Vaccine thread

[The Arrogant Worms]

Braid: UCP's public-health policy trumpets individualism over common good

 

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-25

[Johngould21]

2 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Braid: UCP's public-health policy trumpets individualism over common good

 

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-25

What else do you expect?

[Elias Pettersson]

19 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

I had a friend who was mistrustful of modern medical science. She preferred alternative/holistic medicine, and when she got sick she went for the alternative first. She eventually accepted real medical treatment, but too late. She didn't have Covid, she had breast cancer, and she died from it.

 

Anybody who really thinks that some online research makes you more knowledgeable than intelligent medical/scientific professionals who spend their whole lives learning their field, good luck to you, you will need it.

 

You do know that when you do online research you can actually research what medical experts are saying in their respective fields right?  You do also know that actual doctors use Google to research information that they don't have readily available and on hand, right?   You can literally research medical journals from the top doctors in the US and abroad by using Google.  Everything is online and you can even get subscriptions to these journals that are written by the top doctors in the world.

 

I know lots of people who have died from cancer, even though they listened to their doctor.  It's not like if you listen to your doctor that you are guaranteed to live.  My cousin's ex-girlfriend had brain cancer at 24.  She wasn't expected to live more than 5 years.  She lived until she was 47.  She did all of her own research and travelled extensively to the US in order to get treatment from US doctors on new methods to treat cancer that weren't available in Canada.  She went to Chicago, New York and Dallas.  Her own research extended her life by 20 years.  But according to you she should have just listened to her medical professionals in Vancouver who told her she would be dead by age 30.

 

Nobody ever said that doing your own research makes you smarter than medical professionals, those are your words not anyone else's.  I literally cured my kidney stones by simply doing my own online research, but according to you I should have simply elected to have surgery because my medical expert told me to do so.  

 

I don't jump off a bridge just because some expert tells me to do so.  I research it first and then decide if I want to jump.  My mother blindly trusted her medical professionals and got pumped up with so many drugs she became a walking zombie and spent her last years in and out of the hospital every other week.

 

When I had my original diagnosis for my kidney stones and all the pain that went with it, my doctor gave me a bunch of Percocet for the pain.  I took one and ended up in emergency with atrial fibrillation and almost died, they had to shock me and restart my heart.  That's how I eventually found out I had an aortic aneurysm.  My medical professional told me that the Percocet was not related to the atrial fibrillation, that it was just a coincidence.  My online research told me otherwise.  You can Google it yourself.  Atrial fibrillation is a side effect of taking Percocet, or any opioid for that matter.  That was the last time I ever trusted a doctor blindly...

 

Opioids can affect your heart's electrical activity. One reason is that opioids change the way you breathe while you sleep. This could alter your heart rate or increase the likelihood of arrhythmias such as atrial fibrillation. May 28, 2023

Edited October 13, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Johngould21]

15 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I do think you're lumping all conservatives together and that doesn't help your argument. Boris Johnson was very pro lockdowns. It's just like our politicians here. He himself violated all the rules. But the same thing with the health minister federally she was flying back and forth to Vancouver Island. All parties had members that were flying traveling going to different countries. It's ridiculous and then they told everybody stay home. This is how bad it is. Get vaccinated. This is how bad it is. You can't blame people for not trusting government. 

 

And your Vladimir Putin comment doesn't even make sense that guy still today is paranoid of coronavirus. In fact, I think it was Russia that had the first vaccine made.

Didn't Boris Johnson, say something like, "it's just a flu", I'm only paraphrasing, but, he wasn't very "pro" lockdown at the outset.

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

You do know that when you do online research you can actually research what medical experts are saying in their respective fields right?  You do also know that actual doctors use Google to research information that they don't have readily available and on hand, right?   You can literally research medical journals from the top doctors in the US and abroad by using Google.  Everything is online and you can even get subscriptions to these journals that are written by the top doctors in the world.

 

I know lots of people who have died from cancer, even though they listened to their doctor.  It's not like if you listen to your doctor that you are guaranteed to live.  My cousin's ex-girlfriend had brain cancer at 24.  She wasn't expected to live more than 5 years.  She lived until she was 47.  She did all of her own research and travelled extensively to the US in order to get treatment from US doctors on new methods to treat cancer that weren't available in Canada.  She went to Chicago, New York and Dallas.  Her own research extended her life by 20 years.  But according to you she should have just listened to her medical professionals in Vancouver who told her she would be dead by age 30.

 

Nobody ever said that doing your own research makes you smarter than medical professionals, those are your words not anyone else's.  I literally cured my kidney stones by simply doing my own online research, but according to you I should have simply elected to have surgery because my medical expert told me to do so.  

 

I don't jump off a bridge just because some expert tells me to do so.  I research it first and then decide if I want to jump.  My mother blindly trusted her medical professionals and got pumped up with so many drugs she became a walking zombie and spent her last years in and out of the hospital every other week.

 

When I had my original diagnosis for my kidney stones and all the pain that went with it, my doctor gave me a bunch of Percocet for the pain.  I took one and ended up in emergency with atrial fibrillation and almost died, they had to shock me and restart my heart.  That's how I eventually found out I had an aortic aneurysm.  My medical professional told me that the Percocet was not related to the atrial fibrillation, that it was just a coincidence.  My online research told me otherwise.  You can Google it yourself.  Atrial fibrillation is a side effect of taking Percocet, or any opioid for that matter.  That was the last time I ever trusted a doctor blindly...

 

Opioids can affect your heart's electrical activity. One reason is that opioids change the way you breathe while you sleep. This could alter your heart rate or increase the likelihood of arrhythmias such as atrial fibrillation. May 28, 2023

So, you're saying I should call you about my next medical question, instead of my doctor? Watch the disclaimers for any medical drug on US TV, the disclaimers are worse than the supposed illness. I'll call my doctor not the internet.

[Ryan Strome]

14 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Braid: UCP's public-health policy trumpets individualism over common good

 

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-25

 

11 hours ago, Johngould21 said:

What else do you expect?

We seem to have a thread full of you guys one upping each other by bragging about getting another covid shot, but I actually agree with what the premier had to say here. Every other vaccine people just take and don't jump into the internet world to brag about how often they are going in. Who cares if she's vaccinated or not. That's nobody's business but hers and her doctors.

 

 

this is something I should talk about with my doctor and not media.”

Edited October 13, 2023 by Ryan Strome

[Bob Long]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

You do know that when you do online research you can actually research what medical experts are saying in their respective fields right?  You do also know that actual doctors use Google to research information that they don't have readily available and on hand, right?   You can literally research medical journals from the top doctors in the US and abroad by using Google.  Everything is online and you can even get subscriptions to these journals that are written by the top doctors in the world.

 

I know lots of people who have died from cancer, even though they listened to their doctor.  It's not like if you listen to your doctor that you are guaranteed to live.  My cousin's ex-girlfriend had brain cancer at 24.  She wasn't expected to live more than 5 years.  She lived until she was 47.  She did all of her own research and travelled extensively to the US in order to get treatment from US doctors on new methods to treat cancer that weren't available in Canada.  She went to Chicago, New York and Dallas.  Her own research extended her life by 20 years.  But according to you she should have just listened to her medical professionals in Vancouver who told her she would be dead by age 30.

 

Nobody ever said that doing your own research makes you smarter than medical professionals, those are your words not anyone else's.  I literally cured my kidney stones by simply doing my own online research, but according to you I should have simply elected to have surgery because my medical expert told me to do so.  

 

I don't jump off a bridge just because some expert tells me to do so.  I research it first and then decide if I want to jump.  My mother blindly trusted her medical professionals and got pumped up with so many drugs she became a walking zombie and spent her last years in and out of the hospital every other week.

 

When I had my original diagnosis for my kidney stones and all the pain that went with it, my doctor gave me a bunch of Percocet for the pain.  I took one and ended up in emergency with atrial fibrillation and almost died, they had to shock me and restart my heart.  That's how I eventually found out I had an aortic aneurysm.  My medical professional told me that the Percocet was not related to the atrial fibrillation, that it was just a coincidence.  My online research told me otherwise.  You can Google it yourself.  Atrial fibrillation is a side effect of taking Percocet, or any opioid for that matter.  That was the last time I ever trusted a doctor blindly...

 

Opioids can affect your heart's electrical activity. One reason is that opioids change the way you breathe while you sleep. This could alter your heart rate or increase the likelihood of arrhythmias such as atrial fibrillation. May 28, 2023

 

just because you can find and read a paper, it doesn't give you the same insight as an experienced expert. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Johngould21 said:

Didn't Boris Johnson, say something like, "it's just a flu", I'm only paraphrasing, but, he wasn't very "pro" lockdown at the outset.

So, you're saying I should call you about my next medical question, instead of my doctor? Watch the disclaimers for any medical drug on US TV, the disclaimers are worse than the supposed illness. I'll call my doctor not the internet.

 

Is that what you took from my post?     Unbelievable...

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Johngould21 said:

Didn't Boris Johnson, say something like, "it's just a flu", I'm only paraphrasing, but, he wasn't very "pro" lockdown at the outset.

So, you're saying I should call you about my next medical question, instead of my doctor? Watch the disclaimers for any medical drug on US TV, the disclaimers are worse than the supposed illness. I'll call my doctor not the internet.

 

I don't understand why people equate access to knowledge they aren't trained to assess, with actual medical experience. I guess this is what drives a lot of the stuff we see online now. 

 

It doesn't matter that you can find a paper on medline if you're not trained to understand it. 

17 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

We seem to have a thread full of you guys one upping each other by bragging about getting another covid shot, but I actually agree with what the premier had to say here. Every other vaccine people just take and don't jump into the internet world to brag about how often they are going in. Who cares if she's vaccinated or not. That's nobody's business but hers and her doctors.

 

 

this is something I should talk about with my doctor and not media.”

 

its a reaction to the nutters that harass people that have got a vaccine, or choose to wear masks. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't understand why people equate access to knowledge they aren't trained to assess, with actual medical experience. I guess this is what drives a lot of the stuff we see online now. 

 

It doesn't matter that you can find a paper on medline if you're not trained to understand it. 

 

its a reaction to the nutters that harass people that have got a vaccine, or choose to wear masks. 

The premier has never done that. In fact, she said shortly after she was elected. If people want to wear masks they can but they won't be forced to.

[Johngould21]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't understand why people equate access to knowledge they aren't trained to assess, with actual medical experience. I guess this is what drives a lot of the stuff we see online now. 

 

It doesn't matter that you can find a paper on medline if you're not trained to understand it. 

exactly. For some reason, my  last two posts were combined, so it seems I was quoting two different posts. My brother in law is one of those that medicates online, that to me is how distrust in the medical field has grown. His answer is just youtube it. 

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Is that what you took from my post?     Unbelievable...

I was combined into posts, so yeah unbelievable.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

The premier has never done that. In fact, she said shortly after she was elected. If people want to wear masks they can but they won't be forced to.

 

no but she has been sympathetic to people that e.g., choose not to be vaccinated and still want to go work in a public setting. So that gets people's backs up. 

 

If people want to make choices that effect them individually, thats great, but when someone says I won't wear a mask, and I'm going to come sit beside you in a movie theatre or restaurant, e.g., yeah people get pissed because now that individual choice is being forced on other people. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

exactly. For some reason, my  last two posts were combined, so it seems I was quoting two different posts. My brother in law is one of those that medicates online, that to me is how distrust in the medical field has grown. His answer is just youtube it. 

I remember years ago I said to my doctor I seen online it could be cancer. He told me don't go online. Everything is cancer!

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

just because you can find and read a paper, it doesn't give you the same insight as an experienced expert. 

 

I can read the papers and do my own research and then when my doctor says he wants to cut me open I can make my own decision based on everything I have been told and read.  It's the same as getting a second opinion.  You don't need a medical degree to know how to read one.  There are advanced technologies that aren't available in Canada for many different treatments including heart disease and cancer.  When I asked my cardiologist about 3-inch incisions for AA surgery, he had no clue what I was talking about.  That's because they don't practice that procedure in Canada so they wouldn't have a clue how it's done...

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

no but she has been sympathetic to people that e.g., choose not to be vaccinated and still want to go work in a public setting. So that gets people's backs up. 

 

If people want to make choices that effect them individually, thats great, but when someone says I won't wear a mask, and I'm going to come sit beside you in a movie theatre or restaurant, e.g., yeah people get pissed because now that individual choice is being forced on other people. 

So couple things here. Alberta allowed  unvaccinated people to work in all fields before she became the premiere. Secondly, I can't speak to British Columbia but from what I've seen in Alberta people get more bothered if somebody sits beside them with a mask on as the assumption is they're likely sick.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

So couple things here. Alberta allowed  unvaccinated people to work in all fields before she became the premiere. Secondly, I can't speak to British Columbia but from what I've seen in

 

 

UCP policy I guess?

 

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

Alberta people get more bothered if somebody sits beside them with a mask on as the assumption is they're likely sick.

 

yikes. That would feel quite hostile to me. 

[Johngould21]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I can read the papers and do my own research and then when my doctor says he wants to cut me open I can make my own decision based on everything I have been told and read.  It's the same as getting a second opinion.  You don't need a medical degree to know how to read one.  There are advanced technologies that aren't available in Canada for many different treatments including heart disease and cancer.  When I asked my cardiologist about 3-inch incisions for AA surgery, he had no clue what I was talking about.  That's because they don't practice that procedure in Canada so they wouldn't have a clue how it's done...

 

OK doc, you're making me want to come to you for all my medical concerns. JFC!

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

UCP policy I guess?

 

 

yikes. That would feel quite hostile to me. 

Yeah JK was still the premier when they allowed all that to happen early in 2022 they allowed it. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you man. I don't hear anything about covid unless I come in this thread. I don't know if you want to say the tail of two provinces but honestly I never hear anything about it. Radio, people, church, anywhere. Never hear anything about it. If there's the odd person in a mask, which I can't even remember the last time I seen somebody wear a mask. Generally, the conversation I hear is that they're likely sick with something.

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I can read the papers and do my own research and then when my doctor says he wants to cut me open I can make my own decision based on everything I have been told and read.  It's the same as getting a second opinion.  You don't need a medical degree to know how to read one.  There are advanced technologies that aren't available in Canada for many different treatments including heart disease and cancer.  When I asked my cardiologist about 3-inch incisions for AA surgery, he had no clue what I was talking about.  That's because they don't practice that procedure in Canada so they wouldn't have a clue how it's done...

 

 

but (I'm assuming) you are not a doctor, so no EP you can't. It really isn't the same as getting a second opinion. Its like saying you play a flight simulator game and think you can take over for your pilot on your next trip. You do not have years of medical practitioner experience. 

 

I'd like to ask you a sensitive question - is some of your views on health driven by your religious beliefs?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Bob Long

[Johngould21]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So couple things here. Alberta allowed  unvaccinated people to work in all fields before she became the premiere. Secondly, I can't speak to British Columbia but from what I've seen in Alberta people get more bothered if somebody sits beside them with a mask on as the assumption is they're likely sick.

So all the medical people in a surgical ward are sick then, cancel my urologists appointment then..

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yeah JK was still the premier when they allowed all that to happen early in 2022 they allowed it. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you man. I don't hear anything about covid unless I come in this thread. I don't know if you want to say the tail of two provinces but honestly I never hear anything about it. Radio, people, church, anywhere. Never hear anything about it. If there's the odd person in a mask, which I can't even remember the last time I seen somebody wear a mask. Generally, the conversation I hear is that they're likely sick with something.

 

yea it definitely could be cultural differences between provinces, or even a bit urban-rural divide. 

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

OK doc, you're making me want to come to you for all my medical concerns. JFC!

 

Hey, I can play hockey and play doctor all at the same time...  

 

Honestly, I know alot of good doctors.  I've talked to many over the years and they gave me good advice.  Unfortunately, my mother's doctor wasn't one of them, so I now take extra precautions with my own health.  I personally don't think there is anything wrong with that, but to each his own...

Edited October 13, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

So all the medical people in a surgical ward are sick then, cancel my urologists appointment then..

Okay man, I'm going to end our interaction together because that's not what I said at all. I mean maybe I wasn't clear enough but I think this is you reaching.

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

yea it definitely could be cultural differences between provinces, or even a bit urban-rural divide. 

Yeah, I don't know. I was at West Edmonton mall about 4 months ago and even there I don't recall seeing many people in masks at all. I'll be honest man. I didn't even realize the infection numbers until I read that article that John posted. I never hear it talked about. I mean, admittedly, I know that it's still exists because I have healthcare professionals in my family, but outside of that you would never know it exists.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Okay man, I'm going to end our interaction together because that's not what I said at all. I mean maybe I wasn't clear enough but I think this is you reaching.

Yeah, I don't know. I was at West Edmonton mall about 4 months ago and even there I don't recall seeing many people in masks at all. I'll be honest man. I didn't even realize the infection numbers until I read that article that John posted. I never hear it talked about. I mean, admittedly, I know that it's still exists because I have healthcare professionals in my family, but outside of that you would never know it exists.

 

hopefully it kind of stays this way and we're done with all the lockdown, etc. stuff. We're going to be dealing with mistrust and disinformation because of all this for a long time.

 

Hell, we even have a person trying to run for US president with his anti-vax views as his cornerstone piece of ideology.  Is that the #1 issue you want a candidate to run on?

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Bob Long

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

but (I'm assuming) you are not a doctor, so no EP you can't. Its really isn't the same as getting a second opinion. Its like saying you play a flight simulator game and think you can take over for your pilot on your next trip. You do not have years of medical practitioner experience. 

 

I'd like to ask you a sensitive question - is some of your views on health driven by your religious beliefs?

 

No, I'm not a doctor.  If you spend the time in reading medical journals then you can at least get a good understanding of certain things.  How do you think I found out about the Fiuggi water and about 3-inch incisions for AA?  It's all on the internet.  I never said to not listen to your doctors, of course you need to listen to them.  

 

Let me give you another example.  My cardiologist gave me a prescription for a blood pressure medication.  I took it home and checked it on the internet.  I found out that it was recalled in Canada for its side effects and replaced with another one.  Sorry, I don't trust these people blindly.  I ended up losing some weight and changing my diet as per my own research and my blood pressure is now below what it should be.  My doctor never told me to lose weight and change my diet.  He only gave me a prescription that was out of date and recalled.  

 

I don't believe a Roman Catholic like me is not supposed to trust doctors, so I don't think my religion has anything to do with it.  It was my experience with my mother that opened my eyes...

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

hopefully it kind of stays this way and we're done with all the lockdown, etc. stuff. We're going to be dealing with mistrust and disinformation because of all this for a long time.

 

Hell, we even have a person trying to run for US president with his anti-vax views as his cornerstone piece of ideology.  Is that the #1 issue you want a candidate to run on?

 

Great post! I'm actually going to make two comments on that. So number one if there has to be lockdowns and masks Smith will likely be gone as premiere. So it will become political because she has repeatedly staunchly said never again Will a child be forced to wear a mask in a school. That is one thing whether you agree with her or not She won't be able to take back as she was so staunch about her support against masking and mass vaccination. She just can't go back on that look what happened to JK!

 

As for Kennedy I do find it strange why he is making it the cornerstone of his campaign. By the time the election happens it will be over 4 years old and most will have forgotten about it as we all want to and yet he will be talking about it as if it's some sort of government Overreach. While he might be right, it just seems like is this really is successful campaign strategy? The country is an enormous debt, has massive inflation, potentially will be funding three different militaries along with their own, and he wants to go on about coronavirus? At this point I don't even think it's votes from the Democrats he will steal but votes from Republicans to be perfectly honest.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Ryan Strome