(Discussion) Filip Hronek

[EternalCanuckFan]

I have been wondering how the Canucks could clear cap space and considered that the idea of trading Filip Hronek this summer has not been raised much. Maybe it seems crazy to do so given the strength of the Hughes-Hronek pairing, but Hronek is not only a RFA this summer, he will have arbitration rights too, and with his production and usage, who knows what his AAV is ultimately going to be.

 

Top RHD seem to fetch a premium price so notwithstanding Hronek's usefulness to the Canucks this season, the Canucks could reallocate a significant amount of cap space by moving on from him and could bring in more assets.

 

With the Canucks being linked to PHI and Ristolainen, I wonder if Ristolainen is being seen less as a TDL move and more as a possible RHD acquisition if PHI has interest in acquiring Hronek this summer. They don't have much cap space this summer but basically all their forwards are under contract next season leaving a few holes to plug on D, and they're way more competitive now than had been expected.

 

Although Ristolainen is not nearly the same caliber RHD as Hronek, acquiring him would give the Canucks cap certainty for several seasons, and possibly a RHD reclamation project who might have more to give (after having cleaned up his defensive game). I don't think the Canucks would only want Ristolainen back in the deal considering his numbers are a far cry from Hronek's, so I assume a 2024 or 2025 1st and some other pieces would likely be needed. This might leave room for the Canucks to sign Tanev and other serviceable dmen who may be more affordable this summer as well.

 

Aside from PHI, I would imagine Hronek could draw a lot of interest from other teams so I'm curious what other ideas there might be for suitors for Hronek and the potential returns.

[Goose]

Contract negotiations w PH will be super interesting.  I do wonder if he becomes too pricey they move him out and bring Chris Tanev in who would be a more than capable partner for QH

Edited February 14 by AngryGoose
spellllling

[Bobby James]

Hronek to Risto would be a huge downgrade on a position we already need. 

 

But if Hronek wants 7.5+ with term then he might be pricing himself out of Van's range anyway. If they can move him for someone like Risto (retained) who will come in as a #5 guy plus a higher draft pick or a prospect then maybe it could work. We'd definitely need to sign someone like Tanev as well in the offseason. 

 

I'm hoping we can work out a deal with Hronek at something around 6.5 over 7/8 years. 

[Goose]

Also, Rick Dhaliwal mentioned today when he talked to (presumably) someone w the Canucks that there was no truth to the Canucks having interest in RR.  Actually RD was show down pretty hard when he asked about it.

[Coconuts]

Hard to see them moving on from him so quickly after acquiring him, particularly given he plays with Hughes. Ideally he'd play on the second pairing and we'd split offense from the D up, but we'll see what happens. 

 

Some around here argue he's a 2D, he'll likely get paid as such. Could see him earning 7.5-8.5 long-term. That'd take him to about 35. Longer term might bring the cap hit down.

 

Probably on the higher end if the Canucks want to opt for less term, say 4-6 years or so. 

Edited February 15 by Coconuts

[EternalCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, AngryGoose said:

Also, Rick Dhaliwal mentioned today when he talked to (presumably) someone w the Canucks that there was no truth to the Canucks having interest in RR.  Actually RD was show down pretty hard when he asked about it.

Missed that. Thanks for the info!

[TUSK v2.0]

10 minutes ago, AngryGoose said:

Also, Rick Dhaliwal mentioned today when he talked to (presumably) someone w the Canucks that there was no truth to the Canucks having interest in RR.  Actually RD was show down pretty hard when he asked about it.

yes, because of CAP and how risto would fit in the Cap. If we give up Heronek for Risto with rentention, We get a player we can fix in our system and dont have the RFA arbirtration to worry about while Hughes just jacked up all his stats

[TUSK v2.0]

28 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

Hronek to Risto would be a huge downgrade on a position we already need. 

 

But if Hronek wants 7.5+ with term then he might be pricing himself out of Van's range anyway. If they can move him for someone like Risto (retained) who will come in as a #5 guy plus a higher draft pick or a prospect then maybe it could work. We'd definitely need to sign someone like Tanev as well in the offseason. 

 

I'm hoping we can work out a deal with Hronek at something around 6.5 over 7/8 years. 

I agree its a downgrade, but really, is Hronek that good? He is when he is with Hughes. He is an RFA and can get arbitration.

With the numbers Hughes has given him... seems like a perfect pump & dump.

The other team will be drooling and willing to retaiin maybe even 50.

Plus maybe some picks, prospect?

 

I have NO DOUBT that risto could be trained in our system, by our coaches, and be even better than Hronek in 2 months

 

Oh, that didnt age well, he is out a month. But still, his contract 5and a half with retention for Hronek in summer would be sweet.

Edited February 15 by VintageActualCanuckfan
Risto out for surgery

[-AJ-]

Personally, I still feel our forward group is better than our D group and I'd sooner sacrifice our great bottom six to keep Hronek than the other way around.

[Iron Fist]

If we trade Hronek, then we're going to be in the market again for the same type of player. Going to have to pay players, 

Edited February 15 by Iron Fist

[EternalCanuckFan]

8 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Personally, I still feel our forward group is better than our D group and I'd sooner sacrifice our great bottom six to keep Hronek than the other way around.

I would love for the Canucks to keep Hronek too but I do wonder if the arbitration right gives them pause if Hronek elects to go that route.

 

If Hronek could be signed between $6M-$7M, then that could well be worth it to have a RHD that has been proven to work in the Canucks' roster and system. I think the Canucks could probably make it work for him in the $7M-$7.5M range, but obviously at the cost of cap allocation to other parts of the line-up (including additional D depth).

 

I personally doubt Hronek will sign in that range given his age and the fact that any long term deal will eat into his prime UFA years. He's also having a career season, so there may be a question of whether the time for him to sign his huge contract is now rather than bet for a better contract not only on himself but against father time and injury.

 

Is the proven ability of Hronek worth it at $7M-$8M+? Or can the D core be supplemented by bringing in lesser dmen (and less proven for the Canucks' system) but who may collectively elevate the D core's ability?

 

I suspect significant changes to the bottom 6 will likely happen regardless of what happens to Hronek, although the possibility of retaining more of them increases if the Canucks don't allocate significant cap space to him.

 

I guess another discussion point I have would be whether Hronek could fetch a top RHD prospect who is almost NHL ready? For example, what if NJD believes that they want to go all in next season and would be willing to give up Nemec? I'm not saying this is likely to happen, but if Hronek could fetch that kind of return for a team that is willing to fit him into their cap structure, then maybe a Hronek trade may well be a good option this off season.

 

At the end of the day, I think this offseason presents all kind of possibilities. Hopefully those will be possibilities that arise after a Stanley Cup win.

[EternalCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

If we trade Hronek, then we're going to be in the market again for the same type of player. Going to have to pay players, 

Definitely a fair point, though I wonder if management feels like they could manage an interim period with lesser RHD before Willander makes the jump. Obviously places a huge expectation on Willander, but just spitballing.

 

Something else I didn't consider initially is that if the cap continues to rise with reasonably large increases, then Hronek at $7M-$8M may not be all that bad within the overall cap structure.

 

Again, not advocating for a Hronek trade but his RFA and arbitration status do make me wonder if this is something that could reasonably be on the table this summer.

[Crabcakes]

The Canucks were looking for a top 4 RHD for a decade.  The way Allvin operates, I can't imagine him giving up what he did (1st, 2nd with a 4th coming back) without a very good idea how he was going to be able to re-sign Hronek.  He sure isn't like Benning flying by the seat of his pants.  

[TUSK v2.0]

6 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

If we trade Hronek, then we're going to be in the market again for the same type of player. Going to have to pay players, 

Are you not seeing a pattern though?

Bear plays with Hughes one season, then is worth double his contract.

Hronek plays with Hughes one season, now a RFA and worth double his contract.

Instead of training guys and pumping up thier stats on UFA and RFA......

We need to trade Hronek at his max value NOW for someone underperforming and underCoached with a long Term cheap contract..... Should be lots of choices come TDL with so many teams not making the cut.

[Iron Fist]

1 minute ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

Definitely a fair point, though I wonder if management feels like they could manage an interim period with lesser RHD before Willander makes the jump. Obviously places a huge expectation on Willander, but just spitballing.

 

Something else I didn't consider initially is that if the cap continues to rise with reasonably large increases, then Hronek at $7M-$8M may not be all that bad within the overall cap structure.

 

Again, not advocating for a Hronek trade but his RFA and arbitration status do make me wonder if this is something that could reasonably be on the table this summer.

If Willander does another season in college and signs after that. 3 years ELC, then that's 4 seasons until we have to worry about his cap, by then th OEL buyout cap will be 2 million.  NHL revenue for the past year was 6 billion, players had to pay off 100 mil there's still a couple jumps left for the cap to even out and by then the tv rights deals are up for renewal and likely expansion teams revenue and coyotes being able to sell out an arena in a different market.  cap should increase by then

[Iron Fist]

3 minutes ago, VintageActualCanuckfan said:

Are you not seeing a pattern though?

Bear plays with Hughes one season, then is worth double his contract.

Hronek plays with Hughes one season, now a RFA and worth double his contract.

Instead of training guys and pumping up thier stats on UFA and RFA......

We need to trade Hronek at his max value NOW for someone underperforming and underCoached with a long Term cheap contract..... Should be lots of choices come TDL with so many teams not making the cut.

but what is average cap of top defenseman?  i think its around 8 million anyway, were gunna give it to somebody

[TUSK v2.0]

4 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

but what is average cap of top defenseman?  i think its around 8 million anyway, were gunna give it to somebody

Well, Hronek was not a top dman till Hughes was beside him.

Sell the new top Dman for some young guy. You think we could get Luke Hughes? he has a few years left cheap.

.

I think we can just find someone underperforming on a bad team and turn them into a top Dman if there is a long term contract already in place, rather than a rental.

Edited February 15 by VintageActualCanuckfan

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 hour ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I have been wondering how the Canucks could clear cap space and considered that the idea of trading Filip Hronek this summer has not been raised much. Maybe it seems crazy to do so given the strength of the Hughes-Hronek pairing, but Hronek is not only a RFA this summer, he will have arbitration rights too, and with his production and usage, who knows what his AAV is ultimately going to be.

 

Top RHD seem to fetch a premium price so notwithstanding Hronek's usefulness to the Canucks this season, the Canucks could reallocate a significant amount of cap space by moving on from him and could bring in more assets.

 

With the Canucks being linked to PHI and Ristolainen, I wonder if Ristolainen is being seen less as a TDL move and more as a possible RHD acquisition if PHI has interest in acquiring Hronek this summer. They don't have much cap space this summer but basically all their forwards are under contract next season leaving a few holes to plug on D, and they're way more competitive now than had been expected.

 

Although Ristolainen is not nearly the same caliber RHD as Hronek, acquiring him would give the Canucks cap certainty for several seasons, and possibly a RHD reclamation project who might have more to give (after having cleaned up his defensive game). I don't think the Canucks would only want Ristolainen back in the deal considering his numbers are a far cry from Hronek's, so I assume a 2024 or 2025 1st and some other pieces would likely be needed. This might leave room for the Canucks to sign Tanev and other serviceable dmen who may be more affordable this summer as well.

 

Aside from PHI, I would imagine Hronek could draw a lot of interest from other teams so I'm curious what other ideas there might be for suitors for Hronek and the potential returns.

 
No way on earth I downgrade from Hronek to RR despite the cap savings.

[TUSK v2.0]

47 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Personally, I still feel our forward group is better than our D group and I'd sooner sacrifice our great bottom six to keep Hronek than the other way around.

You have a last year mindset on our Defense. Now we have guys sitting out, or waiting in Abby. If we can dump the Hronek cap hit, and put Juuls in his place, Juuls becomes a "top defenseman" this year. and Epic dman.

[TUSK v2.0]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 
No way on earth I downgrade from Hronek to RR despite the cap savings.

You would give up Dak to keep Hronek over some other random D that would look like a million bucks playing with petey? Even Bear looked good with Petey last year.

[Iron Fist]

8 minutes ago, VintageActualCanuckfan said:

Well, Hronek was not a top dman till Hughes was beside him.

Sell the new top Dman for some young guy. You think we could get Luke Hughes? he has a few years left cheap.

.

I think we can just find someone underperforming on a bad team and turn them into a top Dman if there is a long term contract already in place, rather than a rental.

Dante Fabbro or Noah Hanifan.  5 years ago we signed Tyler Myers for 6 million based on untapped potential, he's 33 and his agents looking for $5.5M per season on 4 or 5 yr deal.   with owen power signing for 8 million out of his entry level contract based on potential. not really sure if we can get anything under 7.7-8 million nowadays.  Luke hughes is probably getting the power deal comparable, he's a stud.  

[Iron Fist]

17 minutes ago, VintageActualCanuckfan said:

Well, Hronek was not a top dman till Hughes was beside him.

Sell the new top Dman for some young guy. You think we could get Luke Hughes? he has a few years left cheap.

.

I think we can just find someone underperforming on a bad team and turn them into a top Dman if there is a long term contract already in place, rather than a rental.

Hronek was a top Man that signed a bridge deal in the first year after the pandemic. flat cap contracts don't mean much anymore

[TUSK v2.0]

24 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

The Canucks were looking for a top 4 RHD for a decade.  The way Allvin operates, I can't imagine him giving up what he did (1st, 2nd with a 4th coming back) without a very good idea how he was going to be able to re-sign Hronek.  He sure isn't like Benning flying by the seat of his pants.  

Exactly. I bet he will load up Hronek and then trade him like how we ended up with OEL and Ericksson contracts. The pump and dump.

Hronek actually kinda sucks when he is not on the Hughes pair.

I do like his slapper though... but Juuls and Myers have that too. And Woo. Hope we get to see him but not likely now that BigZ back

[-AJ-]

11 minutes ago, VintageActualCanuckfan said:

You have a last year mindset on our Defense. Now we have guys sitting out, or waiting in Abby. If we can dump the Hronek cap hit, and put Juuls in his place, Juuls becomes a "top defenseman" this year. and Epic dman.

 

Juulsen is a good option, but I think there are two issues:

 

1. The top defensemen in Abby are not likely as good as our top forwards. I have more faith in Bains, Podkolzin, and Dries to play in Vancouver than I do Woo, Wolanin, and McWard.

 

2. I believe we lack a strong #3 quality guy. Cole, Myers, Soucy, and Zadorov are overall a great bottom four, but none of them are #3 guys in my mind. We have a fantastic bottom pairing with guys who are above 5/6 level, but all four guys are at a 4/5 level to me, showing a lack of a good #3 guy. Hronek is a great #2 and if we lose him, we have to rely even more heavily on Hughes as the only high end D.

[TUSK v2.0]

5 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

Dante Fabbro or Noah Hanifan.  5 years ago we signed Tyler Myers for 6 million based on untapped potential, he's 33 and his agents looking for $5.5M per season on 4 or 5 yr deal.   with owen power signing for 8 million out of his entry level contract based on potential. not really sure if we can get anything under 7.7-8 million nowadays.  Luke hughes is probably getting the power deal comparable, he's a stud.  

yeah.... Luke would be a dream. Maybe we could get Luke for Hronek and PDG? Yeah Luke will get a good contract but thats a few years anyway.

My point is I think we have some younger D that would be great if they had Hughes, with Hughes minutes. Juuls would be even better if he had more ice time.