IBatch Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, TopChed said: I do not want Kessel. We just traded Kuz adding Kessel would send the wrong message IMO. How? I'm not sure Kessel will pass his physical. That said, he's a winner. And keeps winning. Kuzmenko was given every chance to play the right way. There's a reason why they are targeting Kessel, and it's not to score a bunch of goals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 35 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: I think you’re going to be very disappointed if you’re expecting Phil Kessel to be a Top 6 calibre player at this juncture of his career. I expect him to be a 13th forward if he makes the team. Aman is the 13th forward. Aman is the guy this forward group, needs to manage to bump down. Agree that Kessel, Pizza and Lafferty are the barrel scrapings. I'd much rather see Suter centering the fourth line though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 17 minutes ago, IBatch said: How? I'm not sure Kessel will pass his physical. That said, he's a winner. And keeps winning. Kuzmenko was given every chance to play the right way. There's a reason why they are targeting Kessel, and it's not to score a bunch of goals. i think kessel will pass his physical if he can pass his physical last season in the shape he was in.. he probably pass the physical this time too considering they said he trained all year to stay in shape. Tocchet loved Kessel in pittsburgh and he's one of his most trusted player in arizona.. JR brought the guy in and won back to back cups.. trust and familiarity plays a big factor.. he may not play every game or he might not even play any game in the playoff.. but having his experience in the locker room doesn't hurt even if he doesn't play.. all it cost the canucks is a roster spot for a fringe player like jet woo.. and later on friedman when soucy is back.. and if he doesn't work out.. he can be buried in the ahl for the rest of the season.. doesn't hurt or cost us anything.. other than aquaman's money so who cares. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 37 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: i think kessel will pass his physical if he can pass his physical last season in the shape he was in.. he probably pass the physical this time too considering they said he trained all year to stay in shape. Tocchet loved Kessel in pittsburgh and he's one of his most trusted player in arizona.. JR brought the guy in and won back to back cups.. trust and familiarity plays a big factor.. he may not play every game or he might not even play any game in the playoff.. but having his experience in the locker room doesn't hurt even if he doesn't play.. all it cost the canucks is a roster spot for a fringe player like jet woo.. and later on friedman when soucy is back.. and if he doesn't work out.. he can be buried in the ahl for the rest of the season.. doesn't hurt or cost us anything.. other than aquaman's money so who cares. Doesn't cost us anything. Sure it will be a league min contract. Best case for me anyways, is he can bump Aman out. Suter on the fourth line with Laffery and Mikheyev would be great. Or Mikheyev back in the top six. Aman as the 13th guy would be nice. We won't lose a thing as you said. Low expectations. Sure he will add something to the dressing room. Edited February 14 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, IBatch said: The Lotto line only needs to show up now and again. At this point, think EP and Lindholm should continue to play together to see if they can gain some chemistry. If Kessel can survive his fitness test, and or at least show the brass he can still manage the NHL, maybe he can have spot duty in the top six..: ideally he could push Suter to the 4th line and replace Aman. Probably too much to hope for. Maybe I’m being too quick to judge but I haven’t been a huge fan of the Petey/Lindholm pairing. Would much rather see Petey play with Boeser or Miller Aside from Kessel, I wonder if Alvin intends to bring up Lekkerimaki or Podkolzin up to the bigs (are they waiver exempt? - I don’t think Podkolzin is but am not 100% sure). My problem with a Suter-Miller-Boeser Hoglander-Pettersson-Lindholm type set up is that neither line really scares anyone and can manhandled physically. The Lotto line can tilt the ice in a similar manner to the WCE and Sedins/Burrows. With the Lotto Line fucking with the heads of opposing coaches, this can free up the Garland line…….or even a Lindholm line if you get someone like Kessel and/or Lekkerimaki on there. Hoglander-Suter-Mikheyev then make for a stacked fourth line. Pettersson-Miller-Boeser Kessel-Lindholm-Lekkerimaki Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Hoglander-Suter-Mikheyev Aman (maybe under this scenario, PDG gets moved to Philly for one of their rumoured dmen?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Pettersson Miller Boeser Höglander Lindholm Kessel Joshua Blueger Garland Mikheyev Suter Lafferty I would try that when Kessel arrives… I was kind of wonderin if that may be the situation, but who knows. The arrival in Vancouver could be his Agent trying to put pressure on the club to look at him seriously, and if so, appears to be working. Maybe he is signed, and if cheaply, I am not opposed. The Lotto Line and the THIRD line are already home runs, Lindholm with Hogs and Kessel: would opponents fear that line as much as the other two? And does that make our fourth line just a bunch of spare parts? I rather like the fourth with Phil De Gizzy and Laffs on it, seems like a tough line that way but having two C's on it with Mikehev, Suter and Lafferty could make that an upper case 4th line. I wonder. it will be fun to see what they do for sure. I think the lotto line only gets reunited though if the 2nd line can start producing, maybe PHil is the catalyst for that? Lets find out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 hours ago, Sativika said: I'm no egghead when it comes to this hockey mumbo jumbo. I mean, I care somewhat about this stuff Truthfully, I'm just a fanboy through and through. I love my Canucks and whatever they're doing (Obviously this 2-1-2 thingy!) is working. The 3rd Line stays as it is as far as I'm concerned. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! I'm sure in the playoffs we'll see adjustments. I believe this coaching staff has the smarts to alter matchups as needed in games. Kessel coming in definitely changes the dynamic some. Basically looks like Aman and PDG are out and relegated to13th and 14th depth guys which is fine. I'm curious how Kessel's presence on whatever line works for chemistry and such. Kessel seems adaptable and I'm sure he'd be happy to play where he's placed. Having no idea of his fitness, I'm guessing he'll be slotted into a spot that uses his offensive abilities. I dunno. The CFF egghead types can discuss such things. Thank you Eggheads. Where would we be without ya'! Go Canucks Go!!!!! The simple version of this is... forecheck with speed and numbers, force defenders to make mistakes and get scoring chances. All 4 lines do it, and Garland's line does it exceptionally well. Trying to attribute their success to favourable matchups is absurd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Maybe I’m being too quick to judge but I haven’t been a huge fan of the Petey/Lindholm pairing. Would much rather see Petey play with Boeser or Miller Aside from Kessel, I wonder if Alvin intends to bring up Lekkerimaki or Podkolzin up to the bigs (are they waiver exempt? - I don’t think Podkolzin is but am not 100% sure). My problem with a Suter-Miller-Boeser Hoglander-Pettersson-Lindholm type set up is that neither line really scares anyone and can manhandled physically. The Lotto line can tilt the ice in a similar manner to the WCE and Sedins/Burrows. With the Lotto Line fucking with the heads of opposing coaches, this can free up the Garland line…….or even a Lindholm line if you get someone like Kessel and/or Lekkerimaki on there. Hoglander-Suter-Mikheyev then make for a stacked fourth line. Pettersson-Miller-Boeser Kessel-Lindholm-Lekkerimaki Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Hoglander-Suter-Mikheyev Aman (maybe under this scenario, PDG gets moved to Philly for one of their rumoured dmen?) Don't you find that statement worrisome? You are paying these guys an absorbent amount of money and they are not able to do their job? If you have to put your best(top paid) forwards on one line to be effective that's an issue. Who else in the league does that? If Petey and Lindholm are not a dangerous offensive pairing, then why are they even on this team? 16 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: The simple version of this is... forecheck with speed and numbers, force defenders to make mistakes and get scoring chances. All 4 lines do it, and Garland's line does it exceptionally well. Trying to attribute their success to favourable matchups is absurd. The Garland line is a perfect example of how RT wants these guys to play and they do it well and they do it consistently. I am with you, how do others not see that? The only reason I see the top 6 not having the same success, is that they are not always consistent in playing this way and their seemingly streaky play is that commitment to play that style of play all the time. We have seen them when they are on? They are on! Pretty much unbeatable, but we don't always see that level of play from them. I don't agree to the matchup thing either , if your opponent out works you, they out work you no matter who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, EdgarM said: Don't you find that statement worrisome? You are paying these guys an absorbent amount of money and they are not able to do their job? If you have to put your best(top paid) forwards on one line to be effective that's an issue. Who else in the league does that? If Petey and Lindholm are not a dangerous offensive pairing, then why are they even on this team? The Garland line is a perfect example of how RT wants these guys to play and they do it well and they do it consistently. I am with you, how do others not see that? The only reason I see the top 6 not having the same success, is that they are not always consistent in playing this way and their seemingly streaky play is that commitment to play that style of play all the time. We have seen them when they are on? They are on! Pretty much unbeatable, but we don't always see that level of play from them. I don't agree to the matchup thing either , if your opponent out works you, they out work you no matter who they are. Yes, I do. Perhaps I’m mistaken but I don’t have a lot of confidence in any of our lines with the exception of the Garland line. I just don’t get a sense that Miller/Boeser on one line and Pettersson/Lindholm on another line will hurt anyone come playoff time. On the flip side, I believe that the Lotto Line is also extremely formidable, to the point where Lotto Line + Garland Line will give opponents fits. One combination that I wouldn’t mind experimenting with is Miller/Lindholm on one line and Pettersson/Boeser on another line, with Miller/Lindholm taking on the tougher match ups. Hoglander-Miller-Lindholm PDG-Pettersson-Boeser Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Mikheyev-Suter-Lafferty Maybe something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Miller and Boeser need to be broken up as a duo, they've been dead quiet for a while now. Hoglander is a type of player who can spark a line. Garland and Joshua are the same (but we're not touching them). Petey - Lindholm - Boeser Suter - Miller - Hoglander Joshua - Blueger - Garland PDG - Aman - Lafferty Really mix things up a lot there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Yes, I do. Perhaps I’m mistaken but I don’t have a lot of confidence in any of our lines with the exception of the Garland line. I just don’t get a sense that Miller/Boeser on one line and Pettersson/Lindholm on another line will hurt anyone come playoff time. On the flip side, I believe that the Lotto Line is also extremely formidable, to the point where Lotto Line + Garland Line will give opponents fits. One combination that I wouldn’t mind experimenting with is Miller/Lindholm on one line and Pettersson/Boeser on another line, with Miller/Lindholm taking on the tougher match ups. Hoglander-Miller-Lindholm PDG-Pettersson-Boeser Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Mikheyev-Suter-Lafferty Maybe something like that. The Miller/Boeser/PDG was doing OK at the beginning of the season and I don't see much of a difference in Miller and Boeser's production with or without Petey really. Having Miller and Lindholm together and then Petey by himself puts a strain on face offs, Lindholm and Miler are our strongest face off guys in the top six. I think Lindholm is our strongest 2 way centermen so he needs to be 2C. Miller/Boeser is the other pair so we have to make Petey fit with Lindholm or we are screwed. We can't seem to find anyone who has chemistry with Petey at all , other then the Lotto line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 hours ago, EdgarM said: Don't you find that statement worrisome? You are paying these guys an absorbent amount of money and they are not able to do their job? If you have to put your best(top paid) forwards on one line to be effective that's an issue. Who else in the league does that? If Petey and Lindholm are not a dangerous offensive pairing, then why are they even on this team? The Garland line is a perfect example of how RT wants these guys to play and they do it well and they do it consistently. I am with you, how do others not see that? The only reason I see the top 6 not having the same success, is that they are not always consistent in playing this way and their seemingly streaky play is that commitment to play that style of play all the time. We have seen them when they are on? They are on! Pretty much unbeatable, but we don't always see that level of play from them. I don't agree to the matchup thing either , if your opponent out works you, they out work you no matter who they are. You have to know what you're looking for before actively watching the plays develop. If you know they're running a 2-1-2 forecheck, you'll start noticing it more. If you know they're running a low-high rim release, you'll start noticing that more too. Having a great forecheck isn't enough to create an elite offence - you need other ways of crushing opponents, and the Canucks' most deadly weapon is puck movement in the offensive zone. Watching hockey this way might be boring for some but it's a great insight into the coaching tactics Rick Tocchet has brought in. And anyone who tries to contradict me basically has to go against video evidence showing repeated set plays. Good luck with that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlar Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 On 2/14/2024 at 11:00 AM, Jeremy Hronek said: Analyze the following argument: "The Canucks can comfortably re-unite the Lotto Line since the Bluegar, Garland, Joshua line already produces enough secondary scoring. Therefore, the idea of opposing teams just focusing their top shut down men and top pairing on the Lotto Line come playoff time is a bit of a moot point. Furthermore, any combination of a 4th line involving Suter, Hoglander, Lafferty, Mikheyev, etc., should be able to continue to produce semi-consistent offence against whatever 4th line they play against. Therefore, it's not vital that a 2nd line with Lindholm be able to produce offence. As long as they can shut down and contain opposing lines, while still having the potential to produce offensively, then secondary scoring for this team shouldn't be a problem. Re-unite the Lotto line and let our 3rd and 4th lines continue to provide the secondary offence that they've been producing all-season." I'm actually all for it. But timing is everything, unleash them a few games before the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 23 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: i think kessel will pass his physical if he can pass his physical last season in the shape he was in.. he probably pass the physical this time too considering they said he trained all year to stay in shape. Tocchet loved Kessel in pittsburgh and he's one of his most trusted player in arizona.. JR brought the guy in and won back to back cups.. trust and familiarity plays a big factor.. he may not play every game or he might not even play any game in the playoff.. but having his experience in the locker room doesn't hurt even if he doesn't play.. all it cost the canucks is a roster spot for a fringe player like jet woo.. and later on friedman when soucy is back.. and if he doesn't work out.. he can be buried in the ahl for the rest of the season.. doesn't hurt or cost us anything.. other than aquaman's money so who cares. Tochett has a similar thing going with this team, that he had with PIT and Kessel already. That's the best third line in hockey. Kessel and Hagelin and was it Bonino? Spent the majority of his time in the playoffs, counter-attacking with their speed. Meanwhile Crosby took the toughest match ups, and Malkin did his thing. Our team is of course built differently. Our Crosby plays defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 10 hours ago, Miss Korea said: You have to know what you're looking for before actively watching the plays develop. If you know they're running a 2-1-2 forecheck, you'll start noticing it more. If you know they're running a low-high rim release, you'll start noticing that more too. Having a great forecheck isn't enough to create an elite offence - you need other ways of crushing opponents, and the Canucks' most deadly weapon is puck movement in the offensive zone. Watching hockey this way might be boring for some but it's a great insight into the coaching tactics Rick Tocchet has brought in. And anyone who tries to contradict me basically has to go against video evidence showing repeated set plays. Good luck with that! Like you've shown (pretty sure) with other videos, it's also their skating ability, they don't stop moving and are constantly "scissoring" East to West in a forward motion which opens up space and creates chaos trying to defend against it. The Sedins cycled their opponents to the point they couldn't keep up then struck, tired defenders down and kept the puck where you wanted it ... this team forecheck's which also tires our defenders, and keeps them chasing. When on, and it's clicking, it creates the illusion that we are on the power play and up a man (both styles). Edited February 15 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Anyone starting to see my point of view here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said: Anyone starting to see my point of view here? Edited February 20 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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