HorvatToBaertschi Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, IBatch said: A tad harsh given he's actually doing ok this year. For a boatful of cash. Horvat also had a good playoff series as a rookie. As far as the bubble goes, he had a great series against St.Louis, the rest was good/mediocre. Good/mediocre was his cross to bear, if things worked out extraordinarily well post 2014. It's valid that there is some worry this team is just a flash in a pan. Won't know until next season. So far aces though. Trading Horvat was a breath of fresh air. Like to see Allvin go on a 2-3 year run of Quin like moves. If he can manage that, be prepared to lose some fan favourites along the way. Harsh, yes. Doing ok? Sure, offensively. He's horrendous in his own zone and doesn't put in any effort. He cheats for offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, IBatch said: A tad harsh given he's actually doing ok this year. For a boatful of cash. Horvat also had a good playoff series as a rookie. As far as the bubble goes, he had a great series against St.Louis, the rest was good/mediocre. Good/mediocre was his cross to bear, if things worked out extraordinarily well post 2014. It's valid that there is some worry this team is just a flash in a pan. Won't know until next season. So far aces though. Trading Horvat was a breath of fresh air. Like to see Allvin go on a 2-3 year run of Quin like moves. If he can manage that, be prepared to lose some fan favourites along the way. Horvat is actually like 10 goals away from matching Henrik Sedin's career total. Pretty impressive but it was time to get his air of leadership out of the room and move on. Quinn... Loved the team he put together but man did we trade away some great ones to make it happen. Snepsts, King Richard, Tanti, Skriko, Barry Pederson, Lidster, Butcher, Dan Quinn was good in his brief time as a Canuck, Rich Sutter, Sandlak. That's just off the top of my head and not including retirements and aging out like Smyl and Reinhart. Complete overhaul from the very good 1989 playoff team to the 1994 version. And complete overhaul from 1982 to 1989 as well...the only commonalities I think were Smyl, Snepsts and Butcher. From 1989 to 1994...maybe just Linden, Adams and McLean. Edited February 29 by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said: Horvat is actually like 10 goals away from matching Henrik Sedin's career total. Pretty impressive but it was time to get his air of leadership out of the room and move on. Quinn... Loved the team he put together but man did we trade away some great ones to make it happen. Snepsts, King Richard, Tanti, Skriko, Barry Pederson, Lidster, Butcher, Dan Quinn was good in his brief time as a Canuck, Rich Sutter, Sandlak. That's just off the top of my head and not including retirements and aging out like Smyl and Reinhart. Complete overhaul from the very good 1989 playoff team to the 1994 version. And complete overhaul from 1982 to 1989 as well...the only commonalities I think were Smyl, Snepsts and Butcher. From 1989 to 1994...maybe just Linden, Adams and McLean. Butcher was tough to see traded. Worked out great for us though. Those 80's teams were full of character guys, that other teams needed and wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 16 hours ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said: Disclaimer, things I am about to say are my opinions and you might not agree with them. This is a forum of discussion and I am just looking at the other side of that discussion. JR and PA have made this team as much of their own as they could. But the truth is the guys leading this team where already here before him (Miller 1st in team scoring and 5th over all league wide. Pettersson 10th overall in league scoring, Hughes 13th overall scoring and 1st in defense scoring league overall. Boeser 1st in team goals and 7th overall. All acquired by Benning not the current management) JR and PA acquisitions 1st give credit where credit is due they brought in Tocchet as their coach. Some of the success I contribute to his coaching style of accountability and and some of the success I contribute to the players themselves maturing and coming into their prime. I defiantly have to credit Tocchet on getting our PK out of the league basement. 2nd, I'm going to look at the 5 biggest moves this Management has made so far in terms of 2 trades and 3 signings Let's start with the Miller signing. IMO this signing has been and will be good going forward. Miller is 1 of if not the best value contracts in the league as of today. Which leads us to the Horvat trade. The Horvat Trade. They Traded Horvat for a 1st and then used the first to get Hronek. IMO this trade has so far turned out well for the Canucks filling a major role on that right side of our defense. JR and PA looked at the team and allocated the Cap they had and made a decisive decision by trading the former Captain to fill a massive hole. This was a great cap allocation decision, allocating cap space from the forward spot to defense. This trade will be determined in the future based on what Hronek signs for and what he does for the team in the future. Which leads us to the Lindholm trade and Kuz signing, the Canucks have had a glaring hole in their top 6 forward group for much of the season. This management group thought they had something special in Kuz and EP40 pairing but Kuz didn't live up to the contract JR and PA signed him to. Luckily this Contract didn't sink the ship as it would have in years past due to our top players playing as they have. I contribute a lot of EP40 inconsistent play this season to the lack of effort or skill of his linemates this season. Lindholm was then trade for to get the Canucks out of a bad contract and acquire a top 6 forward for EP40 to play with. It cost the team a 1st round draft pick and 4th possible a 3rd as well. IMO this trade has not worked out as well as I believe the Management wanted. It has not kick started EP40 and the 1st line. I believe it will not in the future as I believe Lindholm's game is more geared to defense over offense (and yet Lindholm is some how currently -5 on this team) and that line is being held together currently by Hoglander play with EP40 (another of Benning's players). The good part of this trade is that they did remove the last year of Kuz's contract and Lindholm is not signed past this season. Is that worth a 1st and/or 4th/ 3rd I say no unless we win the Cup. Lastly we don't just have 1 glaring hole in our top 6 we have 2 and this is directly the result of JR and PA signing his name is Mikheyev and his cap hit is $4.75 million the worst part is he is signed for 2 more years and has a M-NTC. So far he has 10 goals and averaging only 14.25 mins a game. The worst part is people are already making the excuse at least he is good defensively sounds to me like "he is good at doing the little things" argument. Final thoughts, This Management in the time that it has been here has done some good things but they are not as flawless as some would have you believe. This management has cost this team valuable cap space in a player whose cap hit is $4.75 million and is trending in the wrong direction which gets worse because he has 2 years left on that contract and a M-NTC at this point we are stuck with him or will have to pay a huge price in assets to ride ourselves from him. Which is problematic because the Canucks just had to pay a steep price to rid themselves of Kuz's contract and acquired a guy who doesn't seem to be helping fix the issues the Canucks have. Of coarse time will tell how things will unfold and all of these issues won't matter if the Canucks win a Cup this year. But if they don't there will be much to watch from this management group and I believe the good will they have come to earn could deteriorate just as quickly as it came if they begin to repeat the same mistakes of the past Management group and the Canucks go into years of re-tooling this time making the playoffs but with no success to show for it. Not sure that the current management group is being labeled as flawless by anyone, the ability, vision, and follow through to this point would lead most to believe this management group is quite capable and doing a lot of the right things. Management has given much insight into their processes and how the team works from top to bottom, one aspect of this is the coaches develop their plan on the ice and make requests and recommendations for the type of players they need to convert their plans to fruition. I say this because Kuzmenko for example was playing well in a low to no standard of coaching ( this has been echoed by players under Boudreau most recently JT Miller ) and produced offensively. After Tocchet began to implement his vision as coach this year Kuzmenko showed while he is skilled he doesn't bring the type of game required to play to the standard that is now implemented here. Management have been very fluid in being flexible to the team's needs. Which brings us to the Lindholm / Kuzmenko trade, Vancouver brought in a legit top six offensively gifted player with an extremely dependable 200 foot and defensive game. The team and coaches one would have to imagine are thrilled he is a Canuck, he was not brought in to kick start Pettersson but to add to the group. Mikheyev, the Canucks did pay UFA pricing to bring him to the club at 4.75m per, he is not trending downward as he is on pace for a career year. He is very reliable defensively, has shown to have much stronger, faster skating in past and coming off his injury should regain or come close to regaining that form. It takes time. He is producing offensively above his average pace in his career. Maybe some need to see his production is similar to that of Jannik Hansen when he played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman955 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Where would we be if not for present day management? Everyone knew we needed a team direction change. We have this in spades. The moves made have us where we are today. Are they finished with adding , we will see. Given the fact that we have an opportunity for our future to be even stronger. Sad they came into this situation when they were needed earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Here is my take, we shouldn't panic if every move doesn't pan out. The truth is that we just went through tough stretch, more road games than home games and more compact schedule than other teams. The schedule starts to lighten up and they should recover from a bad stretch and find their legs again with more practices. It doesn't happen overnight and it takes time. They should start feeling better about their game as soon as next week even it's on road. What JR and PA has done is an amazing job with just one small mistake; they shouldn't have made a trade for the sake of making trades. Lindholm was having a down year shouldn't expect him to flip the switch on to what he once was. Kuzmenka also had a down year and is unproven in NHL level. Chemistry is a big thing and he does have a chemistry and it seems to be lost for good. Once Soucy comes back, they will be much better and he is kind of tied to their hot streak and once he was injured, their game seemed off for whatever reason. I couldn't pinpoint on what it is but seemed to be one extra goal against seems to be a huge difference during their cold streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) No matter how it's spun, the Hronek trade, we won that. He's exactly what people were crying for on our blueline for months. We have our top defensive pair set. We got what we were wanting, asking for, and to great success. He completely elevated our blueline and allowed Hughes to become the player we knew he could become. As for the money concerns and re-signing, all top teams make D a priority and are paying for top defensive duos. The Canucks won't be doing anything other than what's within the framework of top teams and what they are doing. That's what top teams and winners do. The Avs certainly aren't cheaping out on Makar and Toes. The real challenge isn't Hronek, it's not recklessly overpaying in the rest of the D. And it's a good thing Myers $6 mill is off the books. We can allocate that better. Hronek is a key piece to our success now and in the future. We have the necessary pieces to win with our top D duo. You don't break that up. As for Lindholm, it's way too early. He was acquired early for a reason and management is well aware that there's an adjustment period. Tocchet even echoed and mentioned this today in the pre-game. Also ... Lindholm's fit with the team comes on the heels of the All Star Break, injuries, and the beginning of our slump. No wonder he hasn't found his footing ... also given Tocchet's attempts to line juggle and get guys going. It's way too early to be saying Lindholm hasn't worked. He's a hell of a player that brings a much more effective 200 ft game Obviously our management isn't perfect and flaws are inevitable but ... We're exactly where we need to be in our window to win and this management has walked their talk and done a remarkable job in aligning the organization, developing, acquiring better players, and turning this team around. Edited March 1 by Dr. Crossbar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aquaman Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Kuzmenko was a healthy scratch last time the Flames played haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 15 hours ago, The Aquaman said: Kuzmenko was a healthy scratch last time the Flames played haha. He's not healthy at all. Per multiple sources: he's fighting off some major virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aquaman Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 hours ago, PureQuickness said: He's not healthy at all. Per multiple sources: he's fighting off some major virus. Hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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