Vaccine thread

[the destroyer of worlds]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

You and I have had this conversation before.   I just refuse to accept that there is 100% proof of this lab theory.

 

One thing I am 100% positive about is that nature is perfectly capable of creating a deadly virus.   It's done it many times before and will no doubt do it again.

With regard to the lab leak theory.  What exactly changes if it were proven 100% true?  It's a question that lab leakers actually answer.  Or, at the very least they admit that not much would change.

 

The thing is, we need labs like the one in Wuhan simply because novel viruses can and will infect humans.  These viruses can cause pandemics.  These labs can and will give us a heads up regarding these viruses.  Closing them down is effectively putting our heads in the sand.

 

No, the only reason they NEED it to be from the lab is they cannot accept that random things can happen.  Probably because they have a laundry list of tinfoil hat conspiracies that they also believe in.  Dollars to doughnuts they probably believe that the Earth is flat, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Evolution is a lie, that the moon landings are fake, etc., etc.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

14 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

No, the only reason they NEED it to be from the lab is they cannot accept that random things can happen.  Probably because they have a laundry list of tinfoil hat conspiracies that they also believe in.  Dollars to doughnuts they probably believe that the Earth is flat, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Evolution is a lie, that the moon landings are fake, etc., etc.

 

Because then they can blame it on science.  Remember, the world view for a lot of these people are that science cannot be believed/trusted.

 

edit, I meant to write trusted but put in believed - but both are (and can be) true

Edited May 29 by 6of1_halfdozenofother

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

With regard to the lab leak theory.  What exactly changes if it were proven 100% true?  It's a question that lab leakers actually answer.  Or, at the very least they admit that not much would change.

 

The thing is, we need labs like the one in Wuhan simply because novel viruses can and will infect humans.  These viruses can cause pandemics.  These labs can and will give us a heads up regarding these viruses.  Closing them down is effectively putting our heads in the sand.

 

No, the only reason they NEED it to be from the lab is they cannot accept that random things can happen.  Probably because they have a laundry list of tinfoil hat conspiracies that they also believe in.  Dollars to doughnuts they probably believe that the Earth is flat, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Evolution is a lie, that the moon landings are fake, etc., etc.

It would prove that people who hold to the wet market theory were wrong and can not be trusted, and that those who never trusted them in the first place would be right.  Everybody loves to be proven right. 

 

It's a pissing contest really in which the winner get's to say 'I told you so!'.  Nature does not care who wins or who says what and will just keep on doing what it does.

[King Heffy]

43 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

You and I have had this conversation before.   I just refuse to accept that there is 100% proof of this lab theory.

 

One thing I am 100% positive about is that nature is perfectly capable of creating a deadly virus.   It's done it many times before and will no doubt do it again.

Yep.  We'll likely never know for sure and it's plain ignorance to pretend otherwise.

[You Will Own Nothing]

4 hours ago, Xanlet said:

May I ask whether you think there is anything concerning at all that the people in charge of regulating drugs immediately leave government and join the boards of the companies they were just regulating?

 

Are you familiar with the Oxycontin scandal which in large part caused the opioid epidemic we are now plagued with and which is killing massive amounts of people?

 

I truly don't understand why people would downplay these things. Seriously, do you deny that these things matter? Do you deny that they happen? Are you just sticking your head in the sand? Do you just not care?

 

The Pharma industry has a confirmed record of repeatedly placing financial interests above the interests of public health, and that is why regulation is so important, which is why the appearance of regulatory capture is so alarming.

It’s almost like people don’t want to admit that there is no possibility that humanity has the potential to be disingenuous and sinister. You just have to simply ask yourself. Are all humans evil, no. However that said is there a reality that humans are using fear to control and to get what they want? Absolutely, so why is it so hard to see that pharmacy companies have a history of putting profits over public health.

 

Many people invested in big pharm during the pandemic including our own prime minister which is probably why he was so motivated to get everyone here vaccinated. He had his personal gains as well as looks good to have his country vaccinated.

 

 

It’s sad when people put blind faith with their health. Not everyone is out to get you but everyone is trying to get ahead in life. At the end of the day we are still animals trying to survive. Survival to the fittest still is relevant in today’s society. It’s always better to be inquisitive and critical thinking because we aren’t always told the truth even from government & big pharmaceuticals.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, You Will Own Nothing said:

It’s almost like people don’t want to admit that there is no possibility that humanity has the potential to be disingenuous and sinister. You just have to simply ask yourself. Are all humans evil, no. However that said is there a reality that humans are using fear to control and to get what they want? Absolutely, so why is it so hard to see that pharmacy companies have a history of putting profits over public health.

 

Many people invested in big pharm during the pandemic including our own prime minister which is probably why he was so motivated to get everyone here vaccinated. He had his personal gains as well as looks good to have his country vaccinated.

 

 

It’s sad when people put blind faith with their health. Not everyone is out to get you but everyone is trying to get ahead in life. At the end of the day we are still animals trying to survive. Survival to the fittest still is relevant in today’s society. It’s always better to be inquisitive and critical thinking because we aren’t always told the truth even from government & big pharmaceuticals.

Hey you're back!

 

To ask, all us critical thinking Canadians to consider your insanely conspiratorial twitter posts as fact

 

Nice

[You Will Own Nothing]

3 hours ago, AatuD2 said:

 

You are speaking into the void here.  

 

People have attached their beliefs about Covid onto their personality and anybody that questions their beliefs is in their mind attacking them personally.  They cannot separate the two. 

 

 

There are also still people here that believe that Covid came from a wet market and not from the lab in Wuhan.  No amount of evidence will sway their opinion.  

Yup you can’t change someone’s mind if they refuse to admit when they have been fooled. Each to their own, be a good boy/girl comply and get your 6th booster etc.

[Warhippy]

Just now, You Will Own Nothing said:

Yup you can’t change someone’s mind if they refuse to admit when they have been fooled. Each to their own, be a good boy/girl comply and get your 6th booster etc.

He says no doubt after spending 2-4 years telling people all the bad things that would happen that...didnt

[Satchmo]

11 minutes ago, You Will Own Nothing said:

Yup you can’t change someone’s mind if they refuse to admit when they have been fooled. Each to their own, be a good boy/girl comply and get your 6th booster etc.

You can't change someone's mind with insufficient proof to support your argument.

[Bob Long]

45 minutes ago, You Will Own Nothing said:

Yup you can’t change someone’s mind if they refuse to admit when they have been fooled. Each to their own, be a good boy/girl comply and get your 6th booster etc.

 

You are tougher than a virus. I'm in awe.

[StrayDog]

5 hours ago, AatuD2 said:

 

People have attached their beliefs about Covid onto their personality and anybody that questions their beliefs is in their mind attacking them personally.  They cannot separate the two. 

 

2 hours ago, You Will Own Nothing said:

Yup you can’t change someone’s mind if they refuse to admit when they have been fooled. 

Y'all understand these statements can apply to both sides, right? And can be thrown back at you?

[Xanlet]

6 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

Nobody is saying everything is "fine" and that there are never issues.

 

Most of us are just saying that if you believe there's some giant conspiracy between Big Pharma and the Government to make you take vaccines you don't need, or are designed to institute some sort of "control" over the population, you've lost the plot.

Where have I ever said anything of the sort? The vaccines represented a major financial interest, I don't think anyone can deny that. That alone forms a basis for it to be pushed by those who benefit financially. Also, to quote the great George Carlin: "You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge"

[RupertKBD]

6 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Where have I ever said anything of the sort? The vaccines represented a major financial interest, I don't think anyone can deny that. That alone forms a basis for it to be pushed by those who benefit financially. Also, to quote the great George Carlin: "You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge"

 

I don't know that you did....but you decided to respond to my post when I originally made that same point.

 

If you didn't disagree with what I was saying, then you shouldn't have responded to that post. I would have ignored your nonsense completely....

[the destroyer of worlds]

5 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Where have I ever said anything of the sort? The vaccines represented a major financial interest, I don't think anyone can deny that. That alone forms a basis for it to be pushed by those who benefit financially. Also, to quote the great George Carlin: "You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge"

Phased trials were done. These vaccines weren't willy nilly pushed on us.   Not even close.

 

For most medications and treatments, the number of participants in Phase 3 trials typically number in the hundreds to thousands.   Cancer treatments can be on the low end.

 

Moderna had over 30,000 for their Phase 3 trial of their covid vaccine.   Pfizer had over 40,000.  An order of magnitude larger than typical testing. 

 

And as for post approval monitoring, these vaccines have been some of the most expansive.  Multiple National health services.   Universities from around the world.  Nations with liberal governments.   Nations with conservative ones.  Numerous independent groups.

 

If these vaccines were dangerous, it would be impossible to deny.  Yet, when people point out that even here in Northern BC there was a dedicated ward for Covid patients and our morgue was expanded can you lot point to a similar situation for the deadly, dangerous covid vaccines?   The answer is hell no.  Not even close.

[Xanlet]

5 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

With regard to the lab leak theory.  What exactly changes if it were proven 100% true?  It's a question that lab leakers actually answer.  Or, at the very least they admit that not much would change.

 

The thing is, we need labs like the one in Wuhan simply because novel viruses can and will infect humans.  These viruses can cause pandemics.  These labs can and will give us a heads up regarding these viruses.  Closing them down is effectively putting our heads in the sand.

 

No, the only reason they NEED it to be from the lab is they cannot accept that random things can happen.  Probably because they have a laundry list of tinfoil hat conspiracies that they also believe in.  Dollars to doughnuts they probably believe that the Earth is flat, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Evolution is a lie, that the moon landings are fake, etc., etc.

Did you catch Jon Stewart's appearance on The Late Show back in June of 2021? Is he a flat Earther? A 9/11 Truther? An Evolution denier? A moon landing denier?

 

We need to face facts. Science is an immensely powerful tool which has granted our species exceptional advantages and comforts. It also almost certainly caused this pandemic. Saying so has no bearing on political, religious, or any other beliefs.

 

The culture war or political divides seem to have utterly warped some people's brains so that a simple assessment of the facts baffles them and they must force it to conform to their preconceptions.

[Xanlet]

2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Phased trials were done. These vaccines weren't willy nilly pushed on us.   Not even close.

 

For most medications and treatments, the number of participants in Phase 3 trials typically number in the hundreds to thousands.   Cancer treatments can be on the low end.

 

Moderna had over 30,000 for their Phase 3 trial of their covid vaccine.   Pfizer had over 40,000.  An order of magnitude larger than typical testing. 

 

And as for post approval monitoring, these vaccines have been some of the most expansive.  Multiple National health services.   Universities from around the world.  Nations with liberal governments.   Nations with conservative ones.  Numerous independent groups.

 

If these vaccines were dangerous, it would be impossible to deny.  Yet, when people point out that even here in Northern BC there was a dedicated ward for Covid patients and our morgue was expanded can you lot point to a similar situation for the deadly, dangerous covid vaccines?   The answer is hell no.  Not even close.

Those clinical trials were conducted under President Trump's "Warp Speed" program. Which, in case the name didn't tip you off, were finished way faster than any reasonable trial should have been. Thus, they were incapable of accurately assessing the harms associated with the vaccine. Shall I make assumptions that everyone defending these shots are ardent Trump supporters who want to defend the integrity of Trump's program? I mean by this only to show the futility of guessing someone's political bent based on one point alone.

 

As far as the harmful impact of these vaccines, I would direct you to look into the phenomenon of excess deaths which exists in countries which rolled out the vaccine but is not present in countries with less vaccination, but since I am sure you aren't open to this, I will take your last paragraph as a pointless rhetorical question.

[Johngould21]

Meanwhile my wife and I got our 8th shot today…I can assure you I’m alive and well.

Edited May 30 by Johngould21

[Satchmo]

12 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Those clinical trials were conducted under President Trump's "Warp Speed" program. Which, in case the name didn't tip you off, were finished way faster than any reasonable trial should have been. Thus, they were incapable of accurately assessing the harms associated with the vaccine. Shall I make assumptions that everyone defending these shots are ardent Trump supporters who want to defend the integrity of Trump's program? I mean by this only to show the futility of guessing someone's political bent based on one point alone.

 

As far as the harmful impact of these vaccines, I would direct you to look into the phenomenon of excess deaths which exists in countries which rolled out the vaccine but is not present in countries with less vaccination, but since I am sure you aren't open to this, I will take your last paragraph as a pointless rhetorical question.

Can you tell me who produced that image?

[Alflives]

32 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Did you catch Jon Stewart's appearance on The Late Show back in June of 2021? Is he a flat Earther? A 9/11 Truther? An Evolution denier? A moon landing denier?

 

We need to face facts. Science is an immensely powerful tool which has granted our species exceptional advantages and comforts. It also almost certainly caused this pandemic. Saying so has no bearing on political, religious, or any other beliefs.

 

The culture war or political divides seem to have utterly warped some people's brains so that a simple assessment of the facts baffles them and they must force it to conform to their preconceptions.

Apple is the best flavour

 

 

 

Edited May 30 by Alflives

[Xanlet]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Apple is the best flavour
 

 

As I tried to educate you in the other thread, Ivermectin has been administered 3.7 billion times to humans and is on the WHO's list of essential medicines for humans. Again, off label repurposing of safe drugs is common place. It's always fascinating to me why some people pick one drug to champion and defend profusely, while mocking another drug which has a much longer history of safety. Also, here is an actual study pertaining to its use against Covid, although I'm sure you're quite happy with your current misunderstanding:

Conclusion

We believe that the evidence to date supports the worldwide extension of IVM treatments for COVID-19, complementary to immunizations. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, as reviewed [8], possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains. IVM has been safely used in 3.7 billion doses since 1987, well tolerated even at much greater than standard doses [34,35] and used without serious AEs in the three high-dose COVID-19 treatment studies noted above [34,36,37]. In the current international emergency of COVID-19, with mutant viral strains, vaccination refusals and potentially waning immunities over months presenting new challenges, IVM can be an effective component of the mix of therapeutics deployed against this pandemic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/

[4petesake]

15 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Can you tell me who produced that image?

It originated with this group and then was spread on Rumble. The assertions made in the chart are fact-checked in the link

A video produced by a group claiming to represent Canadian doctors and health care professionals alleges that the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine is dangerous. But the video repeats several previously debunked assertions about the safety of the shot, experts say the benefits outweigh the risks of rare side effects, and the Canadian government recommends it to prevent hospitalization and death.

"The Pfizer Inoculations For COVID-19 - More Harm Than Good," says the title of a video released by the Canadian Covid Care Alliance(CCCA). In the video, CCCA claims to represent more than 500 "independent doctors, scientists and health care practitioners," but has not released the names or affiliations of its members.

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.afp.com%2F9VJ3DA-1

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

As I tried to educate you in the other thread, Ivermectin has been administered 3.7 billion times to humans and is on the WHO's list of essential medicines for humans. Again, off label repurposing of safe drugs is common place. It's always fascinating to me why some people pick one drug to champion and defend profusely, while mocking another drug which has a much longer history of safety. Also, here is an actual study pertaining to its use against Covid, although I'm sure you're quite happy with your current misunderstanding:

Conclusion

We believe that the evidence to date supports the worldwide extension of IVM treatments for COVID-19, complementary to immunizations. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, as reviewed [8], possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains. IVM has been safely used in 3.7 billion doses since 1987, well tolerated even at much greater than standard doses [34,35] and used without serious AEs in the three high-dose COVID-19 treatment studies noted above [34,36,37]. In the current international emergency of COVID-19, with mutant viral strains, vaccination refusals and potentially waning immunities over months presenting new challenges, IVM can be an effective component of the mix of therapeutics deployed against this pandemic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/

 

It works better if you stick in up your hiney and face north. 

[Johngould21]

21 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

As I tried to educate you in the other thread, Ivermectin has been administered 3.7 billion times to humans and is on the WHO's list of essential medicines for humans. Again, off label repurposing of safe drugs is common place. It's always fascinating to me why some people pick one drug to champion and defend profusely, while mocking another drug which has a much longer history of safety. Also, here is an actual study pertaining to its use against Covid, although I'm sure you're quite happy with your current misunderstanding:

Conclusion

We believe that the evidence to date supports the worldwide extension of IVM treatments for COVID-19, complementary to immunizations. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, as reviewed [8], possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains. IVM has been safely used in 3.7 billion doses since 1987, well tolerated even at much greater than standard doses [34,35] and used without serious AEs in the three high-dose COVID-19 treatment studies noted above [34,36,37]. In the current international emergency of COVID-19, with mutant viral strains, vaccination refusals and potentially waning immunities over months presenting new challenges, IVM can be an effective component of the mix of therapeutics deployed against this pandemic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/

I was wrong, this eighth shot, just made me blurt out, f’off! 

[King Heffy]

6 hours ago, You Will Own Nothing said:

Yup you can’t change someone’s mind if they refuse to admit when they have been fooled. Each to their own, be a good boy/girl comply and get your 6th booster etc.

[Alflives]

9 hours ago, Xanlet said:

As I tried to educate you in the other thread, Ivermectin has been administered 3.7 billion times to humans and is on the WHO's list of essential medicines for humans. Again, off label repurposing of safe drugs is common place. It's always fascinating to me why some people pick one drug to champion and defend profusely, while mocking another drug which has a much longer history of safety. Also, here is an actual study pertaining to its use against Covid, although I'm sure you're quite happy with your current misunderstanding:

Conclusion

We believe that the evidence to date supports the worldwide extension of IVM treatments for COVID-19, complementary to immunizations. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, as reviewed [8], possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains. IVM has been safely used in 3.7 billion doses since 1987, well tolerated even at much greater than standard doses [34,35] and used without serious AEs in the three high-dose COVID-19 treatment studies noted above [34,36,37]. In the current international emergency of COVID-19, with mutant viral strains, vaccination refusals and potentially waning immunities over months presenting new challenges, IVM can be an effective component of the mix of therapeutics deployed against this pandemic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/