[PGT] Canucks at Shithawks - 02/13/24

[IBatch]

32 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Certainly Cinderella runs do happen, just rarely, especially in the cap era.  And when they do it's usually followed by a long run of mediocrity

Of the teams who made it to the final...whom would you consider Cinderalla?   Maybe NSH.   MTL for sure.   St. Louis won a cup.   The rest of them were good teams before.    Don't get many shots at this.   See a four year window, then we are likely mediocre for awhile.    Quite a few regular playoff teams like St. Louis, just never get a shot.    32 teams.    Can see why that the strategy needs to be both striking the iron when it's hot, and giving the team a wide window.    This team, is hot so keep pounding away.   Next year and the remainder of QHs current deal, seems like a fair window for them. 

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

5. Defense: PA has to be thinking about his existing d-men will stand up to CUP play. IMHO, again last night, Juulson outplayed Meyers. Meyers seems to get caught up in the game and fails to process well. My example would be the last minute of the 2nd. He commits high in the ozone and got caught. From a game perspective that should never have happened. I thought the 1st Hawks goal was largely on him as well. You cannot watch Meyers skate the length of the ice without admiring his stride. If he dials his game back he tends to do better. I think Tocchet has to play Juulson at 18 - 20 minutes for a stretch of games to see how he does. It appears to me and has for awhile that the Canucks already have their 2RD. 

Juulsen has made a lot of progress this year.  I did not think that guys in their mid-20s could make the amount of progress that Juulsen has this year but I obviously underestimated what good developmental coaching can do. Getting good developmental coaches is another area were JR gets an "A" and Benning gets an "F".

 

Myers' biggest weakness is always going to be his mental game. He gets flustered, panics, and does stupid things. But he does have good points and I thought he was pretty good last night.  We do not have a high quality 2nd pairing, but they are "ok". The D overall is good with maybe the best pairing in the league at #1 to go with a good 3rd pairing and an ok second pairing.

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

This...

Would rather wait a round or two before playing one of these teams. Let them get a little bruised and battered first.

Vancouver has Edmonton's number. They clearly know their weaknesses and how to exploit them. 

[JayDangles]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Vancouver has Edmonton's number. They clearly know their weaknesses and how to exploit them. 

Possibly. They definitely did at the start of the season. But Edmonton is clearly a much different team than they were. So are the Canucks, but I wouldn't want to face them in the first round. They have enough skill to put up a good fight for at least 1 series.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Johnny said:

Because he has a 3 point game hes better than a third liner?

 

i just dont see that both blueger and joshua keep this pace up for years

 

and if they were part of the top 6 with this production i would be concerend hence third line (over achieving third line)

 

mikheyev is right there in production with garland joshua and blueger and is the new whipping boy for many because top 6 and contract

 

so as soon as joshua and blueger get paid 3.5-4.5 they will become the whipping boys

 

you also have to factor in that they are feasting on their matchups due to the other teams focusing on the top 6 so much.

 

as a closing

first line production expected

65+
second line expected

45-65

third line expected

25-45

fourth

10-25

 

my opinion of course. But it seems like our players are on the top side of these numbers

Hmmm... Garland scoring at same rate as Joshua, and he is (temporary) off the hate list with just about everyone ( doesn't mean the don't see him traded). 
Joshua brings an added element to the table, so I doubt folks who turn on him, should he make say $4M

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Possibly. They definitely did at the start of the season. But Edmonton is clearly a much different team than they were. So are the Canucks, but I wouldn't want to face them in the first round. They have enough skill to put up a good fight for at least 1 series.

They certainly have skill in McDavid and Drysaddle but once you get past the 1st/2nd line, there's a huge drop off in skill and ability. The defense is playing better and with more structure but will fold like a cheap suit once the games get more physical and chippy. As will the goaltending. 

 

They are pretty much the same team, roster wise, and are benefitting from a coaching bump. Once the playoffs start, they'll fall back down to earth.

Edited February 14 by PhillipBlunt

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Johnny said:

Because he has a 3 point game hes better than a third liner?

 

i just dont see that both blueger and joshua keep this pace up for years

 

and if they were part of the top 6 with this production i would be concerend hence third line (over achieving third line)

 

mikheyev is right there in production with garland joshua and blueger and is the new whipping boy for many because top 6 and contract

 

so as soon as joshua and blueger get paid 3.5-4.5 they will become the whipping boys

 

you also have to factor in that they are feasting on their matchups due to the other teams focusing on the top 6 so much.

 

as a closing

first line production expected

65+
second line expected

45-65

third line expected

25-45

fourth

10-25

 

my opinion of course. But it seems like our players are on the top side of these numbers

Hmmm... Garland scoring at same rate as Joshua, and he is (temporary) off the hate list with just about everyone ( doesn't mean the don't see him traded). 
Joshua brings an added element to the table, so I doubt folks who turn on him, should he make say $4M

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

3 hours ago, -dlc- said:

Anyone still waiting for this team to fall can get off at the next stop.

 

Sure, they'll lose games and even have stinkers at times....happens. But this year, they've proven that they can hang with the big boys and even stand above them in the overall picture. They have a good mix now....skill, speed, toughness (will have to show that side in the playoffs), goaltending, secondary scoring (our thirst line in particular), and coaching that is keeping it all intact. Even when we don't get calls they don't unravel.

 

It's just a great year overall. And anyone still looking to gripe and moan is missing out on some quality time.

Nothing to do with what you said, but here's a Valentine's Day card, lol

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

5 hours ago, spook007 said:

Nahhhhh @luckylager is right... suck it, Hawks... And the low life organisation....

[Reznor]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually we are first in the league and by four points on the club that’s second. Your comments are bustaroo bonsai craperolla 

 

Thanks for your opinion. Just because we're #1 (and I'm very happy about that), doesn't mean the team can't use improvements to help get it through a grueling playoffs.

[Reznor]

3 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Sorry if it seems like I'm picking on your post, but at the end of the day, we need to accept that we're spoiled and that this team is so elite that they've altered our reality of what expectations should be from a team. 

All good. We post publicly to garner interaction and opinions. 

Yes, we are spoiled, and we're all pretty stoked that our team is finally good again. All I'm saying is that lack of consistency can lose a playoff series and that I hope they find it come playoff time.

I am in no way putting down the team itself, as the #1 position pretty much speaks for itself.  Hell, the Canucks have the best goal differential in the league and it isn't even close; clearly we're doing something right. It doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

[Rocket-68]

49 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Key to Carolina's win was one of their forwards (I forgot the guys name) taking out the Habs Captain & basically MVP for them in their playoff series with a crosscheck to his eye.  No suspension (big surprise; if it was  Canuck he made that cheapshot hit, he'd be put in prison).

 

edit:  I *think* it was Justin Williams?

 

That is why you need guys like Big Zeke, Joshua (to a lesser extent) and a yet to be added 6'-4" 245 lbs power forward (more power than forward) that will keep the other teams honest. Big Zeke could possibly take out a player with just a clean hit. I recall a game the Canucks had against the 'Yotes where Martin Hanzal took out three Canucks in about 5 minutes including one of the Sedins (Daniel if memory serves me correctly). All were clean hits, he just hit like a freight train.

[Johnny]

21 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Hmmm... Garland scoring at same rate as Joshua, and he is (temporary) off the hate list with just about everyone ( doesn't mean the don't see him traded). 
Joshua brings an added element to the table, so I doubt folks who turn on him, should he make say $4M

See even though Garland is producing at the moment his cap hit is about a million too high

 

the canucks have a history of over paying bottom six forwards and 5-7 dmen. This needs to end, over paid players dont win and teams with over paid bottom six player millions in dead cap certainly aren’t crowding the playoffs

 

 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

Hahaha  

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Rocket-68 said:

 

That is why you need guys like Big Zeke, Joshua (to a lesser extent) and a yet to be added 6'-4" 245 lbs power forward (more power than forward) that will keep the other teams honest. Big Zeke could possibly take out a player with just a clean hit. I recall a game the Canucks had against the 'Yotes where Martin Hanzal took out three Canucks in about 5 minutes including one of the Sedins (Daniel if memory serves me correctly). All were clean hits, he just hit like a freight train.

Hanzal was a dirty player and a coward. He injured Sedin, Santorelli, and Booth all with cross checks. The guy was a piece of shit.

 

VIDEO: Martin Hanzal injures three Canucks players in third period - CBSSports.com

 

When he was approached in the next game by either Tom Sestito or Byron Bitz and meekly skated away. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

12 minutes ago, Reznor said:

All good. We post publicly to garner interaction and opinions. 

Yes, we are spoiled, and we're all pretty stoked that our team is finally good again. All I'm saying is that lack of consistency can lose a playoff series and that I hope they find it come playoff time.

I am in no way putting down the team itself, as the #1 position pretty much speaks for itself.  Hell, the Canucks have the best goal differential in the league and it isn't even close; clearly we're doing something right. It doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

There isn't a team in the league that will beat this team 4 out of 7. 

[EternalCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Johnny said:

See even though Garland is producing at the moment his cap hit is about a million too high

 

the canucks have a history of over paying bottom six forwards and 5-7 dmen. This needs to end, over paid players dont win and teams with over paid bottom six player millions in dead cap certainly aren’t crowding the playoffs

 

 

I do think the Canucks will have revisit the possibility of a Garland trade this summer. His value may be at an all-time high, especially if he has a strong showing in the playoffs. There are a lot of things to like about Garland's game, especially his ability to drive a line, but unfortunately that ability is being paid at a premium price (particularly within the Canucks' cap structure). It's too bad Garland hasn't been able to gel in the top-6 otherwise I don't think this would be an issue.

 

As much as I would love for the Canucks to be able to keep the 3rd line together, I don't see how it will be possible even with the clearing of Kuzmenko's cap hit next year. The OEL dead cap does hurt in this regard, but I agree that overall the team will need to avoid overpaying bottom 6 forwards. There will need to be some balance between rewarding/retaining quality bottom 6 players while also bringing in new blood which would include prospects.

 

Notwithstanding the above, I also think there is a world where the Canucks retain Garland as a play driver for the third line while moving out cap elsewhere such as with Mikheyev. The strength of the 3rd line this season has been a huge factor in the Canucks' success. I actually like Mikheyev and I suspect he's still recovering from his surgery, but the Canucks can't have two players each taking up nearly $5M AAV who aren't able to reliably play in the top 6. Even though Mikheyev PKs while Garland doesn't, I wonder if management may ultimately consider Mikheyev more replaceable than Garland or even what Dakota Joshua has developed into.

 

It will certainly be an interesting off season.

[Rocket-68]

11 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Hanzal was a dirty player and a coward. He injured Sedin, Santorelli, and Booth all with cross checks. The guy was a piece of shit.

 

VIDEO: Martin Hanzal injures three Canucks players in third period - CBSSports.com

 

When he was approached in the next game by either Tom Sestito or Byron Bitz and meekly skated away. 

 

Agreed, I hated him that game. Still can't deny you would rather have a guy that size on your 4th line than play against him. Haven't watched your video but I recall he wasn't penalized on any of the hits / cross checks. Correct me if I am wrong.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Rocket-68 said:

 

Agreed, I hated him that game. Still can't deny you would rather have a guy that size on your 4th line than play against him.

He had the size, but not the balls to back it up, as he turned away from answering the bell. Would rather have a big player who's honorable than a coward. 

1 minute ago, Rocket-68 said:

Haven't watched your video but I recall he wasn't penalized on any of the hits / cross checks. Correct me if I am wrong.

Watch the video. He wasn't given a penalty even though all three were prime examples of infractions that should have been and could have been suspension worthy. Especially the one on Booth. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

17 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Hanzal was a dirty player and a coward. He injured Sedin, Santorelli, and Booth all with cross checks. The guy was a piece of shit.

 

VIDEO: Martin Hanzal injures three Canucks players in third period - CBSSports.com

 

When he was approached in the next game by either Tom Sestito or Byron Bitz and meekly skated away. 

Not just against Canucks players.  He's one of the guys that flew under the radar (cheapshot artist) probably because he played for the Yotes.

 

 

 

 

Karma for Hanzal in that clip.

 

 

Edited February 14 by NewbieCanuckFan

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Not just against Canucks players.  He's one of the guys that flew under the radar (cheapshot artist) probably because he played for the Yotes.

 

 

 

 

Karma for Hanzal in that clip.

 

 

That was fun to watch Boll beat that feckless turd. Thank you.

[Barn Burner]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

Dont get me wrong

joshua is playing really well

 

just not well enough or with the history of solid play to screw any sort of cap structure for the next few years

 

 

Paying because of 1 good season at 27 isnt a a good way to build a roster

I agree. And I'm not knocking the guy, he's been playing excellent and it looks like he's taken a step in the right direction. 

 

But, people need to remember it is his contract year. 

 

He's playing for his next paycheck. 

 

 

[The Duke]

39 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I do think the Canucks will have revisit the possibility of a Garland trade this summer. His value may be at an all-time high, especially if he has a strong showing in the playoffs. There are a lot of things to like about Garland's game, especially his ability to drive a line, but unfortunately that ability is being paid at a premium price (particularly within the Canucks' cap structure). It's too bad Garland hasn't been able to gel in the top-6 otherwise I don't think this would be an issue.

 

As much as I would love for the Canucks to be able to keep the 3rd line together, I don't see how it will be possible even with the clearing of Kuzmenko's cap hit next year. The OEL dead cap does hurt in this regard, but I agree that overall the team will need to avoid overpaying bottom 6 forwards. There will need to be some balance between rewarding/retaining quality bottom 6 players while also bringing in new blood which would include prospects.

 

Notwithstanding the above, I also think there is a world where the Canucks retain Garland as a play driver for the third line while moving out cap elsewhere such as with Mikheyev. The strength of the 3rd line this season has been a huge factor in the Canucks' success. I actually like Mikheyev and I suspect he's still recovering from his surgery, but the Canucks can't have two players each taking up nearly $5M AAV who aren't able to reliably play in the top 6. Even though Mikheyev PKs while Garland doesn't, I wonder if management may ultimately consider Mikheyev more replaceable than Garland or even what Dakota Joshua has developed into.

 

It will certainly be an interesting off season.

I agree it’ll be next to impossible keeping that 3rd together.  However, we do have Suter who is a quality 3C if we can’t afford to bring back Bleuger. It’s Joshua that is likely gone and difficult to replace (Podkolzin?)

[spook007]

3 hours ago, coho8888 said:

im not too worried cause I trust in this mgmt team to continue with their ace pro scouting and identify players to target either through minor trades or FA signings.  Cole, Soucy Suter, and Bluger were targeted and are having solid years. Juulsen and Joshua are having career years.  It’s not by accident.  Combination of good scouting and solid development by our coaching staff has put us where we are now.  The core has not changed much over the prior years.  The big difference is the coaching structure and the support players we have assembled.  This team will look different next year no doubt.  It may even be better.

Spot on Coaching and the ability to pick players on cheap contracts able to do the business... 

This so far from what we are used to... best Management team (short sample size) I can remember. 
Their ability to act instantly, if somethings doesn't work is also commendable. 
Not waiting for players to maybe regain form. Hard bargains... 

Allvin is top notch and a cert for GM of the year, unless the team totally implodes...

The turnaround has been remarkable. 

[RomanPer]

35 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

He had the size, but not the balls to back it up, as he turned away from answering the bell. Would rather have a big player who's honorable than a coward. 

Watch the video. He wasn't given a penalty even though all three were prime examples of infractions that should have been and could have been suspension worthy. Especially the one on Booth. 

 

Sorry, small correction - he was given double minor on Booth cross check. And then Department of not Canucks Player Safety gave him just $5,000 fine for all these shenanigans...