[Report] Canucks re-sign Pettersson to 8 year contract @ $11.6M

[IBatch]

On 4/11/2024 at 12:10 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

An all around centre is a centre who can do it all.  If you can’t kill penalties then you are immediately eliminated from the group.  Selke trophy candidates are the ones who are the most well rounded.  Last year, Petey finished 7th in Selke voting and 6th for centres.  Out of those 6 centres, Petey was by far the best offensive player of the group with 102 points.  The next closest centre was Nico Hischier with 80 points.  So basically Petey was the most well rounded and best all around centre last year.  His only competitors were Barkov and Hischier. And he statistically had much better seasons than both.  JT Miller only had 82 points last year and only received 1 Selke vote, Petey had 163 votes.  So it wasn’t even close between the two.

 

This season, Petey has regressed in regard to his points, however he is still on pace for 90+ points.  He has however greatly improved his faceoffs, to the point where Tocchet uses him even late in games.  He is over 50% on the dot for the first time in his career.  In order to win the Selke, you need to be a 50% faceoff guy, so Petey has hit that target.  Also, he is involved more physically in each game, more than doubling his hits from last season.  He is actually more well rounded this season than he was last season.  I believe a reason for his point regression is that he is focusing more on the defensive game. 

 

As for who are the best all around centres this season, you can eliminate any centre that doesn’t penalty kill.  So McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Point, Draisaitl are all out.  That leaves in no particular order, Matthews, Miller, Pettersson, Aho, Thomas, Barkov, Suzuki.

 

Matthews, Miller, Pettersson, Barkov, Aho, Suzuki and Thomas are therefore the top 7 all around centres in the NHL.  I would put Petey ahead of Aho, Suzuki and Thomas, so he would finish 4th on my list.

 

Honourable mention to Hischier, Hintz, Eriksson Ek and Kopitar…

 

I don’t need to watch every game as I’m not a scout.  And neither are you.  So now you can give me your list and the reasons why you think they are the top all around centres in the NHL.  And if you come back with only questions then don’t even bother responding because I’m not interested in answering any more of your questions.  You either need to put up or shut up at this point in regard to this discussion.  

Barkov leads the list of "all around centers" for me right now.    Every single game, he's tasked with shutting down the best players on whatever team he's facing.   Last year MT's line got all the attention,  while Barkov just continued to do what he does best which is the heavy lifting behind the limelight.     Also manages to do this without taking penalties which is remarkable.     As far as elite skills go, he's got that too, and doesn't need a wingman, can do it with anyone.    Florida tends to load up their first line, and let Barkov play the shut down role.    Without that, their system falls apart.      He's been a regular selke guy since his second season... Byng too.   Back to elite skills,  if anyone hasn't seen his  puck tapping, falling over deke and pass yet, well right now it's considered one of the best if not the best play's of the regular season.   

 

EPs funk this year has pulled him away .   As for Crosby, I don't think he should be punished for having his minutes managed, his defensive play is still very good.    At his age, he doesn't need to play more than 19 mins a game.     Barkovs are also being managed.     They have the centers for it.    Lindholm was brought in to help with ours, it's no slight on EP to see Lindholm out taking defensive zone draws in the third period as often as possible either, or that he's not PKing 2-4 minutes a night either.    That's what guys like Sutter are for.    Kesler was the last C we had that did that and played in the top six. 

 

When EPs on, he's as productive as all but McDavid and McKinnon.    Mathews is having a season right now that has to put him at or near the top as well, for all around centers.   The last two years he's worked on changing his game to be a more responsible two-way player.    Those goals are hard to ignore.    AHO isn't a bad comp either.    Like you, prefer EP. 

 

EP is a top five two-way center right now.    All around ... that's a bit subjective.    Go with Barkov because he reminds me of Jagr a little bit with the puck.   Has the hands to dish, and the body to play keep away, legs like tree trunks.    Can take a big hit and still maintain control.    Could also go with JT Miller, because he bangs a lot, and because since game one,  Tochett has tasked his line to go head to head with the best the other teams got (1st line versus 1st line).  

 

As for his cap hit.   When the caps over 100 in a few years nobody is going to be complaining about EP anymore, that focus will all be squarely on QHs shoulders. 

 

EPs "slump" means he's not scoring 100-110 this year.    Like all these other names,  the impact goes well beyond the scoreboard though.    Also I don't re-call us ever having a center we can slot in for 30 goals a season, year after year other than Linden, and he did a lot of that on the wing... Different era.    And with EP, it's more like 35-40.  

Edited April 14 by IBatch

[43isprime]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:10 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

An all around centre is a centre who can do it all.  If you can’t kill penalties then you are immediately eliminated from the group.  Selke trophy candidates are the ones who are the most well rounded.  Last year, Petey finished 7th in Selke voting and 6th for centres.  Out of those 6 centres, Petey was by far the best offensive player of the group with 102 points.  The next closest centre was Nico Hischier with 80 points.  So basically Petey was the most well rounded and best all around centre last year.  His only competitors were Barkov and Hischier. And he statistically had much better seasons than both.  JT Miller only had 82 points last year and only received 1 Selke vote, Petey had 163 votes.  So it wasn’t even close between the two.

 

This season, Petey has regressed in regard to his points, however he is still on pace for 90+ points.  He has however greatly improved his faceoffs, to the point where Tocchet uses him even late in games.  He is over 50% on the dot for the first time in his career.  In order to win the Selke, you need to be a 50% faceoff guy, so Petey has hit that target.  Also, he is involved more physically in each game, more than doubling his hits from last season.  He is actually more well rounded this season than he was last season.  I believe a reason for his point regression is that he is focusing more on the defensive game. 

 

As for who are the best all around centres this season, you can eliminate any centre that doesn’t penalty kill.  So McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Point, Draisaitl are all out.  That leaves in no particular order, Matthews, Miller, Pettersson, Aho, Thomas, Barkov, Suzuki.

 

Matthews, Miller, Pettersson, Barkov, Aho, Suzuki and Thomas are therefore the top 7 all around centres in the NHL.  I would put Petey ahead of Aho, Suzuki and Thomas, so he would finish 4th on my list.

 

Honourable mention to Hischier, Hintz, Eriksson Ek and Kopitar…

 

I don’t need to watch every game as I’m not a scout.  And neither are you.  So now you can give me your list and the reasons why you think they are the top all around centres in the NHL.  And if you come back with only questions then don’t even bother responding because I’m not interested in answering any more of your questions.  You either need to put up or shut up at this point in regard to this discussion.  

 

While I think this is fairly arbitrary, I commend you for trying. All-aroundness is a very difficult thing to assess, and I assume neither of us watch enough games to properly rank the centers. 

 

I mainly wanted to call attention to the hyperbole of the praise Pettersson often gets: "elite 100-pt two way center", "100-pt Selke finalist", "best all around center", "top 5 all around center", and "back-to-back 100 pt center". 

 

Which reminds me - might as well close the loop on this. Multiple does indeed mean 2 or more. Pettersson does not have 2 or more 100-pt seasons. He is therefore currently not a multiple 100-pt center. Not sure why you counted this season as a 100-pt season less than halfway in.

 

Edited April 19 by 43isprime

[43isprime]

Just a note... Mackinnon outscored Pettersson by somewhere around 50 pts this season. They will be exactly 1m apart in salary for the next 7 years.

 

Pettersson is a good player, and I hope he does great in the playoffs. But man he has a massive gap to make up in order to live up to that contract. 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, 43isprime said:

Just a note... Mackinnon outscored Pettersson by somewhere around 50 pts this season. They will be exactly 1m apart in salary for the next 7 years.

 

Pettersson is a good player, and I hope he does great in the playoffs. But man he has a massive gap to make up in order to live up to that contract. 

 

Well. He wanted the pressure, the expectation, and the money. He has all three. Time to live up to the contract that'll kick in starting next season. Time will tell if he can produce the way McKinnon can. He definitely needs to get stronger mentally, and physically still. I think he can get there, let's hope these long stretches where he's not productive on the ice - ironically - even when he's not as productive as he could be (these funks he tends to get into from time to time), he still can get points. But I think it's like what some radio hosts have been discussing is that it's the quality of the points. Not a point here (secondary assist) in a nothing game, or when they lose. He needs to be the driver of his line, and pushing the pace. I think he can get there, but I'm not certain if he'll ever get there. He may always be the kind of player that's a tier below the McDavids and the McKinnon. I'm fine with that. Just wish he wasn't paid like those guys. 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, 43isprime said:

 

While I think this is fairly arbitrary, I commend you for trying. All-aroundness is a very difficult thing to assess, and I assume neither of us watch enough games to properly rank the centers. 

 

I mainly wanted to call attention to the hyperbole of the praise Pettersson often gets: "elite 100-pt two way center", "100-pt Selke finalist", "best all around center", "top 5 all around center", and "back-to-back 100 pt center". 

 

Which reminds me - might as well close the loop on this. Multiple does indeed mean 2 or more. Pettersson does not have 2 or more 100-pt seasons. He is therefore currently not a multiple 100-pt center. Not sure why you counted this season as a 100-pt season less than halfway in.

 

I think he can get there to becoming a multiple 100-point player if he's given wingers to produce with. At least the Sedins had each other right? If we're talking duos, Daniel had Hank and Hank had Danny. Petey doesn't have anyone - maybe Höglander, assuming he can be consistent enough. But Petey needs a winger like Guentzel to be producing at a high-level pace like that. He's not McDavid, where he can turn a player like Hyman into a 50-goal scorer. 

[Ohthehumanity]

I have been trying to figure out what is going with him, and then watching him last night, it made me think his stick is too long. He is too upright with the puck and gets knocked off it too easily. Sure, he gets more on his shot with it longer, but I'd rather see him with a shorter twig so that in traffic and on the wall, he can get lower and protect the puck better. I mean what do I know? I just come from the same belief as Howie Meeker!

[Drakrami]

To me Pettersson is very good at anticipating plays. He is McDavid level at this. But without the McDavid mobility, reaction speed and hands. A certain member is always advocating Pettersson's defensive aspects. Doesn't seem like he watches Pettersson play though. He is never actively checking. He is usually drifting in the middle of passing lanes, and since he is so good at anticipating plays, he is also very good at intercepting passes. 

 

 

[Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Drakrami said:

To me Pettersson is very good at anticipating plays. He is McDavid level at this. But without the McDavid mobility, reaction speed and hands. A certain member is always advocating Pettersson's defensive aspects. Doesn't seem like he watches Pettersson play though. He is never actively checking. He is usually drifting in the middle of passing lanes, and since he is so good at anticipating plays, he is also very good at intercepting passes. 

 

 

I think Pettersson is capable of playing very good defensive hockey, but he also wasn't as good defensively (or as consistent defensively) this season as he was last season. You're right that he definitely plays a more anticipatory style rather than a puck hound style like Blueger for example.

[JeremyCuddles]

As one of the harsher Pettersson critics. There are some parts of his game that need to be addressed. First off, imagine having a down year and you dropped 34 goals and 89 points. Lol. The idea of that does kind of make a lot of my critiques sound dumb. Also, he has taken a pretty big stride forward in the physicality department. He had 125 hits in 82 games. In 80 games last year he had 74, and it goes down the further back you go. 50 hit increase. He's trying to effect the game in other ways when he isn't offensively dominating teams. Also, also. Dude doesn't really have or had any true top 6 wingers. Lindholm has been moved to 3C and Mikheyev is where offence goes to die, Kuzy was a one trick pony who falls apart when the team actually wants to try play defence. Hoglander is likely knocking on the door of true top 6 player, but isn't there yet. So Petey is trying to carry a developing young winger and Loui E 2.0 in Mikheyev.

 

He's not doing what MacKinnon is doing, yeah well Petey doesn't have Rantanen. He's not doing what Matthews is doing, yeah well Petey doesn't have Marner/Nylander. He isn't doing what McDavid is doing, yeah well he doesn't have Draisaitl. Hoglander is the best winger he has, and Hogs is a 23 year old he was in the AHL last year. And while he has been good this year, he only had 36 points. Not exactly Draisaitl, Rantanen, or Marner/Nylander. My only real issue with Petey is his strength on his skates. But overall, the dude is pretty legit. Strong offensive instincts, good hands, hard working, defensively sound, adding more physicality. Feel like he might be getting a bit too much heat.

[erkayloomeh]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:03 AM, Ohthehumanity said:

I have been trying to figure out what is going with him, and then watching him last night, it made me think his stick is too long. He is too upright with the puck and gets knocked off it too easily. Sure, he gets more on his shot with it longer, but I'd rather see him with a shorter twig so that in traffic and on the wall, he can get lower and protect the puck better. I mean what do I know? I just come from the same belief as Howie Meeker!

Us older hockey folk that were trained by Peter puck are a step up from everyone else. 

[Kage17]

Personally feel where the problem lies with Petterson is that when he is healthy he is one of the best players in the league. However he is quickly becoming injury prone because of his lack of size and has to play hurt regularly. He is clearly nursing something right now and for a while and when he does he is just another average player. 
 

 Unless he can add another 10 lbs give or take of muscle I would wager that playing hurt will become the norm for him. Will be a very interesting off season to see what happens with him.

[I.Am.Ironman]

11 hours ago, Kage17 said:

Personally feel where the problem lies with Petterson is that when he is healthy he is one of the best players in the league. However he is quickly becoming injury prone because of his lack of size and has to play hurt regularly. He is clearly nursing something right now and for a while and when he does he is just another average player. 
 

 Unless he can add another 10 lbs give or take of muscle I would wager that playing hurt will become the norm for him. Will be a very interesting off season to see what happens with him.

What do you expect to happen with him in the off season? He just locked in for 8 years and has since played poorly. We just have to hope he improves.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

What do you expect to happen with him in the off season? He just locked in for 8 years and has since played poorly. We just have to hope he improves.

Players will not use injuries as an excuse. After the season we will find out what’s up with Petey. Clearly he’s playing with something not right. 
JR knows elite when he sees it. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Players will not use injuries as an excuse. After the season we will find out what’s up with Petey. Clearly he’s playing with something not right. 
JR knows elite when he sees it. 

JR and PA should have had the foresight to let Pettersson earn the 11.6 with a strong playoffs. If pettersson were to tear it up in the playoffs then sign his contract, all parties win. I don't know how much above 11.6 it would have taken Pettersson, if at all. 11.8 maybe? Yet here we are.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

JR and PA should have had the foresight to let Pettersson earn the 11.6 with a strong playoffs. If pettersson were to tear it up in the playoffs then sign his contract, all parties win. I don't know how much above 11.6 it would have taken Pettersson, if at all. 11.8 maybe? Yet here we are.

I think that would have been the best idea. 

[Diamonds]

On 4/25/2024 at 7:19 PM, Kage17 said:

Personally feel where the problem lies with Petterson is that when he is healthy he is one of the best players in the league. However he is quickly becoming injury prone because of his lack of size and has to play hurt regularly. He is clearly nursing something right now and for a while and when he does he is just another average player. 
 

 Unless he can add another 10 lbs give or take of muscle I would wager that playing hurt will become the norm for him. Will be a very interesting off season to see what happens with him.

I'm not so sure Petey is injured right now actually. I know that has been the theory for a little bit, but if he was they would have rested him the last game of the regular season like they did Boeser. Instead they opted to play Petey which tells me either it's so minor of an injury it doesn't matter or he isn't injured.

[Drakrami]

On 4/28/2024 at 2:05 AM, Diamonds said:

I'm not so sure Petey is injured right now actually. I know that has been the theory for a little bit, but if he was they would have rested him the last game of the regular season like they did Boeser. Instead they opted to play Petey which tells me either it's so minor of an injury it doesn't matter or he isn't injured.

People on this forum make up the most retarded reasons to make up their own narrative. Let's put an injured Pettersson on the penaltykill so he can get more injured and suck even more offensively in the most important games of the season when we literally have 7-8 players who can penaltykill in our lineup. 

[43isprime]

1 hour ago, Drakrami said:

People on this forum make up the most retarded reasons to make up their own narrative. Let's put an injured Pettersson on the penaltykill so he can get more injured and suck even more offensively in the most important games of the season when we literally have 7-8 players who can penaltykill in our lineup. 

 

Most of the speculation about the injury so far has stemmed from his poor play (frankly, he's been poor for around 3 months now, so not sure why some people are surprised he's not been great this series). But his deployment (as you mention, he does the PK), his faceoffs (he's taken 49 faceoffs in 5 games, which is a similar pace to his 799 in 82 games over this season), and the fact that he played Game 82 when some other core players did not, would indicate that he's not significantly hurt. 

 

I guess we'll only know for sure afterwards.

[Dr. Crossbar]

15 hours ago, Drakrami said:

People on this forum make up the most retarded reasons to make up their own narrative.

 

This is the most accurate thing I've ever seen on this forum. 

[Coconuts]

On 4/18/2024 at 9:11 PM, 43isprime said:

Just a note... Mackinnon outscored Pettersson by somewhere around 50 pts this season. They will be exactly 1m apart in salary for the next 7 years.

 

Pettersson is a good player, and I hope he does great in the playoffs. But man he has a massive gap to make up in order to live up to that contract. 

 

 

Simply put, Pettersson isn't in MacKinnon's bracket. He doesn't have MacKinnon's skill set or his toolbox, MacKinnon is closer to being in McDavid territory than he is to being in Pettersson territory. MacKinnon is a top 5 NHL forward, arguably top 2 or 3, Pettersson's probably somewhere between 8-15 when he's at his best. 

 

Realistically I think solid expectations for Pettersson range between 90-110 points, the top end of which would have had him tied for 5th in points this season with Pastrnak. 

 

Mac's got two 100+ seasons to his name but his point per game has been on pace for 100+ the past seven seasons. Mac took a few seasons to get going, but also made his NHL debut at 18 years old and 31 days; he was the youngest Av player ever. Mac put up 97 points in his age 22 season and hasn't looked back since.

 

We need more from Pettersson, particularly this playoffs, but he doesn't have to match MacKinnon's top end offense to live up to his deal. That just ain't realistic, he's not a McDavid/MacKinnon/Kucherov level offensive threat. He just needs to put up 90-110 points and be the two-way force we know he's capable of being.

Edited May 2 by Coconuts

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

Simply put, Pettersson isn't in MacKinnon's bracket. He doesn't have MacKinnon's skill set or his toolbox, MacKinnon is closer to being in McDavid territory than he is to being in Pettersson territory. MacKinnon is a top 5 NHL forward, arguably top 2 or 3, Pettersson's probably somewhere between 8-15 when he's at his best. 

 

Realistically I think solid expectations for Pettersson range between 90-110 points, the top end of which would have had him tied for 5th in points this season with Pastrnak. 

 

Mac's got two 100+ seasons to his name but his point per game has been on pace for 100+ the past seven seasons. Mac took a few seasons to get going, but also made his NHL debut at 18 years old and 31 days; he was the youngest Av player ever. Mac put up 97 points in his age 22 season and hasn't looked back since.

 

We need more from Pettersson, particularly this playoffs, but he doesn't have to match MacKinnon's top end offense to live up to his deal. That just ain't realistic, he's not a McDavid/MacKinnon/Kucherov level offensive threat. He just needs to put up 90-110 points and be the two-way force we know he's capable of being.

 

MacKinnon has been in the league 11 years.  Petey only 6.  MacKinnon's best year just happened at age 29.  So we need to give Petey some time to catch up.  He may never score 140 points, but I would wager he gets back to being a 100+ point player as early as next season.  

 

Plus, he doesn't have a Mikko Rantanen by his side.  Lekkerimaki could be that guy.  If you put a top flight winger on Petey's line, that could be the tipping point for him to become a truly elite player.

 

Also, Petey is a better defensive centre than MacKinnon and is now clearly better on draws too.  Petey is now almost at 51% in the faceoff circle, so he has clearly improved on that this season.  Plus, he is much more engaged physically with 125 hits this year.

 

We have Miller who can also score 100 points, so Petey can be the Pavel Datsyuk of the team.  That was my comparison of him from the very beginning.  A 100 point centre who can win the Selke.  I still think he will accomplish this...

Edited May 3 by Elias Pettersson

[wai_lai416]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:20 AM, I.Am.Ironman said:

JR and PA should have had the foresight to let Pettersson earn the 11.6 with a strong playoffs. If pettersson were to tear it up in the playoffs then sign his contract, all parties win. I don't know how much above 11.6 it would have taken Pettersson, if at all. 11.8 maybe? Yet here we are.

Earn? Aren’t the fans and management the one that pressured and forced EP to sign the contract? People were calling for his head for refusing to negotiate during the season and the management held a gun to his head either sign or we trading you 

[I.Am.Ironman]

43 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Earn? Aren’t the fans and management the one that pressured and forced EP to sign the contract? People were calling for his head for refusing to negotiate during the season and the management held a gun to his head either sign or we trading you 

Not everybody. Alvin and Rutherford obviously were. If 11.6 was going to be the number they should have waited until the end of playoffs to gauge how he did. If Petey tore it up he'd still end up at 11.6-11.9 imo... AND we'd be on to rd 2 by now. Now, if they signed him to an AAV in the high 10s i'd understand them locking it in, but at 11.6 there was no need to rush.

[wai_lai416]

21 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Not everybody. Alvin and Rutherford obviously were. If 11.6 was going to be the number they should have waited until the end of playoffs to gauge how he did. If Petey tore it up he'd still end up at 11.6-11.9 imo... AND we'd be on to rd 2 by now. Now, if they signed him to an AAV in the high 10s i'd understand them locking it in, but at 11.6 there was no need to rush.

not everybody but there's quite a few "fans" calling for him to be traded if he won't negotiate.. but i still think the biggest mistake is taking away a legit top 6 forward and replaced it with another 3rd/4th liner.. i mean you can say kuzmenko for lindholm is a top 6 for a top 6.. but RT refuses to play lindholm in a top 6 role.. lindholm prolly played 4 total games since the trade in the top 2 lines and then never again.. i think the biggest fail for the management is not able to negotiate any retention in zadorov or lindholm or find a 3rd party to take a portion of it.. and then after a month of lindholm when he's playing on the 3rd line it's clear we need a top 6 winger but we ended up doing nothing coz we have 0 cap.. you take away from EP and get him nothing back in return and no surprise he struggled hard since the trade.. the canucks used to have 4 4.5 top 6 forwards.. now they have 3.5 with 2 of them on the same line. hoglander to me is a .5 coz he's either really noticeable or he's invisible there's like no inbetween with him.

[IBatch]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:11 AM, 43isprime said:

Just a note... Mackinnon outscored Pettersson by somewhere around 50 pts this season. They will be exactly 1m apart in salary for the next 7 years.

 

Pettersson is a good player, and I hope he does great in the playoffs. But man he has a massive gap to make up in order to live up to that contract. 

 

Said this repeatedly in the book sized thread about where his salary should be, and where it likely will end up.   Also said, he's going to be torn to shreds the moment he's not scoring 100 plus once the ink dries.   You sure are helping make that prediction happen. 

 

Said he's worth 10.5.   Was torn to shreds by some for even suggesting less then 11.   Also said, because of our taxes, it's going to be over 11.   And only because of that.    MT takes home MORE, making 9.5, then EP takes home making 11.6.   MT takes home around 6.4 before tax shelters.   EP takes home 5.45.   

 

That's the reality of the market we play in.    Send all complaints, to the league.   Like Burke recently said, until they adjust the cap accordingly, players will tick off all 7 of the Canadian teams first in modified NTC's, and anyone who signs long term for these teams, will get bent over making the deals. 

 

Also, as others have pointed out, once the cap hits 100 (in a few years), his cap percentage starts to be palatable.   And by the time he's 29-31 (Sedins peak season's), EPs cap percentage will be likely be almost identical to what theirs were.    The deal(s) that will be very scary,  will be QHs and possibly Demko's (Demko's if he can play 55-60 games a year at the same level). 

 

EP does need to figure his shit out for sure. 

Edited May 3 by IBatch