Vaccine thread

[RupertKBD]

To add further context:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/03/09/fact-check-covid-19-mostly-blame-new-zealands-rise-deaths/11419169002/

 

Quote

"There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccination is causing excess mortality," Michael Baker, a public health professor at the University of Otago in New Zealand, told USA TODAY. "Quite the contrary, high vaccination coverage in New Zealand has prevented many deaths that would have occurred if this virus had circulated before the population had the opportunity to be vaccinated."

 

Not sure if this fact check is related to that same 20% mortality rate claim, but it was the only thing I was able to find.

[Cerridwen]

Latest Covid vaccine in.... just have a sore upper arm and shoulder and can't seem to stay awake. A million things to do for Christmas but here I sit, zombified in front of the Canucks game! Curious to see if I'll stick to the fridge on my way by to the coffee maker and if bluetooth will kick in with my favourite tunes while I'm in front of the sink sans any electronics...

YESSS, CANUCKS!!

[RupertKBD]

10 hours ago, Cerridwen said:

Latest Covid vaccine in.... just have a sore upper arm and shoulder and can't seem to stay awake. A million things to do for Christmas but here I sit, zombified in front of the Canucks game! Curious to see if I'll stick to the fridge on my way by to the coffee maker and if bluetooth will kick in with my favourite tunes while I'm in front of the sink sans any electronics...

YESSS, CANUCKS!!

 

I work in IT and my information is that the vaccine has no effect on Bluetooth function....however, it should increase your WiFi range by a few meters....

 

#smallvictories

[the destroyer of worlds]

2 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I work in IT and my information is that the vaccine has no effect on Bluetooth function....however, it should increase your WiFi range by a few meters....

 

#smallvictories

Well, I'm guessing WiFi 7 is going to activate the vaxx and give you insane range.  Or cause you to drop dead the moment you are exposed to it.  I'm sure the antivaxx crowd knows what will happen as they do their research.

[The Arrogant Worms]

My mother in law and my brother in law have Covid now.

Edited December 15, 2023 by The Arrogant Worms

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/news/health-matters-vaccine-for-melanoma-found-to-reduce-recurrence-death-by-half/vi-AA1lz0Vx?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1856e914be944fc599b0b2e6334832a5&ei=37

A new messenger RNA vaccine developed by Moderna and Merck has been shown to reduce the chance of recurrence or death from melanoma by half after three years when paired with Merck's antibody medication Keytruda. Katherine Ward has this story and more in Health Matters for Dec. 15, 2023. 

--------------------------------------------

video at link.

[AatuD2]

I've missed the previous 30 pages, and the previous forum's last year of discourse.  

 

Question: is it widely accepted now that Covid came from the Wuhan lab that had the partnership with the US government to do research that would've been illegal to perform on US soil? 

 

 

[AatuD2]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:46 AM, The Arrogant Worms said:

My mother in law and my brother in law have Covid now.

 

A lot of people at my work have had it over the last month or two. Hope they recover well! 

 

I've been sick too but neither one of the home Covid tests showed positive so it's probably a regular flu. 

[bishopshodan]

17 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

I've missed the previous 30 pages, and the previous forum's last year of discourse.  

 

Question: is it widely accepted now that Covid came from the Wuhan lab that had the partnership with the US government to do research that would've been illegal to perform on US soil? 

 

 

 

I dont know.

What have you read?

 

From what I remember in the last thread. The funding was from some sort of wider collective and not directly assigned to Wuhan...or something like that. I am sure someone can fill in the details better than me.

[Master Mind]

18 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

I've missed the previous 30 pages, and the previous forum's last year of discourse.  

 

Question: is it widely accepted now that Covid came from the Wuhan lab that had the partnership with the US government to do research that would've been illegal to perform on US soil?

 

Likely depends where you ask.

 

I've found that in-person, more people say they think there's a good chance it came form a lab.

 

But online, especially in a thread like this, the mention of a lab leak is often immediately dismissed.

 

I imagine this is due to the initial censorship on most social medias where the question wasn't allowed to be asked.

[Satchmo]

28 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

I've missed the previous 30 pages, and the previous forum's last year of discourse.  

 

Question: is it widely accepted now that Covid came from the Wuhan lab that had the partnership with the US government to do research that would've been illegal to perform on US soil? 

 

 

No.

[AatuD2]

28 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I dont know.

What have you read?

 

From what I remember in the last thread. The funding was from some sort of wider collective and not directly assigned to Wuhan...or something like that. I am sure someone can fill in the details better than me.

 

USAID was funding research in Wuhan up until 2019 through grants.  Gain of function research was controversial and wasn't allowed to be performed in labs on US soil, but was going on in Wuhan.  

 

Very entertaining Senate hearings on this in the States, but ultimately lots of dancing around with nobody being deemed responsible. 

 

In the end, nobody had any malintent and nothing was done maliciously, except for misleading the public about the origins (and calling people racist along the way for suggesting it). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AatuD2]

48 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

Likely depends where you ask.

 

I've found that in-person, more people say they think there's a good chance it came form a lab.

 

But online, especially in a thread like this, the mention of a lab leak is often immediately dismissed.

 

I imagine this is due to the initial censorship on most social medias where the question wasn't allowed to be asked.

 

Maybe people need to hear that it's okay to both believe in medicine and vaccines in general, but still believe that this virus was man-made. 

 

Our health authorities in fact have rules and reservations about this type of research PRECISELY because something like this could happen (and by all accounts it did). 

[Satchmo]

Just now, AatuD2 said:

 

USAID was funding research in Wuhan up until 2019 through grants.  Gain of function research was controversial and wasn't allowed to be performed in labs on US soil, but was going on in Wuhan.  

 

Very entertaining Senate hearings on this in the States, but ultimately lots of dancing around with nobody being deemed responsible. 

 

In the end, nobody had any malintent and nothing was done maliciously, except for misleading the public about the origins (and calling people racist along the way for suggesting it). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are out to convince people of your point of view there is no better way than to use YouTube videos featuring Jim Jordan.

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, AatuD2 said:

 

Maybe people need to hear that it's okay to both believe in medicine and vaccines in general, but still believe that this virus was man-made. 

 

Our health authorities in fact have rules and reservations about this type of research PRECISELY because something like this could happen (and by all accounts it did). 

All accounts?

 

Nature is perfectly capable of making a virus.   People are perfectly capable of making shit up.

[AatuD2]

4 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

If you are out to convince people of your point of view there is no better way than to use YouTube videos featuring Jim Jordan.

 

Jim Jordan is one of the more level headed Senators out there, agreed. 

 

3 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

All accounts?

 

Nature is perfectly capable of making a virus.   People are perfectly capable of making shit up.

 

Of course nature is capable of it.  

 

However the virus originates in Wuhan, one of the only places that conducts this type of research? You don't find that coincidence a bit too much of a...  coincidence? 

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, AatuD2 said:

 

Jim Jordan is one of the more level headed Senators out there, agreed. 

 

 

Of course nature is capable of it.  

 

However the virus originates in Wuhan, one of the only places that conducts this type of research? You don't find that coincidence a bit too much of a...  coincidence? 

Not sure how serious you are about the state of Jordan's head.

 

Wuhan is just one of many labs that can be found all over the world. 

https://schar.gmu.edu/news/2021-07/new-interactive-map-reveals-where-deadliest-germs-are-studied

 

And yes, I believe in coincidences.  They happen all the time.  

 

I also believe that primitive wet markets in densely populated areas are a great way to transmit a naturally occurring virus.

 

I also believe that there is a chance that Covid 19 was man made and escaped from a lab.  I, and I would say most, - despite who you may be speaking or listening to - will need more than an interesting coincidence to be convinced.  So far all I've heard are the kinds of stories that people seem to like so much.   

 

 

[RupertKBD]

26 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

Jim Jordan is one of the more level headed Senators out there, agreed.

 

Just wow....

 

....and Boebert and MTG are two of the smartest, amirite?

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Just wow....

 

....and Boebert and MTG are two of the smartest, amirite?

Guy couldn't even get Jordan's position right.  To be fair, I'm not sure Jordan can spell house representative.

[the destroyer of worlds]

1 hour ago, AatuD2 said:

I've missed the previous 30 pages, and the previous forum's last year of discourse.  

 

Question: is it widely accepted now that Covid came from the Wuhan lab that had the partnership with the US government to do research that would've been illegal to perform on US soil? 

 

 

 

LOW CONFIDENCE

 

Here is the thing.  The lab in question gets its funding from Chinese taxpayers or 3rd party organizations.  Researchers and research labs have to write up proposals in order to secure funding.  Those proposals can be fairly detailed, down to the types of equipment/techniques that will be used.  Those proposals occur prior to research being conducted.  

 

Then they have to do the research and publish their results.  Again, when they publish they have to indicate what they did and HOW they did it.

 

This means that the researchers at the Chinese lab will have an extensive published record prior to the fall of 2019.  A record of what they were doing and how they were doing it.

 

To "prove" the lab leak thingy, these published reports have to indicate 2 things.

 

1)  That the lab was using essentially identical coronaviruses to the one that started this pandemic.  Sadly, that currently isn't the case.

 

2)  That the manipulations they were using leave no fingerprints.  The manipulations were "clean".  Sadly again, that currently isn't the case.

 

The published record is that they were using techniques that would leave telltale signs that the virus was manipulated.  They were using coronaviruses that could not produce the virus of this pandemic.

 

Want to prove that it was a lab leak.  Provide actual evidence of 1) and 2).  Actual evidence.  Not some YouTube video of grandstanding partisan hack.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

 

LOW CONFIDENCE

 

Here is the thing.  The lab in question gets its funding from Chinese taxpayers or 3rd party organizations.  Researchers and research labs have to write up proposals in order to secure funding.  Those proposals can be fairly detailed, down to the types of equipment/techniques that will be used.  Those proposals occur prior to research being conducted.  

 

Then they have to do the research and publish their results.  Again, when they publish they have to indicate what they did and HOW they did it.

 

This means that the researchers at the Chinese lab will have an extensive published record prior to the fall of 2019.  A record of what they were doing and how they were doing it.

 

To "prove" the lab leak thingy, these published reports have to indicate 2 things.

 

1)  That the lab was using essentially identical coronaviruses to the one that started this pandemic.  Sadly, that currently isn't the case.

 

2)  That the manipulations they were using leave no fingerprints.  The manipulations were "clean".  Sadly again, that currently isn't the case.

 

The published record is that they were using techniques that would leave telltale signs that the virus was manipulated.  They were using coronaviruses that could not produce the virus of this pandemic.

 

Want to prove that it was a lab leak.  Provide actual evidence of 1) and 2).  Actual evidence.  Not some YouTube video of grandstanding partisan hack.

At the end of the day, it's unlikely we'll ever know for sure either way.

[the destroyer of worlds]

Just now, King Heffy said:

At the end of the day, it's unlikely we'll ever know for sure either way.

 

Yup, either way the Chinese messed up and they don't want the rest of the world to know what they knew and when they knew it.  The circumstantial evidence for the lab leak is convenient for the conspiracy mined folks because these folks just cannot accept that things can happen.  These folks must have a cause.  There most be some nefarious plot.  

[RupertKBD]

5 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Yup, either way the Chinese messed up and they don't want the rest of the world to know what they knew and when they knew it.  The circumstantial evidence for the lab leak is convenient for the conspiracy mined folks because these folks just cannot accept that things can happen.  These folks must have a cause.  There most be some nefarious plot.  

 

Agreed. There always has to be someone to blame....unless the obvious someone plays for their team....then it's the fault of the refs (media).

[AatuD2]

32 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Not sure how serious you are about the state of Jordan's head.

 

Wuhan is just one of many labs that can be found all over the world. 

https://schar.gmu.edu/news/2021-07/new-interactive-map-reveals-where-deadliest-germs-are-studied

 

And yes, I believe in coincidences.  They happen all the time.  

 

I also believe that primitive wet markets in densely populated areas are a great way to transmit a naturally occurring virus.

 

I also believe that there is a chance that Covid 19 was man made and escaped from a lab.  I, and I would say most, - despite who you may be speaking or listening to - will need more than an interesting coincidence to be convinced.  So far all I've heard are the kinds of stories that people seem to like so much.   

 

 

 

 

- the virus is said to look to be man made 

- it originates in the area with the lab that performs this type of research

- people responsible for funding this type of research scramble to get their story together and claim ignorance 

 

Too much for me to be a coincidence so we will have to agree to disagree. 

 

Hopefully this reinforces the dangers of this type of research. 

 

As for Jim Jordan, he comes off as very level headed and not the usual gotcha-type of Senator. 

[4petesake]

6 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

 

- the virus is said to look to be man made 

- it originates in the area with the lab that performs this type of research

- people responsible for funding this type of research scramble to get their story together and claim ignorance 

 

Too much for me to be a coincidence so we will have to agree to disagree. 

 

Hopefully this reinforces the dangers of this type of research. 

 

As for Jim Jordan, he comes off as very level headed and not the usual gotcha-type of Senator. 

 

I won’t touch your assessment of the qualities of Jordan with a ten foot pole but I’ll point out that gain of function research with SARS-CoV-2 is still going on in places like Boston University.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2022/10/24/gain-of-function-experiments-at-boston-university-create-a-deadly-new-covid-19-virus-who-thought-this-was-a-good-idea/?sh=2c05a9cb5ca3