Vaccine thread

[RupertKBD]

10 hours ago, Satchmo said:

Can you tell me who produced that image?

 

It took a little digging, but I found it. It's from a group that calls itself the Canadian Covid Care Alliance. Here's what they say about themselves:

https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/about-us/

 

Quote

In early 2021, after nearly a year of crisis, a number of Canadians were actively researching the science underlying the Covid-19 pandemic, seeking information and evidence from world experts. In response to communications from Canadians, Dr. Peter McCullough connected several Canadians, and within 3 days in March 2021, that reach out resulted in the first weekly meeting of Canadians in the group that became Canadian Covid Care Alliance (CCCA).  Within a month, the CCCA was named, and adopted its charter and mission statement. Shortly after, it was incorporated as a not-for-profit organization. The CCCA has grown in membership and reputation, attracting Canadians and people around the world who are seeking balanced, unbiased views about the issues related to Covid-19. 

 

I've bolded that particular sentence, because the name Peter McCullough rang a bell. With good reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_A._McCullough

 

Quote

 

COVID-19 misinformation

Some of McCullough's public statements contributed to the spread of COVID-19 misinformation.^[4][5]

McCullough testified before a committee of the Texas Senate in March 2021, posted to YouTube by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, in which he made false claims about COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccines, including that people under 50 years of age and survivors do not need the vaccine and that there is no evidence of asymptomatic spread of COVID-19.^[29]

Posted on the Canadian online video sharing platform Rumble, McCullough gave an interview in April 2021 to The New American, the magazine of the right-wing John Birch Society, in which he advanced anti-vaccination messaging, including falsely claiming huge numbers of fatalities attributed to the COVID-19 vaccines.^[24] In May 2021, McCullough gave an interview in which he made claims about COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccines which were "inaccurate, misleading and/or unsupported by evidence", including that survivors cannot be re-infected and so do not require vaccination and that the vaccines are dangerous.^[30]

During television appearances, McCullough has contradicted public health recommendations, including when asked about the aggressive spread of COVID-19 among children, by suggesting that healthy persons under 30 had no need for a vaccine,^[31][49] and when asked about the relative merits of vaccination-induced immunity versus "natural" (survivor) immunity, by disputing the necessity of vaccinations to achieve herd immunity.^{[4][23][50][51]} In December 2021, McCullough appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience promoting debunked conspiracy theories and misinformation (e.g. the COVID-19 pandemic was planned, the spike protein causes cell death, medical authorities are conspiring to illegitimately suppress hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin).^[27][28][52]

McCullough has served as Chief Scientific Officer for The Wellness Company, a Florida-based dietary supplement and telehealth company, since its founding in June 2022.^[53][54]

In October 2022, the American Board of Internal Medicine recommended that McCullough's board certification be revoked due to his promotion of misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines.^[55]

 

 

Edited May 30 by RupertKBD

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It took a little digging, but I found it. It's from a group that calls itself the Canadian Covid Care Alliance. Here's what they say about themselves:

 

 

I've bolded that particular sentence, because the name Peter McCullough rang a bell. With good reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_A._McCullough

 

 

 

It's amazing how some people are attracted to guys like this. There's a lot of power in convincing someone that there's a conspiracy against them. 

 

If we ever do have another pandemic, we know exactly how it will go. Maybe that time we can stop pandering to the dumb dumbs and not waste the energy trying to save them from themselves.

[RupertKBD]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

It's amazing how some people are attracted to guys like this. There's a lot of power in convincing someone that there's a conspiracy against them. 

 

If we ever do have another pandemic, we know exactly how it will go. Maybe that time we can stop pandering to the dumb dumbs and not waste the energy trying to save them from themselves.

 

There's a bit in there about some "Wellness" company that McCullough has started up. It appears as though the goal might have been to monetize his stance:

 

Quote

McCullough has served as Chief Scientific Officer for The Wellness Company, a Florida-based dietary supplement and telehealth company, since its founding in June 2022.^[53][54]

 

[Bob Long]

Just now, RupertKBD said:

It appears as though the goal might have been to monetize his stance:

 

 

 

Colour me shocked. 

[AliasUnknown]

I've been reading this thread for a couple days and would like to share some info about IVM and it's efficacy in regards to covid. This is a short video from Dr. Sabine Hazan.

https://sabinehazanmd.com/
This is testimony from a covid inquiry in the U.S.  Please take the time to watch this sort video, with an open mind. Dr. Sabine is one of, if not the top gastroenterologists in the U.S. Hydroxochloriquine and Ivermectin were both supressed in order to roll out the EUA  vaccine. 
Gastroenterologist and CEO of ProgenaBiome, Dr. Sabine Hazan, has said that the COVID-19 vaccine may cause immunosuppression by reducing good Bifidobacteria in the gut. She showed that after COVID-19 mRNA vaccination, Bifidobacteria levels dropped by half among her trial participants.
 

 

[Bob Long]

28 minutes ago, AliasUnknown said:

I've been reading this thread for a couple days and would like to share some info about IVM and it's efficacy in regards to covid. This is a short video from Dr. Sabine Hazan.

https://sabinehazanmd.com/
This is testimony from a covid inquiry in the U.S.  Please take the time to watch this sort video, with an open mind. Dr. Sabine is one of, if not the top gastroenterologists in the U.S. Hydroxochloriquine and Ivermectin were both supressed in order to roll out the EUA  vaccine. 
Gastroenterologist and CEO of ProgenaBiome, Dr. Sabine Hazan, has said that the COVID-19 vaccine may cause immunosuppression by reducing good Bifidobacteria in the gut. She showed that after COVID-19 mRNA vaccination, Bifidobacteria levels dropped by half among her trial participants.
 

 

 

 

why is this all this crap coming up again? 

[Gurn]

Conspiracy theory is very hard to battle.

It's insidious.

"why don't I have more money?"

-"It's because of those people, over there, they are messing with the system, and keeping me on the outside'

is likely much more palatable to some than

"It's because,   I don't have the education or experience or aptitude, to earn that money'

basically 'it's not my fault, it can't be, because my mommy and daddy said I'm special'

[Bob Long]

Just now, Gurn said:

Conspiracy theory is very hard to battle.

It's insidious.

"why don't I have more money?"

-"It's because of those people, over there, they are messing with the system, and keeping me on the outside'

is likely much more palatable to some than

"It's because,   I don't have the education or experience or aptitude, to earn that money'

basically 'it's not my fault, it can't be, because my mommy and daddy said I'm special'

 

"gatekeepers"

 

PP is such a toxic little creep. 

[the destroyer of worlds]

15 hours ago, Xanlet said:

Those clinical trials were conducted under President Trump's "Warp Speed" program. Which, in case the name didn't tip you off, were finished way faster than any reasonable trial should have been. Thus, they were incapable of accurately assessing the harms associated with the vaccine. Shall I make assumptions that everyone defending these shots are ardent Trump supporters who want to defend the integrity of Trump's program? I mean by this only to show the futility of guessing someone's political bent based on one point alone.

 

As far as the harmful impact of these vaccines, I would direct you to look into the phenomenon of excess deaths which exists in countries which rolled out the vaccine but is not present in countries with less vaccination, but since I am sure you aren't open to this, I will take your last paragraph as a pointless rhetorical question.

Let's explain Operation Warp Speed for the 9876986598726587236587264782364827498723349879847198274981274897th time and why it led to quick turnaround time.

 

1)  All Covid treatments and vaccines got priority.  Under normal conditions, treatments/medications/vaccines cue up.  First in line gets looked at.  Last is last.  Warp Speed meant that the Covid vaccines jumped the cue and got considered right away.  Obviously this decreases the time.

 

2)  Information in normal conditions is submitted once all testing is completed AND the final report for that testing is finished.  Operation Warp speed allowed for data to be submitted as they got it.  Again, speeding up the process.

 

3)  Money was all but guaranteed.  Funny how you mention Pfizer, because they didn't get up front money like some others did.  They just knew that if their vaccine worked, it would get bought.  You do realize how much this hinders and slows down the process?  Getting the money to conduct Phase trials is a major hurdle that can and does slow down the process.

 

4)  Getting locations that will conduct said Phased trials is also an issue.  Conducting a Phase trial costs money, time and manpower.  In the case of Covid, there was no shortage of locations willing and able to host testing.  Some testing took place in upwards of a hundred locations.  Again, speeding up the process.

 

5)  Another issue for trials under normal conditions is getting people wiling to be test subjects.  As I obviously pointed out, there was no shortage of people willing to be test subjects for Covid treatment/vaccines.  Over 30,000 willing to participate in Moderna's test alone.  10 times what typically happens under normal situations.  Obviously, this sped up the process.

 

6)  Phase 2 and 3 trials essentially test similar things.  Typically, Phase 2 trials have far fewer participants testing efficacy and testing for side effects.  Phase 3 trials are typically 10 times larger than Phase 2 trials and test for efficacy and for adverse reactions.  You need both to get approval.  Treatments/drugs/vaccines that pass these get approved.  

 

You can argue about speed, but the vaccines did do the testing.  They passed the testing.  They passed using an order of magnitude more test subjects than the medications you have used in the past.  

 

They are safe.  PERIOD

[Xanlet]

5 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

They are safe.  PERIOD

If they are proven safe, why did all the manufacturers demand indemnity? Why were they unwilling to roll them out without being totally free from liability? If they were proven totally safe, there should have been no liability to be concerned about, right? Yet the pharma companies threatened to refuse roll out unless they had this indemnity! Curious!

[Warhippy]

14 BILLION injections given world wide.

 

That is now leading or has lead to an estimated 633,000 VAERs events

 

Or .004% of a risk per injection

 

But sure.  The shots aren't safe or are bad.

 

For reference.  Winning the Lotto 649 has a 1 in 14 million chance and the lotto max has a 1 in 28 million chance.

 

You have a better chance of winning both twice in a week than you do of having a serious adverse reaction to a covid shot.

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

If they are proven safe, why did all the manufacturers demand indemnity? Why were they unwilling to roll them out without being totally free from liability? If they were proven totally safe, there should have been no liability to be concerned about, right? Yet the pharma companies threatened to refuse roll out unless they had this indemnity! Curious!

 

Because they aren't run by morons? 

 

I can understand why you might be confused, given what you try to use as "evidence". 

[Satchmo]

53 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

If they are proven safe, why did all the manufacturers demand indemnity? Why were they unwilling to roll them out without being totally free from liability? If they were proven totally safe, there should have been no liability to be concerned about, right? Yet the pharma companies threatened to refuse roll out unless they had this indemnity! Curious!

I would imagine they have a lot of lawyers.  The kind that force companies to put weird disclaimers on just about anything you buy.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

I would imagine they have a lot of lawyers.  The kind that force companies to put weird disclaimers on just about anything you buy.

 

How about as soon as the anti vax leaders give up their free speech protection, the vaccine companies can waive their protections.

[the destroyer of worlds]

2 hours ago, Xanlet said:

If they are proven safe, why did all the manufacturers demand indemnity? Why were they unwilling to roll them out without being totally free from liability? If they were proven totally safe, there should have been no liability to be concerned about, right? Yet the pharma companies threatened to refuse roll out unless they had this indemnity! Curious!

Because there are highly litigious people out there.  You want them to be liable, then the cost per dose goes way way up.  My guess is you'd complain about that as well.  But hey, then they would be liable.  Liable for some sore arms.

 

Every vaccine and drug you've ever had has side effects.   It's why whenever you received a vaccine in the past, you were instructed to hang around for 15ish minutes.   

 

These vaccines are safe.  No different than the MMR vaccine you got in the past.  

 

PERIOD 

Edited May 31 by the destroyer of worlds

[Duodenum]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

14 BILLION injections given world wide.

 

That is now leading or has lead to an estimated 633,000 VAERs events

 

Or .004% of a risk per injection

 

But sure.  The shots aren't safe or are bad.

 

For reference.  Winning the Lotto 649 has a 1 in 14 million chance and the lotto max has a 1 in 28 million chance.

 

You have a better chance of winning both twice in a week than you do of having a serious adverse reaction to a covid shot.

Pretty sure your math is way off but, yea, the vaccines have shown to be safe in real world application.

 

Just some niche of the population still trying to pretend they've got secret knowledge us plebes don't understand. 

 

Always funny seeing the ones posting studies even though it takes me about 30 seconds to realize they have no idea how to read/analyze a study.

[Hogs and Podz]

3 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Pretty sure your math is way off but, yea, the vaccines have shown to be safe in real world application.

 

Just some niche of the population still trying to pretend they've got secret knowledge us plebes don't understand. 

 

Always funny seeing the ones posting studies even though it takes me about 30 seconds to realize they have no idea how to read/analyze a study.

And you do?  

[Duodenum]

1 minute ago, Hogs and Podz said:

And you do?  

Yea I'm quite versed, it's important for my career.

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Pretty sure your math is way off but, yea, the vaccines have shown to be safe in real world application.

 

Just some niche of the population still trying to pretend they've got secret knowledge us plebes don't understand. 

 

Always funny seeing the ones posting studies even though it takes me about 30 seconds to realize they have no idea how to read/analyze a study.

I may have the math wrong but the numbers are 633k significant VAERs event to almost 14 billion worldwide injections.  What does that equate in to a percentage or event per shot basis?

[Duodenum]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I may have the math wrong but the numbers are 633k significant VAERs event to almost 14 billion worldwide injections.  What does that equate in to a percentage or event per shot basis?

0.000007% chance for the 649 (1 in 14,000,000), so it's lower than the adverse vaccine event rate. 

 

You were correct in that vaccine injuries have been uncommon, it's just not as rare as winning the lottery. 

[Xanlet]

5 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Because there are highly litigious people out there.  You want them to be liable, then the cost per dose goes way way up.  My guess is you'd complain about that as well.  But hey, then they would be liable.  Liable for some sore arms.

 

Every vaccine and drug you've ever had has side effects.   It's why whenever you received a vaccine in the past, you were instructed to hang around for 15ish minutes.   

 

These vaccines are safe.  No different than the MMR vaccine you got in the past.  

 

PERIOD 

The cost would only go up based on the degree of risk associated with that liability. So what are you implying here? Perhaps the manufacturers are better positioned to gauge the risk than anyone? And they gauge it as equating a high cost?

 

Also, if these were so thoroughly tested and safe, why did many European countries halt use of Moderna in younger people after almost a year of roll out? In fact, according to wiki, "In June 2021, the US CDC confirmed that myocarditis or pericarditis occurs in about 13 of every 1 million young people, mostly male and over the age of 16, who received the Moderna or the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna_COVID-19_vaccine

 

For the math guys out there, that's one person having heart damage caused by the vax for every 76,923 people vaccinated. Or are the CDC a bunch of anti-vax conspiracy theorists? Also, this is literally only a single adverse reaction, what are the odds of blood clotting disorders and Guillain-Barre syndrome? You would have to add those as well to get the true risk factor. Do we begin to approach one life altering catastrophe per 40k people vaxxed? 20k people vaxxed? Are we still at liberty to call this "safe"? Remember, I am beginning with the CDC's statement which asserts roughly 1 in 77k get heart damage.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-pauses-use-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-young-men-2021-10-07/

 

Oh look, The British Medical Journal actually did do an observational study on thrombocytopenia events (a condition relating to low platelet count in your blood). They found the following:

 

"The researchers then compared rates of thrombosis and of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia between the adenovirus vaccines (Oxford-AstraZeneca or Janssen/Johnson & Johnson) and the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) within 28 days after vaccination.

Overall, 1.3 million first dose Oxford-AstraZeneca recipients were matched to 2.1 million Pfizer-BioNTech recipients from Germany and the UK.

A total of 862 thrombocytopenia events were found in the matched first dose Oxford-AstraZeneca recipients from Germany and the UK, and 520 events after a first dose of Pfizer-BioNTech."

 

862 events in 1.3 million doses of AstraZeneca actually works out to 1 in 1,508. And 520 events in 2.1 million doses of Pfizer works out to 1 in 4038. These are the raw numbers of events in the 28 days following vaccination. Shall we get the input of @Duodenum to check this study?

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evidence-on-rare-blood-clotting-condition-after-covid-19-vaccination/

Edited May 31 by Xanlet

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, Xanlet said:

The cost would only go up based on the degree of risk associated with that liability. So what are you implying here? Perhaps the manufacturers are better positioned to gauge the risk than anyone? And they gauge it as equating a high cost?

 

Also, if these were so thoroughly tested and safe, why did many European countries halt use of Moderna in younger people after almost a year of roll out? In fact, according to wiki, "In June 2021, the US CDC confirmed that myocarditis or pericarditis occurs in about 13 of every 1 million young people, mostly male and over the age of 16, who received the Moderna or the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna_COVID-19_vaccine

 

For the math guys out there, that's one person having heart damage caused by the vax for every 76,923 people vaccinated. Or are the CDC a bunch of anti-vax conspiracy theorists? Also, this is literally only a single adverse reaction, what are the odds of blood clotting disorders and Guillain-Barre syndrome? You would have to add those as well to get the true risk factor. Do we begin to approach one life altering catastrophe per 40k people vaxxed? 20k people vaxxed? Are we still at liberty to call this "safe"? Remember, I am beginning with the CDC's statement which asserts roughly 1 in 77k get heart damage.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-pauses-use-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-young-men-2021-10-07/

 

Oh look, The British Medical Journal actually did do an observational study on thrombocytopenia events (a condition relating to low platelet count in your blood). They found the following:

 

"The researchers then compared rates of thrombosis and of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia between the adenovirus vaccines (Oxford-AstraZeneca or Janssen/Johnson & Johnson) and the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) within 28 days after vaccination.

Overall, 1.3 million first dose Oxford-AstraZeneca recipients were matched to 2.1 million Pfizer-BioNTech recipients from Germany and the UK.

A total of 862 thrombocytopenia events were found in the matched first dose Oxford-AstraZeneca recipients from Germany and the UK, and 520 events after a first dose of Pfizer-BioNTech."

 

862 events in 1.3 million doses of AstraZeneca actually works out to 1 in 1,508. And 520 events in 2.1 million doses of Pfizer works out to 1 in 4038. These are the raw numbers of events in the 28 days following vaccination. Shall we get the input of @Duodenum to check this study?

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evidence-on-rare-blood-clotting-condition-after-covid-19-vaccination/

 

What is it that you think you are proving? Say it in one sentence if you can.

[Xanlet]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

What is it that you think you are proving? Say it in one sentence if you can.

Trials were rushed, public misled, pharma got rich. If you'll permit me another sentence: There is now ample evidence that, particularly for younger males, the vaccines present very real and present risks of serious harm, not to mention the essentially non-existent benefit due to the virus not posing any higher risk than the flu for a young person and the fact that the jab doesn't prevent the spread.

[Satchmo]

6 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

Trials were rushed, public misled, pharma got rich. If you'll permit me another sentence: There is now ample evidence that, particularly for younger males, the vaccines present very real and present risks of serious harm, not to mention the essentially non-existent benefit due to the virus not posing any higher risk than the flu for a young person and the fact that the jab doesn't prevent the spread.

Out of all those points I can agree pharma got rich(er).  The rest of it is speculation for which you have provided no credible proof.

 

Don't bother responding.  To me anyway.  I'm about to put you on ignore.

[Xanlet]

Just now, Satchmo said:

Out of all those points I can agree pharma got rich(er).  The rest of it is speculation for which you have provided no credible proof.

 

Don't bother responding.  To me anyway.  I'm about to put you on ignore.

The CDC isn't credible? The British Medical Journal isn't credible? Stick you head in the sand if you wish, but the risk level for the covid jab exists and is so high that many European countries restrict them to only people who are at higher risk from the virus (elderly people, remember the average age of death from covid is 83.8 in Canada, and if the average is that high you can imagine how few deaths are at the younger ages).

 

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91f0015m/91f0015m2021002-eng.htm

 

Or is Statistics Canada, the official government statistics body, not credible either?