[PGT] Canucks at Shithawks - 02/13/24

[Johnny]

2 hours ago, spook007 said:

doubtful you'll get either for that...  Maybe Hogs for a couple more, but Joshua will be looking for more, I think. 

Its the price of success... and fair play to both sides... cheap short term deals to put themselves in the shop windows, and if it doesn't work, it won't be anchors for the future... great management.

Hogs will eventually be paid like a top 6, he is likely taking a 2-3 year deal around 2.5-3 then it will be up in the 5-6 range

 

Joshua will be getting mac 3.25. While him and the rest of his line has been great, their production is still third line production with the odd game where they dominate. This is also a career year for Daks so that needs to be considered 

 

Blueger is close to putting together a career year but is on pace to have second best. I see him still in the 2.5-3 range depending on term

 

All of these players would get more from other teams, though hogz is an RFA

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Anyone still waiting for this team to fall can get off at the next stop.

 

Sure, they'll lose games and even have stinkers at times....happens. But this year, they've proven that they can hang with the big boys and even stand above them in the overall picture. They have a good mix now....skill, speed, toughness (will have to show that side in the playoffs), goaltending, secondary scoring (our thirst line in particular), and coaching that is keeping it all intact. Even when we don't get calls they don't unravel.

 

It's just a great year overall. And anyone still looking to gripe and moan is missing out on some quality time.

Yes.    Canucks are the talk of the town.  Talk of the NHL.   Let's enjoy this.    

[IBatch]

37 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Hogs will eventually be paid like a top 6, he is likely taking a 2-3 year deal around 2.5-3 then it will be up in the 5-6 range

 

Joshua will be getting mac 3.25. While him and the rest of his line has been great, their production is still third line production with the odd game where they dominate. This is also a career year for Daks so that needs to be considered 

 

Blueger is close to putting together a career year but is on pace to have second best. I see him still in the 2.5-3 range depending on term

 

All of these players would get more from other teams, though hogz is an RFA

 

Odd game where they dominate and thinking "it's still third line production" ... take issue with that (although agree that's what it should look like...just rarely does anymore). 

 

That is very 80's to early 90's.   As in it's been a while since we've seen a 3rd line produce like they are doing.    They are already miles ahead of the WCE era and Sedin era.    Who scored more than say 30 points?   Did Cooke do it once?   Brad May?  Maholtra?  Torres?   Here is our pres trophy team.     People still talk about that like it was top end.    Hilarious considering in 92-93 Nedved scored 38 goals mostly as a 3rd line center.     We've already got ten 11 goal  scorers, in just 54 games...Recent Canuck teams.   Horvat was a solid second line center.   Scoring how many even strength goals a season?   Think that's a bit pre-mature. 

 

A full season, I count 9 below.   Here we have Raymond as a top six scoring 39.   3 bottom six/middle six guys flirting with 30.   Seriously, the last time we had a third line more productive, was the early 90's.   Dixon Ward,  Nedved/Craven.   Or was it Momesso, Ronning, Courtnall.   Just like today, hard to say which line is better 5 x 5.     You can take a horse to water and all that.   40 EV points is elite  for a 3rd line.   Has been for 2.5 decades now. 

Edited February 14 by IBatch

[spook007]

23 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Hogs will eventually be paid like a top 6, he is likely taking a 2-3 year deal around 2.5-3 then it will be up in the 5-6 range

 

Joshua will be getting mac 3.25. While him and the rest of his line has been great, their production is still third line production with the odd game where they dominate. This is also a career year for Daks so that needs to be considered 

 

Blueger is close to putting together a career year but is on pace to have second best. I see him still in the 2.5-3 range depending on term

 

All of these players would get more from other teams, though hogz is an RFA

That is my point. 
Hogs maybe a short term contract, as he is still raw, but Joshua is 27 and looking to be paid. Not sure PA is prepared to break the bank for him, with both Petey and Hronek rises as well as Hogs. 
If Joshua signs any deal for $3M it will be like winning the lottery just now. 
career year, so he has to get a good deal now to secure his future. 
With us getting havinh $5M cap penalty coming up in a year, plan/contracts will have to be made to deal with that. 
Hope he stays, want him to stay, but not sure they'll have the money, he may be offered elsewhere. 

[PeteyBOI]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Odd game where they dominate and thinking "it's still third line production" ... take issue with that (although agree that's what it should look like...just rarely does anymore). 

 

That is very 80's to early 90's.   As in it's been a while since we've seen a 3rd line produce like they are doing.    They are already miles ahead of the WCE era and Sedin era.    Who scored more than say 30 points?   Did Cooke do it once?   Brad May?  Maholtra?  Torres?   Here is our pres trophy team.     People still talk about that like it was top end.    Hilarious considering in 92-93 Nedved scored 38 goals mostly as a 3rd line center.     We've already got 11 ten goal scorers.   Recent Canuck teams.   Horvat was a solid second line center.   Scoring how many even strength goals a season?   Think that's a bit pre-mature. 

 

A full season, I count 9 below.

this stats sheet reminds me how few goal we had 10-12 years ago

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

5. Defense: PA has to be thinking about his existing d-men will stand up to CUP play. IMHO, again last night, Juulson outplayed Meyers. Meyers seems to get caught up in the game and fails to process well. My example would be the last minute of the 2nd. He commits high in the ozone and got caught. From a game perspective that should never have happened. I thought the 1st Hawks goal was largely on him as well. You cannot watch Meyers skate the length of the ice without admiring his stride. If he dials his game back he tends to do better. I think Tocchet has to play Juulson at 18 - 20 minutes for a stretch of games to see how he does. It appears to me and has for awhile that the Canucks already have their 2RD. 

Was anout to say the same... what a great example of confidence and coaches trust/help. 
Juulsen is so secure on the backend that he is a certain starter next year. 
won't cost a Million, and while Myers 'may' be better at skating the puck out, Juulsen is the far more assure defender. He had a few really good outlet passes, and he rately serves up pizzas down the middle. 
Brilliant play by him. 

[Johnny]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Odd game where they dominate and thinking "it's still third line production" ... take issue with that (although agree that's what it should look like...just rarely does anymore). 

 

That is very 80's to early 90's.   As in it's been a while since we've seen a 3rd line produce like they are doing.    They are already miles ahead of the WCE era and Sedin era.    Who scored more than say 30 points?   Did Cooke do it once?   Brad May?  Maholtra?  Torres?   Here is our pres trophy team.     People still talk about that like it was top end.    Hilarious considering in 92-93 Nedved scored 38 goals mostly as a 3rd line center.     We've already got 11 ten goal scorers.   Recent Canuck teams.   Horvat was a solid second line center.   Scoring how many even strength goals a season?   Think that's a bit pre-mature. 

 

A full season, I count 9 below.

Because he has a 3 point game hes better than a third liner?

 

i just dont see that both blueger and joshua keep this pace up for years

 

and if they were part of the top 6 with this production i would be concerend hence third line (over achieving third line)

 

mikheyev is right there in production with garland joshua and blueger and is the new whipping boy for many because top 6 and contract

 

so as soon as joshua and blueger get paid 3.5-4.5 they will become the whipping boys

 

you also have to factor in that they are feasting on their matchups due to the other teams focusing on the top 6 so much.

 

as a closing

first line production expected

65+
second line expected

45-65

third line expected

25-45

fourth

10-25

 

my opinion of course. But it seems like our players are on the top side of these numbers

[OldFaithfulcap]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Odd game where they dominate and thinking "it's still third line production" ... take issue with that (although agree that's what it should look like...just rarely does anymore). 

 

That is very 80's to early 90's.   As in it's been a while since we've seen a 3rd line produce like they are doing.    They are already miles ahead of the WCE era and Sedin era.    Who scored more than say 30 points?   Did Cooke do it once?   Brad May?  Maholtra?  Torres?   Here is our pres trophy team.     People still talk about that like it was top end.    Hilarious considering in 92-93 Nedved scored 38 goals mostly as a 3rd line center.     We've already got 11 ten goal scorers.   Recent Canuck teams.   Horvat was a solid second line center.   Scoring how many even strength goals a season?   Think that's a bit pre-mature. 

 

A full season, I count 9 below.   Here we have Raymond as a top six scoring 39.   3 bottom six/middle six guys flirting with 30.   Seriously, the last time we had a third line more productive, was the early 90's.   Dixon Ward,  Nedved/Craven.   Or was it Momesso, Ronning, Courtnall.   Just like today, hard to say which line is better 5 x 5.     You can take a horse to water and all that.   40 EV points is elite  for a 3rd line.   Has been for 2.5 decades now. 

 

I watched that team emerge, and we look deeper in the forwards now. That defence had better scoring, but our guys are getting better on their own end. Exciting stuff

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, PeteyBOI said:

this stats sheet reminds me how few goal we had 10-12 years ago

I hated the dead puck era and most of the 2000's compared to what I grew up watching.   A 5-4 game and the ebb and flow of it, was so much better then watching a 2-1 snore fest.

 

So glad to watch save percentage's drop back to close to around .900 average (.904 last year),  the leagues talent to finally get back to where it should be.    Some trade with the toughness factor, but will take it over that era any day.   

[Rocket-68]

35 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Odd game where they dominate and thinking "it's still third line production" ... take issue with that (although agree that's what it should look like...just rarely does anymore). 

 

That is very 80's to early 90's.   As in it's been a while since we've seen a 3rd line produce like they are doing.    They are already miles ahead of the WCE era and Sedin era.    Who scored more than say 30 points?   Did Cooke do it once?   Brad May?  Maholtra?  Torres?   Here is our pres trophy team.     People still talk about that like it was top end.    Hilarious considering in 92-93 Nedved scored 38 goals mostly as a 3rd line center.     We've already got 11 ten goal scorers.   Recent Canuck teams.   Horvat was a solid second line center.   Scoring how many even strength goals a season?   Think that's a bit pre-mature. 

 

A full season, I count 9 below.

 

If looking at just goal scoring, here is a list of teams that had the most 20-goal scorers on the team in a single season --> https://records.nhl.com/records/team-records/milestone-goals-and-points/most-20-plus-goals-one-season

 

Here are where we are at today

 

An argument could be made that Hogz, Suter, Huggy Bear, EL, Angry Elf and Joshua Tree (I missed him earlier DOH!) could all hit 20 by end of the year which would put the team at 9 players with 20 or more goals in a single season. Doing so would put this team above some Stanley Cup winning teams in the 70's and 80's when goals were more plentiful - i..e., 1982 Islanders, 1984 Oilers, 1989 Flames, 1977 Canadiens. Incidentally, the 1980 - 1981 Canuck had 8 20+ goal scorers on that team as did the 84-85 Canucks.

 

Does the above mean we will win the Cup this year, while I hope so absolutely not. It does bode well for this team to have such balanced scoring to be in the ball park of some very good teams in the past and especially given the high-scoring days of the 70's and 80's - hello Edmonton and Montreal. 

 

The 2010 - 2011 was a good Canucks team but didn't come close to even having this conversation. What does this all mean, well nothing, other than this team could do something special and has the arrows in the quiver to do so - that is before Flying Phil the Hot-Dog Thrill joins the team plus anything else PA / JR have up their collective sleeves.

I for one am placing the over/under at 20+ goal scorers this season at 7 and enjoying the ride ........ all the way to a Stanley Cup.

 

Edited February 14 by Rocket-68

[Ghostsof1915]

I don't care if the team gets #1 in the regular season. I just want to make the playoffs. It's going to be a tough road no matter what. I'd actually rather ease off the throttle a little bit, so that we are healthy and ready to to rock in the playoffs.

[PeteyBOI]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I hated the dead puck era and most of the 2000's compared to what I grew up watching.   A 5-4 game and the ebb and flow of it, was so much better then watching a 2-1 snore fest.

 

So glad to watch save percentage's drop back to close to around .900 average (.904 last year),  the leagues talent to finally get back to where it should be.    Some trade with the toughness factor, but will take it over that era any day.   

hey only took 4 years but finally we are agreeing with somethings... my first playoffs I watched was Patrick Roy vs gretzky... I was so angry that Roy won its funny its been 31 years since a Canadian team has won that cup, i still remember the look of defeat on Gretzkys face...

 

there was 20 years of poop and I didnt watch much, also helped I was working too...

 

Last nights scores is relative to our conversation

[coho8888]

17 minutes ago, spook007 said:

That is my point. 
Hogs maybe a short term contract, as he is still raw, but Joshua is 27 and looking to be paid. Not sure PA is prepared to break the bank for him, with both Petey and Hronek rises as well as Hogs. 
If Joshua signs any deal for $3M it will be like winning the lottery just now. 
career year, so he has to get a good deal now to secure his future. 
With us getting havinh $5M cap penalty coming up in a year, plan/contracts will have to be made to deal with that. 
Hope he stays, want him to stay, but not sure they'll have the money, he may be offered elsewhere. 

im not too worried cause I trust in this mgmt team to continue with their ace pro scouting and identify players to target either through minor trades or FA signings.  Cole, Soucy Suter, and Bluger were targeted and are having solid years. Juulsen and Joshua are having career years.  It’s not by accident.  Combination of good scouting and solid development by our coaching staff has put us where we are now.  The core has not changed much over the prior years.  The big difference is the coaching structure and the support players we have assembled.  This team will look different next year no doubt.  It may even be better.

[CanuckMan]

24 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Because he has a 3 point game hes better than a third liner?

 

i just dont see that both blueger and joshua keep this pace up for years

 

and if they were part of the top 6 with this production i would be concerend hence third line (over achieving third line)

 

mikheyev is right there in production with garland joshua and blueger and is the new whipping boy for many because top 6 and contract

 

so as soon as joshua and blueger get paid 3.5-4.5 they will become the whipping boys

 

you also have to factor in that they are feasting on their matchups due to the other teams focusing on the top 6 so much.

 

as a closing

first line production expected

65+
second line expected

45-65

third line expected

25-45

fourth

10-25

 

my opinion of course. But it seems like our players are on the top side of these numbers

With Joshua you get other attributes like strong play along the boards, hits, and physicality. Joshua is 2nd in the league in hits. Even if he wasn’t scoring that’s the kind of sandpaper we need on our third and fourth lines.

[CanuckMan]

9 hours ago, Bardown said:

Joshua is 27, never had a big pay day. The way you keep him is with term. He's a guy who will be key for us given his size and hands, every year in our window.

 

3 mil x 7 years takes him to 35 (maybe hurts you in the last year, but he is also very solid defensively, he'll age better then Maroon for example). He's get 21 mil and his family is taken care of for life. It would be pretty hard for him to say no to that. He's not getting term and much more than that on the open market for one year of good play.

7 years is just too much. Joshua plays a physical game you never know injuries can happen. I don’t see any team out there giving him more than 3 or 4 years.

[Johnny]

11 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

With Joshua you get other attributes like strong play along the boards, hits, and physicality. Joshua is 2nd in the league in hits. Even if he wasn’t scoring that’s the kind of sandpaper we need on our third and fourth lines.

Dont get me wrong

joshua is playing really well

 

just not well enough or with the history of solid play to screw any sort of cap structure for the next few years

 

 

Paying because of 1 good season at 27 isnt a a good way to build a roster

[NoCupSyndrome]

EP Miller Boeser

Garland Lindholm DJ

 

A viable top six next year?

[stawns]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

CAR went from a terrible season to winning a cup.   We didn't win with that team.   So there is hope.   It was their biggest jump in points in club history too (CAR).     Yes, usually you need playoff experience.   This teams best hope is that they can draw on their bubble run, and gain home ice advantage.    100% if they get through the first round, they will have to play a contender next, and likely all the way through after that.     When we got Luongo we got hope for the future.    Naslund, Mitchell, Linden.   Those teams were very different year to year.     Allvin and JR and Tochett are going for it.    Right now.    Back in 2007, all we really had, was elite goaltending, and a core change.   WCE era was ending.   And the Sedins were taking the training wheels off.    QHs is this teams Luongo.   So that timeline with that matches, four years including this one.   

 

 

Certainly Cinderella runs do happen, just rarely, especially in the cap era.  And when they do it's usually followed by a long run of mediocrity

[DelPiLeo]

Nice to hear RT mentioned Juulsen in the interview after the game, he was playing really good recently and deserved some credits.

[JayDangles]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

Anyone still waiting for this team to fall can get off at the next stop.

 

Sure, they'll lose games and even have stinkers at times....happens. But this year, they've proven that they can hang with the big boys and even stand above them in the overall picture. They have a good mix now....skill, speed, toughness (will have to show that side in the playoffs), goaltending, secondary scoring (our thirst line in particular), and coaching that is keeping it all intact. Even when we don't get calls they don't unravel.

 

It's just a great year overall. And anyone still looking to gripe and moan is missing out on some quality time.

I totally admit that towards the end of November when the team started down the win one lose one path I was very nervous that the fellas were losing their steam, and that the hot start was just that... a hot start. Started getting some PTSD.

100% to their credit, they rallied hard and by the Christmas break they put that tough 2.5 weeks behind them and never looked back.

 

They have been the top team in the league since before Christmas. Canucks have maintained that top spot even though they've played the most road games, had the most travel, lost a top 4 D AND are facing opponents who are elevating their games because they are playing against the best.

 

I completely agree. If folks aren't all in by now, then now's the time to get out!

 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I don't care if the team gets #1 in the regular season. I just want to make the playoffs. It's going to be a tough road no matter what. I'd actually rather ease off the throttle a little bit, so that we are healthy and ready to to rock in the playoffs.

 

I don't care about #1 OA, but #1 in the Pacific, and avoiding Edm or Vegas in the first round would be nice

[JayDangles]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I don't care about #1 OA, but #1 in the Pacific, and avoiding Edm or Vegas in the first round would be nice

This...

Would rather wait a round or two before playing one of these teams. Let them get a little bruised and battered first.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

CAR went from a terrible season to winning a cup.   We didn't win with that team.   So there is hope.   It was their biggest jump in points in club history too (CAR).     Yes, usually you need playoff experience.   This teams best hope is that they can draw on their bubble run, and gain home ice advantage.    100% if they get through the first round, they will have to play a contender next, and likely all the way through after that.     When we got Luongo we got hope for the future.    Naslund, Mitchell, Linden.   Those teams were very different year to year.     Allvin and JR and Tochett are going for it.    Right now.    Back in 2007, all we really had, was elite goaltending, and a core change.   WCE era was ending.   And the Sedins were taking the training wheels off.    QHs is this teams Luongo.   So that timeline with that matches, four years including this one.   

 

Key to Carolina's win was one of their forwards (I forgot the guys name) taking out the Habs Captain & basically MVP for them in their playoff series with a crosscheck to his eye.  No suspension (big surprise; if it was  Canuck he made that cheapshot hit, he'd be put in prison).

 

edit:  I *think* it was Justin Williams?

[stawns]

1 minute ago, JayDangles said:

This...

Would rather wait a round or two before playing one of these teams. Let them get a little bruised and battered first.

 And a little easier competition for Van to (hopefully) get a little confidence.

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

Hogs will eventually be paid like a top 6, he is likely taking a 2-3 year deal around 2.5-3 then it will be up in the 5-6 range

 

Joshua will be getting mac 3.25. While him and the rest of his line has been great, their production is still third line production with the odd game where they dominate. This is also a career year for Daks so that needs to be considered 

 

Blueger is close to putting together a career year but is on pace to have second best. I see him still in the 2.5-3 range depending on term

 

All of these players would get more from other teams, though hogz is an RFA

 

Nice that Suter, Hogs and Juulson are all signed on cheapie deals for next season already.