Lindholm 2C & keep the Lotto line intact

[TopChed]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Doesn’t McDavid play with wingers who earn a combined $10.6 million?  

I rest my case. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, TopChed said:

I rest my case. 

 

$10.6 million is much more than < 6.  I agree I don’t think we can keep the Lotto Line together.  However, Petey needs at least one top line winger.  I would prefer actually that Lindholm play centre and Petey plays the wing.  That way it frees up Petey to play in a more offensive role and Lindholm can be the defensive centre on that line.  If Lekkerimäki is ready next year then 100% we need to put all 3 Swedish players together on the same line. 

[TopChed]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

$10.6 million is much more than < 6.  I agree I don’t think we can keep the Lotto Line together.  However, Petey needs at least one top line winger.  I would prefer actually that Lindholm play centre and Petey plays the wing.  That way it frees up Petey to play in a more offensive role and Lindholm can be the defensive centre on that line.  If Lekkerimäki is ready next year then 100% we need to put all 3 Swedish players together on the same line. 

Sure so

Pete 12m

Lindholm 8m

other 1m

 

21m is toooooo much for a 2nd line. Even if Lindy signs for 5m he wont but for arguments sake it's still not cost efficient. 

 

Miller 8

Brock 6.75

Lafferty/PDG 

15 ish 

 

Petes line should not exceed 18m it doesn't make sense. 

[TopChed]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

$10.6 million is much more than < 6.  I agree I don’t think we can keep the Lotto Line together.  However, Petey needs at least one top line winger.  I would prefer actually that Lindholm play centre and Petey plays the wing.  That way it frees up Petey to play in a more offensive role and Lindholm can be the defensive centre on that line.  If Lekkerimäki is ready next year then 100% we need to put all 3 Swedish players together on the same line. 

How many cups does McDavid have?

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 hours ago, TopChed said:

If Pete's making 12m we aren't going to be able to play him with 15m in wingers. The kid better learn how to produce with <6m on his line. 18m is plenty to spend on a 1st/2nd line

I’d go

 

Miller-Pettersson-PDG

Hoglander-Lindholm-Boeser 

Joshua-Bluegar-Garland

Mikheyev-Suter-Lafferty

Or, switch PDG and Hogs.  I think the above is fairly balanced in terms of rolling four lines, while keeping the powerful Miller/Petey combo together.  Lindholm gets some scoring wingers in Boeser and Hogs.

[Elias Pettersson]

33 minutes ago, TopChed said:

Sure so

Pete 12m

Lindholm 8m

other 1m

 

21m is toooooo much for a 2nd line. Even if Lindy signs for 5m he wont but for arguments sake it's still not cost efficient. 

 

Miller 8

Brock 6.75

Lafferty/PDG 

15 ish 

 

Petes line should not exceed 18m it doesn't make sense. 

 

If the Swedish line gets put together then that might end being our #1 line.  Especially if Lindholm gets back to being an 80 point player and Lekkerimäki turns into a 30 goal scorer…

[cripplereh]

30 minutes ago, TopChed said:

How many cups does McDavid have?

Off season two so he can play dress up.

[TopChed]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

If the Swedish line gets put together then that might end being our #1 line.  Especially if Lindholm gets back to being an 80 point player and Lekkerimäki turns into a 30 goal scorer…

I hope youre right. I think it would be good for both Pete and Lindholm to spend some time together finding chem. Ultimately I would love each of them to center their own line. 

 

Temper expectations on Lekkerimaki it's nice to see some progress and him flash some skill. But he's still getting outscored by Lucas Jasek who I think we'd agree isn't close. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

Recreating the optimal environment for Elias Lindholm?

 

At his best, Lindholm was playing with Gaudreau and Tkachuk.  
 

Maybe one could do 

 

Pettersson-Lindholm-PDG?

 

Pettersson playing the role of Gaudreau and PDG being the crash and banger like MT (albeit, with far less skill obviously).

 

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser occupy line two.

 

Pettersson-Lindholm-PDG

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser

Joshua-Bluegar-Garland

Mikheyev-Suter-Lafferty

[DrJockitch]

Lindholm is best thought off more as a defensive centre who can provide some offence.
Seeing where we are for league scoring, he really is best used as shutdown guy. 
Playing him with Hoglander probably would be problematic from a defensive shutdown role perspective. 
As good as Hoglander has been offensively, his defensive game still has a ways to go. 

[OldFaithfulcap]

Miller-boes, petey-hogs and bluegs-garland are great combinations.

 

Lotto line is fine with pettey on the wing, i'd just like to see Joshua move up for a few. I don't think the lines need to be static either, maybe different looks are needed.

 

I think pdg with his motor could fill in for joshua and joshua can play with miller-boes and create some space and give extra hitting.

I think linds and pettey will work, i think hogz completes that line (mik was the weaker link)

i think suter should play 4c instead of aman

 

Joshua-Miller-boes

hogz-lind-pettey

pdg-bluegs-garland

mik-suter-lafferty

 

 

 

Edited February 12 by OldFaithfulcap

[wai_lai416]

12 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

My only concern is that Pettersson and Lindholm don’t seem to have much chemistry.  Miller and Boeser are a pair but Miller and Pettersson are also quite good together.  
 

Pettersson unfortunately, isn’t a bus driver.  He needs a guy like Miller to bring out the best in him.  Lindholm and Boeser should be able to clean up on a 2nd line.

lol EP is not a play driver?? then what the hell is he? you mean he's leading the team in EV because kuzmenko mikheyev suter hoglander is driving the play and he's just benefitting by floating around?

[EdgarM]

15 hours ago, VintageActualCanuckfan said:

Where you are not seeing the issue.... JTM and Brock had the same points production when paired with anyone.

Petey (lotto line) was the only one who had an increase in production, but the line he left flatlined.

 

The point is Petey needs his own line but has to RUN the line, like JTM does.... telling guys where to be or what he is gonna do.

Hogz and Podz are the perfect guys for a petey line.

 

Bang on! We do not need to reinvent the top line they are doing fine by themselves, PDG was there and they still produced. 

The Lotto line is a farce, there is a time when you stack 1 line with your best players, its called the "Power Play". 

Petey needs to put his big boy pants on and play like more then he is just a rookie still. 

He is looking for the big payday but hasn't shown he can take that next step and run his own line, he is having a hard time playing center for that matter and he isn't going to get a better line mate then Lindholm.

All the tools are there for him to succeed he just needs to man up and take the bull by the horns already.

[EdgarM]

11 hours ago, TopChed said:

Sure so

Pete 12m

Lindholm 8m

other 1m

 

21m is toooooo much for a 2nd line. Even if Lindy signs for 5m he wont but for arguments sake it's still not cost efficient. 

 

Miller 8

Brock 6.75

Lafferty/PDG 

15 ish 

 

Petes line should not exceed 18m it doesn't make sense. 

 

It would make more sense to have a second line where Lindholm runs it with a 6-7 million dollar winger with him. It would be more cost efficient and would give us extra cap to shore other areas such as our defense.

Otherwise we are looking an awful like "Taranta", and no one wants to look like them. 

[EdgarM]

11 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

I’d go

 

Miller-Pettersson-PDG

Hoglander-Lindholm-Boeser 

Joshua-Bluegar-Garland

Mikheyev-Suter-Lafferty

Or, switch PDG and Hogs.  I think the above is fairly balanced in terms of rolling four lines, while keeping the powerful Miller/Petey combo together.  Lindholm gets some scoring wingers in Boeser and Hogs.

 

I actually think those lines look quite balanced. I would like to see more of what Lindholm can do though as he gets more comfortable with our systems.

[bathgate]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Doesn’t McDavid play with wingers who earn a combined $10.6 million?  

Maybe the reason they have little money for defense and goal. How many cups in mcdavid era?

[bathgate]

I believe a major reason for our success this year is our defence costing approx $28M +$7M for goal. 

Ep40- $12M

Miller- $8M

Brock- $7M

Lindholm- $7M

OEL- 4M

Doesn't leave many $ for rest of team. The coilers W ?I

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, bathgate said:

Maybe the reason they have little money for defense and goal. How many cups in mcdavid era?

Both Vegas and Tampa Bay have $38 million allocated to their top 6. We would be the same with Petey at $12 million and Lindholm at $7.5 million. 
 

How many cups have Vegas and Tampa won?  

[TUSK v2.0]

2 hours ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

Miller-boes, petey-hogs and bluegs-garland are great combinations.

 

Lotto line is fine with pettey on the wing, i'd just like to see Joshua move up for a few. I don't think the lines need to be static either, maybe different looks are needed.

 

I think pdg with his motor could fill in for joshua and joshua can play with miller-boes and create some space and give extra hitting.

I think linds and pettey will work, i think hogz completes that line (mik was the weaker link)

i think suter should play 4c instead of aman

 

Joshua-Miller-boes

hogz-lind-pettey

pdg-bluegs-garland

mik-suter-lafferty

 

 

 

This really makes the most sense, because if you get the chemistry in the pairs, you can rotate the 3rd player around and build "floating" chemistry.

One guy, changes the whole line's ability depending on the opposing line matching.

The lotto line worked for 3 or 4 games because no one scouted it or expected it.

When you can swap guys around, the other team can get confused more often by who they need to cover (based on scouts previewing tape)

Then we cause the Chaos, instead of living in it. You send the 3rd guy out and the other Coach lines up... but then different pair then expected actually jumps over.

[Plaguez]

That suggested 2nd line is a 3rd line.  If the goal is to keep the lotto line together then we are missing a top 6 winger.  

 

I think playing Pettersson with Lindholm is the best thing for the team, having 2 legit lines that are a scoring threat makes match-ups much more difficult than loading up 1 line.  The goal is playoffs and to win in the playoffs we need more than 1 line going.

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, TopChed said:

Sure so

Pete 12m

Lindholm 8m

other 1m

 

21m is toooooo much for a 2nd line. Even if Lindy signs for 5m he wont but for arguments sake it's still not cost efficient. 

 

Miller 8

Brock 6.75

Lafferty/PDG 

15 ish 

 

Petes line should not exceed 18m it doesn't make sense. 

EP re-signing, doesn't at all mean he needs to be the top dog.   What line does Barkov play on again in FLD?   The coach can decide what to do.   The same way EDM and TO and TB have decided what to do.   Brayden Point.    Miller won't likely have the same career arc as Pavelski.   That's a unicorn.    Why don't we see how things go the next ten games or so.     

 

McSaitl don't always play together 5 x 5.   And of course Matavares don't play on the same line.     
 

As far as actual dollars go, don't get caught up in that, instead try cap percentage.     Both lines, will need a cheap vet option, or a guy on an ELC.   That's how this sport works these days.   JR likes pairs - long term ones.   So Lindholm works for a variety of reasons.   

 

Been saying all season, including EPs hot start, he hasn't put himself in that 14% cap percentage region.    Yet anyways.   Still has  all next year and this year and two post seasons to make it though.   

Edited February 12 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Both Vegas and Tampa Bay have $38 million allocated to their top 6. We would be the same with Petey at $12 million and Lindholm at $7.5 million. 
 

How many cups have Vegas and Tampa won?  

TB had 3 killer lines going back before they traded for JT Miller.    Also look at what they locked Hedman in at.     Vegas had a similar depth thing going, but traded some of it away for Eichel.   Still they stuck to their formula, and were rewarded. 

 

Think if the Canucks are to win a cup, they need to lead the charge and make their own destiny, and internal dynamic.   A lot of things need to go right.    Sharing 19-20 million between two players isn't the end of the world, but would sure hope we can match Point and Kucherov, or Point and Stamkos,  or Eichel and Stone, with EP and Lindholm.   Think we can.   In the next couple years.    Also don't think EP's worth 50% more than Miller.    12 seems a little over the top.    11 about bang on.    But don't really care much either.    We won't win a cup without EP in the fold.   And hope he signs and if that's what it takes, so be it.   

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

TB had 3 killer lines going back before they traded for JT Miller.    Also look at what they locked Hedman in at.     Vegas had a similar depth thing going, but traded some of it away for Eichel.   Still they stuck to their formula, and were rewarded. 

 

Think if the Canucks are to win a cup, they need to lead the charge and make their own destiny, and internal dynamic.   A lot of things need to go right.    Sharing 19-20 million between two players isn't the end of the world, but would sure hope we can match Point and Kucherov, or Point and Stamkos,  or Eichel and Stone, with EP and Lindholm.   Think we can.   In the next couple years.    Also don't think EP's worth 50% more than Miller.    12 seems a little over the top.    11 about bang on.    But don't really care much either.    We won't win a cup without EP in the fold.   And hope he signs and if that's what it takes, so be it.   

 

I agree on this.  However, Miller took his bag and security, he could have gotten more on the open market after his 99 point season, but he chose to re-sign here as a 30 year old.  Petey is only 25 and they are looking at trying to lock him up for 8 years.  So this is his big contract and I understand if he wants to take his time on it and bet on himself.  Nylander did the same and was rewarded.  With the cap going up to $100 million in the next 3-4 years, Petey will be at 12% of the cap at $12 million, so as long as he is a 100 point player that is fine moving forward, especially considering we have Miller for 6 more years at only $8 million.

 

The big question will be what will Hughes contract look like in 3 years?  $14 million?  His contract will be bigger than Petey's...

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I agree on this.  However, Miller took his bag and security, he could have gotten more on the open market after his 99 point season, but he chose to re-sign here as a 30 year old.  Petey is only 25 and they are looking at trying to lock him up for 8 years.  So this is his big contract and I understand if he wants to take his time on it and bet on himself.  Nylander did the same and was rewarded.  With the cap going up to $100 million in the next 3-4 years, Petey will be at 12% of the cap at $12 million, so as long as he is a 100 point player that is fine moving forward, especially considering we have Miller for 6 more years at only $8 million.

 

The big question will be what will Hughes contract look like in 3 years?  $14 million?  His contract will be bigger than Petey's...

Miller changed the future of this club.    We can all thank him, for wanting to stay, and wanting to win a cup with us.   There was enough money left over for Horvat, he had $$ ahead of team in mind. 

 

Lindholm was a tactically wise addition.   Gives the team another top six guy to work with.   And gives management some time to properly evaluate both guys (EP too), given it was a month plus before the TDL.     On paper it looks great.

 

As for cap going up.   It's going up 5% this year.   

For the first time in how many years though (not a good average per year).  

 

Planning on that, seems a lot like the 90's and 2000's.   It won't go on forever, and needs to be spread throughout the lineup, and not given to one player ideally.      When comparing any cap era player, it's starting cap percentage that matters, financial crisis, and covid were two things that did happen.   Back to Bullish cycle again.     Lindholm turned down a 9 x 8 deal last summer, fans in Calgary are so relieved, to them, they dodged a bullet.   GMs.   Man they do stupid stuff.    Have zero issue if Lindholm and EP make a combined 20 million.    Say 21.75 for the line.  But only IF they can take over and show us something special first.   Like the WCE line, or the Sedins plus Burrows line. 

Edited February 12 by IBatch

[Junkyard Dog]

21 hours ago, TopChed said:

Suter has been great when given opportunities to play up the line up. I really don't think Kessel is the answer. I hope we can do better. If the prices are excessively high... I would like to give Bains a try. The Canucks desperately lack a playmaker. Pair him with two 40g scorers and see what happens. 

 

Lafferty Miller Brock

Bains Pete Lindholm

Dakota Blueger Garland

Mikheyev Suter PDG 

 

It's clear Mikheyev has no playmaking ability whatsoever. His value is in playing low event mins against good players and poaching breakaways when good players cheat for offense. Mik Suter PDG would probably be one of the best 4th lines in the NHL. 

 

This team isn't gonna put a rookie who hasn't played a single NHL game and who is in his sophomore pro season into the top 6 of a top NHL team when gearing for a deep run. We are not rebuilding. That's so far from what they'd do.

 

JR/PA also have heavily preached long-term development. 

 

Kessel was won multiple cups, would be cheap, enormous amount of playoff experience, and has history with the coach and JR/PA. They are gonna use what cap they have to make additions and Kessel would be a cheap one. 

 

You'd also have Hoglander out of the lineup?!?!