WHL rocks Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, spook007 said: And?.... What's the alternative, provided they want to keep him? Woah.. some one woke up with a kink in their kneck.. It's just a fact. It's a point of knowledge. It doesn't need to be countered or debated or defended.. Just put it in your pocket and save it for later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 22 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Cap is going up $4 million per year every year. Plus, Mikheyev and Garland will be gone to make room for the young guys. That's another $10 million in cap space added. We can't keep everyone. But we MUST keep our core star players together... No one will touch either of those players without even more cap retention on our part (which we cannot afford). They are both on "Albatross" contracts and don't forget that OLE's $5M dead cap chews up the (hopefull $3.5-4M Cap increase next year. Add to that EP40's additional $4.5 Million - that effectively eats up the Myers windfall if we manage to find a low cost inexperienced guy to replace him - and it's pretty obvious that the canucks will have problems resigning all 11 players (half the team) that are expiring contracts who are all going to expect more. Every single analyst from Friedman on down has said it is a 100% impossibility to reatain this teams semblance into next year- which might actually be good thing -in hindsight - if things go off the rails. But we'll have to wait and see.............. Edited March 4 by RU SERIOUS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Provost said: That is silly… he is a great player, but not in the tier of the top three guys so that isn’t any sort of comparison. You could change that graphic to Kucherov and Pastrnak as the comparables, even accounting for % of cap when they were signed… and it tells a very different story. Kucherov is 30 points clear of Petterson. He got a fair deal right in the market range. He could have held out for $400k more on the open market or could have signed for $400k less to make it team friendly. They paid for the slight discount by giving the terms in a way to give the most amount of money in his pockets as possible, as well as the full NMC. Not silly at all: - agreed, the Kucherov deal is amazing but also a fairly extreme outlier. - also agreed, the three centers listed are in a different tier from an offensive perspective but I would put EP up against most other centers from a "200 foot game" perspective (although he has slipped a bit defensively this year so will be interesting to see if this signing frees him up a bit mentally) - except for AM, all players listed (including the two you listed) are 2+ years older than EP. Additionally, EP agreed to an 8 year deal compared to the 4 year deal for AM - EP is a center so will always require a premium when compared to wingers - close comp to a recently signed deal by Nylander (a winger) - and EP is the top salary by far on the Canucks, while Nylander is one of four forwards making 10+ million per year So what does it all mean? That EP has signed a deal under market (RFA position certainly helped with that) and committed to a long term deal. As this deal ages and the cap rises, it has the potential to become the new Kucherov contract (NM's deal is also in the same boat). In four years when most of the other deals are up, EP will still be under thirty and likely receiving less than 10% of the cap. Relevant and good news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I think 4.5 gets it done but he wants a long term deal. So you’d have to offer 5-6 years most likely. They have to ask themselves if he’s a core player if they’re willing to go that long. How the hell is our 6th dman who is averaging 17 minutes a game a core player? 4.5 x 6???? I like the kid, he is a great 3rd pairing dman but in a salary cap world you can't pay your #6 those numbers. With OELs hit coming up we can't allocate 7.75 million for our 3rd pairing (soucy has a ntc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, stawns said: Nylander has 40 points in 50 playoff games and has consistently been the Leafs best fwd playoff performer. I really don't understand where people get these ideas about WN. He's been one of th best, most consistent players in the NHL for a long time He was pretty soft in his first 3 years in the playoffs. It’s been the last 2-3 years where he picked it up. as someone who has watched the leafs a lot over the years, a lot of fans were worried he was overpaid in his first big contract because of it. He shyed away from the hard areas and board play. To his credit he has turned into a terrific player, and over the last couple of years has shed that concern, but I think you have a bit of recency bias here. Edited March 3 by Bardown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 49 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: Woah.. some one woke up with a kink in their kneck.. It's just a fact. It's a point of knowledge. It doesn't need to be countered or debated or defended.. Just put it in your pocket and save it for later. Didn't mean to sound aggressive... However, we will be seeing deals like that more often now... Its a good deal, in that we get Petey through his prime years, and don't have to regularly worry about, where we stand with regards to money... I am normally apprehensive about long term deals, but if ever there was a great gamble, this would be it... And its in my pocket Edited March 3 by spook007 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 12 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said: No one will touch either of those players without even more cap retention on our part (which we cannot afford). They are both on "Albatross" contracts and don't forget that OLE's $5M dead cap chews up the (hopefull $3.5-4M Cap increase next year. Add to that EP40's additional $4.5 Million - that effectively eats up the Myers windfall if we manage to find a low cost inexperienced guy to replace him - and it's pretty obvious that the canucks will have problems resigning all 11 players (half the team) that are expiring contracts who are all going to expect more. Every single analyst from Friedman on down has said it is a 100% impossibility to reatin this teams semblance into next year- which might actually be good thing in hindsight - if things go off the rails. But we'll have to wait and see.............. OEL's $5 million cap hit isn't for two more seasons. Next year it is for $2.3 million. Garland is easily tradeable right now. We may not get much for him but we wouldn't need to retain either. If we need to retain a bit on Mikheyev so be it. Friedman has no clue what Allvon is up to and what these free agents are asking for. Nobody knew Petey's number until it was announced. Lots of people were speculating it would be much more than $11.6 million and some said it may only be for 3-5 years. Guys like Lindholm and Hronek may very well take less to stay here. A guy like Joshua owes his career to Vancouver who took a chance on him and to Tocchet who turned him into a power forward. He will get paid but also may want to stick around and win a cup or two... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 57 minutes ago, The Lock said: Not surprised you're saying that. You have a tendency to have unrealistically high expectations to the point where you're in some fantasy land and far from reality. If we were at the negotiating table, you'd be on one end without budging and wondering why all your players are walking away to other teams. Funny because posters made the same comments when I was saying that Benning was overspending on players. My “unrealistic expectations” have hinged on going against the Gudbranson, Sbisa and OEL signings, as well as going against the Juolevi and Virtanen drafts. Arrest me for being so astute. Edited March 3 by Guntrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 16 minutes ago, Coryberg said: How the hell is our 6th dman who is averaging 17 minutes a game a core player? 4.5 x 6???? I like the kid, he is a great 3rd pairing dman but in a salary cap world you can't pay your #6 those numbers. With OELs hit coming up we can't allocate 7.75 million for our 3rd pairing (soucy has a ntc). Zadorov was one of the best players on the ice against Boston, one of the best teams in the league. He is not a #6 dman no matter how many times you want to scream this on this forum. And I don't care how many minutes he averages. We all know that Hughes eats up more minutes than most dmen, which takes away minutes from the others... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 No to resigning Zadorov and Lindholm. There’s just not enough cap. It’ll hurt to cut our losses on what we traded for Lindholm but it is what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Guntrix said: Funny because posters made the same comments when I was saying that Benning was overspending on players. My “unrealistic expectations” have hinged on going against the Gudbranson, Sbisa and OEL signings, as well as going against the Juolevi and Virtanen drafts. Arrest me for being so astute. Let me guess, you also think you have no misses through all of that. 10 years to get 5 hits. So you're right once every 2 years only. More ego than realism. It's not like this post is going to sway you anyway nor do I expect it to. You take the hits and ignore the misses to a fault. And don't get me wrong: an ego in itself is fine to have, but it's how you use it that makes all the difference in terms of how you're perceived by others. Being right the 1st time or however many times doesn't mean being right after that. You always start back at square with each prediction. Edited March 3 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 17 hours ago, Bardown said: He’s played 17 playoffs games and has 18 pts a ppg in the playoffs is considered exceptional and it’s not just a few games Since then he’s gotten better and stronger I’m curious why so many are ignoring his already proven performance in the playoffs? people called Bo a “playoff performer”, yet Petey well outplayed him in the same run. It's definitely a positive that he had 18 points in 17 games. I'd consider that this year he will have played 13 more games than the shortened 2019-20 season. Additionally, EP30 was still a relative unknown as it was his sophmore year as an NHLer and Canuck. 4 years later with more NHL hockey experience, but also more known NHL data for other teams to scout. Based on a 7 game First round series, I wonder if Tocchet will start with a Boeser, EP, and JT Miller line or try more balanced lines? If he wants to try the 649 line, then he'll need to start playing them more together over the last 10 games. We'll see how Tocchet coaches these types of issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 21 minutes ago, Guntrix said: No to resigning Zadorov and Lindholm. There’s just not enough cap. It’ll hurt to cut our losses on what we traded for Lindholm but it is what it is. You’re assuming that it’s a loss though. Time will tell. He will be judged by what he brings in the playoffs. That’s ultimately why we traded for him 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I'd go hard after Matt Roy in the summer as a UFA. Perfect partner for Zadorov. When Willander is ready he can play with Soucy and D-Petey. Hughes Hronek Zadorov Roy Soucy Willander D-Petey Juulsen That could be our defence for the next 4-5 years... Looks good... Juulsen can play with Soucy until Willander is ready... Juulsen earned the spot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 22 minutes ago, Guntrix said: No to resigning Zadorov and Lindholm. There’s just not enough cap. It’ll hurt to cut our losses on what we traded for Lindholm but it is what it is. I would def keep Zadorov and work out the numbers, because he is big, feisty, and a quality Dman. Lindholm has not had a good run w the Canucks yet, but maybe his value will improve in the 1st round. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Déjà Vu Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 29 minutes ago, Guntrix said: No to resigning Zadorov and Lindholm. There’s just not enough cap. It’ll hurt to cut our losses on what we traded for Lindholm but it is what it is. 90% we resign zadorov he loves it here, and so do the fans and the canucks organization 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: You’re assuming that it’s a loss though. Time will tell. He will be judged by what he brings in the playoffs. That’s ultimately why we traded for him It is. As for extending him or not, we really need to figure out our top 6 and where (or if) he fits in it. Get Joshua back and put the 3rd line back together then: Is it the Lotto line with Lindholm running the 2nd (matchup with say Mikheyev/Suter) line? Is he lining up with Pettersson with Miller/Boeser and Petey/Lindholm being our top 6 "pairs" with rotating wingers? Do Petey and Lindholm even form a complementary pair? He's likely going to cost $6.5-$7 to extend. If he doesn't fit in our top 6 with Petey, or driving a "matchup" 2nd line, that's way too much to spend on a 3C IMO. Same reason I don't see Garland as a long term fit on our 3rd line at $5m. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: It is. As for extending him or not, we really need to figure out our top 6 and where (or if) he fits in it. Get Joshua back and put the 3rd line back together then: Is it the Lotto line with Lindholm running the 2nd (matchup with say Mikheyev/Suter) line? Is he lining up with Pettersson with Miller/Boeser and Petey/Lindholm being our top 6 "pairs" with rotating wingers? Do Petey and Lindholm even form a complementary pair? He's likely going to cost $6.5-$7 to extend. If he doesn't fit in our top 6 with Petey, or driving a "matchup" 2nd line, that's way too much to spend on a 3C IMO. Same reason I don't see Garland as a long term fit on our 3rd line at $5m. You are absolutely right that money will be for the two top lines... as we start to tighten the belt, the top earners not producing or not on the top two lines will be lambs to the slaughter first... yeah Lindholm will not be extended to play 3C... If they don't see him on the top 2 lines, he'll be a rental... and while it is an expensive rental, its better than paying 7M+ for a player that doesn't fit anywhere... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Cap is going up $4 million per year every year. Plus, Mikheyev and Garland will be gone to make room for the young guys. That's another $10 million in cap space added. We can't keep everyone. But we MUST keep our core star players together... Always keeping in mind of the dead cap of $4.7m (25-26 and 26-27) for contracts with more than 2yr term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Interesting to compare the shot locations of Petey (https://edge.nhl.com/en/skater/20232024-regular-8480012) vs Flamingo Nylander (https://edge.nhl.com/en/skater/20232024-regular-8477939). Petey objectively goes into the tougher spaces to get his shots and goals. Nylander takes more shots but from low percentage low physical risk areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 11 hours ago, spook007 said: It's a good discussion with @HKSR I don't claim to completely understand it though I once had it explained to me when I understood it the way HKSR does. The bottom line is yes players that play for Canadian teams do pay a hefty bit more tax. But the tax they pay is based on where the games are played. The league simply wouldn't function at all if there was a 14.5 million tax penalty against Canadian teams vs say Dallas or Florida. Edited March 3 by Hammertime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 8 minutes ago, spook007 said: You are absolutely right that money will be for the two top lines... as we start to tighten the belt, the top earners not producing or not on the top two lines will be lambs to the slaughter first... yeah Lindholm will not be extended to play 3C... If they don't see him on the top 2 lines, he'll be a rental... and while it is an expensive rental, its better than paying 7M+ for a player that doesn't fit anywhere... Indeed. Worst case, he doesn't fit in our top 6 and we free up that cap space for signing a UFA or trading for someone (hopefully) better fitting. It's hardly dire either way. Really though, I hope it's just an acclimation issue combined with the team having a bit of a mid-late season, too much travel, tired legs etc lull. He's a good player and management has been pretty bang on with their pro scouting so far. Hopefully he can get acclimated and either fit with Petey or drive a matchup 2nd line that helps free up our 1st and 3rd lines more, while shutting down the opposition (Kesler role) and have a good playoffs. Either of those roles is solid value for us to extend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43isprime Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, Bob Long said: He's the 4th highest scoring C in the league at 25. That's disappearing to you? When he's about to make 11.6m and the coach describes his play as sporadic, just okay, and says he needa to drive play, yes, he's disappeared. Do you actually watch the games or just refresh the scoring leaders page everyday? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, 43isprime said: When he's about to make 11.6m and the coach describes his play as sporadic, just okay, and says he needa to drive play, yes, he's disappeared. Do you actually watch the games or just refresh the scoring leaders page everyday? nailed it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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