. Miller is a 100pt center costing us 8M. Petey is going to be a 100pt center who will cost us 11M. Lindholm is right now a 60 point center so doesn't deserve 8M. He's far removed from a big 40G season. If he takes off with the Canucks then maybe he deserves some big bucks but he has been pretty bad this season so far. If he continues this current scoring/point production I think he deserves around 6-7M at best. Some silly team might offer him a chance and big bucks to try and recreate this big offensive seasons he's had in the past but they'd be weary. Bo got 8.5M and people thought that was an over-payment but he's around a PPG and Lindholm isn't anywhere near that so far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 4 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Yes but we'd have to compare him to who we have on our team. He was playing top line minutes and will soon be playing around 18 minutes a night at best. He may squeak onto our top line PP but may not. He'll be deployed far more defensively going forward so his stats will take a hit. Miller is a 100pt center costing us 8M. Petey is going to be a 100pt center who will cost us 11M. Lindholm is right now a 60 point center so doesn't deserve 8M. He's far removed from a big 40G season. If he takes off with the Canucks then maybe he deserves some big bucks but he has been pretty bad this season so far. If he continues this current scoring/point production I think he deserves around 6-7M at best. Some silly team might offer him a chance and big bucks to try and recreate this big offensive seasons he's had in the past but they'd be weary. Bo got 8.5M and people thought that was an over-payment but he's around a PPG and Lindholm isn't anywhere near that so far this year. He'll almost certainly be playing top six minutes alongside either Pettersson or Miller, and more than likely he won't just squeak onto our top powerplay, as one of our more talented forwards he'll deserve to be there. I don't see why he'd be deployed any more defensively than he was in Calgary. He's proven he's capable of producing alongside top talent while being an excellent center, he did it with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, he'll likely get a chance to do just that here. Miller doesn't magically set a bar that other other players won't blow by because he's putting up points. Miller signed his current deal September 2nd, 2022, when still had a season left on his deal. He was not a pending UFA, Lindholm is. He was also signed under a flat cap, Lindholm won't be, the cap will be going up 4-4.5Mish. A rising cap will affect how contracts rise, top players eat most of cap increases. Player asks are fluid alongside the cap. Lindholm has leverage that Miller never bothered to utilize, Miller took the guaranteed money after what very well could have been a one and done career season, he didn't bet on himself the way Pettersson has, and he gave up money by doing so at the end of the day. Pettersson will almost certainly cost us more than 11M. Lindholm will be the best UFA center available, it's not a matter of whether he'd get 8-9M as a UFA, it's a matter of who'd give it to him. And it won't be silly, it'll be market value for a Selke caliber two-way center who'd probably be a top line center on some teams. Bo was always going to get what he got, he had UFA leverage, Lindholm will likely be similar. Maybe he takes a bit less to play on a more competitive team but he'll likely make closer to 8 than 6, it's not as if he owes the Canucks anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 x 7 Empties know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 10 minutes ago, Alflives said: 7 x 7 Empties know. Off season we trade Garland,Let Myers walk or give him three mill for two years. Let Cole walk. Sign EL for three years at 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 minutes ago, cripplereh said: Off season we trade Garland,Let Myers walk or give him three mill for two years. Let Cole walk. Sign EL for three years at 7 Empties are saying EL would get 7 years on the open market. We could offer up the extra year and go 8 to lessen the yearly cap allocation? 6.5 x 8 years? Still have to move off Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 minutes ago, Alflives said: Empties are saying EL would get 7 years on the open market. We could offer up the extra year and go 8 to lessen the yearly cap allocation? 6.5 x 8 years? Still have to move off Garland. With Miller that is very risky to have two players going late 30's. That's why if he lives it here I'd do three as he will get one more contract after either with us or ufa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
112 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Realistically Lindholm could get much more money and a good term if he tests the UFA market. The Canucks are not going to be negotiating with Lindholm from a position of strength with the cap situation they're facing over future seasons. I see the trade as a rental at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On 1/31/2024 at 9:55 PM, Reznor said: Guys, I'm seriously concerned about his metrics. For those who haven't read this article: https://canucksarmy.com/news/why-vancouver-canucks-should-not-trade-flames-elias-lindholm That isn't a trend I'm interested in extending for right now. As mentioned, it's insurance as a 1c if talks with Petey can't come to fruition as well - but no need to rush it. Play it out, give him another taste of being on a good, contending team and if the stars align and the cap gods allow, perhaps an extension will be in order after the cup is hoisted. And the article next day: https://canucksarmy.com/news/why-canucks-fans-ecstatic-addition-elias-lindholm What an absolute rubbish group of child bloggers / lame ass reporters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I have been thinking . Say we do find a way to get EL a contract. Next year we could see Podz ,Bains and maybe even Lekker be on the team. Think this is reasons why we made a deal like this so moving forward we have three centers to help the young guys. Just have to make a trade with either Garland or Brock, plus let a few like Cole and Myers go to make it work and will get threw the IEL buyout yet sporting a great team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 15 hours ago, Coconuts said: He's making just under 5M, this will likely be his last big contract, more than likely he's not taking 6M He reportedly turned down 8-9 in Calgary, if a team gets him in the high 7's or for around 8M that's probably solid value We can offer him the extra year so we will most likely offer him an 8 year deal between $7-7.5 million. That’s between $56-60 million in total money. Another team would need to offer him $8-8.5 for the same total money, so that extra year could allow us to get him under $8 million. Also, I don’t see Allvin paying him more than Miller, so for sure our offer will be starting with a 7. Sure, he may have been offered $8.5 by Calgary, but little Johnny was offered $10.5 by Calgary and still walked for less. Same with Tkachuk. If Lindholm wants to win cups then he may take a bit less to stay here. You never know, Petey might do the same too. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, cripplereh said: I have been thinking . Say we do find a way to get EL a contract. Next year we could see Podz ,Bains and maybe even Lekker be on the team. Think this is reasons why we made a deal like this so moving forward we have three centers to help the young guys. Just have to make a trade with either Garland or Brock, plus let a few like Cole and Myers go to make it work and will get threw the IEL buyout yet sporting a great team. I could see all of Podkolzin, Bains and Lekkerimäki on the team next season. They could replace Blueger and Garland to make the cap work so we can re-sign Lindholm and all of the other free agents. Pettersson Lindholm Mikheyev Höglander Miller Boeser Joshua Suter Lekkerimäki Podkolzin Åman Lafferty Bains This is still a very strong lineup and can be even better than this year. Lekkerimäki can start on the 3rd line and be the play driver to replace Garland. He is Swedish so I am sure his defensive game is good enough to play 3rd line. We could get an asset back for Garland too, maybe a 3rd pairing RHD. So we don’t need to re-sign Cole either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: We can offer him the extra year so we will most likely offer him an 8 year deal between $7-7.5 million. That’s between $56-60 million in total money. Another team would need to offer him $8-8.5 for the same total money, so that extra year could allow us to get him under $8 million. Also, I don’t see Allvin paying him more than Miller, so for sure our offer will be starting with a 7. Sure, he may have been offered $8.5 by Calgary, but little Johnny was offered $10.5 by Calgary and still walked for less. Same with Tkachuk. If Lindholm wants to win cups then he may take a bit less to stay here. You never know, Petey might do the same too. We will see. The extra year could bring things down, certainly. I don't buy the more than Miller thing though, folks keep pointing him out as if he's some hard cap gauge when he's not. All of Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko could make more than him sooner than later (assuming Boeser keeps it up). I don't see why Lindholm couldn't make equal or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 18 minutes ago, Coconuts said: The extra year could bring things down, certainly. I don't buy the more than Miller thing though, folks keep pointing him out as if he's some hard cap gauge when he's not. All of Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko could make more than him sooner than later (assuming Boeser keeps it up). I don't see why Lindholm couldn't make equal or more. Petey and Hughes are superstars, so of course they will make more than Miller. If Demko is anywhere close to winning the Vezina he will make more than Miller. too. However, we aren't going to be paying our 2C who is inferior to Miller more than Miller. Boeser will probably be around the same as Miller, depends how many goals he scores. If he becomes a 50 goal scorer then he probably gets a little more than Miller too. If Boeser want $9-10 million, then he probably gets traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Petey and Hughes are superstars, so of course they will make more than Miller. If Demko is anywhere close to winning the Vezina he will make more than Miller. too. However, we aren't going to be paying our 2C who is inferior to Miller more than Miller. Boeser will probably be around the same as Miller, depends how many goals he scores. If he becomes a 50 goal scorer then he probably gets a little more than Miller too. If Boeser want $9-10 million, then he probably gets traded. See, that's part of what gets me, that does happen as the cap rises and contract realities shift. You mentioned the eight years, but presumably that's what Calgary was offering him as well. You yourself said you could see a longer contract between 7-7.75M, I don't know why folks get hung up on the extra 250k. Miller didn't put himself into a position to utilize his UFA leverage, Lindholm has it. I've no issue with Lindholm making the same or a little, I'd rather allocate money to the top six if that's what it takes, it's not as if we're making ourselves Toronto level top heavy by doing so. Miller is currently outpacing his contract and providing surplus value, you could point to Miller whereas Lindholm could point to Dubois and his 8.5M. I'm also operating under the assumption that Lindholm will see a bump in production playing alongside more talented linemates, and that one of him or Pettersson centers their line. You say he's a 2C, and he could be, but he could also be a top line winger depending on which line you view as being the top line going forward. Personally, I don't think it'll be Miller's as time marches on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: See, that's part of what gets me, that does happen as the cap rises and contract realities shift. You mentioned the eight years, but presumably that's what Calgary was offering him as well. You yourself said you could see a longer contract between 7-7.75M, I don't know why folks get hung up on the extra 250k. Miller didn't put himself into a position to utilize his UFA leverage, Lindholm has it. I've no issue with Lindholm making the same or a little, I'd rather allocate money to the top six if that's what it takes, it's not as if we're making ourselves Toronto level top heavy by doing so. Miller is currently outpacing his contract and providing surplus value, you could point to Miller whereas Lindholm could point to Dubois and his 8.5M. I'm also operating under the assumption that Lindholm will see a bump in production playing alongside more talented linemates, and that one of him or Pettersson centers their line. You say he's a 2C, and he could be, but he could also be a top line winger depending on which line you view as being the top line going forward. Personally, I don't think it'll be Miller's as time marches on. We don't have the cap space to pay Lindholm what Calgary offered him, that's really the bottom line here. And he isn't worth more than what Miller is getting anyways. He's gonna be 30 next season and he's on pace for 60ish points. If he wants to test free agency to get his bag, then by all means he can do that. But he won't be signing with the Canucks if he does. This trade was primarily to go for the cup this year. If we can re-sign Lindholm to a reasonable extension then it is a double whammy for us. If he wants his bag and wants to sign for the highest bidder and wants the PLD deal, then as JR said we will have lots of cap space in the summer to make other moves. Is LA a cup contender now with PLD? last I checked he just got his coach fired. So we really don't want to go down that road. We can afford to overpay only two players on the team, Petey and Hughes, who are the superstars. Demko may also fall in that category, but only to a certain extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Miller is stronger physically and scoring far more than Lindholm, but he's better defensively by quite a bit. 8M for Miller was decent before but for consecutive 100-ish point seasons is a steal. I'd say across the league 100 point players probably cost 9-10M. Bit more if they can defend well. Then take Lindholm who has at best scored at an 80 point pace but right now is at around 60. A 60-70p player usually costs 6-7M. Solid defending and Selke consideration adds a mil but that's in his prime. Lindholm has not scored 40G 80P consistently, he did it for just one year. I don't think he deserves anywhere near 8M. If he starts scoring at a 40 goal pace with Petey for the next 50-odd games then pay the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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