(Discussion) Elias Lindholm Extension

[BigTramFan]

Lindholm is a great addition to the roster for this season. He will be 30 in December, so let's just see how well he fits before deciding on an extension...

[Tank]

On 2/1/2024 at 12:14 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Little Johnny turned down 10.5 to go to Columbus for 9.5...

yep, players simply don't like the locker room there. 

Lindy should sign here 6 milx6 years. much better city plus so many swede fellow men.

[Reznor]

On 2/3/2024 at 5:04 PM, Gawdzukes said:

 

What an absolute rubbish group of child bloggers / lame ass reporters

 

LOL!!!!! That's fantastic.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Devil's advocate but wouldn't we rather have Bo Horvat than Lindholm? Younger, scoring more, bigger/stronger...I get that we flipped him and got a good 1st rounder, but Beauvillier was trash who we traded and Raty could be a forever-AHLer at this rate.

 

Now we flip a 1st (admittedly much lower down) + 3rd or 4th + two B/C grade defensive prospects + 39 goal scorer for Lindholm and we may not even be able to extend him anyway.

 

 

[HKSR]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Devil's advocate but wouldn't we rather have Bo Horvat than Lindholm? Younger, scoring more, bigger/stronger...I get that we flipped him and got a good 1st rounder, but Beauvillier was trash who we traded and Raty could be a forever-AHLer at this rate.

 

Now we flip a 1st (admittedly much lower down) + 3rd or 4th + two B/C grade defensive prospects + 39 goal scorer for Lindholm and we may not even be able to extend him anyway.

 

 

Without moving Bo, we wouldn't have Hronek.  Out of the 3, Hronek is the most valuable IMO.

[TopChed]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:53 PM, Coconuts said:

8-8.5Mx8 seems more likely imo. 

I dunno man. 

 

We walked away from Bo who signed for that. Bo's better than Lindholm 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, TopChed said:

I dunno man. 

 

We walked away from Bo who signed for that. Bo's better than Lindholm 

 

Sure, but the cap will go up more than it was going to last offseason, Horvat signed 8.5mx8 on February 5th, 2023. 

 

Lindholm, like Horvat, also has UFA leverage. He'd get 8M or more on the open market. 

 

Horvat's likely the better offensive player, certainly. Lindholm proved in Calgary over most of the past six or so seasons that he can produce as well though, even if his numbers have taken a hit without Gaudreau and Tkachuk. At worst he's a top tier 2C, at best he's probably a 1C for some teams around the league. 

 

He'd easily be the best center available via UFA. He also doesn't owe the Canucks anything, it's not as if he's got roots here. He may take a bit less to stick with a more competitive team but I think anyone expecting a significant discount is probably out to lunch. 

Edited February 13 by Coconuts

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Sure, but the cap will go up more than it was going to last offseason, Horvat signed 8.5mx8 on February 5th, 2023. 

 

Lindholm, like Horvat, also has UFA leverage. He'd get 8M or more on the open market. 

 

Horvat's likely the better offensive player, certainly. Lindholm proved in Calgary over most of the past six or so seasons that he can produce as well though, even if his numbers have taken a hit without Gaudreau and Tkachuk. At worst he's a top tier 2C, at best he's probably a 1C for some teams around the league. 

 

He'd easily be the best center available via UFA. He also doesn't owe the Canucks anything, it's not as if he's got roots here. He may take a bit less to stick with a more competitive team but I think anyone expecting a significant discount is probably out to lunch. 

Depends... given his production through the first 4 games with Vancouver, he's on pace for about 14 to 15 points over the rest of this season.  That puts him at 48 points for the year.  Would some nut job GM come along and hand him $8M+?  Maybe... but it's not as likely if he finishes with less than 50 points this year and only 64 points last year.

I think he's more likely to get a deal between $7M to $8M.  Even that's a gamble because if he really is only a 50 point player now, that would be poor value... and will get even worse as he declines further into his 30s.

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Depends... given his production through the first 4 games with Vancouver, he's on pace for about 14 to 15 points over the rest of this season.  That puts him at 48 points for the year.  Would some nut job GM come along and hand him $8M+?  Maybe... but it's not as likely if he finishes with less than 50 points this year and only 64 points last year.

I think he's more likely to get a deal between $7M to $8M.  Even that's a gamble because if he really is only a 50 point player now, that would be poor value... and will get even worse as he declines further into his 30s.

 

I think 8M could probably get it done. You're not just paying for his production, and I reckon he should rebound as a Canuck, at least a bit. It's still very early on and he's adjusting to new teammates, systems, ect.

 

I do believe he'd get paid via UFA. But yeah, how he plays down the stretch will have an impact. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think 8M could probably get it done. You're not just paying for his production, and I reckon he should rebound as a Canuck, at least a bit. It's still very early on and he's adjusting to new teammates, systems, ect.

 

I do believe he'd get paid via UFA. But yeah, how he plays down the stretch will have an impact. 

Yeah, I think $8M does it too... which is why I hope $7.5M

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, I think $8M does it too... which is why I hope $7.5M

 

7.5M would be good, but I generally lean towards the belief that players will take the money when they can get the money. But I don't see 500k being a make it or break it sort of thing for the Canucks. 

 

Certainly, if you overpay on every contract it'll bite you in the ass, but I also recognize that every deal isn't going to be a bargain. Sometimes you simply have to pay full value, but for some folks full value may as well be an overpayment. I reckon we'll see some full value, if not close to full value, deals going forward as we tackle trying to extend top flight players. 

 

I suppose time will tell. 

Edited February 13 by Coconuts

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

7.5M would be good, but I generally lean towards the belief that players will take the money when they can get the money. But I don't see 500k being a make it or break it sort of thing for the Canucks. 

 

Certainly, if you overpay on every contract it'll bite you in the ass, but I also recognize that every deal isn't going to be a bargain. Sometimes you simply have to pay full value, but for some folks full value may as well be an overpayment. I reckon we'll see some full value, if not close to full value, deals going forward as we tackle trying to extend top flight players. 

 

I suppose time will tell. 

Yeah, I just look at it what happens if all the top flight players take a $500k discount... let's say a core of 5 guys all take $500k less.  That's $2.5M... enough to likely pay for a guy like Joshua.

[Coconuts]

35 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, I just look at it what happens if all the top flight players take a $500k discount... let's say a core of 5 guys all take $500k less.  That's $2.5M... enough to likely pay for a guy like Joshua.

 

It adds up, certainly. But from what I've seen stars don't usually take discounts, at least not sizeable ones. Not just as Canucks, but across the league. Every fanbase wants their top players to do so, doesn't seem like most do. 

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

It adds up, certainly. But from what I've seen stars don't usually take discounts, at least not sizeable ones. Not just as Canucks, but across the league. Every fanbase wants their top players to do so, doesn't seem like most do. 

Agreed, but I think you see it more when a team is a top tier contender.  Players flock to the contenders for a chance at a Cup.

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Agreed, but I think you see it more when a team is a top tier contender.  Players flock to the contenders for a chance at a Cup.

 

Agreed, although I'd argue we still have a lot to prove. 

[R3aL]

On 1/31/2024 at 7:54 PM, flickyoursedin said:

Didn’t Calgary offer him 8.5 by 8 years and he turned it down? Maybe he takes less here because of the chance to win. Lock him in for 7x7!

It wasn't just money there it was being scared to commit the rest of his career to a franchise with players jumping ship, not a big prospect line, Dube on the way out, Huberdeau being a dead anchor he doesn't play well with.

 

I think it was more about fit than money.

 

For us, I want to see a little more and we need to be sure he has a top 6 role. 6.5-7.5 long term would be ideal. His playing style should age well.

 

Just have to be sure hes a chemistry fit with our core players.

[cripplereh]

Hope he is happy and lives in here as that in the iff season could tip the scales in our direction.

[FlippersUp]

I don't get why we want to pay this guy 8m. Feel like there are more cost effective options for next season. 

[IBatch]

On 2/3/2024 at 1:18 PM, Coconuts said:

 

He'll almost certainly be playing top six minutes alongside either Pettersson or Miller, and more than likely he won't just squeak onto our top powerplay, as one of our more talented forwards he'll deserve to be there. 

 

I don't see why he'd be deployed any more defensively than he was in Calgary. He's proven he's capable of producing alongside top talent while being an excellent center, he did it with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, he'll likely get a chance to do just that here. 

 

Miller doesn't magically set a bar that other other players won't blow by because he's putting up points. Miller signed his current deal September 2nd, 2022, when still had a season left on his deal. He was not a pending UFA, Lindholm is. He was also signed under a flat cap, Lindholm won't be, the cap will be going up 4-4.5Mish. A rising cap will affect how contracts rise, top players eat most of cap increases. Player asks are fluid alongside the cap. Lindholm has leverage that Miller never bothered to utilize, Miller took the guaranteed money after what very well could have been a one and done career season, he didn't bet on himself the way Pettersson has, and he gave up money by doing so at the end of the day. 

 

Pettersson will almost certainly cost us more than 11M. 

 

Lindholm will be the best UFA center available, it's not a matter of whether he'd get 8-9M as a UFA, it's a matter of who'd give it to him. And it won't be silly, it'll be market value for a Selke caliber two-way center who'd probably be a top line center on some teams. 

 

Bo was always going to get what he got, he had UFA leverage, Lindholm will likely be similar. Maybe he takes a bit less to play on a more competitive team but he'll likely make closer to 8 than 6, it's not as if he owes the Canucks anything. 

 

Miller was a pending UFA.   Doesn't matter if he hadn't played a game yet his final season, he was pending, a lot of players do this as to keep it out of the news.    Cap is going up 5%.   It should be shared by the players signing.   

 

As for Bo.  It was as Lou said "way too much".   The guy that signed him.    Highly doubt he's going to get offered 9 x 8 from us (what he reportedly turned down in CAL last season).     I don't think he should get more the Kesler did cap percentage wise, it's not like he's actually won a Selke, and Kesler was a finalist for over a half a decade.   Sure someone might be desperate enough to risk an LE albatross on him, sure hope it's not us at those prices.    

 

CAL fans feal like they dodged a bullet with Lindholm not signing.    Klingberg shot him self in the foot, not taking the 50ish on the table in Dallas.    Like that Lindholm it puts some pressure on EP to sign and provides us options,  sure hope it's not us showing that sort of desperation capwise.      

Edited February 17 by IBatch