[PGT] Canucks at Capitals - 02/11/24

[HorvatToBaertschi]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

When Cherry was coaching the Bruins, he was asked who his toughest player was. He immediately replied, “Jean Ratelle”. Ratelle was a skilled centre who held onto pucks to make plays, and as a consequence took a beating doing so. The toughest players have a mental toughness that allows them to compete while not taking stupid and selfish penalties. To imply either Sedin wasn’t tough is moronic. 

They were very tough, they took abuse all season long on the boards like no other players. They didn't have the mental aspect that it takes to win a Stanley Cup. They weren't willing to get down and dirty and show pushback. They thought they'd get their powerplays and capitalize on those. They didn't have an edge.

 

We need players with edge; Miller, Hronek, Cole, Juulsen, Zadorov, Joshua, Garland, Blueger etc... We have a great compliment of those already on the team, but we need it on the 4th. As it stands we have 2 passive players on our 4th line (Mikheyev and Aman). That's not a winning formula, no matter how good they are (when they decide to show up cough Mikheyev cough) between whistles. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

They were very tough, they took abuse all season long on the boards like no other players. They didn't have the mental aspect that it takes to win a Stanley Cup. They weren't willing to get down and dirty and show pushback. They thought they'd get their powerplays and capitalize on those. They didn't have an edge.

 

We need players with edge; Miller, Hronek, Cole, Juulsen, Zadorov, Joshua, Garland, Blueger etc... We have a great compliment of those already on the team, but we need it on the 4th. As it stands we have 2 passive players on our 4th line (Mikheyev and Aman). That's not a winning formula, no matter how good they are (when they decide to show up cough Mikheyev cough) between whistles. 

The Twins were tough as nails. It’s a guy like McWhiner Baby who isn’t tough. He’s always crying and all pouty faced. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Twins were tough as nails. It’s a guy like McWhiner Baby who isn’t tough. He’s always crying and all pouty faced. 

Ok but...

 . 

 

This is basically what Aman did and this video is exactly my problem with it. This post is going to trigger a lot of PTSD from users. This is exactly why we need a team that doesn't react like this. We've been through enough, we need to stop playing the victim ('70 lottery, Messier crosscheck, Bruins bullying us, yada yada yada) and start pushing back. We aren't going to whine our way into our first championship. We're going to win it by stepping up and taking it away from the other team. 

Edited February 13 by HorvatToBaertschi

[Alflives]

Just now, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Ok but...

 . 

 

This is basically what Aman did and this video is exactly my problem with it. 

To imply the Twins were not tough is moronic. As Cherry pointed out the toughest players are those who hold pucks, take a beating, and have the toughness of character to not be selfish and take a retaliation penalty. Reilly is facing a six game suspension while his club is fighting for a playoff spot. Is he tough or selfish and stupid? 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

To imply the Twins were not tough is moronic. As Cherry pointed out the toughest players are those who hold pucks, take a beating, and have the toughness of character to not be selfish and take a retaliation penalty. Reilly is facing a six game suspension while his club is fighting for a playoff spot. Is he tough or selfish and stupid? 

The Sedins were unwilling to play the game the way it needs to be played to win a championship. Sure, they were tough , but that's not what they needed to be. They needed to play with an edge and with pushback. The signals it sent to the Bruins when they refused to "muck it up" is a large factor as to why Boston was able to win the series.

 

Aman is currently doing the same thing. At this rate, he will get absolutely demolished and bullied in a playoff series, and we need more from a 4C. Dowd has that in his game, and that guy has the skill a player like Aman has as well. We don't need to goon it up, we don't need an enforcer. We need players to play with an edge. 

 

Also, you alone are switching this conversation and making it exclusively about the Sedins. I'm using a parallel as to why the Aman nonchalance when he's getting headlocked is bothering me. Tons of fans here love the Sedins (including me), will defend their toughness on the boards and down low any day, but are lucid enough to admit that their pushover mentality was a factor in our championship loss. 

 

PS. I never said the Sedins weren't tough, you implied that on your own. I said their mentality in the Finals was soft, and that's a universal objective fact. They were way too passive and got pushed around by a team that had a field day bullying them. 

Edited February 13 by HorvatToBaertschi

[coho8888]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

To imply the Twins were not tough is moronic. As Cherry pointed out the toughest players are those who hold pucks, take a beating, and have the toughness of character to not be selfish and take a retaliation penalty. Reilly is facing a six game suspension while his club is fighting for a playoff spot. Is he tough or selfish and stupid? 

players are taught to play between the whistles.  No problem with taking some abuse during the play but the league allows that shit after the whistle which is the problem.  They let pukes like Marchand get away with it.  

[Gawdzukes]

15 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Id argue Zac isn't Reaves level useless. Joshua was pretty trash when we first got him too, I'd be curious what our current coaches could do with Zac.

 

One of the least skilled Canucks I've seen this last decade. Joshua was twice the player when he got here. Zac can't play with his teammates to save his life.

Edited February 13 by Gawdzukes

[Hairy Kneel]

3 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I mean, he's an intriguing prospect and has a place on this team in the future. As it stands, he plays wayyyyyy too soft for a 4th line center role, and we'd be much better served with a veteran like Dowd (first off the top of my head).

 

Also, I absolutely despised Aman's reaction when he was put into a headlock in the Boston game. Anything to not take a penalty even though he's being harassed by the other player. Reminded me of Daniel getting punched in the face in the finals. Soft mentality that just doesn't win championships. That's our ultimate goal this year right? Either he finds his edge, or we need to replace him for this season since (like I said), he'll be valuable in the coming years. 

Yes. He needs to go to Abbotsford and the coaches can help him find the weight room. And not to be too lazy to lift. He's got a bit of skill but is not breaking into the top 9 anytime soon. 

We need push back from the 4th line.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

The Sedins were unwilling to play the game the way it needs to be played to win a championship. Sure, they were tough , but that's not what they needed to be. They needed to play with an edge and with pushback. The signals it sent to the Bruins when they refused to "muck it up" is a large factor as to why Boston was able to win the series.

 

Aman is currently doing the same thing. At this rate, he will get absolutely demolished and bullied in a playoff series, and we need more from a 4C. Dowd has that in his game, and that guy has the skill a player like Aman has as well. We don't need to goon it up, we don't need an enforcer. We need players to play with an edge. 

 

Also, you alone are switching this conversation and making it exclusively about the Sedins. I'm using a parallel as to why the Aman nonchalance when he's getting headlocked is bothering me. Tons of fans here love the Sedins (including me), will defend their toughness on the boards and down low any day, but are lucid enough to admit that their pushover mentality was a factor in our championship loss. 

 

PS. I never said the Sedins weren't tough, you implied that on your own. I said their mentality in the Finals was soft, and that's a universal objective fact. They were way too passive and got pushed around by a team that had a field day bullying them. 

The Twins needed a Forsberg streak. It is not just challenging the physical game being played by Marchand it is the perception on both benches. IMHO there is no positive twist you can put on that. Especially true since the refs had put their whistles away. 

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

One of the least skilled Canucks I've seen this last decade. Joshua was twice the player when he got here. Zac can't play with his teammates to save his life.

 

I guess I'm just curious to see what our coaches could do with him.

 

I don't really care either way.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

22 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The Twins needed a Forsberg streak. It is not just challenging the physical game being played by Marchand it is the perception on both benches. IMHO there is no positive twist you can put on that. Especially true since the refs had put their whistles away. 

This. I wouldn't have minded their passiveness between whistles IF it wasn't so absolutely clear that they weren't going to get rewarded for it, like they had up until that point. They needed to adapt and failed to do so.

 

It is completely understandable that a significant portion of the fanbase wants to get away from the kind of mentality. Aman doing it 13 years later, while on a team with the likes of Miller, Blueger, Cole, Myers, Joshua, Garland etc... is unacceptable. Just be a pest.

 

The Canucks organization would benefit from introducing crash courses on Canucks history, and focusing primarily on the '94 and 2011 runs. Even invite some fans that can explain what those runs meant to them, and explain the level of disappointment they felt. I'm getting ahead of myself, but that's how I feel.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

The Sedins were unwilling to play the game the way it needs to be played to win a championship. Sure, they were tough , but that's not what they needed to be. They needed to play with an edge and with pushback. The signals it sent to the Bruins when they refused to "muck it up" is a large factor as to why Boston was able to win the series.

 

Aman is currently doing the same thing. At this rate, he will get absolutely demolished and bullied in a playoff series, and we need more from a 4C. Dowd has that in his game, and that guy has the skill a player like Aman has as well. We don't need to goon it up, we don't need an enforcer. We need players to play with an edge. 

 

Also, you alone are switching this conversation and making it exclusively about the Sedins. I'm using a parallel as to why the Aman nonchalance when he's getting headlocked is bothering me. Tons of fans here love the Sedins (including me), will defend their toughness on the boards and down low any day, but are lucid enough to admit that their pushover mentality was a factor in our championship loss. 

 

PS. I never said the Sedins weren't tough, you implied that on your own. I said their mentality in the Finals was soft, and that's a universal objective fact. They were way too passive and got pushed around by a team that had a field day bullying them. 

 

Dowd is probably an upgrade for sure but they also want a first rounder for him. Finding the right 4th line players is a challenge for every team.

 

I've head this narrative regarding the finals ... of course everyone has but I'm not sure we win if Daniel simply punches Marchand in the face. The Sedins can't or didn't have the mental toughness or willingness to play the right way doesn't really hold water either ... they were one win away from winning it all. That last game could have gone either way with one lucky bounce.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I guess I'm just curious to see what our coaches could do with him.

 

I don't really care either way.

 

Our coaches are elite geniuses but that's a pretty tall ask. There are many players I would rather see them take a chance on but who knows. I do see an opportunity to upgrade Aman for sure.

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Dowd is probably an upgrade for sure but they also want a first rounder for him. Finding the right 4th line players is a challenge for every team.

 

I've head this narrative regarding the finals ... of course everyone has but I'm not sure we win if Daniel simply punches Marchand in the face. The Sedins can't or didn't have the mental toughness or willingness to play the right way doesn't really hold water either ... they were one win away from winning it all. That last game could have gone either way with one lucky bounce.

We objectively got bullied that entire series though. They saw our weakness and pounced on it and it gave them a lot of positives. They were the inferior team and gutted out a win against a far better opponent. It shouldn't have been that close and nothing takse away the fact that the Sedins were pushovers for 7 games and that it cost us. It might not have cost us the entire series, but it was a big factor. 

 

Dowd is out of the realm of possibility for us, and I'm fine keeping Aman, as long as he plays more with an edge and less passive. 

[Pure961089]

On 2/11/2024 at 2:11 PM, Alflives said:

Is the Chaos giraffe a compliment or a criticism. Not too sure when or how to use it. 
 

When you think in terms of Myers having multiple brains all over his body and they all function independently of each other.  It's more funny.  One brain says to go right, one says to go left and one says to cloths-line Petey.  It's all part of what makes Chaos Giraffe special.

 

[Gawdzukes]

19 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

We objectively got bullied that entire series though. They saw our weakness and pounced on it and it gave them a lot of positives. They were the inferior team and gutted out a win against a far better opponent. It shouldn't have been that close and nothing takse away the fact that the Sedins were pushovers for 7 games and that it cost us. It might not have cost us the entire series, but it was a big factor. 

 

Dowd is out of the realm of possibility for us, and I'm fine keeping Aman, as long as he plays more with an edge and less passive. 

 

Unfortunately I don't think you're going to get much more from Aman this season. He's already dealing with a pretty steep learning curve. I think he's doing pretty good just to keep his head above water and play as sound defensively and responsibly as he has. I wouldn't be opposed and I think we'll probably bring at least one more guy in that might bring more of what you're looking for.

 

Don't really agree on the Sedin's. Players like Eichel, Marchessault, Pietrangelo, Sakic, and Lidstrom, and many others all won Cups without being physically in your face players. You do need team toughness though I definitely agree there. I thought team commitment to defence won it for the Bruins though, not facewashes. A first goal in the 7th game and a Canucks win and it completely changes the narrative and toughness likely never even gets brought up.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Unfortunately I don't think you're going to get much more from Aman this season. He's already dealing with a pretty steep learning curve. I think he's doing pretty good just to keep his head above water and play as sound defensively and responsibly as he has. I wouldn't be opposed and I think we'll probably bring at least one more guy in that might bring more of what you're looking for.

 

Don't really agree on the Sedin's. Players like Eichel, Marchessault, Pietrangelo, Sakic, and Lidstrom, and many others all won Cups without being physically in your face players. You do need team toughness though I definitely agree there. I thought team commitment to defence won it for the Bruins though, not facewashes. A first goal in the 7th game and a Canucks win and it completely changes the narrative and toughness likely never even gets brought up.

I think Aman is the long term solution, but we need some grit on the 4th for this run management is clearly preparing.

 

For the bolded, the Canucks' passiveness definitely made the Bruins play each 2 inches taller and 20 lbs bigger, imo. It was a big factor.