To what extent is Jim Benning responsible for the Canucks’ current success?

[sheffy]

He is responsible for nothing. He had the same pieces you bolded and failed again and again. LOL.

[Miss Korea]

16 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Drance said something hilarious though. If the Canucks missed the playoffs (or lost the play in tournament againts The Wild) in the 2019-2020 season. They wouldn't have had the first to deal for OEL. So you could say getting to the 2nd round of the playoffs is what lead to the OEL mess the team has now 

 

Our 2019-20 season was definitely trending the wrong way - I still haven't forgotten that.  Had they failed to qualify under normal circumstances, someone would've got fired.  Maybe Green, maybe both.

[iinatcc]

18 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Oho, don't get me started on analytics.  Holy Jesus.  

 

   

 

Jet Black Jim: "Man these guys look amazing - we should definitely pick them up!"

 

Never did i Imagined Gudbransson would have better stats than OEL 

 

[iinatcc]

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Our 2019-20 season was definitely trending the wrong way - I still haven't forgotten that.  Had they failed to qualify under normal circumstances, someone would've got fired.  Maybe Green, maybe both.

 

If Benning didn't get canned I wouldn't be surprised if he did a panic move greater than the Magnitude of the OEL deal. I shudder to think what that would have been.

 

 

[Miss Korea]

@Jeremy Hronek It’s probably best if I refer you a post I made the other day - video evidence of why Rick Tocchet (plus Gonchar/Foote) deserves tons of credit for turning this team around.  It has nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with Jim Benning.

 

 

[iinatcc]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Demko, Pettersson, and Hughes are on sweetheart contracts (although Pettersson’s will obviously change next season), while JT Miller was brought in a few years back despite many local hockey pundits being against the idea.

 

I guess this all depends on the outcome this season.

 

if Canucks win the cup in the next 2 season it will be all worth it. But the way the contracts are structured (plus the OEL buyout) means this phase of the any competitive window is relatively short. Of course this could change if the Podkolzon, Willander, Lekkerimaki develop to quality NHL players in the next few years. So it extends a bit.

 

But, as it stands, Canucks have only like a 2 year competitive window until extensions and buyout penalties hinders the team again

 

 

[Miss Korea]

7 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Never did i Imagined Gudbransson would have better stats than OEL 

 

 

Well, definitely not anymore.  But in any case, both of them have turned things around and are doing well for their respective teams.  All relative, of course - OEL did a fantastic job subbing in for Ekblad/Montour, while Guddy... ah, Guddy pummeled that rat-faced weasel Nick Cousins!  That guy is starting to overtake Marchand/Wilson as having the most punchable face in the league (as voted by the players themselves).

[iinatcc]

One point though Rick Dhaliwal mentioned recently how the Sedin's involvment with the AHL and NHL roster was an important factor in the team's success both in the NHL and AHl.

If true does Benning deserve credit for hiring the Sedins in front office roles? 

 

[Miss Korea]

4 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

One point though Rick Dhaliwal mentioned recently how the Sedin's involvment with the AHL and NHL roster was an important factor in the team's success both in the NHL and AHl.

If true does Benning deserve credit for hiring the Sedins in front office roles? 

 

Benning would definitely deserve some credit for keeping the Sedins in Vancouver and not trading them.  I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have Canadian citizenship already.

 

On the flip side, that also means Benning get credit for listening to the twins in... Approving the Tortorella hire.  Pushing for Loui Erikson.  And of course... pushing for Oliver Ekman-Larsson.  ive never been happier to see the twins work strictly in coaching.  

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Babych said:

This team is doing well IN SPITE of the incompetent bumblings of (that fucking idiot) Benning.

This ^^^^^

[spook007]

In the end Benning went up to the podium and called out the names of the players drafted. He had the final say.

And the JT trade was unreal... slaughtered at the time of the trade. I wonder how many would still be unhappy about the trade today, BUT......

 

The whole organisation under his stewardship was a mess... 

The President was nothing more than a poster boy, and his plans were over ruled by FA and Benning.

The proof is in the pudding, with how the whole organisation has been turned around, since JR took over.

 

Bennings signings in general were overpaid and under performing... There didn't seem to be much plan in pairings, who could play with whom, and at times he looked out of his depth.

 

However fact is also, Aquilini didn't want a total tear down to get better picks, so it became a mushy middle below average garbage show, that was good for nothing.

Team was supposed to win, so they never really got into the bottom 3 picks except for once, when the lottery screwed them.

Gillis said a tear down was needed and got canned for it, so Benning was likely no more than a puppet.

 

Long story short, Benning made the picks (doesn't matter. who told who what) and he made the trade for JT.... these things can't be debated, so his picks are the definitely part of the success... However, for team building, both on and off the ice, its all down to JR/PA.

 

 

 

 

[spook007]

54 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

I guess this all depends on the outcome this season.

 

if Canucks win the cup in the next 2 season it will be all worth it. But the way the contracts are structured (plus the OEL buyout) means this phase of the any competitive window is relatively short. Of course this could change if the Podkolzon, Willander, Lekkerimaki develop to quality NHL players in the next few years. So it extends a bit.

 

But, as it stands, Canucks have only like a 2 year competitive window until extensions and buyout penalties hinders the team again

 

 

Yep 2 years now, and hopefully another window once the 2 tough years of penalties are done with...

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Benning got the players but, as some folks in Sportsnet said (likey Drance), how much credit can you give Benning for managing a team so bad it picked from the Top 10 draft in consecutive years? 

 

I do give Benning for drafting Pettersson though so that's something considering he went off the BPA board.

 

Miller trade was a good one but it was big swing trade. And while Miller trade did work out, his other big trades were a Swing and a Miss. OEL, Gudbransson, Sutter etc. So it balances out over his course of his tenure that his "Miller level/impact" trades have been mostly awful.

 

I say Benning is 5% responsible. I guess it would have been closer to 15% but Benning was also responsible for creating a rotting culture within the organization that required Allvin/Rutherford 2 years to fix. 

 

Drance must be an idiot if he expected the Canucks wouldn't have to go through this.    Every team aside from SJ (and now them too), has gone through this since the cap.    Idiotic comments really.    Funny thing,  how  lot of hockey people,  actually felt Benning needed to let the team bottom out even further, instead of adding Jt Miller and Myers.    Wonder what Drance had to say about that. 

[spook007]

I sometimes wonder, how we would have faired now, had we had JR come in say 5-6 years ago instead.

If they sorted the team out then, there would be no Quinn Hughes drafted, as the team likely wouldn't be as bad as it is now?

 

So in some weird way, it could probably be to our benefit, that Benning was kept on as long as he was?

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep 2 years now, and hopefully another window once the 2 tough years of penalties are done with...

Spook, truly think QHs current contract, and Demko's,  that is our window.   After that we will either need to replace them, or work around possibly 25+ million for the pair.     OEL's cap hit going up a couple million means  should work-out if Willander and one other ELC comes in (Lekkermaki or Linus Karlsson?)... Think our window is four years wide.    That said maybe with Allvin running things, he can make things work out like it has for Boston, how it did for SJ (20 years they were good) or TB.    For that to happen we'd need our guys to buy in like Miller did.   Everyone take a little less.  

 

Edit: OELs cap will sting.    But can work around it.    Have this year.    Mikheyev will need to be replaced with a league min or close to that.   Podz?  Maybe Bains ( AHL MVP, 5 points).    

Edited February 8 by IBatch

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I sometimes wonder, how we would have faired now, had we had JR come in say 5-6 years ago instead.

If they sorted the team out then, there would be no Quinn Hughes drafted, as the team likely wouldn't be as bad as it is now?

 

So in some weird way, it could probably be to our benefit, that Benning was kept on as long as he was?

We arrive at the present, as a result of the past for sure.    It was probably two years late in coming.   The Bubble experience, for sure added a lifeline.    In the end, we arrive at this.   Allvin and JR have pivoted as well, pretty sure based on their own comments (especially JR, he can get into a sharing mood behind the mike), they've acknowledged that they could see what JB was envisioning, and that they've advanced their own timeline.    Can see that with Zadarov and Lindholm trades this season.  

 

What a pleasant surprise to say the least.   If they can lock these guys into relatively fair to team friendly deals, it's possible that we have a window with these guys, all the way to 34-36.  Like Boston had with Bergeron,  PIT with Crosby.  

[Jeremy Hronek]

5 hours ago, Ribs said:

He managed to suck so bad that we got a few high picks.

True but keep in mind that neither Demko nor Hoglander were first rounders.  Boeser was also picked at the #23 spot.

[Jeremy Hronek]

27 minutes ago, IBatch said:

We arrive at the present, as a result of the past for sure.    It was probably two years late in coming.   The Bubble experience, for sure added a lifeline.    In the end, we arrive at this.   Allvin and JR have pivoted as well, pretty sure based on their own comments (especially JR, he can get into a sharing mood behind the mike), they've acknowledged that they could see what JB was envisioning, and that they've advanced their own timeline.    Can see that with Zadarov and Lindholm trades this season.  

 

What a pleasant surprise to say the least.   If they can lock these guys into relatively fair to team friendly deals, it's possible that we have a window with these guys, all the way to 34-36.  Like Boston had with Bergeron,  PIT with Crosby.  

I always drew a parallel between our 2020 bubble season and 2007 season, in that, we both had flukey 2nd round appearances with our core players, followed by a more natural emergence.

 

In theory, 

-2008 should have been our 2021

-2009 should have been our 2022

-2010 should have been our 2023

-2011 should have been our 2024 (but with a Lady boy Thai massage happy ending ;-))

 

While our 2008/2021 lived up to its billing in terms of the expected setback year, I think we got a bit unlucky in both 2009/2022 and 2010/2023.  Especially in that 2022 season, Petey was in the worst slump of his career while Boeser was going through his personal stuff.  We also had some key injuries to the back end in Poolman and Hamonic.  Sutter also had HIV (Covid19). In other words, that 2022 season probably should have gone a lot better than it did.  Ditto for 2010/2023.

 

Thankfully, the Canucks appear to have skipped a few steps and are back on course for their version of their peak.

Edited February 8 by Jeremy Hronek

[IBatch]

28 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

I always drew a parallel between our 2020 bubble season and 2007 season, in that, we both had flukey 2nd round appearances with our core players, followed by a more natural emergence.

 

In theory, 

-2008 should have been our 2021

-2009 should have been our 2022

-2010 should have been our 2023

-2011 should have been our 2024 (but with a Lady boy Thai massage happy ending ;-))

 

While our 2008/2021 lived up to its billing in terms of the expected setback year, I think we got a bit unlucky in both 2009/2022 and 2010/2023.  Especially in that 2022 season, Petey was in the worst slump of his career while Boeser was going through his personal stuff.  We also had some key injuries to the back end in Poolman and Hamonic.  Sutter also had HIV (Covid19). In other words, that 2022 season probably should have gone a lot better than it did.  Ditto for 2010/2023.

 

Thankfully, the Canucks appear to have skipped a few steps and are back on course for their version of their peak.

For me this club is more like the early 90's teams.   EP just turned 25.   QHs was a rookie in the bubble.   The Sedin teams..well we are the same age now, as they were in 2007.    This is our 92/93 season, plus some.   We were 3rd in offense, 5th in defense that year.     Adding Lindholm, is like adding Nedved.    The only difference is, we have a QHs instead of a Bure.    We are heading into the post season, as a contender.    That's something we could only say a couple times.   WCE era and Sedin era, and 94/95. 

 

Edit:  The bubble was a once in a lifetime gig.    17 playoff games are in the record books (they counted the play-ins, and rightly so given how they reffed them).   That's hard to compare to anything.   You're not wrong either.    This team is carving its own path.    Maybe it's also like, the WCE era after Keenan blew it up and Naslund came out and became a super-star ?   Not really.     The thing you've got to like, is QHs is only 24.   So like when Linden or Bure was 24, so much reason for optimism. 

Edited February 8 by IBatch

[Jeremy Hronek]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

For me this club is more like the early 90's teams.   EP just turned 25.   QHs was a rookie in the bubble.   The Sedin teams..well we are the same age now, as they were in 2007.    This is our 92/93 season, plus some.   We were 3rd in offense, 5th in defense that year.     Adding Lindholm, is like adding Nedved.    The only difference is, we have a QHs instead of a Bure.    We are heading into the post season, as a contender.    That's something we could only say a couple times.   WCE era and Sedin era, and 94/95. 

Weren’t we only .500 in 94/95?  (I can’t be arsed to look up our record from that time)

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

In the end Benning went up to the podium and called out the names of the players drafted. He had the final say.

And the JT trade was unreal... slaughtered at the time of the trade. I wonder how many would still be unhappy about the trade today, BUT......

 

The whole organisation under his stewardship was a mess... 

The President was nothing more than a poster boy, and his plans were over ruled by FA and Benning.

The proof is in the pudding, with how the whole organisation has been turned around, since JR took over.

 

Bennings signings in general were overpaid and under performing... There didn't seem to be much plan in pairings, who could play with whom, and at times he looked out of his depth.

 

However fact is also, Aquilini didn't want a total tear down to get better picks, so it became a mushy middle below average garbage show, that was good for nothing.

Team was supposed to win, so they never really got into the bottom 3 picks except for once, when the lottery screwed them.

Gillis said a tear down was needed and got canned for it, so Benning was likely no more than a puppet.

 

Long story short, Benning made the picks (doesn't matter. who told who what) and he made the trade for JT.... these things can't be debated, so his picks are the definitely part of the success... However, for team building, both on and off the ice, its all down to JR/PA.

 

 

 

 

It's ok to give JB the credit for being the GM who had to deal with the stuff he had to.   And that his gaffes led to QHs.    If he didn't draft QHs we'd still be stuck in the mud.   JV and OJ, those gaffes led to where we are today to.   Allvin has added two guys who could become core (and hope they do), in Hronek and Lindholm.    Demko, QHs, EP, Miller and Masterson worthy comeback by Brock, are from JB era.   Hronek (Hamhuis) and Lindholm (Horvat replacement), both comfortably fit into a core of 7 players.     For sure am stoked JB isn't running things anymore.   God only knows what sort of choas he'd have done.   OEL, Schmidt ... not trading guys when he should.  

[nzan]

Almost everyone on this board would have made the Hughes pick - it was a no-brainer

 

I don't believe even one would have made the Pettersson pick - and any discussion around the fact that Benning didn't want the pick proves he was doing what he should, which is listening to his scouts despite his own beliefs.

 

And Miller was a great move.

 

Both Garland and Myers represent his bumbling - I currently love both those guys, but the deals/moves made to acquire them aren't good.

 

And in the end, the most glaring thing to me is he started his tenure by trying to fix our Defense, and seven years later it was was significantly worse than when he started.

 

So - he was bad, but he also deserves a lot of credit for the good he did do.

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Weren’t we only .500 in 94/95?  (I can’t be arsed to look up our record from that time)

Lockout year, screwed with us, but after 94, we weren't considered a team to take lightly.   We beat St. Louis (a contender) in the first round, just like we beat 2 contenders in 94. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lockout year, screwed with us, but after 94, we weren't considered a team to take lightly.   We beat St. Louis (a contender) in the first round, just like we beat 2 contenders in 94. 

I always wondered what would have been in 95/96 had Bure been healthy?  I remember just how good Mogilny was that season for us (107 points that season during the peak clutch and grab era).  Letting Ronning walk in that off season just may have been the kiss of death for that core. 
 

Pat Quinn attempting phone sex with Wayne Gretzky at midnight was an absolute no-no.

[Alflives]

We went from the GM who led our club during its most successful era to Benning. Guaranteed Benning, due to incompetence, will never get another GM nhl job.