Goose Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Just now, HKSR said: Just going off of your approach. Ignore points, look at play style ... if play style similar = player comparable regardless of how big a difference in production. Therefore, value is similar. Debrusk = Buchnevich. Goldobin = Kaprizov. Well to start Goldobin isnt even in the NHL so your attempt to reason by analogy is severely flawed. Kudos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete13 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, HKSR said: There's talks about flipping Lindholm to BOS for assets to acquire Guentzel. Why not flip Lindholm to BOS for assets to acquire Buchnevich? At least Buchnevich wouldn't be a rental. At $5.8M this year and next, it'd give us even more options to add if we move Mikheyev as well. To BOS Lindholm To VAN Debrusk Lysell 1st then To VAN Buchnevich To STL Debrusk Lysell Klimovich or Mcdonough 1st Then package Mikheyev++ for Pettersson or Graves out of PIT. Buchnevich-Petey-Hoglander Suter-Miller-Boeser Joshua-Blueger-Garland Podkolzin-Aman-Lafferty Hughes-Hronek Graves-Zadorov (oof, this would be a nasty pair to play against) Soucy-Myers Cole-Juulsen Plan the parade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, AngryGoose said: Well to start Goldobin isnt even in the NHL so your attempt to reason by analogy is severely flawed. Kudos Doesn't matter as long as their play style is similar. Blueger and JT Miller play a similar style too... So if you don't like my first analogy, then Blueger = JT Miller. Similar playstyle. Doesn't matter that one guy has 23 points and the other 83 points. Play style is what matters. Don't look at the stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 20 minutes ago, AngryGoose said: its literally just hypothetical trade discussion in a Canucks Fan forum. How is that difficult to understand? I do understand that.What i dont understand why so negative when talking about something might be or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Just now, HKSR said: Doesn't matter as long as their play style is similar. Blueger and JT Miller play a similar style too... So if you don't like my first analogy, then Blueger = JT Miller. Similar playstyle. Doesn't matter that one guy has 23 points and the other 83 points. Play style is what matters. Don't look at the stats. It does matter. How I evaluate Buch and Debrusk is based on how Ive seen play/perform vs NHL competition. I could be wrong but like Ive said before (twice actually) I dont see a huge gulf (n terms of how they play) btw them. Buch may be a better regular season producer, but Debrusk might be a better playoff type of player. Bleugar and JT and similar eh? just like Goldy and Kaprisov huh? Anyways… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, AngryGoose said: It does matter. How I evaluate Buch and Debrusk is based on how Ive seen play/perform vs NHL competition. I could be wrong but like Ive said before (twice actually) I dont see a huge gulf (n terms of how they play) btw them. Buch may be a better regular season producer, but Debrusk might be a better playoff type of player. Bleugar and JT and similar eh? just like Goldy and Kaprisov huh? Anyways… You are completing ignoring the most important aspect of a player's value... their production. The 'gulf' that you refer to is nearly 30 points between them. That's very significant. Not sure why you're bringing up playoffs. Buchnevich has only had 1 true playoff run. He was almost a PPG. Debrusk has had several playoff runs and is about a 0.5 PPG player. This is reflective of their regular season performance. You're out to lunch on this one bud. There's no way your argument stands here when the 'gulf' between 2 players is 30ish points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, HKSR said: You are completing ignoring the most important aspect of a player's value... their production. The 'gulf' that you refer to is nearly 30 points between them. That's very significant. Not sure why you're bringing up playoffs. Buchnevich has only had 1 true playoff run. He was almost a PPG. Debrusk has had several playoff runs and is about a 0.5 PPG player. This is reflective of their regular season performance. You're out to lunch on this one bud. There's no way your argument stands here when the 'gulf' between 2 players is 30ish points. Again, in terms of how they play. That’s the “gulf” Im referring to and what you seem to be misinterpreting/not understanding. You wanted to massively overpay for Buch. That may (or may not) be his true trade value. That’s fine. I wouldnt do it and discussed why. To reiterate, I dont see a huge difference in terms of how they play. But thats just me. The only thing thats out to lunch is your reading comprehension and reasoning ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, AngryGoose said: Again, in terms of how they play. That’s the “gulf” Im referring to and what you seem to be misinterpreting/not understanding. You wanted to massively overpay for Buch. That may (or may not) be his true trade value. That’s fine. I wouldnt do it and discussed why. To reiterate, I dont see a huge difference in terms of how they play. But thats just me. The only thing thats out to lunch is your reading comprehension and reasoning ability. This all stemmed from the value in trade for Buchnevich. If we're talking value, we're talking the 'gulf' in value = 'gulf' in production. Your rationalization of a 40 point guy and a 70 point guy being similar value based on play alone is ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, HKSR said: This all stemmed from the value in trade for Buchnevich. If we're talking value, we're talking the 'gulf' in value = 'gulf' in production. Your rationalization of a 40 point guy and a 70 point guy being similar value based on play alone is ludicrous. Quote me where I say both, on their own are similar trade value? You proposed VAN gets Debrusk, Lysell and a 1st from BOS which then goes to STL to STL for Buch. Ive been discussing the entire time that I wouldnt move all that for Buch when you just got a comparable type of player in Debrusk and one Id even lean toward being a similar or even better playoff performer. Again, comparable in terms of how they play NOT TRADE VALUE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWestNuck Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: This all stemmed from the value in trade for Buchnevich. If we're talking value, we're talking the 'gulf' in value = 'gulf' in production. Your rationalization of a 40 point guy and a 70 point guy being similar value based on play alone is ludicrous. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, NorthWestNuck said: lol yet another one who lacks reading comprehension wtg champ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, R3aL said: How could he not be? LH bumper spot Pp guy top unit pker 2 way scoring winger he would fit very well stylistically with Petey I think. i would be curious to try: Hoglander-Miller-Boeser Buchnevich-Petey-Podkolzin Joshua-Lindholm-Garland PDG/Aman-Blueger-Lafferty but I don’t know what we could trade for him. Mikehyev a first and a prospect? Maybe had rights to mason raymond Prospect no higher than Raty and I would take that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Yeah, that's fine, but I'm going with the overall body of work. Buchnevich has proven consistently what he's capable of. Even in this 'down' year, he's on pace for 66 points. Debrusk is on pace for 39 points. Am I seriously the only one here that thinks this is nuts? That someone is actually insinuating that Debrusk and Buchnevich are comparable in terms of value?? Well, depends on whether your including all aspects. I don't have time to look at both their contracts, but if Buch is paid considerably more, then you would have to consider that both their cap hits are commensurate to their points, which would make them "similar" players in that regard. Also, if one guy is physical, or kills penalties etc and the other guy doesn't, then the value of the player is more than just stats. All that considered I agree with you that there's likely no argument that can be made that a 66pt player is equal to a 39pt player. But there could be an argument that they are similar, if other factors are considered and they are accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 No thanks on Buchnevich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Captkirk888 said: Poor Puis doesn’t get to play no more… Haha oh my poor guy was an after thought. too excited by podz debut and hoglanders progressions and the idea of a new acquisition how silly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 4 minutes ago, Western Red said: No thanks on Buchnevich. Why not? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I like the idea of this. if Mikheyev is going the other way. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, N4ZZY said: Why not? He doesn't move the needle for me as much as some. The return may be Podkolzin and I am not ok with that at ALL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, Canucks said: I like the idea of this. if Mikheyev is going the other way. Pods + Mik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Vanderhoek Posted March 6 Popular Post Share Posted March 6 39 minutes ago, Western Red said: Pods + Mik Thing is the team will need the Podkolzin, Raty, Bains types next season when some of the UFA talent moves on to better contracts. Really see Podkolzin as a piece moving forward here, just like Hoglander. 1 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Thing is the team will need the Podkolzin, Raty, Bains types next season when some of the UFA talent moves on to better contracts. Really see Podkolzin as a piece moving forward here, just like Hoglander. Exactly. I hope JR and PA see it the same as you and I. But we know how disposable players the previous regime acquired can be to a new regime. Hopefully there is enough personnel involved in drafting Podkolzin remaining to temper this common tendency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 You know what'd make this value debate even more riveting? Lets talk about their taxes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, JeremyCuddles said: You know what'd make this value debate even more riveting? Lets talk about their taxes. Can we throw in a discussion of that arch thingy in st Louis? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Podkolzin + Milky should get it done and we get a top line forward and do not have to move Lindholm and then we are good Miller Petey Brock Buchsy Lindy Hogz. (talk about a dynamite 2nd line) Joshua Bluegger Garland Lafferty Suter Kessel PDG that's SC forward group right there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamer4GM Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 33 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Can we throw in a discussion of that arch thingy in st Louis? Maybe JR could persuade FA to reopen the Marble Arch on Richards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.