Vaccine thread

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

I don't know. I definitely can only handle this thread for so long. lol

 

I guess it's a great thread if you want a bunch of easy wins against anti-vaxxers? Yet, depressing to think that they go through life that paranoid.

 

 

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

 

 

 

Poor guy even started with half his pawns missing and is still winning without even needing to strategise.

[StrayDog]

14 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

"may show faster decay of viral loads and remain infectious for shorter periods of time"

 

If you follow the link from to the study, this statement is based on a study which followed 218 people. That small of a sample size does not give very high confidence to the results.

 

And yet again, if it slows the spread, why isn't a slower case growth associated with highly vaccinated areas? As I referenced before, if you examine huge numbers of countries and different US counties, there is no association between high vaccination rates and a slow of covid case growth.

Ok, but the part that I bolded linked to studies that had a sample sizes of 754, 146243, and 661315. Is that better sample sizes? 

In population-based studies, vaccines have continued to provide protection against infection with the delta variant, but to a lesser degree than against infection with the alpha variant.

 

[bolt]

2 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Ok, but the part that I bolded linked to studies that had a sample sizes of 754, 146243, and 661315. Is that better sample sizes? 

In population-based studies, vaccines have continued to provide protection against infection with the delta variant, but to a lesser degree than against infection with the alpha variant.

 

People still test for covid?  

[StrayDog]

Just now, bolt said:

People still test for covid?  

They did for the studies that are being posted in this thread. I would guess they still are in any other ongoing studies.

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, bolt said:

People still test for covid?  

Not as many as a few years ago but it's still a wise thing to do if you are feeling ill and you have a test kit handy.

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, bolt said:

People still test for covid?  

He says ignoring the 5-6 other posts calling him to task for his posts

[Warhippy]

28 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

I don't know. I definitely can only handle this thread for so long. lol

 

I guess it's a great thread if you want a bunch of easy wins against anti-vaxxers? Yet, depressing to think that they go through life that paranoid.

I don't want easy wins.  Not where peoples lives and our democratic processes and freedoms are at risk.  I want people to own their hypocrisy and lies.  Just a simple admittance that hey, maybe they're wrong would be a start

Edited June 10 by Warhippy

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I don't want easy wins.  Not where peoples lives and our democratic processes and freedoms are at risk.  I want people to own their hypocrisy and lies.  Just a simple admittance that hey, maybe they're wrong would be a start

 

I totally get that.

 

In fact, if these people had legitimate proof, I would fully be willing to listen and maybe even change my view. The problem is pretty much all of this "evidence" has more holes than swiss cheese.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

and said I'd rather shit in my hands and clap

 

I hope you don't mind if I borrow that one some day.  Golden!  

[Warhippy]

Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

I hope you don't mind if I borrow that one some day.  Golden!  

Go ahead, i borrowed it from somewhere too

[the destroyer of worlds]

8,000 participants.  Again, a larger sample size compared to other clinical trials.  Yes, the trial was of older patients as they are most likely to get ongoing flu and covid shots.  But this is the future.  Moderna also trialed a mRNA flu vaccine that completed its Phase 3 last year.  

 

mRNA jabs and treatments are coming.  Tested.  Safe.  And work.  

 

Get pancreatic cancer and you'd be begging for the mRNA treatment that is in phased trials right now.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck55l4rk8z1o

Two-in-one flu and Covid jab passes advanced trial

[Bob Long]

23 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

8,000 participants.  Again, a larger sample size compared to other clinical trials.  Yes, the trial was of older patients as they are most likely to get ongoing flu and covid shots.  But this is the future.  Moderna also trialed a mRNA flu vaccine that completed its Phase 3 last year.  

 

mRNA jabs and treatments are coming.  Tested.  Safe.  And work.  

 

Get pancreatic cancer and you'd be begging for the mRNA treatment that is in phased trials right now.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck55l4rk8z1o

Two-in-one flu and Covid jab passes advanced trial

 

we just need to find a new term, like 'freedom jab' that the hoopleheads will like.

 

mRNA treatments have so much potential, the cancer treatment studies are really promising. I bet when one of these clowns gets sick, they'll run to it. 

 

[Xanlet]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

14 billion injections.  633k VAERs events.

 

vs

 

704 million infected.  7 million dead.  675 million recovered or 7 million dead and 22 million suffering severe and or debilitating long term effects from covid for 29 million total individuals dead or suffering long term from covid.

 

What's that math look like again Mr sample size?  Does it inspire confidence?

The total deaths for all of Canada in 2020 from Covid was 15,651 out of a population of 38 million, and the average age of those passing from Covid was 83.8 years old.

 

In other words, there was almost a non-existent threat to young people from Covid, and a 1 in 3,686 chance of a moderate to severe adverse event from the vaccine if you got fully vaccinated with 1 booster.

 

Sorry, the math is pretty clear, the calculation just is not favorable for young people to take the jab.

[Ghostsof1915]

 

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

The total deaths for all of Canada in 2020 from Covid was 15,651 out of a population of 38 million, and the average age of those passing from Covid was 83.8 years old.

 

In other words, there was almost a non-existent threat to young people from Covid, and a 1 in 3,686 chance of a moderate to severe adverse event from the vaccine if you got fully vaccinated with 1 booster.

 

Sorry, the math is pretty clear, the calculation just is not favorable for young people to take the jab.

Are you using Canadian statistics when it benefits you and European statistics when that does?  Canadian statistics would definitely be good for you to use here because we really did handle things pretty well.  Start adding numbers from USA, Brazil, India and elsewhere and the stats will change considerably. 

[Xanlet]

Just now, Satchmo said:

Are you using Canadian statistics when it benefits you and European statistics when that does?  Canadian statistics would definitely be good for you to use here because we really did handle things pretty well.  Start adding numbers from USA, Brazil, India and elsewhere and the stats will change considerably. 

Would you like to provide the average age of death from Covid for other countries or do you prefer to make vague references without any data?

[Warhippy]

15 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

The total deaths for all of Canada in 2020 from Covid was 15,651 out of a population of 38 million, and the average age of those passing from Covid was 83.8 years old.

 

In other words, there was almost a non-existent threat to young people from Covid, and a 1 in 3,686 chance of a moderate to severe adverse event from the vaccine if you got fully vaccinated with 1 booster.

 

Sorry, the math is pretty clear, the calculation just is not favorable for young people to take the jab.

Lol you're intentionally ignoring ALL of the other data because you know you don't have the credibility or questionable links to even approach arguing it.

 

Cute

 

Almost 30 million dead or seriously affected by contracting COVID.  Out of 705 million.  

 

How's the math stack up there chief?

Edited June 10 by Warhippy

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Xanlet said:

Would you like to provide the average age of death from Covid for other countries or do you prefer to make vague references without any data?

No, I'd like to just talk about death in general.  (That's an odd sentence to type). 

 

Warhippy made a post about world wide death rates and you respond with a comment about average age in Canada?

[Xanlet]

3 hours ago, StrayDog said:

Ok, but the part that I bolded linked to studies that had a sample sizes of 754, 146243, and 661315. Is that better sample sizes? 

In population-based studies, vaccines have continued to provide protection against infection with the delta variant, but to a lesser degree than against infection with the alpha variant.

 

Two things, one is that their conclusion reads: " One hypothesized mechanism is that viral loads observed in persons infected with the alpha variant after vaccination^7,13 are lower than those among unvaccinated persons, and the viral load is associated with the likelihood of infection in contacts". This seems to be challenged by other studies which found viral loads to be similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

 

Second, I ask again, if the vaccines slow the spread, why does that not show up in the case data? If vaccines slowed the spread, logically, you should see slower spread in highly vaccinated ares and higher spread on lowly vaccinated areas, but that is not the case. There is no difference in case level growth with different levels of vaccination in the populations. How do you account for this?

[Xanlet]

Just now, Satchmo said:

No, I'd like to just talk about death in general.  (That's an odd sentence to type). 

 

Warhippy made a post about world wide death rates and you respond with a comment about average age in Canada?

My position in this whole thread has been that the calculation of risk and benefit is drastically different for young people vs old people. It may well be that older people benefit from the vaccine, but younger people almost certainly are at higher risk from the vaccine than the virus.

[Satchmo]

Just now, Xanlet said:

My position in this whole thread has been that the calculation of risk and benefit is drastically different for young people vs old people. It may well be that older people benefit from the vaccine, but younger people almost certainly are at higher risk from the vaccine than the virus.

Once again you answer a question with a manifesto.

 

Warhippy made a post about world wide death rates and you respond with a comment about average age in Canada?

 

 

 

[Xanlet]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Lol you're intentionally ignoring ALL of the other data because you know you don't have the credibility or questionable links to even approach arguing it.

 

Cute

 

Almost 30 million dead or seriously affected by contracting COVID.  Out of 705 million.  

 

How's the math stack up there chief?

How many of those who passed away were vaccinated? Between December 2020 and September 2022, more than half of those passing away in Canada had been vaccinated. Remember, the vaccines aren't a golden ticket, they merely reduce the risk to some degree and also carrying a risk of their own to some degree. This is why a calculation is important to determine who is actually benefited from taking it

 

 

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/archive/2022-10-21/cases-following-vaccination.html

[the destroyer of worlds]

12 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

How many of those who passed away were vaccinated? Between December 2020 and September 2022, more than half of those passing away in Canada had been vaccinated. Remember, the vaccines aren't a golden ticket, they merely reduce the risk to some degree and also carrying a risk of their own to some degree. This is why a calculation is important to determine who is actually benefited from taking it

 

 

 

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/archive/2022-10-21/cases-following-vaccination.html

 

 

I find it hilarious that you can make this statement and not realize the every vaccine ever qualifies for this statement as well.  EVERY SINGLE ONE.

[Xanlet]

34 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

 

 

I find it hilarious that you can make this statement and not realize the every vaccine ever qualifies for this statement as well.  EVERY SINGLE ONE.

This is why it's important to actually gauge the risk factors so that people who have a higher risk from the vaccine than from the virus do not take it.

 

Simply claiming a total number of deaths does not help with the calculation. What helps is knowing which factors make a person more or less at risk from the virus and the vaccine so that we can make a judgement on the comparative risks.

 

The evidence is overwhelming that there is a huge difference in risk for older people than younger people. For instance, here is a resource which shows that 80% of fatalities from Covid were in people 65 years of age or older in the USA. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-share-of-people-who-have-died-of-covid-19-are-65-and-older-and-how-does-it-vary-by-state/

 

In Canada, it seems that for 2020, 14,140 deaths from Covid were those over the age of 65 (the total deaths from Covid were 15,651).  This means across all of Canada for the whole year of 2020, a total of 1,511 people under the age of 65 passed away from Covid. (That means roughly 90% of fatalities from Covid were over 65 years old) If I have more time, I'll see if I can find a further breakdown, because if I had to guess I'd hypothesize a lot of that number were at the older side of the allowed range. https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases-maladies/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/epidemiological-economic-research-data/excess-mortality-impacts-age-comorbidity/covid-19-deaths-older-canadians-en.pdf

 

Again, it is concerning that many people were killed by the virus, any decent person would want it to be 0. My point is that this is a product which has a certain risk profile, and the benefits are almost entirely confined to elderly populations. Thus, the calculation is not favorable for younger people to take it.

Edited June 10 by Xanlet