Agree or Disagree: The current Canucks, with the addition of Rasmus Andersson (or another #2A defenseman), would

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Math is your friend.   127 goals allowed.   We've played 49 games.   We've played 59.79%  ( say 60%) of the season.   127 x 1.40.   We are on pace to allow 178/179 goals.    And with Id agree, a level lower in the goaltending catagory.   A lot of that, has to do with our D-core.    Also, with scoring usually dropping  down the stretch,  won't be shocked to see it get better, or pace it.   AV played a defense first style.   It was a great D-core too.   Just don't think this one, is getting the credit it should.   

 

We've also played without Soucy.   
 

Edit:  The flip side, is we are on pace to score a similar amount of goals.. around 265-266. 

 

 

 

Your math is horrible my friend.. it’s 127 goals in 49 games =2.59 goals/game 

 

127 divided by 49 and then times 82 games = 212 goals per season..

 

The way you did it means they are only giving up 40% of the goals they already given up lol so you think we are giving up just 51 goals in the next 33 games? So 1.54 goals per game when we are giving up over 2.5 atm?

[IBatch]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:27 AM, JamesB said:

The current team is very good but the 2011 team was slightly better (in my opinion).

 

1. The 2011 team had elite goaltending and won the Jennings trophy. Demmer and DeSmith are very good but it would be hard to argue that they are better than Lu and Schneider.

 

2. The 2011 team did not have a Norris level D-man but it had much more depth. Putting the D-men from the two teams on a quality list would run something as follows:

 

Hughes (current)

Erhoff (2011. He had a great year and got a quite a few Norris votes).

Edler (2011. Also had a great year)

Hamhuis (2011. Also had a great year.)

Hronek (current)

Bieksa (2011)

Salo (2011)

Tanev (2011. A rookie but already good defensively)

A bunch of guys.

 

The 2011 team had 3 guys who were high end "top pairing" D-men and two more who were very good "top 4" D-men and a young Chris Tanev who was already good defensively. The current team has an excellent top pairing and but a big drop-off to a marginal second pairing and a third pairing that is only "pretty good" at best.  

 

3. The current team has better forwards.

 

Overall, I think the 2011 team was better, but the current team has a shot to win the Cup.

 

 

 

 

Hronek has already surpassed Edler for second on D points in 49 games,  likely will surpass Erhoff, and that's without any real quality power play time.     Playing on a below average team in Detroit, he was pretty decent too.   And was the man, not Seider.    For sure part of that is the QHs effect,  similar age.     Also Hamhuis Bieksa was the top pairing 5 x 5 in 2011, not Erhoff Edler, they played the second pairing.   

 

As of right now he's tracking to be on par with any of those guys really.    I'd invert Edler and Hamhuis but that's just splitting hairs, plus Bieksa was a Conn Smythe favourite on our team, with Luongo and Kesler going into Game 3 and the Boston series (Babych and the panel debated this on TV....he went with Bieksa, who had a heck of a series against SJ, who just kept getting better and better as the series went on..Luongo and Bieksa were the difference makers).  

 

Don't feel your wrong either.   Just that Hronek's work this year for sure has helped QHs game, and that given that he's out top PKer with Cole ... that means something too.   As does plus 8, 38 points in 60 games playing top pair in Detroit, a non-playoff team.   That would match up well with Hamhuis, Bieksa, Salo and Edler's best seasons.  

 

Edit:  Any way you slice it, the 2011 team was the best in the league.   That's something this team is going to have an awfully tough time doing.     Curiously, this team is tracking for fewer GA then 2011, around 179...versus 185.    And pacing the GF.    

 

Agree we had two top five goalies.  Schnieder played admirably in NJ on some bland teams until he burnt out.   De-Smith isn't as good, although he's still good.  Demko and Luongo is a wash.   Edge maybe Demko .. as he's in a dog fight with Hellebuyck, then a group of goalies a tier down.  

 

Usually teams start tightening up after the all-star break.    Could be that 2023-2024, considering scoring itself is back to pre dead puck era, or Jagr, Oats, Hull, Lafontaine levels 1992- 1996 minus Mario ... Back then if a team allowed fewer then 280, they usually were doing pretty good.   The only club record the 2023-2024 is tracking to set, is overall points.   Within a couple so it's very close.   119ish.    So is the ROW (50) set by the 2011 team.   Pacing it so far, think around 48. 

 

 

1993 records are safe.   Doubted  we'd ever see any team score like that again,  maybe the Oilers can do it...330 last year so close .. 300 goals for has been tough for any team to score since the late 90's.   Nice to see a few doing that again.   This team we are leading the pack in that regard, but we'd need a big boost to score 115 or so goals with 33 games left .. Lindholm should help in both regards, and the team would have to stay relatively healthy to achieve this.    Pretty sure the 2011 records are safe but it's great to see a team challenge them.  

Edited February 6 by IBatch

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Your math is horrible my friend.. it’s 127 goals in 49 games =2.59 goals/game 

 

127 divided by 49 and then times 82 games = 212 goals per season..

 

The way you did it means they are only giving up 40% of the goals they already given up lol so you think we are giving up just 51 goals in the next 33 games? So 1.54 goals per game when we are giving up over 2.5 atm?

That does make sense.    But I like my math better.    127 goals in 59.79% of the season x Lindholm effect, divided by hope comes to 179.   
 

 

127 x 1.4121  seemed, or the same plus the games left...missing something isn't it?  Your way is better, and simpler too.   Sincere apologies!  My bad thanks for letting me know ... now have to go back and edit.  Face palm. 

[wai_lai416]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

That does make sense.    But I like my math better.    127 goals in 59.79% of the season x Lindholm effect, divided by hope comes to 179.   
 

 

127 x 1.4121  seemed, or the same plus the games left...missing something isn't it?  Your way is better, and simpler too.   Sincere apologies!  My bad thanks for letting me know ... now have to go back and edit.  Face palm. 

Haha season still have a ways to go maybe like u said lindholm effect we will hit that number haha. 

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

I dunno where u get ur 178 goals from we are on pace for 212.

im not sure why you are talking about how many goals the defenceman score etc or how healthy or injury prone they are. Fact is the top 4 from that era is superior defensively to our current top 4. Offensively sure it’s not close. The only downside to that team was they live and die on the special team. But they can roll any line any defence pairing out there and not worried too much about getting burned line matching

Was it 45 goals we got from the D in 2011?   We haven't seen that in a long time.    Even if QHs challenges Aucion, we likely won't get that from our D-core.       What we have is QHs and Hronek, and a lot of 4-5's after that.    Suitable 4's or very good 5's.     This D-core is large as well.    2011 was loaded with 2-3's, it did make for difficult match ups for sure.    Of that team, Hamhuis was the best defensive player.   Edler had his gaffes but he was next up.   So did Bieksa, who was next up.    Salo probably next up in his prime, but he wasn't in his prime anymore and 3rd pairing with Ballard,  who for whatever reason,  was a bad fit and often in the press box over guys like Alberts and Rome.   Erhoff was a PP specialist not exactly a rock solid two way player.      
 

Soucy Cole verus either Hamhuis/Bieksa or Erhoff Edler, not even close is fair.    It's also fair to say QHs/Hronek verus either of those pairings, is not even close.    I've been following Soucy since the bubble,  he's a key ingredient our D-core lacked.   Also the UFA that was hoping we'd acquire,  playing with a deep MIN blueline, this kid was making it awfully hard on our forwards, and basically having his way with them.   Also good in Seattle.   You're going to love this guy.   Hasn't had a chance to settle in.   Suspect like it used to be with Salo, when he plays, our winning percentage goes up.    He's a guy, that has untapped offense,  despite being a defensive defenseman. 

 

Our 2011 D-core missed considerable time.  Erhoff was the only guy that didn't really.   Imagine if they were more durable that year, that they'd have over 120'points for sure.    

The 1994 D-core was very balanced and with Hedican and Brown (Hedican became an all-star shortly after ... did a 13.5 lap too).   Lumme Murzyn.   Diduck Babych and Hedican Brown.   We added a pairing, that bumped Lumme's line.   That was similar to the 2011 team.     Hughes is the man that makes this D-core special for sure. 

 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Haha season still have a ways to go maybe like u said lindholm effect we will hit that number haha. 

And hope!   Looking forward to seeing what Soucy, Z, Myers and Cole will do in the post season, to make it awfully hard on opposing players.   Hammers and Ballard's hip checks were things of beauty,  Edler also had some heavy stand up hits at the blue line (until he got injured, was like Ohlund-lite in this regard).  This is the first time since back then (and when Salo and Erhoff left), we've had six legit NHL D's like this.    Bieksa was probably my favourite player on the Sedin teams.    What a beauty. 

 

   Soucy and Z can crush guys, Myers aggression was a big part of the bubble, one of a few players that didn't go into hiding against Vegas (and injured his shoulder so wasn't 100%), and he's has a history of stepping up in WNP too (Big Buff injured).    He won't have to be the only guy doing that this time around.    Zadarov and Myers will be a lot of fun to watch.   Soucy Cole is just a safe pairing that also will make it hard on opponents.    QHs and Hronek, they are a treat to watch every game.     

[Kevin Biestra]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

The 1994 D-core was very balanced and with Hedican and Brown (Hedican became an all-star shortly after ... did a 13.5 lap too).   Lumme Murzyn.   Diduck Babych and Hedican Brown.   We added a pairing, that bumped Lumme's line.   That was similar to the 2011 team.     Hughes is the man that makes this D-core special for sure.

 

I think Hedican might have been from the period where guys went to the final leaguewide skills competition even if they didn't make the cut for the All Star Game itself.  Shows how much more legitimacy the whole thing had back then.  Guys were willing and happy to fly out there to compete in only the skills competition.  Now nobody even wants to play in the actual game.

[DownUndaCanuck]

We do need a short-term solution with Cole and Myers likely coming off the books next off-season, but Willander and D.Petey in the wings. Andersson is a bit too young to be honest. Tanev at 33-34 years old could make sense, he could play with us this year or sign in the off-season and play next year at 2RD and maybe the year after that slowly reducing his minutes and dropping to the bottom pairing. Durability is the big issue though, you just know he'd come back to Vancouver and end up injured for half the season. We could rely on Zadorov to play the right and someone else on the left (Soucy?) but that's a fairly weak 2nd pairing compared to what it is right now. 

We could target a shutdown LD and play Zadorov on the right, but that guy would have to be very solid. There are a few guys in free agency we could target with 9M of Cole and Myers money. Of course the other option is to bring back Cole cheaply but he'll be a lot older and slower next year.