[Report] Canucks re-sign Pettersson to 8 year contract @ $11.6M

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Has MacKinnon the best players beside him or are they separated on two different lines? 
Or three as it might be the case with us.

 

Petey has a more impressive start to his career than mac.

[MeanSeanBean]

4 hours ago, 43isprime said:

 

I said what I said based on the logical assumption that no sensible person compares total point production between two players having played an unequal number of games by season's end. You doubling and tripling down on doing just that tells me there is no point in continuing this bizarre, and frankly, ludicrous conversation.

 

All the best to you.

 

 

Bizarre indeed, haven't had anyone open with a lie that's so easily disproved and then attempt to recover for this long before. Thankful we can move on.

[43isprime]

On 3/8/2024 at 10:53 PM, LillStrimma said:

Has MacKinnon the best players beside him or are they separated on two different lines? 
Or three as it might be the case with us.

 

Linemates are earned through good play. He got to play with the best wingers his first two years over Bo Horvat, and rightfully so because he was clearly the superior player. This year, I guess he hasn't earned that right over Miller. I doubt many would argue with that.

 

He did spend some time on Miller's wing, but aside from the 4 games, I'm not sure the line was actually that great. I'd note that Mikheyev has been more visible since he switched to that line from Pettersson's wing.

 

The Canucks did get Lindholm to play with Pettersson. Lindholm is supposed to be a proven top 6 player. Clearly the pair didn't play well enough to be kept together.

 

I think Hoglander has done a really good job of driving play on Pettersson's wing. I'm expecting to see that pair be more productive going forward because they are generating offense.

 

Pettersson played with Kuzmenko, who last year had an absurdly high 27% shooting pctg. When people here cite Pettersson's 100+ point season last year, I don't see them saying it may have been in part due to playing with a winger who shot at a 27% clip.

 

If you want to blame Pettersson's wingers for his slow down in production this season, you might also think about whether Kuzmenko's 27% shooting pctg played a part in helping Pettersson produce the way he did last season.

 

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Linemates are earned through good play. He got to play with the best wingers his first two years over Bo Horvat, and rightfully so because he was clearly the superior player. This year, I guess he hasn't earned that right over Miller. I doubt many would argue with that.

 

He did spend some time on Miller's wing, but aside from the 4 games, I'm not sure the line was actually that great. I'd note that Mikheyev has been more visible since he switched to that line from Pettersson's wing.

 

The Canucks did get Lindholm to play with Pettersson. Lindholm is supposed to be a proven top 6 player. Clearly the pair didn't play well enough to be kept together.

 

I think Hoglander has done a really good job of driving play on Pettersson's wing. I'm expecting to see that pair be more productive going forward because they are generating offense.

 

Pettersson played with Kuzmenko, who last year had an absurdly high 27% shooting pctg. When people here cite Pettersson's 100+ point season last year, I don't see them saying it may have been in part due to playing with a winger who shot at a 27% clip.

 

If you want to blame Pettersson's wingers for his slow down in production this season, you might also think about whether Kuzmenko's 27% shooting pctg played a part in helping Pettersson produce the way he did last season.

 

 

Petey is a super duper star. He signed a team friendly deal. He absolutely drives his line regardless of who is on his wings. 

[43isprime]

23 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Petey has a more impressive start to his career than mac.

 

Points-wise, Pettersson definitely had a better first four seasons.

 

I'd argue it's not as simple as that, though. First, MacKinnon's played his first game after he'd only just turned 18. Pettersson turned 20 after just a month or two after his first game. I'd imagine it's harder to play in the NHL at 18 than 20.

 

League scoring was also lower during MacKinnon's first four seasons (about 2.71-2.77 goals per game per team). Save percentage was of course also higher. In Pettersson's first 4 years, teams were scoring between 2.94-3.14 goals per game.

 

Also recall that MacKinnon was runner up for the Hart Trophy in his 5th season. Overall, he had 2 runner ups and one finalist for the Hart Trophy prior to turning 26.

 

Pettersson is in his 6th season, and will turn 26 in November this year, and will obviously lack the credentials that Mackinnon had at this age (or even if you count by seasons). 

 

[Rekker]

On 3/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, MeanSeanBean said:

Last year Pettersson and Mac were within 10 points of each other. This year Mac has statically pulled ahead, but he also is doing so with Rantanen as his most consistent linemate this year, while Petey has had Mik. Petey is a 25 year old center who is showing he will be a consistent 100 point player. This is a very good deal for the Canucks, even if they cap was not going up.

Yip. also, I believe Mac did not have the points totals EP has at the same age.

[Bob Long]

41 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Points-wise, Pettersson definitely had a better first four seasons.

 

I'd argue it's not as simple as that, though. First, MacKinnon's played his first game after he'd only just turned 18. Pettersson turned 20 after just a month or two after his first game. I'd imagine it's harder to play in the NHL at 18 than 20.

 

League scoring was also lower during MacKinnon's first four seasons (about 2.71-2.77 goals per game per team). Save percentage was of course also higher. In Pettersson's first 4 years, teams were scoring between 2.94-3.14 goals per game.

 

Also recall that MacKinnon was runner up for the Hart Trophy in his 5th season. Overall, he had 2 runner ups and one finalist for the Hart Trophy prior to turning 26.

 

Pettersson is in his 6th season, and will turn 26 in November this year, and will obviously lack the credentials that Mackinnon had at this age (or even if you count by seasons). 

 

 

sure, but Mac wasn't instantly the Mac we see today, it took him years to develop. Same with Petey, he's still getting better as well.

 

[LillStrimma]

4 hours ago, 43isprime said:

 

Linemates are earned through good play. He got to play with the best wingers his first two years over Bo Horvat, and rightfully so because he was clearly the superior player. This year, I guess he hasn't earned that right over Miller. I doubt many would argue with that.

 

Ok, I assume you thought Eriksson and Goldobin was two of the best wingers back then…

Now Tocchet does the same as Green, using Petey as a deflection so Miller doesn’t have to have two d in front of him all the time. Think of how many points Miller has got straight from Hughes and when he pass it to Boeser, score.

 

 

4 hours ago, 43isprime said:

He did spend some time on Miller's wing, but aside from the 4 games, I'm not sure the line was actually that great. I'd note that Mikheyev has been more visible since he switched to that line from Pettersson's wing.

 

The Canucks did get Lindholm to play with Pettersson. Lindholm is supposed to be a proven top 6 player. Clearly the pair didn't play well enough to be kept together.

 

Tocchet has an idea of having a top 9 and if so Lindy has to have his own line.

 

4 hours ago, 43isprime said:

I think Hoglander has done a really good job of driving play on Pettersson's wing. I'm expecting to see that pair be more productive going forward because they are generating offense.

 

Pettersson played with Kuzmenko, who last year had an absurdly high 27% shooting pctg. When people here cite Pettersson's 100+ point season last year, I don't see them saying it may have been in part due to playing with a winger who shot at a 27% clip.

 

If you want to blame Pettersson's wingers for his slow down in production this season, you might also think about whether Kuzmenko's 27% shooting pctg played a part in helping Pettersson produce the way he did last season.

 

 

It’s rather that Kuz was new and didn’t have the mark on him from the defence.

So he was often unmarked when Petey passed. 

[iinatcc]

On 3/7/2024 at 2:39 PM, Conscience said:

At least its 8 years, could eventually become a good deal

It's no Jack Hughes sweetheart deal but it's a good deal with the cap going up and the possibility Petey takes one more step in his game. 

[43isprime]

8 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

sure, but Mac wasn't instantly the Mac we see today, it took him years to develop. Same with Petey, he's still getting better as well.

 

 

I think he's improved defensively and he's added the PK to his game. I think his faceoffs are better as well. He's probably also stronger now than before.

 

Offensively, I'm not sure he looks that much more dynamic (or even as dynamic) as we saw in his first two years. Teams seem to not be letting him get off the one-timer on the PP. He also doesn't seem able to get off his wrist shots with the same frequency as in the first two years. He used to snipe it like crazy, and I see that less often now. 

 

Speed-wise, at best, he's only just kept up with the league, and hasn't really upped his speed relative to the field.

 

I of course hope he lives up to and exceeds the contract.  But I just don't see it as the discount many are saying it is.

 

Consider what MacKinnon had accomplished prior to signing his deal (which he will be on for the next 7 years). He was a proven superstar and the Avs knew exactly what they'd be getting. With Pettersson, we're betting on a pretty big improvement.

 

Pettersson will only be making 1m less than Mackinnon. With an increasing cap, that 1m difference will mean less every year. 

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 43isprime said:

 

I think he's improved defensively and he's added the PK to his game. I think his faceoffs are better as well. He's probably also stronger now than before.

 

Offensively, I'm not sure he looks that much more dynamic (or even as dynamic) as we saw in his first two years. Teams seem to not be letting him get off the one-timer on the PP. He also doesn't seem able to get off his wrist shots with the same frequency as in the first two years. He used to snipe it like crazy, and I see that less often now. 

 

Speed-wise, at best, he's only just kept up with the league, and hasn't really upped his speed relative to the field.

 

I of course hope he lives up to and exceeds the contract.  But I just don't see it as the discount many are saying it is.

 

Consider what MacKinnon had accomplished prior to signing his deal (which he will be on for the next 7 years). He was a proven superstar and the Avs knew exactly what they'd be getting. With Pettersson, we're betting on a pretty big improvement.

 

Pettersson will only be making 1m less than Mackinnon. With an increasing cap, that 1m difference will mean less every year. 

 

 

 

teams that don't bet on their young stars tend to lose them, imo. Petey looks like a pretty good bet, and that cap% is going to look great in 2 years. 

[43isprime]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

teams that don't bet on their young stars tend to lose them, imo. Petey looks like a pretty good bet, and that cap% is going to look great in 2 years. 

 

Going to look great relative to who?

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 43isprime said:

 

Going to look great relative to who?

 

other top 15 in the league players that are due for long term deals in the next 2-3 years, and relative to the cap going up. 

[43isprime]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

teams that don't bet on their young stars tend to lose them, imo. Petey looks like a pretty good bet, and that cap% is going to look great in 2 years. 

 

And remember that we have a window until the end of Hughes' current deal that ends in 2027. McDavid is making 12.5m until 2026 (when Demko's expires), which leaves only 1y at the end of that window where Pettersson will presumably be making appreciably less than Mcdavid (at which point I imagine Miller will have declined at least a little bit).

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 43isprime said:

 

And remember that we have a window until the end of Hughes' current deal that ends in 2027. McDavid is making 12.5m until 2026 (when Demko's expires), which leaves only 1y at the end of that window where Pettersson will presumably be making appreciably less than Mcdavid (at which point I imagine Miller will have declined at least a little bit).

 

 

Looking at all NHL players, Petey is #15 in points looking at the last 3 years combined, 8th if you look at last 2 years combined. #11 as of today for this season. Kids legit and his salary is not out of line with the other players in that cohort. Who would you replace him with from that group that would be a cheaper AND want to be here?

 

We do have a window with Hughes where he may become unaffordable, but maybe not. By 2027 we're probably looking at a 100 mil cap. It'll be more about where he wants to play vs his salary.

[43isprime]

9 hours ago, Rekker said:

Yip. also, I believe Mac did not have the points totals EP has at the same age.

 

MacKinnon played 9 fewer games than Pettersson last season. Over an 82-game pace, Pettersson would have been over 20 pts shy of Mackinnon's pace.

 

[43isprime]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Looking at all NHL players, Petey is #15 in points looking at the last 3 years combined, 8th if you look at last 2 years combined. #11 as of today for this season. Kids legit and his salary is not out of line with the other players in that cohort. Who would you replace him with from that group that would be a cheaper AND want to be here?

 

We do have a window with Hughes where he may become unaffordable, but maybe not. By 2027 we're probably looking at a 100 mil cap. It'll be more about where he wants to play vs his salary.

 

Hughes will obviously get a huge raise, and his contract is likely to be less efficient than it is right now. That's what I mean by the Hughes window. And indeed, I'm not sure it's a slam dunk that he'll re-sign with us instead of going to NJ.

 

I suppose only time will tell. But as I mentioned, until the end of 2026 (only 1 year prior to the end of the current Hughes window), Mackinnon and McDavid will be making only 1m and 0.9m more than Pettersson. That to me is pretty out of line.

 

I understand Mcdavid's contract was from a while ago, but the reality is they'll be making within 1m of Pettersson for a good chunk (or all, in MacKinnon's case) of our Hughes window. Edmonton and Colorado are currently two of the teams standing in our way.

 

Pettersson still has a huge step to take to live up to that standard, in terms of both consistency and overall production. Not saying it won't happen, but it's a gamble.

 

[Bob Long]

Just now, 43isprime said:

 

Hughes will obviously get a huge raise, and his contract is likely to be less efficient than it is right now. That's what I mean by the Hughes window. And indeed, I'm not sure it's a slam dunk that he'll re-sign with us instead of going to NJ.

 

I suppose only time will tell. But as I mentioned, until the end of 2026 (only 1 year prior to the end of the current Hughes window), Mackinnon and McDavid will be making only 1m and 0.9m more than Pettersson. That to me is pretty out of line.

 

I understand Mcdavid's contract was from a while ago, but the reality is they'll be making within 1m of Pettersson for a good chunk (or all, in MacKinnon's case) of our Hughes window. Edmonton and Colorado are currently two of the teams standing in our way.

 

Pettersson still has a huge step to take to live up to that standard, in terms of both consistency and overall production. Not saying it won't happen, but it's a gamble.

 

 

why is it "out of line"? would you prefer Petey walk? 

[The Duke]

8 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Hughes will obviously get a huge raise, and his contract is likely to be less efficient than it is right now. That's what I mean by the Hughes window. And indeed, I'm not sure it's a slam dunk that he'll re-sign with us instead of going to NJ.

 

I suppose only time will tell. But as I mentioned, until the end of 2026 (only 1 year prior to the end of the current Hughes window), Mackinnon and McDavid will be making only 1m and 0.9m more than Pettersson. That to me is pretty out of line.

 

I understand Mcdavid's contract was from a while ago, but the reality is they'll be making within 1m of Pettersson for a good chunk (or all, in MacKinnon's case) of our Hughes window. Edmonton and Colorado are currently two of the teams standing in our way.

 

Pettersson still has a huge step to take to live up to that standard, in terms of both consistency and overall production. Not saying it won't happen, but it's a gamble.

 

You’re going to need to explain how McDavid and MacKinnon’s contracts mean we shouldn’t sign Pettersson for 11.6.  
 

It’s not like there’s a choice to sign MacKinnon or McDavid instead of Petey.  There’s not even an opportunity to get anyone close to Petey regardless of contract.  That’s the rub.  You need to play the cards dealt.  If you consider those two Aces, it doesn’t mean you throw away a King - unless you want to wait another 10 years. 
 

Having Petey, Miller and Hughes locked up for the next 3 years at 27.5 or whatever is pretty crazy.  Those are 3 elite players who are all playing at a 10+ mil level.  
 

Throw in Demko for 2 of those seasons at 5 mil and that’s the reason Allvin is laughing despite the OEL cap hit. 

[43isprime]

21 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

why is it "out of line"? would you prefer Petey walk? 

 

It's out of line because Pettersson is currently nowhere near as good as Mackinnon.

 

I'm simply saying it's not the discount many say it is.

 

What do you mean by Pettersson walking? That we lose him for nothing or we trade him? 

 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

It's out of line because Pettersson is currently nowhere near as good as Mackinnon.

 

Pasternak. Nylander. Panarin.

 

2 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

I'm simply saying it's not the discount many say it is.

 

What do you mean by Pettersson walking? That we lose him for nothing or we trade him? 

 

 

I really don't see what your point is, other than saying he isn't Mac. OK? and? he's the talent we have to lock up. We don't have Mac. 

 

Edited March 10 by Bob Long

[43isprime]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Pasternak. Nylander. Panarin.

 

 

I really don't see what your point is, other than saying he isn't Mac. OK? and? he's the talent we have to lock up. We don't have Mac. 

 

 

Right, so you agree it's not in line with Mackinnon's. That's my point. Unfortunately, Mackinnon happens to be the guy in our conference. 

 

What makes you think Pettersson's deal is in line with Pastrnak's? The Athletic values Pastrnak currently at 13.1m this season, and Pettersson at 10.9m. Obviously The Athletic is not the be all end all, and Pastrnak is 2.5 years older, but if you have a better and more objective way of comparing them, I'm all ears. I certainly haven't seen enough of his games to say anything definitive.

 

My initial reaction to Nylander's deal was that it was a bit high, but as with Pastrnak, I haven't seen him play enough to say anything definitive. For what it's worth, The Athletic values him at 10.3m, and Panarin at 11.9m.

 

[Rekker]

22 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

It's out of line because Pettersson is currently nowhere near as good as Mackinnon.

 

I'm simply saying it's not the discount many say it is.

 

What do you mean by Pettersson walking? That we lose him for nothing or we trade him? 

 

Mackinnon wasn't Mackinnon yet at 25 either. I get it, you feel McK is better value than EP. Say your right, who gives a shit. We will never have McK but we have EP so management comes to terms on future perceived value of the player and market for the next eight years. It's absolutely inline with most recent contracts and really, only recent contracts are comparable. 

[43isprime]

1 minute ago, Rekker said:

Mackinnon wasn't Mackinnon yet at 25 either. I get it, you feel McK is better value than EP. Say your right, who gives a shit. We will never have McK but we have EP so management comes to terms on future perceived value of the player and market for the next eight years. It's absolutely inline with most recent contracts and really, only recent contracts are comparable. 

 

MacKinnon had 2 runner ups and 1 finalist for the Hart Trophy prior to turning 26. He obviously hadn't won a Cup by then, but I'd say a player with those credentials would be a proven truly elite player (i.e., one of the best in the league).

 

What I'm trying to get at is that Pettersson's deal may not the team friendly deal many say it is. At best, it's a gamble that he'll live up to it (and hopefully exceed it).

 

Prior to the signing, many were pencilling him in as a back to back 100 pt center. He could of course still get to 100 pts this season, but I'm not sure it's the slam dunk many thought it was earlier in the season.

 

[Rekker]

3 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

MacKinnon had 2 runner ups and 1 finalist for the Hart Trophy prior to turning 26. He obviously hadn't won a Cup by then, but I'd say a player with those credentials would be a proven truly elite player (i.e., one of the best in the league).

 

And EP has a Calder. It's tough to compare the two, different teams, linemates, maturation rate. Pointless really. We have a stud center locked up or a long time at a more than fair contract.