Jeremy Hronek Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, Alflives said: We went from the GM who led our club during its most successful era to Benning. Guaranteed Benning, due to incompetence, will never get another GM nhl job. In fairness to Benning, Gillis left almost nothing in the pipeline when JB took over in the Summer of 2014 (although this isn’t Gillis’ fault entirely. Gillis went to ownership in both the summer of 2012 and 2013 asking permission from ownership to rebuild and was basically told to fuck off both times). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: In fairness to Benning, Gillis left almost nothing in the pipeline when JB took over in the Summer of 2014 (although this isn’t Gillis’ fault entirely. Gillis went to ownership in both the summer of 2012 and 2013 asking permission from ownership to rebuild and was basically told to fuck off both times). Yup. Then Gillis did his interview with Scotty on the radio and said stuff thst broke the old boys’ club rules so he will never get another job. Even though, based on performance, he should 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV. Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 He gets credit for the barest of minimums. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, Miss Korea said: On the flip side, that also means Benning get credit for listening to the twins in... Approving the Tortorella hire. Tortorella was a Gillis-era hire. As for whether it was a Gillis hire or a Franquilini hire is the real question, since both seem to disavow any responsibility in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 we prolly contended for a cup by now if he didn't bust on virtanen mccann (not a bust but traded for a terrible player in gudbranson and then double down by signing him to a mid term contract) juolevi and basically all the later picks outside of demko and hoglander.. and badly fumbled with the cap so we have nothing to sign EP long term and now facing a EP massive payday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IBatch Posted February 8 Popular Post Share Posted February 8 19 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: I always wondered what would have been in 95/96 had Bure been healthy? I remember just how good Mogilny was that season for us (107 points that season during the peak clutch and grab era). Letting Ronning walk in that off season just may have been the kiss of death for that core. Pat Quinn attempting phone sex with Wayne Gretzky at midnight was an absolute no-no. Twice i've felt we were going to win a cup after a trade. First time was Mogilny. Over the moon. The Bure Federov Mogilny line was legendary like the KLM line. Best Russia had to offer. Bure and Mogilny! No team could offer that in the league, both guys one player line's stick them with whomever. Second one was Luongo, and that one it truly felt like in the future we were going to win. Luongo was a regular highlight reel for years by then, playing on some pretty bad Florida teams. As for Gretzky. Wasn't Quin that mucked that up. Gretzky described it from his point of view in his book. A done deal. So unprofessional, Orca entertainment, what a joke. Seattle. That's where they wanted the Canucks. Maybe we dodged a bullet on that one, otherwise we'd be all supporting that version of the Canucks instead. Gretzky had a massive offer from SJ, and it would have been easy for him to manage his LA life there. But wanted to play for the Canucks. They'd just lost to COL, in the first round (cup champs) without a second line center. And they took them to task. Gretzky wanted to play with Bure, Mogilny, Linden, Gelinas, McLean and old dogs like Babych. Felt they were a young core that could win it all. For younger fans, who didn't experience that era, you can understand why Orca entertainment and their ownership, was so wrong for the city. Thankfully Quin stopped the team from moving to Seattle. Imagine this team getting to game 7 this year and losing by a goal. Then in two years, adding one of the best wingers in the game, who was in his early prime. Then getting a chance to add Crosby when he was 35. Then the entire thing imploding. Free the Skate. Is a sentiment, that won't go away anytime soon. For a variety of reasons. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, IBatch said: Spook, truly think QHs current contract, and Demko's, that is our window. After that we will either need to replace them, or work around possibly 25+ million for the pair. OEL's cap hit going up a couple million means should work-out if Willander and one other ELC comes in (Lekkermaki or Linus Karlsson?)... Think our window is four years wide. That said maybe with Allvin running things, he can make things work out like it has for Boston, how it did for SJ (20 years they were good) or TB. For that to happen we'd need our guys to buy in like Miller did. Everyone take a little less. Edit: OELs cap will sting. But can work around it. Have this year. Mikheyev will need to be replaced with a league min or close to that. Podz? Maybe Bains ( AHL MVP, 5 points). You may be right amigo... I think, the two years at max cap hit, is when lekkerimaki and Willander will become accustomed to playing in the NHL and once the cap situation gets better, they'll be able to contribute meaningfully... a lot of things needs to go right of course, and a lot of wheeling and dealing to be done before hand, but I have such a good feeling about this team... Best part is atm we discussing minor trades to make us even stronger/tougher... I did not see this coming so quick, when Allvin became GM... But is was clear, when they bought out OEL, they saw the potential of a quick turn around for this team.... otherwise it would have made no sense to extend the pain.... so here we are. All hail the JR/PA partnership... what a turn around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: we prolly contended for a cup by now if he didn't bust on virtanen mccann (not a bust but traded for a terrible player in gudbranson and then double down by signing him to a mid term contract) juolevi and basically all the later picks outside of demko and hoglander.. and badly fumbled with the cap so we have nothing to sign EP long term and now facing a EP massive payday That's not how the part works though. If he didn't bust on JV and OJ, no EP, no QHs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, IBatch said: We arrive at the present, as a result of the past for sure. It was probably two years late in coming. The Bubble experience, for sure added a lifeline. In the end, we arrive at this. Allvin and JR have pivoted as well, pretty sure based on their own comments (especially JR, he can get into a sharing mood behind the mike), they've acknowledged that they could see what JB was envisioning, and that they've advanced their own timeline. Can see that with Zadarov and Lindholm trades this season. What a pleasant surprise to say the least. If they can lock these guys into relatively fair to team friendly deals, it's possible that we have a window with these guys, all the way to 34-36. Like Boston had with Bergeron, PIT with Crosby. You had me at 34.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, spook007 said: You may be right amigo... I think, the two years at max cap hit, is when lekkerimaki and Willander will become accustomed to playing in the NHL and once the cap situation gets better, they'll be able to contribute meaningfully... a lot of things needs to go right of course, and a lot of wheeling and dealing to be done before hand, but I have such a good feeling about this team... Best part is atm we discussing minor trades to make us even stronger/tougher... I did not see this coming so quick, when Allvin became GM... But is was clear, when they bought out OEL, they saw the potential of a quick turn around for this team.... otherwise it would have made no sense to extend the pain.... so here we are. All hail the JR/PA partnership... what a turn around. They cooked up the elephant, and ate one leg with the Horvat trade. Ever since a frantic feast! Could be we are making soup out of it right now, and that's finished this post season. If not then soup only for a few years. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, IBatch said: Drance must be an idiot if he expected the Canucks wouldn't have to go through this. Every team aside from SJ (and now them too), has gone through this since the cap. Idiotic comments really. Funny thing, how lot of hockey people, actually felt Benning needed to let the team bottom out even further, instead of adding Jt Miller and Myers. Wonder what Drance had to say about that. While that is true another component on his point (as well as Dodd) is that his in ability to build around that team. He can draft at a high pick and do well (most GM's do) but it's not being able to add the finishing touches that doomed Benning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 12 minutes ago, IBatch said: That's not how the part works though. If he didn't bust on JV and OJ, no EP, no QHs. Actually if Linden doesn’t force Benning to listen to the scouts there’s no Petey. The core piece Benning should be credited with drafting is Hughes. Canucks used to have a video of that draft and after Detroit passed over Hughes Wisebrod leaned over to Benning and squealed, “you got your guy”. With emphasis on the “your”. Benning refused to listen to his scouts with the club’s highest picks. He picked “his guy”. Edited February 8 by Alflives 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, IBatch said: They cooked up the elephant, and ate one leg with the Horvat trade. Ever since a frantic feast! Could be we are making soup out of it right now, and that's finished this post season. If not then soup only for a few years. To turn it around, they need to hit on just about everything they tried... And they seem to have accomplished that... Horvat into Hronek and Zedorov. Bottom 6 players on a string for next to no money... Our D core tough as nails, and now adding another top class C for the run in.... The way they ruthlessly makes trades, if they don't see the fit, is something we haven't seen here in a long time... Great time to be a Canucks fan... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, IBatch said: That's not how the part works though. If he didn't bust on JV and OJ, no EP, no QHs. the only player that would have made a difference right away if he picked properly was Matthew Tkachuk... he maybe gets us 2-3 more wins.. we'll prolly still be close enough to have a shot at EP.. QH was a pure fluke with Detroit and montreal going off the board 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Actually if Linden doesn’t force Benning to listen to the scouts there’s no Petey. The core piece Benning should be credited with drafting is Hughes. Canucks used to have a video of that draft and after Detroit passed over Hughes Wisebrod leaned over to Benning and squealed, “you got your guy”. With emphasis on the “you”. Benning refused to listen to his scouts with the club’s highest picks. He picked “his guy”. In the end the GM makes the picks... He takes the accolades or gets the stick, which ever way the pick turns out. If the GM makes rubbish picks, history doesn't speak about who his scouts were, or what info he got. It's his name that is associated with the pick. Good or Bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: the only player that would have made a difference right away if he picked properly was Matthew Tkachuk... he maybe gets us 2-3 more wins.. we'll prolly still be close enough to have a shot at EP.. QH was a pure fluke with Detroit and montreal going off the board Again that is irrelevant... Benning could have done the same... As for Tkachuks impact, we will never know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, spook007 said: In the end the GM makes the picks... He takes the accolades or gets the stick, which ever way the pick turns out. If the GM makes rubbish picks, history doesn't speak about who his scouts were, or what info he got. It's his name that is associated with the pick. Good or Bad. An arrogant GM believes a week of watching a player makes his opinion more valuable than years of scouts’ tracking the player. Benning was arrogant and picked who he wanted with our top picks, regardless of what the scouts said. It got to the point where the scouts (IMHAO) said little. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just now, Alflives said: An arrogant GM believes a week of watching a player makes his opinion more valuable than years of scouts’ tracking the player. Benning was arrogant and picked who he wanted with our top picks, regardless of what the scouts said. It got to the point where the scouts (IMHAO) said little. Don't disagree one little bit.... Benning saw hi,,self as the smartest man in the building, when it came to making the picks... hence even more the reason to say the picks were his regardless of what he was told or not told. Not saying its right or wrong, but in the end, he made the picks and despite screwing up on a few of them, he also made some good ones... lucky or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said: With respect to Benning bros, this thread isn't about that. Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko (non-high pick) currently have some of the best value cap hits in the league. Garland and Miller have been significant impact players for us, while Hoglander has also taken a bit of a leap. Pettersson, Demko, Miller, Boeser, and Hughes were all brought in under Benning's watch. Are you arguing that Benning was good at cap management? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, Crabcakes said: Are you arguing that Benning was good at cap management? That’s not what I said man. All I said was that Demko, Pettersson, and Hughes, at current, have among the best cap hits in the league…..all of these contracts of which were signed by Benning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 39 minutes ago, spook007 said: Again that is irrelevant... Benning could have done the same... As for Tkachuks impact, we will never know... it's like you guys are defending his QH pick as a stroke of genius.. when really it was just pure luck.. if detroit took hughes we would have been looking at another bust with zadina.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) I think you can make a fair argument for none. There's no chance Jim could have made the moves JR and PA made to make this group successful to this degree. We'd be Columbus right now under Benning even with all of his picks still here. Just because you have a Ferrari it doesn't mean you know how to drive it. Edited February 8 by Bob Long 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Actually if Linden doesn’t force Benning to listen to the scouts there’s no Petey. The core piece Benning should be credited with drafting is Hughes. Canucks used to have a video of that draft and after Detroit passed over Hughes Wisebrod leaned over to Benning and squealed, “you got your guy”. With emphasis on the “you”. Benning refused to listen to his scouts with the club’s highest picks. He picked “his guy”. JB listened, and it wasn't Linden, it was his coaching staff. Can't take that away from him, sure maybe he wanted someone else, but he went with Delorme's insistence. Luck played into it as well. Gradin in Sweden. Without a call, none of that likely happened. Of the top ten, only NYR had a modest interest in taking EP. This is one thing, you we shouldn't be taking away from JB. It's kind of silly to be taking way QHs too. Can't have it both ways (criticizing his whiffs with JV and OJ, and on the other hand denigrating EP and QHs or invalidating it). Edited February 8 by IBatch 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 31 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: it's like you guys are defending his QH pick as a stroke of genius.. when really it was just pure luck.. if detroit took hughes we would have been looking at another bust with zadina.. To be fair, QHs went around where he was supposed too. Before the draft it was Boqvist or QHs and Dobson or Bouchard. There was no clear winner! And Svecknikov versus Zadina, the same way it was Puljajarvi versus Laine. Dahlin "the Next Lidstrom" was the clear number one pick. Brady T, was all over the map too. "That's a small body gentleman" ... if QHs was in a re-draft, where do you think he'd go? Nobody picked him. And there was no clear consensus number "7" either. If JB took Bouchard, i bet Burkie would have praised it. EDM didn't even have his name ready. Wasn't supposed to drop that far. This "dropping on his lap" dialogue is fair but also weak if you followed that draft. Not everyone was happy about it. Edited February 8 by IBatch 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 24 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I think you can make a fair argument for none. There's no chance Jim could have made the moves JR and PA made to make this group successful to this degree. We'd be Columbus right now under Benning even with all of his picks still here. Just because you have a Ferrari it doesn't mean you know how to drive it. Yep. And even if he bought the thing, you needed a closer. JB wasn't that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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