Miss Korea Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: Again, not bothering with answering this because it's not relevant to the discussion at hand, which is the fact that Toronto is objectively having more success with Rielly than with him, despite your adamant posting that this would not happen. Not bothering = don't know Again, you can't name a single player who's been playing better. Just a general "the team looks better" nonsense. Okay, WHO specifically is playing better? If you don't know what type of offensive/defensive schemes Toronto uses, you don't understand how Rielly fits into that system. Just look at us here in Vancouver - if you don't understand what type of offensive/defensive schemes WE use, you don't understand how the various Canucks fit into our systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 @Miss Korea Did you not listen to Nick Kypreos who is an ex-NHL player and kinda knows more about hockey and systems than me and you? He said that the Leafs play a more disciplined system without Rielly in the lineup. They don’t need to worry about his rushes up the ice and getting exposed defensively when he is out there. He also said the Dmen without Rielly in the lineup will not follow his lead and take more chances with the puck. So overall it’s a more tight defensive structure without Rielly in the lineup. If the Canucks lost Hughes, they would also have to tighten up defensively because they couldn’t rely on Hughes breaking out of the dzone and starting the play up the ice. The difference though is that Hughes is much better defensively than Rielly so the Canucks Dmen wouldn’t have to overcompensate as much if he is out of the lineup. At the end of the day, you need to weigh the benefits versus the costs of having a primarily offensive Dman in the lineup who can get exposed defensively versus what he brings to the table offensively. Historically, the Leafs have done just as well without Rielly in the lineup as with him. So there is data to back it up… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: @Miss Korea Did you not listen to Nick Kypreos who is an ex-NHL player and kinda knows more about hockey and systems than me and you? He said that the Leafs play a more disciplined system without Rielly in the lineup. They don’t need to worry about his rushes up the ice and getting exposed defensively when he is out there. He also said the Dmen without Rielly in the lineup will not follow his lead and take more chances with the puck. So overall it’s a more tight defensive structure without Rielly in the lineup. If the Canucks lost Hughes, they would also have to tighten up defensively because they couldn’t rely on Hughes breaking out of the dzone and starting the play up the ice. The difference though is that Hughes is much better defensively than Rielly so the Canucks Dmen wouldn’t have to overcompensate as much if he is out of the lineup. At the end of the day, you need to weigh the benefits versus the costs of having a primarily offensive Dman in the lineup who can get exposed defensively versus what he brings to the table offensively. Historically, the Leafs have done just as well without Rielly in the lineup as with him. So there is data to back it up… I'm more than happy to try engage in a discussion about this with you. But it's just really shitty for Heffy to try and drag me here, only for him to respond to everything I say with "LOL Rielly bad". He mentioned me in bad faith just so he can insult me more. I asked him who was playing better and he refused to answer. I asked him what type of structure Toronto uses and he refused to answer. He doesn't know anything. Back to discussion. Nick Kypreos is an interesting person to bring up. He is known as a bonehead among the non-Leafs fanbases. But if you want intangibles, ask yourself why Nylander came out on record to say "we're playing for Mo". Have you ever seen a team rally behind a player who's out of the lineup? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 8 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I'm more than happy to try engage in a discussion about this with you. But it's just really shitty for Heffy to try and drag me here, only for him to respond to everything I say with "LOL Rielly bad". He mentioned me in bad faith just so he can insult me more. I asked him who was playing better and he refused to answer. I asked him what type of structure Toronto uses and he refused to answer. He doesn't know anything. Back to discussion. Nick Kypreos is an interesting person to bring up. He is known as a bonehead among the non-Leafs fanbases. But if you want intangibles, ask yourself why Nylander came out on record to say "we're playing for Mo". Have you ever seen a team rally behind a player who's out of the lineup? Well, if they are indeed playing for MO then whatever they have changed to tighten up defensively is obviously working. They also managed to score 9 goals in a game without Rielly in the lineup, so perhaps they don’t really need his offence either. That $7.5 million could go towards paying 2 defensive Dmen to allow Toronto to be top heavy on the offensive side, but have a much better defence. Or they could use the money to get better in the bottom 6 forwards. Or they could go all out and actually get a top end goalie. At the end of the day, decisions will need to be made in Toronto. Most likely they exit in the first round again. If the playoffs were to start today they would have to play Florida. Are they going to extend Marner in the summer? If so, how much will he get? $13 million? Can the Leafs afford two $13 million players as well as having Nylander at $11.5 million? Sure, they could make the playoffs every year with what they have, but I don’t see any cups in their future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 45 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Well, if they are indeed playing for MO then whatever they have changed to tighten up defensively is obviously working. They also managed to score 9 goals in a game without Rielly in the lineup, so perhaps they don’t really need his offence either. That $7.5 million could go towards paying 2 defensive Dmen to allow Toronto to be top heavy on the offensive side, but have a much better defence. Or they could use the money to get better in the bottom 6 forwards. Or they could go all out and actually get a top end goalie. At the end of the day, decisions will need to be made in Toronto. Most likely they exit in the first round again. If the playoffs were to start today they would have to play Florida. Are they going to extend Marner in the summer? If so, how much will he get? $13 million? Can the Leafs afford two $13 million players as well as having Nylander at $11.5 million? Sure, they could make the playoffs every year with what they have, but I don’t see any cups in their future. You have to keep in mind that Dubas left Treliving with $16 million in cap space to make some much-needed defensive upgrades. That was apparent to anyone who watched the Leafs all season and especially against Florida. What did he proceed to spend it on? We've already talked about this: complete duds who are already on Robidas Island, been scratched or been discussed as buyout fodder. Klingberg gone. Domi and Bertuzzi underperforming. Reaves a complete bust. For that money, they could've gotten Cole, Soucy, Suter, Blueger, acquired DeSmith for cheap... and still had cash to spare. They had money to spend on better defensive D-men/forwards and they just didn't. What we are seeing overall is the natural outcome of that. The Leafs were making the playoffs every year with the teams that Kyle Dubas constructed - and that is still an achievement that hasn't respected enough. That consistency has been put into serious jeopardy because of the significant downgrades brought on by Treliving. Digressing back to the current situation, the two biggest depth players to step up in Rielly's absence has been the much-maligned Tim Liljegren and Bobby McMann. That top pairing has looked fantastic. T.J. Brodie is a weird case of a left-handed D who seems to have always played better on his right side than his left side. Leafs fans have groaned in the past about him playing the left side. But right now, that Brodie-Liljegren pairing has been getting work done. I can't understate how depleted that Leafs core looks like right now. Rielly is out. Giordano is out. Lagesson is out. Timmins is out long-term again. So now they've been using Max Lajoie and... Marshall Rifai (who??) just played his first game. At this point the Leafs are quite literally using AHL talent - half of their current blueline has played games for the Marlies this season. Who is going to look at that depleted defence core and suggest nothing be done because they're winning games? Would you suggest they keep sitting Mo and Gio and just stick with these six defencemen, and not go after someone like Chris Tanev? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: You have to keep in mind that Dubas left Treliving with $16 million in cap space to make some much-needed defensive upgrades. That was apparent to anyone who watched the Leafs all season and especially against Florida. What did he proceed to spend it on? We've already talked about this: complete duds who are already on Robidas Island, been scratched or been discussed as buyout fodder. Klingberg gone. Domi and Bertuzzi underperforming. Reaves a complete bust. For that money, they could've gotten Cole, Soucy, Suter, Blueger, acquired DeSmith for cheap... and still had cash to spare. They had money to spend on better defensive D-men/forwards and they just didn't. What we are seeing overall is the natural outcome of that. The Leafs were making the playoffs every year with the teams that Kyle Dubas constructed - and that is still an achievement that hasn't respected enough. That consistency has been put into serious jeopardy because of the significant downgrades brought on by Treliving. Digressing back to the current situation, the two biggest depth players to step up in Rielly's absence has been the much-maligned Tim Liljegren and Bobby McMann. That top pairing has looked fantastic. T.J. Brodie is a weird case of a left-handed D who seems to have always played better on his right side than his left side. Leafs fans have groaned in the past about him playing the left side. But right now, that Brodie-Liljegren pairing has been getting work done. I can't understate how depleted that Leafs core looks like right now. Rielly is out. Giordano is out. Lagesson is out. Timmins is out long-term again. So now they've been using Max Lajoie and... Marshall Rifai (who??) just played his first game. At this point the Leafs are quite literally using AHL talent - half of their current blueline has played games for the Marlies this season. Who is going to look at that depleted defence core and suggest nothing be done because they're winning games? Would you suggest they keep sitting Mo and Gio and just stick with these six defencemen, and not go after someone like Chris Tanev? If they want Tanev it will cost them their first round pick. If they decide not to do that trade, then that tells me that they have no confidence they can win the cup with their current lineup. I do agree about that $16 million. It was the same thing with Allvin. He made the decision to buy out OEL so he could upgrade the defence with Soucy and Cole and then eventually Zadorov. You put Soucy, Cole and Zadorov on Toronto and then add Tanev and they could actually be a cup contender. But Treliving had other plans. He destroyed Calgary, now he is destroying Toronto too. Having said that, being a top heavy team was the fault of Dubas. Sure, he had a playoff team every year, but the goal should always be to win the cup. Seems Toronto doesn’t understand this. And this goes way beyond Dubas. We are talking 56 years and counting. Toronto fans always seem to show up no matter what. It is a hockey city regardless how the team is doing. So perhaps the urgency to win the cup isn’t there as much as other cities. Edited February 21 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: If they want Tanev it will cost them their first round pick. If they decide not to do that trade, then that tells me that they have no confidence they can win the cup with their current lineup. I do agree about that $16 million. It was the same thing with Allvin. He made the decision to buy out OEL so he could upgrade the defence with Soucy and Cole and then eventually Zadorov. You put Soucy, Cole and Zadorov on Toronto and then add Tanev and they could actually be a cup contender. But Treliving had other plans. He destroyed Calgary, now he is destroying Toronto too. Having said that, being a top heavy team was the fault of Dubas. Sure, he had a playoff team every year, but the goal should always be to win the cup. Seems Toronto doesn’t understand this. And this goes way beyond Dubas. We are talking 56 years and counting. Toronto fans always seem to show up no matter what. It is a hockey city regardless how the team is doing. So perhaps the urgency to win the cup isn’t there as much as other cities. I mean, you tell me. There are clowns here suggesting the Leafs are somehow a better team with pairings of Lajoie-Rifai and Benoit-Lagesson, all because they've strung a couple of wins together. It's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. As for your generalization of Toronto... it's not a very fair one to make. For starters, you can't go back 56 years and look at it as one entire era of failure. That's like looking at Vancouver's 54 years as just one era of failure. Just ask any Leafs fan if they'd want Harold Ballard as their owner again. Or any Canucks fan if they'd want John McCaw as their owner again. But to be honest, I wish Vancouver had the same level of fanaticism for their team as a city like Toronto or Montreal. You're 100% right - Toronto is a hockey city, and their fans show up to games no matter what. How did you spin that as a point of criticism against the Leafs? Is Arizona more urgent to win the cup because of their weak fanbase? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/13/2024 at 9:57 AM, Rekker said: We shall see. I'm betting Leafs better than ever this season for the stretch without Reilly. They will give the minutes to a dman that actually helps prevent goals and will be better for it. Offence will be fine without Reilly. Total fluffball. On 2/13/2024 at 10:16 AM, Miss Korea said: Yet another one of your brutal takes. They don't have a single puck-moving defenceman outside of Rielly and their defensive struggles have increased threefold this year. Rielly has always been there - he is not the reason they are much worse compared to seasons past. 5-0 without Rielly. Turned out to be completely accurate and not a brutal take at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/19/2024 at 4:13 PM, Elias Pettersson said: I think they will do it. 5-0 without Rielly would be hilarious… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 hours ago, Miss Korea said: I mean, you tell me. There are clowns here suggesting the Leafs are somehow a better team with pairings of Lajoie-Rifai and Benoit-Lagesson, all because they've strung a couple of wins together. It's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. As for your generalization of Toronto... it's not a very fair one to make. For starters, you can't go back 56 years and look at it as one entire era of failure. That's like looking at Vancouver's 54 years as just one era of failure. Just ask any Leafs fan if they'd want Harold Ballard as their owner again. Or any Canucks fan if they'd want John McCaw as their owner again. But to be honest, I wish Vancouver had the same level of fanaticism for their team as a city like Toronto or Montreal. You're 100% right - Toronto is a hockey city, and their fans show up to games no matter what. How did you spin that as a point of criticism against the Leafs? Is Arizona more urgent to win the cup because of their weak fanbase? Huh? Toronto being a hockey city means the fans will show up to the rink whether they win or lose. I believe every game has sold out or close to it since they entered the league. Should that be a point of criticism? Only in the fact that Leafs fans are simply happy to go to the games. They have no expectations of winning a cup. If they did, they wouldn’t show up unless the team was serious about icing a contender. Vancouver used to have sellouts every game until Benning took over. Then they stopped. Why? Because the team sucked. So we are not like Toronto. Eventually Canucks fans will stop going to the games if the team sucks. I remember back in the late 80’s when the Canucks were getting 7000 fans for games at Pacific Coliseum. You could get in for free after the 1st period. That’s how bad it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, King Heffy said: 5-0 without Rielly. Turned out to be completely accurate and not a brutal take at all. Yet again, you're unable to articulate any actual reason other than saying something incredibly stupid. You didn't watch any of the games and you couldn't identify a single player who stepped up. Straight up - your opinion is trash because you never have anything to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 19 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Yet again, you're unable to articulate any actual reason other than saying something incredibly stupid. You didn't watch any of the games and you couldn't identify a single player who stepped up. Straight up - your opinion is trash because you never have anything to back it up. The record speaks for itself. You never provide anything of value to back it up and substitute Jfresh trash for actual understanding of the game. Those of us that thought Toronto would improve without Rielly and would win these games are objectively correct. Clearly you still haven't learned that you can be incorrect about something, and to respect other posters opinions. The bottom line is that Toronto won all five games despite your adamant assertions that they were in deep trouble and your disrespect towards those who disagreed. Doubling down when you were so obviously incorrect is low, even for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The record speaks for itself. You never provide anything of value to back it up and substitute Jfresh trash for actual understanding of the game. Those of us that thought Toronto would improve without Rielly and would win these games are objectively correct. Clearly you still haven't learned that you can be incorrect about something, and to respect other posters opinions. The bottom line is that Toronto won all five games despite your adamant assertions that they were in deep trouble and your disrespect towards those who disagreed. Doubling down when you were so obviously incorrect is low, even for you. You don't get to criticize others for not respecting opinions when you're trying to suggest I post trash. If you knew how to respect other people's opinions, you would actually respond just once to anything I've prompted you with. But you haven't, because you're too much of a coward to put in any kind of work. Unlike you, I've actually followed who has been playing well in Rielly's absence. Unlike you, I've actually followed what types of coaching schemes Keefe has used this season - what's worked and what hasn't. And unlike you, I know where Morgan Rielly fits into that system, for better or for worse. All you've posted here is the same braindead statement: "Rielly is AHL trash" "Rielly is AHL trash" "Rielly is AHL trash". You literally haven't said anything else. "He's getting suspended because he's AHL trash" "Toronto is losing because he's AHL trash" "Toronto is winning because he's AHL trash" You literally have one of the most worthless hockey opinions anywhere. That's why I challenged you multiple times to come up with someone actually backing up your opinion. I gave you many opportunities to back your opinions with anything substantive. And you've never stepped up to the occasion. On a personal level, I actually think there's something wrong with you, for you to be so unwilling to actually put some research in and support anything you claim. No bottom line, no blanket statements. Break it down. Forget Rielly for a moment and break down how Toronto won its past 5 games. Tell me who's been playing well and why. I've just asked you a simple question and if you can't answer it, you should be ashamed of yourself after this dumbass diatribe you've laid on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Toronto being a hockey city means the fans will show up to the rink whether they win or lose. I believe every game has sold out or close to it since they entered the league. Should that be a point of criticism? Only in the fact that Leafs fans are simply happy to go to the games. They have no expectations of winning a cup. If they did, they wouldn’t show up unless the team was serious about icing a contender. Vancouver used to have sellouts every game until Benning took over. Then they stopped. Why? Because the team sucked. So we are not like Toronto. Eventually Canucks fans will stop going to the games if the team sucks. I remember back in the late 80’s when the Canucks were getting 7000 fans for games at Pacific Coliseum. You could get in for free after the 1st period. That’s how bad it was. Don't be ridiculous - saying this kind of stuff just makes you sound ridiculous. If you think even one member of Leafs Nation is happy with the repeated failures of the Matthews era, you're deluding yourself. Sure, Leafs can be annoying and they can be cocky. Some of them have a persecution complex, not unlike any other hockey fan but also distinct as Torontonians. But suggesting they don't care whether they win or lose? That's just an unnecessary, disrespectful, and frankly wrong argument to make about any fanbase. Remember when we talked about FC Shalke 04 a couple weeks back? They're stuck in the 2nd division and fighting off relegation to the 3rd/4th division. They're still selling out some of their games. Still an average an attendance of 60K fans per match. What would you say about their fanbase? That they don't care whether their team wins or not? I have never, ever heard someone say with pride that their own city (Vancouver) has a weak fanbase that's unwilling to support their team during the tough years. You're bragging about the fans not showing up when the Canucks suck. That's what other fanbases say to make fun of us, man. Your free tickets story is embarrassing. Imagine if BOSTON gave away free tickets because they couldn't fill seats. Are you also going to ridicule Minnesota fans for not wanting to win because they always sell out? Are you also going to ridicule MONTREAL fans for not wanting to win because they always sell out!?? Their team has been hot garbage for years now and they're always at full capacity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 hours ago, King Heffy said: 5-0 without Rielly. Turned out to be completely accurate and not a brutal take at all. Bang on. Here's another one for you. He's terrible defensively and his offence does not make up for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/13/2024 at 10:16 AM, Miss Korea said: Yet another one of your brutal takes. They don't have a single puck-moving defenceman outside of Rielly and their defensive struggles have increased threefold this year. Rielly has always been there - he is not the reason they are much worse compared to seasons past. That aged well. I know you love your stats. Here's one for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/13/2024 at 9:18 AM, Miss Korea said: The Leafs are fucked if they lose Rielly this month. Another example where your stats don't mean squat. Eye test has shown for years that Reilly is crap in his end. His offence does not make up for his complete lack of defensive ability. Laffable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Rekker said: Another example where your stats don't mean squat. Eye test has shown for years that Reilly is crap in his end. His offence does not make up for his complete lack of defensive ability. Laffable. He doesn't want to live in reality. He's so deluded that he has nothing left but personal attacks and apparently the burden of proof is on us despite the Leafs record speaking for itself. Probably best to leave him in his own little world since he seems incapable of following the board rules when he gets exposed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, King Heffy said: He doesn't want to live in reality. He's so deluded that he has nothing left but personal attacks and apparently the burden of proof is on us despite the Leafs record speaking for itself. Probably best to leave him in his own little world since he seems incapable of following the board rules when he gets exposed. It's the righteous attitude and inability to see others point of views, or to admit mistakes that drives me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Rekker said: It's the righteous attitude and inability to see others point of views, or to admit mistakes that drives me nuts. Me too. It's like arguing with the one kid in class who still believes in the Easter Bunny. Edited February 22 by King Heffy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/20/2024 at 11:46 AM, Coconuts said: Pinto got all those games suspended- but did not bet on the NHL? League be fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 @Rekker @King Heffy I've asked you guys some simple questions before and youve both been utterly incapable of giving any kind of coherent answer. Tell me, gentlemen - who has been playing well in Morgan Rielly's absence? It's a pretty easy question. Feel free to respond with more personal attacks since I know you're both hypocrites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 26 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Me too. It's like arguing with the one kid in class who still believes in the Easter Bunny. This along with your previous behavior essentially affirms you were a bully a growing up. There's not much more to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 The Toronto Maple Leafs are 35-19-2 without Auston Matthews all-time. The Pittsburgh Penguins have a record of 121-64-28 without Sidney Crosby all-time. The Tampa Bay Lightning have a record of 86-38-15 without Nikita Kucherov all-time. The Vegas Golden Knights had a record of 23-9-7 without Mark Stone all-time. The Colorado Avalanche have a record of 71-47-21 without Cale Makar all-time. The Boston Bruins have a record of 60-38-10 without David Pastrnak all-time. The New York Rangers have a 7-2-1 record without Adam Fox since 2022-23. I can go all fucking day, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Miss Korea said: The Toronto Maple Leafs are 35-19-2 without Auston Matthews all-time. The Pittsburgh Penguins have a record of 121-64-28 without Sidney Crosby all-time. The Tampa Bay Lightning have a record of 86-38-15 without Nikita Kucherov all-time. The Vegas Golden Knights had a record of 23-9-7 without Mark Stone all-time. The Colorado Avalanche have a record of 71-47-21 without Cale Makar all-time. The Boston Bruins have a record of 60-38-10 without David Pastrnak all-time. The New York Rangers have a 7-2-1 record without Adam Fox since 2022-23. I can go all fucking day, guys. Apparently, you do have all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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