Vaccine thread

[4petesake]

12 minutes ago, UncleBen said:

You mean their own results that I posted there in the Dropbox..lol..I know you think your an expert on hockey politics etc etc ..but know when the facts are in front of your face to not just bury your head.The reason I bring this up is so that fools like you don't try and convince others to take the next secret sauce for the next plandemic without asking questions about long term safety and effectiveness which was thrown out the window last time.My nuts are fine by the way ..no MRNA damage to them because I didn't participate in the experiment 

 

 

 

You are conveniently using numbers that include  adverse effects in the placebo group, which incidentally had more deaths than the group that got the vaccine. What’s up with that, eh?
 

 

From the New England Journal of Medicine review of the AZ phase 3 trials -

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2105290
 

 

A similar percentage of participants in each group had a serious adverse event within 28 days after any dose: 119 serious adverse events occurred among 101 participants (0.5%) in the AZD1222 group and 59 events among 53 participants (0.5%) in the placebo group. During the entire trial period, a total of 7 adverse events leading to death occurred in 7 participants in the AZD1222 group, and 9 adverse events leading to 7 deaths occurred in the placebo group. These deaths are described in Table S2. No deaths were considered by investigators to be related to the vaccine or placebo. No deaths related to Covid-19 occurred in the AZD1222 group, and two deaths related to Covid-19 occurred in the placebo group.

[Satchmo]

8 minutes ago, UncleBen said:

https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/trial/2020-005226-28/results

 

Doing the homework so next time ..hopefully there isn't one ..you and others don't get conned again.Rather than put your head in the sands I'd be pissed and want answers.For my kids and friends , some who were coerced and regret taking it I am here to support them not judge them.I already lost one friend a week after his Moderna shots to massive blood clots that ended his life not long after he got it and others with including my kids with autoimmune issues they never had before.

That link does not tell me much.  

 

Anyway, I'm becoming bored of this nonsense.  I'm about to put you on my ignore list.   It will be a list of one - everybody else I've put on ignore has been banned.

 

 

[The Lock]

59 minutes ago, UncleBen said:

This is anywhere you can search if you really wanted the truth.Then again these companies wanted to hide data for 75 years from the public..ever wonder why ? We know more every month as more whistle-blowers come out or data is released.

 

I'm not here to do your homework bud. Either you do the research yourself and provide the link or you have nothing. And in case you forget, a dropbox full of documents that are easily altered does not count as evidence.

 

If we know more every month than it should be easy for you to provide the links.

Edited May 25 by The Lock

[King Heffy]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

I'm not here to do your homework chief. Either you do the research yourself and provide the link or you have nothing.

I'm guessing the last science experiment he did was the contents of his locker in high school.

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm guessing the last science experiment he did was the contents of his locker in high school.

 

The fact that he's relying on other people to do the work for him tells me he knows he's losing this battle. He's just not going to admit it.

Edited May 25 by The Lock

[RupertKBD]

I know this is going to come off condescending, but I really don't know any other way to put it....

 

Unless you're an expert in virology and capable of actually conducting proper clinical research, no amount of looking around on the internet is going to help you. You'll always be able to find sources that back up your stance, no matter which side of the debate you're on.

 

It's sad to say, but if you've reached the level of distrust that makes you believe that public health officials and the governments they work for are actively trying to deceive you and you think that there is some nefarious (but nebulous) reason for them doing so....then I'm sorry, but you're just lost....there really is no other way to put it.

 

After all this time, if you're still that far down the rabbit hole, I don't think you'll ever make it out....and I honestly feel sorry for you, even if it was self-inflicted....

[Xanlet]

On 5/25/2024 at 9:59 AM, RupertKBD said:

I know this is going to come off condescending, but I really don't know any other way to put it....

 

Unless you're an expert in virology and capable of actually conducting proper clinical research, no amount of looking around on the internet is going to help you. You'll always be able to find sources that back up your stance, no matter which side of the debate you're on.

 

It's sad to say, but if you've reached the level of distrust that makes you believe that public health officials and the governments they work for are actively trying to deceive you and you think that there is some nefarious (but nebulous) reason for them doing so....then I'm sorry, but you're just lost....there really is no other way to put it.

 

After all this time, if you're still that far down the rabbit hole, I don't think you'll ever make it out....and I honestly feel sorry for you, even if it was self-inflicted....

Never heard of Thalidomide? UK contaminated blood scandal and coverup? The opioid epidemic which was caused by doctors over-prescribing pain pills because they were getting kick backs? The fact that the vaccines were advertised as a way to reach "herd immunity" and stop the pandemic, when this was impossible? Just because someone has an MD next to their name does not mean they are a saint and beyond corruption.

 

Blind trust is not a virtue. These are systems where large, unscrupulous corporations have been gaining more and more power. You have situations like when Trump appointed Scott Gottlieb to be head of the FDA, which is responsible for approving new drugs. Can you guess what job he has now? He's on the board of directors for Pfizer. Not that I need mention it, but, according to CNN: "During his tenure as commissioner, Gottlieb approved a record number of treatments and drugs" and "The advocacy group Public Citizen said in a statement Tuesday that his time as the agency’s head “was marked by regulatory decision making regarding medications and medical devices that tilted further in favor of industry’s financial interests rather than the interests of public health.”". Sounds like Pfizer got a lot of drugs approved, and then Gottlieb got a cushy job! Still feel safe taking something approved as "safe and effective" from this pit of vipers?

 

If all of this washes over you, and you insist on having faith in a clearly broken and corrupt system, honestly, I feel sorry for you. They will just continue taking advantage of your good will, to your own detriment. These things need to be pointed out, given voice, and deemed unacceptable.

 

Also, in regard to the vax, just remember that the pharma companies themselves refused to roll them out without total indemnity. They would rather have not rolled them out than accepted liability for them. You don't need to be an expert, the experts who manufacturer it have, themselves, deemed the risk too high to accept the liability for them onto the company, so why would you accept that liability onto your body?

[Bob Long]

On 5/24/2024 at 7:58 PM, UncleBen said:

Out of the 21,587 vaccine participants, 621 developed a serious adverse event, equating to 1 in 35 people. There were 4,750 participants who sought or required medical attention after the vaccine, which is 1 in 5 people. Adverse events of special interest were reported in 2,516 participants, amounting to 1 in 9 people. See the comments section. 

 

You see the irony in how you got your info? 

[RupertKBD]

7 hours ago, Xanlet said:

Never heard of Thalidomide? UK contaminated blood scandal and coverup? The opioid epidemic which was caused by doctors over-prescribing pain pills because they were getting kick backs? The fact that the vaccines were advertised as a way to reach "herd immunity" and stop the pandemic, when this was impossible? Just because someone has an MD next to their name does not mean they are a saint and beyond corruption.

 

Blind trust is not a virtue. These are systems where large, unscrupulous corporations have been gaining more and more power. You have situations like when Trump appointed Scott Gottlieb to be head of the FDA, which is responsible for approving new drugs. Can you guess what job he has now? He's on the board of directors for Pfizer. Not that I need mention it, but, according to CNN: "During his tenure as commissioner, Gottlieb approved a record number of treatments and drugs" and "The advocacy group Public Citizen said in a statement Tuesday that his time as the agency’s head “was marked by regulatory decision making regarding medications and medical devices that tilted further in favor of industry’s financial interests rather than the interests of public health.”". Sounds like Pfizer got a lot of drugs approved, and then Gottlieb got a cushy job! Still feel safe taking something approved as "safe and effective" from this pit of vipers?

 

If all of this washes over you, and you insist on having faith in a clearly broken and corrupt system, honestly, I feel sorry for you. They will just continue taking advantage of your good will, to your own detriment. These things need to be pointed out, given voice, and deemed unacceptable.

 

Also, in regard to the vax, just remember that the pharma companies themselves refused to roll them out without total indemnity. They would rather have not rolled them out than accepted liability for them. You don't need to be an expert, the experts who manufacturer it have, themselves, deemed the risk too high to accept the liability for them onto the company, so why would you accept that liability onto your body?

 

Because tinfoil hat is so yesterday....here's a tinfoil cat for you....

 

[Satchmo]

8 hours ago, Xanlet said:

Never heard of Thalidomide? UK contaminated blood scandal and coverup? The opioid epidemic which was caused by doctors over-prescribing pain pills because they were getting kick backs? The fact that the vaccines were advertised as a way to reach "herd immunity" and stop the pandemic, when this was impossible? Just because someone has an MD next to their name does not mean they are a saint and beyond corruption.

 

Blind trust is not a virtue. These are systems where large, unscrupulous corporations have been gaining more and more power. You have situations like when Trump appointed Scott Gottlieb to be head of the FDA, which is responsible for approving new drugs. Can you guess what job he has now? He's on the board of directors for Pfizer. Not that I need mention it, but, according to CNN: "During his tenure as commissioner, Gottlieb approved a record number of treatments and drugs" and "The advocacy group Public Citizen said in a statement Tuesday that his time as the agency’s head “was marked by regulatory decision making regarding medications and medical devices that tilted further in favor of industry’s financial interests rather than the interests of public health.”". Sounds like Pfizer got a lot of drugs approved, and then Gottlieb got a cushy job! Still feel safe taking something approved as "safe and effective" from this pit of vipers?

 

If all of this washes over you, and you insist on having faith in a clearly broken and corrupt system, honestly, I feel sorry for you. They will just continue taking advantage of your good will, to your own detriment. These things need to be pointed out, given voice, and deemed unacceptable.

 

Also, in regard to the vax, just remember that the pharma companies themselves refused to roll them out without total indemnity. They would rather have not rolled them out than accepted liability for them. You don't need to be an expert, the experts who manufacturer it have, themselves, deemed the risk too high to accept the liability for them onto the company, so why would you accept that liability onto your body?

The connections you are attempting to make are very weak at best and nonexistent at worst.  Honestly, I feel sorry for you.

[Xanlet]

3 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Because tinfoil hat is so yesterday....here's a tinfoil cat for you....

May I ask whether you think there is anything concerning at all that the people in charge of regulating drugs immediately leave government and join the boards of the companies they were just regulating?

 

Are you familiar with the Oxycontin scandal which in large part caused the opioid epidemic we are now plagued with and which is killing massive amounts of people?

 

I truly don't understand why people would downplay these things. Seriously, do you deny that these things matter? Do you deny that they happen? Are you just sticking your head in the sand? Do you just not care?

 

The Pharma industry has a confirmed record of repeatedly placing financial interests above the interests of public health, and that is why regulation is so important, which is why the appearance of regulatory capture is so alarming.

[Bob Long]

Just now, Xanlet said:

May I ask whether you think there is anything concerning at all that the people in charge of regulating drugs immediately leave government and join the boards of the companies they were just regulating?

 

Are you familiar with the Oxycontin scandal which in large part caused the opioid epidemic we are now plagued with and which is killing massive amounts of people?

 

I truly don't understand why people would downplay these things. Seriously, do you deny that these things matter? Do you deny that they happen? Are you just sticking your head in the sand? Do you just not care?

 

The Pharma industry has a confirmed record of repeatedly placing financial interests above the interests of public health, and that is why regulation is so important, which is why the appearance of regulatory capture is so alarming.

 

So lets say god forbid you get cancer, or develop heart disease. Whats your plan? prayer? herbs? 

[Xanlet]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

So lets say god forbid you get cancer, or develop heart disease. Whats your plan? prayer? herbs? 

Don't you understand? I'm being critical of the system because I want it to be functional if I ever need to use it. Just pretending everything is fine when it's not doesn't help anything.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

May I ask whether you think there is anything concerning at all that the people in charge of regulating drugs immediately leave government and join the boards of the companies they were just regulating?

 

Are you familiar with the Oxycontin scandal which in large part caused the opioid epidemic we are now plagued with and which is killing massive amounts of people?

 

I truly don't understand why people would downplay these things. Seriously, do you deny that these things matter? Do you deny that they happen? Are you just sticking your head in the sand? Do you just not care?

 

The Pharma industry has a confirmed record of repeatedly placing financial interests above the interests of public health, and that is why regulation is so important, which is why the appearance of regulatory capture is so alarming.

Where do you suggest that the regulatory bodies find staff from if not from people with relevant experience in the field?

[Xanlet]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Where do you suggest that the regulatory bodies find staff from if not from people with relevant experience in the field?

Simple, place restrictions on associations with private companies. There are plenty of qualified doctors with public work experience, but there must be a ban on any financial interaction between elected officials and the companies they regulate, otherwise the avenue for corruption opens.

 

Also, as a side question, do you agree it is a problem but feel it's okay to tolerate it because you have to get the professionals somewhere?

Edited May 29 by Xanlet

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Xanlet said:

Don't you understand? I'm being critical of the system because I want it to be functional if I ever need to use it. Just pretending everything is fine when it's not doesn't help anything.

 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't have the background to understand the things you are cherry picking.

 

 

[Satchmo]

Just now, Xanlet said:

Don't you understand? I'm being critical of the system because I want it to be functional if I ever need to use it. Just pretending everything is fine when it's not doesn't help anything.

Everything is not fine.  It's just not as bad as you describe it to be.

 

 

[Xanlet]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't have the background to understand the things you are cherry picking.

 

 

Informed consent is the bedrock of medical ethics. If you offload your duty to be informed, you invite catastrophe.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Informed consent is the bedrock of medical ethics. If you offload your duty to be informed, you invite catastrophe.

 

good thing thats part of clinical trail applications then. 

[Xanlet]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

good thing thats part of clinical trail applications then. 

Informed consent extends to every person who was offered the jab. Imagine going to a car dealership and the salesman telling you "I have a background in mechanics and you don't, so you aren't in a position to form any opinion on the cars here, just buy the one I tell you to". I'm guessing that wouldn't fly for you. The same applies to medicine, any medical professional offering you any treatment or drug needs to tell you exactly how it works, why they believe it will work, what the risks are, and the evidence they have to support those claims. To advise people to be less curious, to be less inquisitive, and to just listen and believe is terrible advice.

 

That's why the rollout of the vax was so concerning. They did not properly inform people of the risks and they oversold the efficacy of it. The Canadian government claimed it stops the spread, when you can go and look yourself at the distribution of cases and the prevalence of vaccinated people in different countries and of US counties and see that it has absolutely no effect on cases per capita.

 

You should be concerned that public health officials got this wrong. It's actually a big deal.

 

 

Being a responsible adult is to actually care about the truth. Just listening to authority is not good enough.

Edited May 29 by Xanlet
typo

[RupertKBD]

37 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Don't you understand? I'm being critical of the system because I want it to be functional if I ever need to use it. Just pretending everything is fine when it's not doesn't help anything.

Nobody is saying everything is "fine" and that there are never issues.

 

Most of us are just saying that if you believe there's some giant conspiracy between Big Pharma and the Government to make you take vaccines you don't need, or are designed to institute some sort of "control" over the population, you've lost the plot.

[Bob Long]

20 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Informed consent extends to every person who was offered the jab. Imagine going to a car dealership and the salesman telling you "I have a background in mechanics and you don't, so you aren't in a position to form any opinion on the cars here, just buy the one I tell you to". I'm guessing that wouldn't fly for you. The same applies to medicine, any medical professional offering you any treatment or drug needs to tell you exactly how it works, why they believe it will work, what the risks are, and the evidence they have to support those claims. To advise people to be less curious, to be less inquisitive, and to just listen and believe is terrible advice.

 

That's why the rollout of the vax was so concerning. They did not properly inform people of the risks and they oversold the efficacy of it. The Canadian government claimed it stops the spread, when you can go and look yourself at the distribution of cases and the prevalence of vaccinated people in different countries and of US counties and see that it has absolutely no effect on cases per capita.

 

You should be concerned that public health officials got this wrong. It's actually a big deal.

 

 

Being a responsible adult is to actually care about the truth. Just listening to authority is not good enough.

 

Nope, this is horse pucks. People were informed, based on the clinical trials.

 

You seem to be under the impression that uncovering more issues later is something shady. 

 

It's not, it has a name: post-market surveillance. Look this term up, I think it will be helpful to you. 

 

But that's assuming you really do want to learn something, which I doubt but look it up anyway.

[AatuD2]

1 hour ago, Xanlet said:

Don't you understand? I'm being critical of the system because I want it to be functional if I ever need to use it. Just pretending everything is fine when it's not doesn't help anything.

 

You are speaking into the void here.  

 

People have attached their beliefs about Covid onto their personality and anybody that questions their beliefs is in their mind attacking them personally.  They cannot separate the two. 

 

 

There are also still people here that believe that Covid came from a wet market and not from the lab in Wuhan.  No amount of evidence will sway their opinion.  

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

You are speaking into the void here.  

 

People have attached their beliefs about Covid onto their personality and anybody that questions their beliefs is in their mind attacking them personally.  They cannot separate the two. 

 

 

There are also still people here that believe that Covid came from a wet market and not from the lab in Wuhan.  No amount of evidence will sway their opinion.  

 

I feel bad for you, I don't think you are like the folks deliberately trying to mislead people, but you've fallen for the bad stuff.

[Satchmo]

38 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

You are speaking into the void here.  

 

People have attached their beliefs about Covid onto their personality and anybody that questions their beliefs is in their mind attacking them personally.  They cannot separate the two. 

 

 

There are also still people here that believe that Covid came from a wet market and not from the lab in Wuhan.  No amount of evidence will sway their opinion.  

You and I have had this conversation before.   I just refuse to accept that there is 100% proof of this lab theory.

 

One thing I am 100% positive about is that nature is perfectly capable of creating a deadly virus.   It's done it many times before and will no doubt do it again.