Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said: Points wise Pettersson's probably worth more than Miller. His camp is going to argue that he's outproducing Miller offensively - which is true. But your right in that when he produces also matters. If Petey's producing against lower tier teams, but then is a no show or is invisible against the top tier teams, then yes, he's probably not in the McDavid or even Matthews tier (never said he was). It's weird how it feels like he believes he's up there, when in reality, he's a tier below those guys. I get the feeling that negotiations are going to be really tough even as the team enters into the off-season. I can see management giving him 10.5-11.5 range, but I can't imagine they would be willing to give Pettersson a 12M dollar contract unless he's producing more consistently and not having these swings during the season where he's absolutely invisible and even a detriment to the team when he's on the ice. I think you hit the nail on the head....and I see the bolded area as a concern. When Petey came here, he spoke of wanting to be the best, along the way, it seems he's happy to be a point producer over winner and there is a difference. If you want 12 mil you have to be BOTH, and that means driving play in the hard games. Miller and Hughes have been consistently driving play in the HARD games....Petey disappears. I think he's happy with money and noteriety.... It's interesting how Rutherford and Allvin both said when they got here, this team has no "stars". Miller, Hughes, Demko heard that as "you haven't proven a thing"...I don't think Petey has the same attitude. I also agree, Management is watching these games and seeing the same issues and won't give him "Whatever he wants"...which could lead to some tension. I think his playoff performance is going to be a key driver of his money...and if his play in tough games is any indication, he's def not getting what he thinks he's worth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: Do we know that is Peteys real demand? Just looking at comps....he's putting up numbers in that range. What did Nylander get 11.5 AAV?. Petey plays center so higher value, but Nylander also took term vs Petey apparently wanting a shorter term deal like Matthews so that can offset some. Agents will push for that range so we can assume its what he wants I think. Edited February 21 by Bardown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Again, that's your perception that you're seemingly extrapolating over the fanbase. I don't see people waiting for Pettersson to fail, rather people unhappy with his play as of late, which is within the purview of a fan to have. Seeing as how he's been referred to often as the future of the franchise, is it really odd to think that fans would focus in on him? What's he been paid to do? He's a predominant forward in the league, let alone the team, so the expectation is that he'll score more often that not. He was defensively solid yesterday, but I've seen him have a more lackadaisical approach in some games past. Again, if he's expecting a massive payday, scoring goals is going to be something he'll need to do on a more consistent basis. That's kind of the point. Certainly, his playmaking and defensive play do factor into the overall scope of his capabilities, but he wouldn't be looking at $10M+ a season if he didn't have the reputation of putting up point totals. You view it as absurd, while others are indifferent, and others see Pettersson as a player who's in a slump, and even others view him as being one-dimensional. It takes all kinds to make the world go around. I mean sure, people are free to see Pettersson as a one-dimensional player if they really want. And they'd be objectively wrong in just about every way. He has definitely had more defensive lapses compared to last year, that's for sure. But one-dimensional is beyond a stretch. All I see here is talk about getting rid of Pettersson. "He's not worth $12M" "If he wants the bag so bad he should go to Toronto" "We should trade him for _____" Petey is the future of the Canucks franchise and is being treated like one... everywhere but here. There's a reason this meme gained traction: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just tuned in and haven't read any posts yet. Has anybody else mentioned that it's laughable that in a contract year, Petey doesn't show up against good teams? He was invisible last night, invisible against the Jets, invisible against the Bruins... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwarrior Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Its impressive they got this far into the season before they lost 3 in a row. Still sucks losing 3 in a row though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: Just tuned in and haven't read any posts yet. Has anybody else mentioned that it's laughable that in a contract year, Petey doesn't show up against good teams? He was invisible last night, invisible against the Jets, invisible against the Bruins... Yep lots of talk about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 12 minutes ago, Odd. said: Since it’s reported Penguins are going to be sellers, I wonder if they would entertain a trade around Mikheyev and Reilly Smith. I really think Mikheyev is going to prove more and more valuable as the season tightens up and transitions over to the Playoffs. He was not brought in to score 25 goals and 50+ points. The Canucks paid UFA pricing to land him and he will prove his worth as the games require more defensively reliable bodies. To put him into perspective with his style of play and production, think Jannik Hansen comparable. I wouldn't think its a waste waiting on him gaining more strength and ability in his skating and the offense coming along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 49 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Take your own advice then and stop engaging with me, then. It's funny to see you try and lecture me on how to not lecture others. Fans are watching Pettersson like helicopter parents. Maybe that's not a great analogy, but my point is that they're just waiting for Petey to fail. When he doesn't score, they use it as an example of his poor play, regardless of whether he actually played well or not. When he does score, they complain about why he can't do that more consistently. It's not leeway for MacKinnon and Makar. They had a great game last night but just didn't score. Astute Avs fans would praise the hard work they put in, and not "give them leeway" for a supposedly poor outing. Petey had a great game but just didn't score. The criticism seen here is absurd. No one wants Petey to fail...everyone wants Petey to show up in big games because we NEED that to be a serious contender, and he's NOT... If he's not going to show up when it matters, we don't want to be putting 12 mil of our cap long term into him. Regular season points against weak teams are not how winners win....he's not showing he's a gamer. What's of concern is he seems to be thinking he's the man. That he deserves 12 mil like the elite in the game because of his point totals. Well 12 mil is for gamers who win you cups and show up when it gets hard....so show up. You cannot honestly say Petey has been playing better than Miller or Hughes in the big games. They show up. He disappears. His attitude of I want to play for a "winner" vs I want to be helping this team be a winner should concern us all....it says a great deal about his attitude. Petey is a me first player, not team first, and his play is showing it. Sorry. Do I want him to get 100 points and lead like Bure, Linden or the twins did? Of course...because it means we then have a better chance at a cup...you're view that people want him to fail is ridiculous. People want him to play and show up in big games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFaithfulcap Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 minutes ago, gwarrior said: Its impressive they got this far into the season before they lost 3 in a row. Still sucks losing 3 in a row though. In the long run it doesn't matter. Boston only had one 3-loss streak last year, same as the laffs and both lost to florida who had 5 different 3 loss streaks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Water Walker Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 A bit of a no show for some players, but as said it's been a heavy schedule and the games times what... the... puck? I have said for years put Roger's towel statue in the basement, and put up one of him being the first professional sports coach to use video replay for training etc then maybe the refs would back the puck off, and surrender sucks socks, which is what the statue exhibits. (and I get it was historic that's not lost on me I am still a big Roger fan) I have posted before about our March 2024 setting up to be epic, 2 games of home cooking out of 15 in how many days yikes. GCG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, OldFaithfulcap said: In the long run it doesn't matter. Boston only had one 3-loss streak last year, same as the laffs and both lost to florida who had 5 different 3 loss streaks. They looked good yesterday, some bad calls again from refs and a poor PP did us in. We still had alot of chances. Had we played loosey goosey like against Minnesota I'd be worried....they found their game again, they'll be fine. Once we get Joshua and Soucy back that will help too. A couple of bad games at game 54 or what ever we're at is nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 minutes ago, Bardown said: Yep lots of talk about it... Anybody mention that the excuse of having bad wingers went out the door when we acquired Lindholm a month ago? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillStrimma Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: Just tuned in and haven't read any posts yet. Has anybody else mentioned that it's laughable that in a contract year, Petey doesn't show up against good teams? He was invisible last night, invisible against the Jets, invisible against the Bruins... ok, MacKinnon then, where were he? It was the third line making a difference last night, not Petey or MacKinnon. If you remember though both Lindy and Hogz could have scored… would you have whined then also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: Anybody mention that the excuse of having bad wingers went out the door when we acquired Lindholm a month ago? A player wanting 12 mil should be able to drive play....It's not about wingers...that excuse is nonsense. He only dominates with Miller and Boeser are playing with him. You could put a beer leaguer next to Hughes and it doesn't matter....same with Miller, they DRIVE play... If he wants 12 or thereabouts, he better start showing up when it matters and it gets harder, ie playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphouse Canuck Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 We actually played a good game last night. The Avs' commentary team reckoned it was the best game they'd see this season. We just came out on the wrong side of a tight game. They gotta change up the PP though, it's way too predictable, and too much time looking for the perfect shot. We're at 19.6% over the last 10 games and the output has been dropping lately. We have been handing possession to the opposition and then wasting valuable time getting set up again. Maybe change the personnel a bit on PP1 to give opponents something to think about? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, LillStrimma said: ok, MacKinnon then, where were he? It was the third line making a difference last night, not Petey or MacKinnon. If you remember though both Lindy and Hogz could have scored… would you have whined then also? Its not just last night, people are noticing its happening in all the big games that are hard, and when we NEED a goal...that's what HE'S paid for....How come we notice Hughes and Miller every night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillStrimma Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 9 minutes ago, Bardown said: No one wants Petey to fail...everyone wants Petey to show up in big games because we NEED that to be a serious contender, and he's NOT... If he's not going to show up when it matters, we don't want to be putting 12 mil of our cap long term into him. Regular season points against weak teams are not how winners win....he's not showing he's a gamer. What's of concern is he seems to be thinking he's the man. That he deserves 12 mil like the elite in the game because of his point totals. Well 12 mil is for gamers who win you cups and show up when it gets hard....so show up. You cannot honestly say Petey has been playing better than Miller or Hughes in the big games. They show up. He disappears. His attitude of I want to play for a "winner" vs I want to be helping this team be a winner should concern us all....it says a great deal about his attitude. Petey is a me first player, not team first, and his play is showing it. Sorry. Do I want him to get 100 points and lead like Bure, Linden or the twins did? Of course...because it means we then have a better chance at a cup...you're view that people want him to fail is ridiculous. People want him to play and show up in big games. That’s just ridiculus. Petey is a team first player. Wich you would have known by now. So in my view you have an agenda writing like you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillStrimma Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, Bardown said: Its not just last night, people are noticing its happening in all the big games that are hard, and when we NEED a goal...that's what HE'S paid for....How come we notice Hughes and Miller every night? We need someone to produce a goal. Our third line has been gold when the other team tries to nullify mostly Petey. Do you think the Avalanches fans crucify MacKinnon becaus it was their third line that produced in that game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 41 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: I would argue that seeing Petey play a 200 foot game and blocking shots as well as being relied upon as a top producer. Taking coach criticism and working to get better he has put the team ahead of himself. I think he puts a lot of pressure on himself to improve and be a leader on this team, that hasn't changed. There has been absolutely no delay in not re-signing. The player made it clear he was not negotiating during the season. It is quite actually that simple. Season is over and then open negotiations. He is an RFA there is zero risk of him going elsewhere and if another team was in a position to offer sheet him the Canucks would match. The Canucks are in no way hampered with further moves or decisions about other free agents by waiting on Petey. There is no distraction except the constant media and fans wondering out loud or questioning the player's will to remain in Vancouver. Few people listened to him when he said he wants to build a legacy here and less people are listening when he says he likes playing in Vancouver. Is it so hard to respect he and his representation have outlined to the club when they would like to negotiate ? Its all good in the hood. Years ago, Pettersson said he leaves everything to his agent, whom he no doubt keeps in touch with. JP Barry is known as a great agent for both his clients and the teams they play for. / If there was truly something wrong, it would have most likely been moved on by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, Bardown said: No one wants Petey to fail...everyone wants Petey to show up in big games because we NEED that to be a serious contender, and he's NOT... If he's not going to show up when it matters, we don't want to be putting 12 mil of our cap long term into him. Regular season points against weak teams are not how winners win....he's not showing he's a gamer. What's of concern is he seems to be thinking he's the man. That he deserves 12 mil like the elite in the game because of his point totals. Well 12 mil is for gamers who win you cups and show up when it gets hard....so show up. You cannot honestly say Petey has been playing better than Miller or Hughes in the big games. They show up. He disappears. His attitude of I want to play for a "winner" vs I want to be helping this team be a winner should concern us all....it says a great deal about his attitude. Petey is a me first player, not team first, and his play is showing it. Sorry. Do I want him to get 100 points and lead like Bure, Linden or the twins did? Of course...because it means we then have a better chance at a cup...you're view that people want him to fail is ridiculous. People want him to play and show up in big games. Right, but none of the big guys on either team showed up. On paper, that is. On one end, there's people praising Demko and Georgiev for their outstanding play between the pipes. And in that same breath, they're criticizing our players for not getting things done. Did Pettersson disappear last night? Far from it. Nobody on our team attacked the net more than Petey in the third. He was the one generating chances. He was the one stringing passes to the slot. But because he didn't score... he's selfish. He's not showing up. His attitude sucks. That's nonsense. Pettersson's never going to snap his stick in frustration, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to win. When Petey walked off the ice, you think he thought, "Yeah, I didn't play quite hard enough"? Is that what you really think? Now, you can say that he wasn't put in the best position to succeed, or that their set plays weren't executed correctly. That's a substantive argument. You could break down plays and point out how Colorado defended him or suggest how Petey's teammates can play off him better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 45 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I mean sure, people are free to see Pettersson as a one-dimensional player if they really want. And they'd be objectively wrong in just about every way. He has definitely had more defensive lapses compared to last year, that's for sure. But one-dimensional is beyond a stretch. All I see here is talk about getting rid of Pettersson. "He's not worth $12M" "If he wants the bag so bad he should go to Toronto" "We should trade him for _____" Petey is the future of the Canucks franchise and is being treated like one... everywhere but here. There's a reason this meme gained traction: I particularly enjoy the posts where people base their facts on what they 'sense' or 'feel' about what Petey is doing or thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, 24K said: It gas nothing to do with fans or media. It is affecting Petey in that he is playing trying to justify his ask and doing too much thinking on the ice instead of just letting instinct take over. He is feeling the pressure of betting on himself more than any external ones. Why is he feeling the pressure of betting on himself when he’s pretty much guaranteed he’ll get his pay regardless of if it’s in Vancouver or not? If this is affecting him and hes struggling like you guys claim but somehow still top 10 in scoring.. he must be one of the best in the world.. You want to know how important ep is to the success of the Canucks? When he doesn’t get a point the Canucks are sub .500 when Hughes or miller don’t have a point they still have a winning record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Tough L despite a lot of hardwork from the Canucks. Avs are a great team (top line w Makar/Girard is scary good) and the Canucks went toe to toe w them on a B2B at elevation. I do think we will see the Canucks take another step during this second half. Their W/L record might not be as sexy but playing these grinding games will be good for the group. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Well, we are facing teams that are much better and finding their legs/groove in the second half after the ASG. Our power play hasn't been clicking. We've also been more undisciplined, namely with our sticks. We're now facing deeper adversity that's giving us the answers to what we need to do to tighten up our game. We're also facing adversity as a result of injuries. You could even say the ASG disrupted our momentum but our guys did need a break. It's just like Tocchet said, this isn't going to get easier. It's all going to get tighter with more pressure ... and it is and has been. The reality is, as a result of all said above, we've been inconsistent. No show against Boston. Better battling against the Jets. The ridiculous game against the Wild. Better battling and effort against the Avs. These were indeed measuring games against teams we knew we'd be measured against and we can now measure where we are and what we need to work on. We have a good team, a top team. We have good coaches. We're facing adversity. We need to figure it out. The key is to not allow this three game skid to become a bigger trend. This next game against Seattle is a good optimization game to reset and prepare for Boston on Saturday. Are we really going to let Boston come into our arena and dominate us? That's up to them. Still, whatever happens, at some point, we do need to start making statements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Miss Korea said: That's some condescending bullshit right there I'm sorry you feel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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