Vaccine thread

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Perhaps young people don't realize how vaccines have saved lives.  we older people defiantly know.

Oh well.

So do we let all the young people die? Doesn't sound like a model for a successful country moving forward..

My point is they need to explain it better and do it in a way where the story isn't constantly changing or make it clear to people about the story may constantly change. 

 

One would have thought a global pandemic would have brought the understanding of vaccines closer to home. However, it's done the opposite in my opinion and it's pushed people away from vaccines.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

And I think what you're saying is very compelling. However, do you think the average citizen is aware of this? So maybe that should be part of the message. Hey be on board. Things may change from day to day or month to month. I just know that I've heard from a number of people that have said they would never trust another vaccine again because they were told get it and they wouldn't be locked down. That wasn't true. They were told they wouldn't get coronavirus. That wasn't true. My point is just try and get people to understand the importance of it. Does that mean maybe teach it in school? I mean vaccination has saved how many lives over the decades, but yet I don't think the average person is aware of any of this. Admittedly, I don't think I was pre 2020

 

So there's a lot of things here. I think one key thing that happened was no one expected health professionals to be challenged and dismissed by social media to the degree it was, I think it caught them off guard and unprepared to some degree on how to react to that. It was pretty unprecedented.

 

The media did a terrible job on describing the vaccine. No one said you wouldn't get covid. The high 90% protection numbers were that you wouldn't get severe covid. Thats what the initial studies showed (can't remember the exact number of patients but in the 10's of thousands in the initial trials for each vaccine). But that didn't stop misleading stories. 

 

But even when you have 10's of thousands of vaccine trial participants you can get a few more bad reactions out in public, which sadly did happen to a few folks, and the media again went crazy on it making it seem like you have a high risk of a devastating reaction, or built up an unreasonable fear of it when compared to your risk of covid. 

 

I don't know how you rebuild the trust tbh. I blame social media and the MAGA folks to a large degree far more than the health professionals who I think unfairly had a new additional job dealing with social media disinformation that I guess they underestimated? I'm not sure even if they knew it was coming that they could have stopped the disinformation.

 

 

[Salacious Crumb]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So there's a lot of things here. I think one key thing that happened was no one expected health professionals to be challenged and dismissed by social media to the degree it was, I think it caught them off guard and unprepared to some degree on how to react to that. It was pretty unprecedented.

 

The media did a terrible job on describing the vaccine. No one said you wouldn't get covid. The high 90% protection numbers were that you wouldn't get severe covid. Thats what the initial studies showed (can't remember the exact number of patients but in the 10's of thousands in the initial trials for each vaccine). But that didn't stop misleading stories. 

 

But even when you have 10's of thousands of vaccine trial participants you can get a few more bad reactions out in public, which sadly did happen to a few folks, and the media again went crazy on it making it seem like you have a high risk of a devastating reaction, or built up an unreasonable fear of it when compared to your risk of covid. 

 

I don't know how you rebuild the trust tbh. I blame social media and the MAGA folks to a large degree far more than the health professionals who I think unfairly had a new additional job dealing with social media disinformation that I guess they underestimated? I'm not sure even if they knew it was coming that they could have stopped the disinformation.

 

 

How many Americans will take Ozempic

and risk stomach paralysis but won’t get a vaccine because they heard a friend of a friend of a friend had a reaction to it?

[The Lock]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So there's a lot of things here. I think one key thing that happened was no one expected health professionals to be challenged and dismissed by social media to the degree it was, I think it caught them off guard and unprepared to some degree on how to react to that. It was pretty unprecedented.

 

The media did a terrible job on describing the vaccine. No one said you wouldn't get covid. The high 90% protection numbers were that you wouldn't get severe covid. Thats what the initial studies showed (can't remember the exact number of patients but in the 10's of thousands in the initial trials for each vaccine). But that didn't stop misleading stories. 

 

But even when you have 10's of thousands of vaccine trial participants you can get a few more bad reactions out in public, which sadly did happen to a few folks, and the media again went crazy on it making it seem like you have a high risk of a devastating reaction, or built up an unreasonable fear of it when compared to your risk of covid. 

 

I don't know how you rebuild the trust tbh. I blame social media and the MAGA folks to a large degree far more than the health professionals who I think unfairly had a new additional job dealing with social media disinformation that I guess they underestimated? I'm not sure even if they knew it was coming that they could have stopped the disinformation.

 

Yeah, I really do feel the government botched things when it came to getting everyone on board. Just bad messaging along with sudden weird changes at times. I remember them suddenly allowing parties to 10pm, as if that's going to reduce the spread of covid. Aside from maybe the late night clubs, It probably would have been spread by then. Even if there was logic towards 10pm... it certainly wasn't told to the people who care about it. lol

Edited October 12, 2023 by The Lock

[Playoff Beered]

[Johngould21]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

So there's a lot of things here. I think one key thing that happened was no one expected health professionals to be challenged and dismissed by social media to the degree it was, I think it caught them off guard and unprepared to some degree on how to react to that. It was pretty unprecedented.

 

The media did a terrible job on describing the vaccine. No one said you wouldn't get covid. The high 90% protection numbers were that you wouldn't get severe covid. Thats what the initial studies showed (can't remember the exact number of patients but in the 10's of thousands in the initial trials for each vaccine). But that didn't stop misleading stories. 

 

But even when you have 10's of thousands of vaccine trial participants you can get a few more bad reactions out in public, which sadly did happen to a few folks, and the media again went crazy on it making it seem like you have a high risk of a devastating reaction, or built up an unreasonable fear of it when compared to your risk of covid. 

 

I don't know how you rebuild the trust tbh. I blame social media and the MAGA folks to a large degree far more than the health professionals who I think unfairly had a new additional job dealing with social media disinformation that I guess they underestimated? I'm not sure even if they knew it was coming that they could have stopped the disinformation.

 

 

 I might add, some of the comments on fb, towards the health professionals, Dr Henry, and Adrian Dix are bordering on incitement. I've seen stuff like, "hang the **tch", and worse. Most of these comments are coming from the Interior, where the population isn't nearly what it is in the Lower Mainland. 4 of the highrises in my neighbourhood have more people than my hometown has. I'll gladly take the chills and a bit of a headache, which was remedied by ibuprophen, over a respirator.

Yes, I got Covid between my 3rd and 4th vaccines, but, I also had no reason to go to the doctor, much less a hospital.

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Salacious Crumb said:

How many Americans will take Ozempic

and risk stomach paralysis but won’t get a vaccine because they heard a friend of a friend of a friend had a reaction to it?

 

yeah thats such a sad example too. People can really get hurt by that drug, and for what? not doing a usual diet? (not counting the folks that actually need it)

10 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

Yeah, I really do feel the government botched things when it came to getting everyone on board. Just bad messaging along with sudden weird changes at times. I remember them suddenly allowing parties to 10pm, as if that's going to reduce the spread of covid. Aside from maybe the late night clubs, It probably would have been spread by then. Even if there was logic towards 10pm... it certainly wasn't told to the people who care about it. lol

 

I understand what they were trying to do. I think they feared people rejecting self quarantine outright so tried to come up with some ideas on the fly to allow some things. It was easy to get lost in it. 

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yeah thats such a sad example too. People can really get hurt by that drug, and for what? not doing a usual diet? (not counting the folks that actually need it)

 

I understand what they were trying to do. I think they feared people rejecting self quarantine outright so tried to come up with some ideas on the fly to allow some things. It was easy to get lost in it. 

But you work in health care and have for much of your career. So for the rest of the folks that don't you can understand the confusion I would think?

[Johngould21]

13 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So do we let all the young people die? Doesn't sound like a model for a successful country moving forward..

My point is they need to explain it better and do it in a way where the story isn't constantly changing or make it clear to people about the story may constantly change. 

 

One would have thought a global pandemic would have brought the understanding of vaccines closer to home. However, it's done the opposite in my opinion and it's pushed people away from vaccines.

At the first outset, the goalposts were moving quickly. Not one Country in the Western World reacted to the virus the way they should have, and that's if there was any type of a binder to work from. No one had one! Mix in the tRumps of the world, the Bolassarno's, the British PM whose name escapes me, Putin, the denial from China that they didn't want to share with the world. 

I was proud of the job that Trudeau federally, Horgan and Dix Provincially did for us in Canada. Our health minister and top doctor couldn't have done more, with the TV questions, video conferences with the opposition health critic, who was coordinating Interior health. People ask what would a Conservative gov't under Harper, Scheer, PP, or any of the recent CPC leaders have done. Look what Jason Kenney did to Alberta during that time. He didn't want to shut anything down. Thus, we get the Trucker Convoy idiots.

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

At the first outset, the goalposts were moving quickly. Not one Country in the Western World reacted to the virus the way they should have, and that's if there was any type of a binder to work from. No one had one! Mix in the tRumps of the world, the Bolassarno's, the British PM whose name escapes me, Putin, the denial from China that they didn't want to share with the world. 

I was proud of the job that Trudeau federally, Horgan and Dix Provincially did for us in Canada. Our health minister and top doctor couldn't have done more, with the TV questions, video conferences with the opposition health critic, who was coordinating Interior health. People ask what would a Conservative gov't under Harper, Scheer, PP, or any of the recent CPC leaders have done. Look what Jason Kenney did to Alberta during that time. He didn't want to shut anything down. Thus, we get the Trucker Convoy idiots.

I do think you're lumping all conservatives together and that doesn't help your argument. Boris Johnson was very pro lockdowns. It's just like our politicians here. He himself violated all the rules. But the same thing with the health minister federally she was flying back and forth to Vancouver Island. All parties had members that were flying traveling going to different countries. It's ridiculous and then they told everybody stay home. This is how bad it is. Get vaccinated. This is how bad it is. You can't blame people for not trusting government. 

 

And your Vladimir Putin comment doesn't even make sense that guy still today is paranoid of coronavirus. In fact, I think it was Russia that had the first vaccine made.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Ryan Strome

[Bob Long]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

But you work in health care and have for much of your career. So for the rest of the folks that don't you can understand the confusion I would think?

 

oh for sure. I had to check multiple sources at times, having to deal with elderly parents during this, as well as my family. 

 

What did/does worry me though is the equivalence that seems to have emerged between information from someone like Dr. Henry, and someone's Facebook group. Thats really concerning. And then there's all the Trump-Fauci stuff and all the other strange shit that came with that.

 

I think people like Putin and other groups that spread disinformation are having a good laugh tbh. By sowing so much disinformation he has really helped to divide politics in the US and to a large degree up here. 

 

I guess I'd ask someone that was hesitant, why? what would Dr. Henry e.g., have to gain by providing advice? what would some other political leader or group have to gain by making someone doubt information? 

 

I can understand if a person looked at the covid risk numbers, then looked at the vaccine risk, still wasn't comfortable and still said you know what I'll just be a shut in and deal with it that way. 

 

What I can't understand are the people that got militant about hassling people who did get vaccinated, I mean why do that?

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

oh for sure. I had to check multiple sources at times, having to deal with elderly parents during this, as well as my family. 

 

What did/does worry me though is the equivalence that seems to have emerged between information from someone like Dr. Henry, and someone's Facebook group. Thats really concerning. And then there's all the Trump-Fauci stuff and all the other strange shit that came with that.

 

I think people like Putin and other groups that spread disinformation are having a good laugh tbh. By sowing so much disinformation he has really helped to divide politics in the US and to a large degree up here. 

 

I guess I'd ask someone that was hesitant, why? what would Dr. Henry e.g., have to gain by providing advice? what would some other political leader or group have to gain by making someone doubt information? 

 

I can understand if a person looked at the covid risk numbers, then looked at the vaccine risk, still wasn't comfortable and still said you know what I'll just be a shut in and deal with it that way. 

 

What I can't understand are the people that got militant about hassling people who did get vaccinated, I mean why do that?

Thanks! I think that was a great post. I do agree with you and I tell everybody that somewhat of what I call a conspiracy theorist about it. Why is it that every leader on the planet had lockdowns was wanting vaccines because Putin doesn't get along with the US. Canada doesn't get along with Iran. China doesn't get along with the US. India doesn't get along with China. You got my point right? Why would everybody be doing the same thing if it wasn't real that's how I look at it. 

 

But really my point I'm trying to make and I won't go back and forth on it is just a concern that this virus had such a low death rate and nobody trusts health professionals or government anymore. What happens when we get the big one that kills 10 or 20% and people don't get vaccinated?

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

 

And your Vladimir Putin comment doesn't even make sense that guy still today is paranoid of coronavirus. In fact, I think it was Russia that had the first vaccine made.

 

actually I think it does. He'll do anything to divide the US, and covid disinformation on twitter from Russia was a major issue.

 

That sputnik vaccine was trash though. 

[Satchmo]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

But you work in health care and have for much of your career. So for the rest of the folks that don't you can understand the confusion I would think?

I have never worked in health care but still understood how messages changed as knowledge grew. 

 

I agree that a few social distancing decisions were ill timed and/or a bit sketchy.

 

Still, it must have been bloody hard work for those in health care and government.  This was a novel (meaning brand new) virus.  I give them all high passing grades.

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

actually I think it does. He'll do anything to divide the US, and covid disinformation on twitter from Russia was a major issue.

 

That sputnik vaccine was trash though. 

Okay, admittedly maybe I'm missing something but I remember seeing Putin sitting at like 40 ft long tables and would never meet with even as closest ministers or whatever they call them over there because of fear of covid. Sure. One can say Trump or balsorano were down playing it but I certainly didn't think Putin was from all the photos and videos I seen. Even today he's hesitant to get close to people

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

What happens when we get the big one that kills 10 or 20% and people don't get vaccinated?

 

its going to be a very very sad time where we lose a lot of people, I think thats probably unavoidable now. 

 

My hope now is maybe something emerges out of AI where we can actually know what information is validated to be true. Until we have that, I think we're kind of screwed. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I have never worked in health care but still understood how messages changed as knowledge grew. 

 

I agree that a few social distancing decisions were ill timed and/or a bit sketchy.

 

Still, it must have been bloody hard work for those in health care and government.  This was a novel (meaning brand new) virus.  I give them all high passing grades.

 

I know what novel means just because I live in Alberta hey..

 

My wife is in healthcare and yes I will give them passing grades but I will also recognize the message wasn't delivered well and you are right it was new. They were struggling. They were changing but it doesn't change the point people started asking themselves. This doesn't make sense. So if they are doing that that means the message they are hearing isn't making sense or it isn't being delivered well in my opinion anyways.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Okay, admittedly maybe I'm missing something but I remember seeing Putin sitting at like 40 ft long tables and would never meet with even as closest ministers or whatever they call them over there because of fear of covid. Sure. One can say Trump or balsorano were down playing it but I certainly didn't think Putin was from all the photos and videos I seen. Even today he's hesitant to get close to people

 

oh Pooty will take care of himself, don't doubt that. But he loves to mess with the US and is a master of disinformation. 

 

I mean look at the stooges in the US congress that actually openly support him. Its nuts. 

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

I know what novel means just because I live in Alberta hey..

 

My wife is in healthcare and yes I will give them passing grades but I will also recognize the message wasn't delivered well and you are right it was new. They were struggling. They were changing but it doesn't change the point people started asking themselves. This doesn't make sense. So if they are doing that that means the message they are hearing isn't making sense or it isn't being delivered well in my opinion anyways.

Well, to my surprise, I think we are disagreeing on this a bit.  

[Johngould21]

6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I do think you're lumping all conservatives together and that doesn't help your argument. Boris Johnson was very pro lockdowns. It's just like our politicians here. He himself violated all the rules. But the same thing with the health minister federally she was flying back and forth to Vancouver Island. All parties had members that were flying traveling going to different countries. It's ridiculous and then they told everybody stay home. This is how bad it is. Get vaccinated. This is how bad it is. You can't blame people for not trusting government. 

 

And your Vladimir Putin comment doesn't even make sense that guy still today is paranoid of coronavirus. In fact, I think it was Russia that had the first vaccine made.

Putin’s vaccine, would you take it? China’s? The people in Hong Kong weren’t taking the vaccine made in China, as many had very bad reactions. My wife’s cousin lives in HK, and she didn’t trust it. Her husband is a gynaecologist, and neither did he.
In Alberta those politicians were Jason Kenney’s cabinet ministers, one resigned no?

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Johngould21 said:

Putin’s vaccine, would you take it? China’s? The people in Hong Kong weren’t taking the vaccine made in China, as many had very bad reactions. My wife’s cousin lives in HK, and she didn’t trust it. Her husband is a gynaecologist, and neither did he.
In Alberta those politicians were Jason Kenney’s cabinet ministers, one resigned no?

So considering I didn't take any coronavirus vaccine, I think you can make your mind up that I didn't really trust any of them. Secondly, what you are saying about Alberta again your lumping in conservatives but you aren't wrong. There was a bunch of Alberta politicians that were flying around, but again, the health minister in Ottawa who is a liberal was flying back and forth to British Columbia so it wasn't just a conservative thing. All party members were violating the rules. If you don't want to admit the facts, there's no point of having this conversation. Also, we are kind of getting off the topic I was trying to have which was how people seem to be turning away from vaccination rather than moving towards it and I think the booster numbers are a telltale sign of that.

[the destroyer of worlds]

What gets me is that TRUMP can't even really campaign on a major success of his administration.

 

Operation Warp Speed.

 

Whenever he brings up vaccines during his rallies, there are audible boos.  I know for sure it happened in a rally in Alabama, and another time when he shared the stage with Papa Bear Bill O'Reilly.  

It should be a slam dunk for him, but because of how many QAnon, tinfoil hatters are in team MAGA, it rarely gets mentioned.

[Ryan Strome]

7 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

What gets me is that TRUMP can't even really campaign on a major success of his administration.

 

Operation Warp Speed.

 

Whenever he brings up vaccines during his rallies, there are audible boos.  I know for sure it happened in a rally in Alabama, and another time when he shared the stage with Papa Bear Bill O'Reilly.  

It should be a slam dunk for him, but because of how many QAnon, tinfoil hatters are in team MAGA, it rarely gets mentioned.

You know, just a couple weeks ago I was reading a story and of course it came from anonymous sources so I have no idea if it's accurate or if anybody else is covered it. And admittedly I don't really follow too much news, especially down in the states anymore, but apparently they were saying he was quite close to death when he had covid-19.

[Bob Long]

21 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So considering I didn't take any coronavirus vaccine, I think you can make your mind up that I didn't really trust any of them. Secondly, what you are saying about Alberta again your lumping in conservatives but you aren't wrong. There was a bunch of Alberta politicians that were flying around, 

 

Lots of bad behaviour to go around 

21 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

how people seem to be turning away from vaccination rather than moving towards it and I think the booster numbers are a telltale sign of that.

 

I think part of this is the messaging that the current strains are not as severe plays into it. Not sure if that holds going forward we'll have to see.

[The Arrogant Worms]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

So do we let all the young people die? Doesn't sound like a model for a successful country moving forward..

My point is they need to explain it better and do it in a way where the story isn't constantly changing or make it clear to people about the story may constantly change. 

 

One would have thought a global pandemic would have brought the understanding of vaccines closer to home. However, it's done the opposite in my opinion and it's pushed people away from vaccines.

That wasn't my point.

The scary part is some parents are afraid to give their kids any vaccines.