This trade just sucks

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Don’t underestimate how important Joshua has been, the Garland-Joshua pair has bee Tocch’s go to when he needs a shift. 

 

This is the key.

Soucy being out has also been a factor.

[Breadnbutta]

Terrible thread, is it Lindholms fault that Hughes has taken a huge step back? Is it Lindholm's fault that Hronek forgot to play defense? Is it Lindholms fault that Pettersson is a shell of his former self? Is it Lindholms fault that Soucy and Joshua are injured?

 

Come on man, the team is slumping. 

 

Any GM in the league would have added Lindholm, there's a reason why every single analyst pundit and so called expert had him at the top of their trade board.

 

This thread sucks

[RU SERIOUS]

34 minutes ago, occ78 said:

I actually liked kuzmenko because he has that burst of speed and someone that is not predictable like the rest of the team jexcept hoglander) 

 

they gave him and one of our top prospect plus picks for this.. and it’s only rental? screwed up the team chemistry 

 

kuzmenko reminded me bit of Pavel Bure and this is what we needed, or a winger that can accommodate Pettersson 

Power skilled winger like Tuch(not easy I know), Toffoli we let him walk….. instead they kept Pearson?  WTH, 

or someone similar to these guys not soft lindholm 

 

also give the man a credit, the only reason why Hughes is playing the way is because of Hronek 

he is so calm with the puck and makes quinn go out and do his stuff 

before this dumb trade Hronek was playing much better too, actually entire team did 

 

 

 

 

Agree that Tock-it has tried to make a "one size fit all" regime for the entire team instead of taking advantage of and milking each players natural abilities.  Kuzmenko was a natural scorer and while he may not have been the best defensively - meeting RT's exact expectations - he should not have been traded while guys like Mik have done zilch for us since last fall and no complaints from the coach.    Why?

[Highstickin]

7 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Agree that Tock-it has tried to make a "one size fit all" regime for the entire team instead of taking advantage of and milking each players natural abilities.  Kuzmenko was a natural scorer and while he may not have been the best defensively - meeting RT's exact expectations - he should not have been traded while guys like Mik have done zilch for us since last fall and no complaints from the coach.    Why?

Kuzmenko's TOI in Calgary has been virtually identical to when he was in Van which to me means the coaches in Calgary trust him about as much as Tock. Van also cleared 750,000 more off the cap by moving him over Mik and they bring about the same value to the team. 

 

Also, what leads people to believe that Kuzy was a "natural goal scorer"? Yes he had one big year here but even his KHL stats don't really point to a massive goal scorer. He had 85G in 315GP meaning a .27G/GP. If you work that out to an 82 game season that only 22 goals (which is hardly a natural goal scorer in my mind). 

 

I think we need to be careful of overvaluing someone that had a massive year due to the environment he was playing in. Teams that cannot play defense don't win championships.  

[DSVII]

Come this offseason you'll have a different opinion, because we have an extra $5.5M to play with due to this trade.

 

As for the on ice results, you're seeing what happens when not everything goes right for the team. Losing Soucy and Joshua has disrupted the chemistry and our top guns are showing signs of fatigue having to carry the team play all season to #1 in the league. Gotta see how the team does when we get those two back and balance out the TOI.

 

Step away from the ledge.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, BabychStache said:

I don't know why Toch isn't putting the Lotto line back together. That creates immediate swagger. 

He did during the latter part of yesterday's game. Didn't amount to much.

[PureQuickness]

2 hours ago, BabychStache said:

I don't know why Toch isn't putting the Lotto line back together. That creates immediate swagger. 

 

I think he knows the Lotto line works. We have a bit of a cushion now to try new things IN CASE that Lotto line fails gets countered. We have this luxury.

 

I don't necessarily agree with the roster changes, but Tocchet has PROVEN that he is a much better coach than what Green ever was (I know I'm going a bit off topic by mentioning Green). Even if Tocc says he's friends with Greener.

 

Green didn't have any planning involved with his roster decisions, or if he did, he'd do his mindless line juggling that would go nowhere. We never had one winning season under Green. With Tocchet, we had half a season of a disaster year and a full one with GOOD stats. Tocc is playing hockey the right way and is holding players accountable. Green never did that.

 

I'm just comparing two coaches that supposedly coach similarly.

[PureQuickness]

43 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Agree that Tock-it has tried to make a "one size fit all" regime for the entire team instead of taking advantage of and milking each players natural abilities.  Kuzmenko was a natural scorer and while he may not have been the best defensively - meeting RT's exact expectations - he should not have been traded while guys like Mik have done zilch for us since last fall and no complaints from the coach.    Why?

 

Mikheyev doesn't score, but at least he's usable elsewhere. Kuzmenko is more one-dimensional. I'm not sure what else I could tell you. I don't hate Kuzzy. I think he's a great personality in the room, but he was clearly not on the same page with Tocchet. Who's to say that Kuzmenko didn't want out?

Edited March 1 by PureQuickness

[Integra250]

Don't be so short-sighted. These are the types of trade that will pay dividends when it matters, in the playoffs. We need a Selke-type shut down center and got one in Lindholm. Yes he hasn't shown much thus far but he's been thrown into a new team with new teammates and systems, and has had to play a bunch of games due to our lousy schedule without much down or practice time. The team is struggling as a whole but so are many of the "top teams" in the league right now. 

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Mikheyev doesn't score, but at least he's usable elsewhere. Kuzmenko is more one-dimensional. I'm not sure what else I could tell you. I don't hate Kuzzy. I think he's a great personality in the room, but he was clearly not on the same page with Tocchet. Who's to say that Kuzmenko didn't want out?

Mikeyev's "use" elsewhere hasn't amounted to much in the past 30 games. At $1-2M per season, he'd be a decent player, but at the $4.75M he's underperforming. Some have said that he's still recovering from his injury, but his skating and movement don't allude to such an excuse. And if he is still recovering, he shouldn't be playing, which I don't think Tocc, Alvin, or Rutherford would allow. 

[PhillipBlunt]

9 hours ago, occ78 said:

Bringing lindholm made the team worse and gave up all that assets including #1 pick 

 

He's been moved between lines since he arrived. Hasn't has the chance to establish chemistry with a line. The team has also been sucking lately, so the lines have been getting mixed.

[canuck73_3]

The knee jerkiest of knee jerks 

[Komodo0921]

9 hours ago, occ78 said:

Bringing lindholm made the team worse and gave up all that assets including #1 pick 

 

I always hate deadline deals. More often then not, they become regrets.

This one, however  wasn't extremely costly, and was done earlier, in order to give EL more time to adjust to his new team. 

Thirteen games is, imo, not enough  time to get  a good read on his fit.

I'm not panicing.

[Canuck You]

This 1 thoroughly thought out sentence just couldn't have been posted in Lindholm trade thread?

[Shekky]

Sure Canucks are on a slump right now it was kind of overdue really but once these guys learn how to fix the problems they will be deadly in the playoffs.

[Darius]

He looked pretty good playing on a line with EP and Hogz.  Was defensively excellent in the Boston game.

 

Can we really expect much offence from him on a line with Bains?  When it comes down to it hes a defensive minded 50-60 pt C, not a miracle man.

[Elias Pettersson]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

The trade in itself doesn't suck.  

 

What sucks is that Tocchet et al have gone out of their way to try and address a problem that never existed in the first place.

 

All was good in the Paradise City 5-6 weeks ago.  The grass was green, the men were pretty, and the egg rolls were swinging freely past the knees so to speak.  

 

Our 2nd line was struggling, but we were still getting both primary and secondary scoring courtesy of the Lotto Line and Bluegar/Garland line.   Our 4th line with Hoglander, Aman, and Lafferty were also doing well.

 

All we really needed for that 2nd line, with the acquisition of Lindholm, was to be an elite shut down line.  Mikheyev, Suter, and Lindholm are all exceptional defensively and are more than capable of taking on the toughest defensive assignments (even if they are offensively challenged).    

 

Instead - we broke up the Lotto line and are driving around under the false assumption that Petey is a bus driver a la Matthews/McDavid/MacKinnon.  He's not!  Him and Lindholm aren't a good 2nd line.  

 

If the Canucks want to do well again, you need to put Pettersson's face straight in Miller's crotch where it belongs.  Reunite the Lotto line + put PDG with Bluegar/Garland until Joshua gets back (for the physical presence), and make Lindholm/Suter/Mikheyev an elite shut down line.  

 

Make Canucks Great Again.

 

Auston Matthews isn't a play driver.  He gets paid to score goals.  He has 25 assists.  Petey has 46 assists.  So they aren't even close in terms of play driving.

 

Yes, we did have a problem.  The problem was that Kuzmenko doesn't know how to play defense.  And it looks like Calgary has also figured that out.  So, Conroy isn't as smart as some people think.  Kuzmenko won't be easy to move next year, they may not get much for him.  And our 1st round pick will be a very low first.  Hunter B may not even play in the NHL, and if he does he may be Tyson Barrie 2.0.

 

In terms of Lindholm, he may not be a 40 goal scorer any longer, but he is elite defensively.  He can easily be our 3C long term.  He's not going to get $8 million if he puts up 50 points this year.  $6 million would be the maximum I think.  

 

As for chemistry, I don't think that is the problem.  The problem right now is we are tired and worn out and that 9 game home stand is looking real good right now. Also, missing Joshua is bigger than some people think.  Our 3rd line is not the same without him.  He is more important than Garland.

[Don Brodka Jr]

 

9 hours ago, occ78 said:

Bringing lindholm made the team worse and gave up all that assets including #1 pick 

 

Without a doubt the Absolute WORST kind of Canuck fans. my god! I thought I was bad..
Did you really expect them not to have a rough patch all year? They weren't going to finish the season at a 80% win clip.

A good thing to remember.. It's a LONG season.. Take away Vancouver's best Run & take away their worst run.. Everything else your left will tell you everything you need to know about this team.. 
I mean, anything can happen come playoff time.. but this team will be just fine!
Go roll a joint of BC's finest & take a walk bud! You'll be alright too!

[-AJ-]

Correlation does not equal causation, my friend.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

5 minutes ago, Darius said:

He looked pretty good playing on a line with EP and Hogz.  Was defensively excellent in the Boston game.

 

Can we really expect much offence from him on a line with Bains?  When it comes down to it hes a defensive minded 50-60 pt C, not a miracle man.

The fact we had to put him on his own line because he was dragging down both Miller and EP's lines when on them, is a massive problem. He is coasting offensively. Last to the puck, very easy to check, doesn't battle in the corners or on the boards. He has been outstanding defensively though, imo. Not because of his physicality, but because of his stick positioning and IQ. 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, Darius said:

He looked pretty good playing on a line with EP and Hogz.  Was defensively excellent in the Boston game.

 

Can we really expect much offence from him on a line with Bains?  When it comes down to it hes a defensive minded 50-60 pt C, not a miracle man.

 

Lindholm is an elite defensive 50-60 point player as you are saying.  I'd love to have him as our 3C moving forward.  He won't get $8 million.  If we can lock him up to a $5.5 million long term deal I would be quite happy with that.

 

He will be great in the playoffs checking the other teams top lines and freeing up Miller and Petey for offence.  If we go Miller, Petey, Lindholm, Blueger down the middle that is the way to go for the playoffs.  We just need to sort out the wingers.  Another top 6 winger is needed.

[Pears]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I wonder if PA flips Lindholm at the deadline and gets a proper center. Lindholm for Henrique straight up who says no?

I sincerely doubt management is interested in treating their players like pokemon cards, let alone moving a just acquired player for a significantly lesser one. Not sure if the Pettersson or Lindholm overreactions are worse. 

[Darius]

2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

The fact we had to put him on his own line because he was dragging down both Miller and EP's lines when on them, is a massive problem. He is coasting offensively. Last to the puck, very easy to check, doesn't battle in the corners or on the boards. He has been outstanding defensively though, imo. Not because of his physicality, but because of his stick positioning and IQ. 

Can you post some proof that he was put on his own line because he was dragging down EP?  Or is this  your interpretation?

 

Coach has come out more than once and said he likes having the centers spread out on their own lines.

[CanuckMan]

In a sense Lindholms decline in points might be good for us in re-signing him to a more affordable contract. We will most likely lose Bluegar in the off season and Suter the year after that. Don’t really have any bonafide C prospects coming up anytime soon from the looks of it. Wouldn’t hurt to keep Lindholm around 

[Darius]

5 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

In a sense Lindholms decline in points might be good for us in re-signing him to a more affordable contract. We will most likely lose Bluegar in the off season and Suter the year after that. Don’t really have any bonafide C prospects coming up anytime soon from the looks of it. Wouldn’t hurt to keep Lindholm around 

Id like to see what he can do with Joshua and Garland.  Despite his slowdown in points in the past 4 or 5 games I think he has more offensive upside than Blueger.

 

Having Blueger on the 4th line improves the 4c position too.