[Speculation] 3 way trade possibility between VAN, PIT, BOS

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

'd love to hear their analysis of whats really missing to make this team hard to play against

The clones of Curt Fraser and Gerald Diduck or Harold Snepts

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Vatrano or PB? has to be lower cost than JG. 

 

Vatrano would he neat but I wouldn't be surprised if the Ducks opt to extend him

 

Gotta have some talent to play with the young guys

[PureQuickness]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Lmfao you guys all sat here bitching and crying endlessly about Benning when he fucked up signing guys like Eriksson, Beagle and Roussel WHILE REBUILDING, that took nothing away from us being in a conversation of contending… and then you turn a complete blindeye to the amount of fuck ups while we are in a window of contention?! THESE ARE THE MISTAKES THAT COST A TEAM A CUP AND SEND YOU TO A REBUILD FASTER.

 

Unfortunately, this is a correct assessment.

 

Although this management has done much better than most other ones, it seems that they have finally made a big mistake. Previously other mistakes were small in scale.

 

However you're especially right about ignoring mistakes. We've seen mistakes made by Gillis and Benning. Many people would choose to ignore the mistakes by Gillis with respect to drafting, or downplay them entirely, whereas they will scrutinize the mistakes made by Benning. It's hypocritical to do that.

 

Gillis for all his successes deserves to be criticized more for draining the prospect pool. We are not there yet wit this management as they have made some really really solid moves. But we cannot start making excuses.

 

Like it or not, the core was set up by Benning. This new management has validated it several times over, from their initial assessment that their defense (when healthy) can be good. The same defense that everyone else had been criticizing.

 

IMO Gillis did well, but had a much easier job with a core handed down by Nonis and Burke. Credit should be due for his moves of course, but when one saw the rebuild phase, Gillis failed tremendously. Poor draft picking, poor roster assessments, poor coaching. That was all management.

 

Edited March 7 by PureQuickness

[JayDangles]

27 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

tbh its pretty amazing what JR/PA have done to turn this team into regular season winners.

 

I'd love to hear their analysis of whats really missing to make this team hard to play against in the playoffs. Do we really need JG? maybe. But I could see a number of lesser additions being great for us too. Look at Joshua e.g., and how effective he can be in the right system. Maybe we don't need to go all in on one dude?

 

The closer the deadline approaches, and learning more about the cost to acquire a JG type player, I'm definitely leaning more towards moving 3rd-5th round pics, and some B prospects to acquire 2 larger wingers that can play big and withstand the grind of the playoffs.

I completely agree a really tough to play against 3rd and 4th line can create tons of room for our top lines and wear down opponents. Our 3rd line was basically carrying the entire team for the 2nd half of January.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

The closer the deadline approaches, and learning more about the cost to acquire a JG type player, I'm definitely leaning more towards moving 3rd-5th round pics, and some B prospects to acquire 2 larger wingers that can play big and withstand the grind of the playoffs.

I completely agree a really tough to play against 3rd and 4th line can create tons of room for our top lines and wear down opponents. Our 3rd line was basically carrying the entire team for the 2nd half of January.

 

Patience. Prices will come down.

 

I'd happily add both personally. We need a running mate for Petey, and some more grit that can play. Some added D depth possibly as well.

[Blitz-Pix]

39 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

tbh its pretty amazing what JR/PA have done to turn this team into regular season winners.

 

I'd love to hear their analysis of whats really missing to make this team hard to play against in the playoffs. Do we really need JG? maybe. But I could see a number of lesser additions being great for us too. Look at Joshua e.g., and how effective he can be in the right system. Maybe we don't need to go all in on one dude?

 

 

I'd love a few smaller moves... a 6th - 8th D-man with size for depth, maybe a 4th liner with size and snarl (Greenway).

I think we're pretty good as constructed once we're healthy (with Dakota back). It'll help us get our lines back together. 

We have some prospects we can insert if we run into a few injuries here and there. 

 

Frankly all the teams got better and the playoffs are going to be a war of attrition. In the end it will probably come down to which goaltender is running hot at the time. I'd prefer we play Desmith more down the stretch and get Demko some rest & as much time with Ian Clarke as possible heading into the playoffs.

 

    

Edited March 7 by Blitz-Pix

[RWJC]

17 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Unfortunately, this is a correct assessment.

 

Although this management has done much better than most other ones, it seems that they have finally made a big mistake. Previously other mistakes were small in scale.

 

However you're especially right about ignoring mistakes. We've seen mistakes made by Gillis and Benning. Many people would choose to ignore the mistakes by Gillis with respect to drafting, or downplay them entirely, whereas they will scrutinize the mistakes made by Benning. It's hypocritical to do that.

 

Gillis for all his successes deserves to be criticized more for draining the prospect pool. We are not there yet wit this management as they have made some really really solid moves. But we cannot start making excuses.

 

Like it or not, the core was set up by Benning. This new management has validated it several times over, from their initial assessment that their defense (when healthy) can be good. The same defense that everyone else had been criticizing.

 

IMO Gillis did well, but had a much easier job with a core handed down by Nonis and Burke. Credit should be due for his moves of course, but when one saw the rebuild phase, Gillis failed tremendously. Poor draft picking, poor roster assessments, poor coaching. That was all management.

 

You may be counting the chickens before they hatch. The way to correctly gauge this will be post TDL and post playoffs. 
 

Unfortunately none of us know what has been discussed, we just like to pretend we do so that we can form an opinion.

 

Forsling just re-signed in FLA  at 5.75 x 8 years.  Is that another miscue by Benning who both drafted and traded him away…? How many years did JB run the org? And we’re shitting on this mgmt group under the assumption they’ve already made a mistake prior to it even potentially happening. I’m reserving my opinion until post season because that’s when it’s fair to review, not in the middle of a season and at the height of a frenzy where any team with a chance is looking to improve for the post and through whatever route they must take.

Edited March 7 by RWJC

[PureQuickness]

Just now, RWJC said:

You may be counting the chickens before they hatch. The way to correctly gauge this will be post TDL and post playoffs. 
 

Unfortunately none of know what has been discussed, we just like to pretend we do so that we can form an opinion.

 

Forsling just re-signed in FLA  at 5.75 x 8 years.  Is that another miscue by Benning who both drafted and traded him away…? How many years did JB run the org? And we’re shitting on this mgmt group under the assumption they’ve already made a mistake prior to it even potentially happening. I’m reserving my opinion until post season because that’s when it’s fair to review, not in the middle of a season and at the height of a frenzy where any team with a chance is looking to improve for the post. 

 

Forsling was traded early before the egg had hatched. Not much we can do there. At the time, there was a calculated decision to pick up Clendenning, a much more developed player in the AHLer. Bad scouting caused that miscue.

 

Same thing with the Lindholm trade. They thought he would fit in the system, but so far, he's not.

 

I understand why people get fired up as soon as people talk about Benning and all the mistakes he made. The point that some posters are trying to make is that coaching (Green) has been a significant contributor as to whether or not the draft picks succeed or not. To be perfectly fair, Green has done well in the bubble, but also to be fair, he has had MUCH BETTER ROSTERS for the most part, compared to Willie Desjardins. Yet both coaches have near IDENTICAL coaching records. We all know that WD is a lame duck coach. Green is in this same category.

 

We'll see what he does with the mess in NJ. So far his first line of business is to scratch 19 year Nemec. This is totally on par to Green. He punishes the young players before punishing the vets. It's crazy to me that nothing has changed. He did the same thing with Juolevi after he scored his first NHL goal. Green hasn't had one winning season on the Canucks. And it's Benning's mistake (perhaps a fatal one) to extend him.

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Patience. Prices will come down.

 

I'd happily add both personally. We need a running mate for Petey, and some more grit that can play. Some added D depth possibly as well.

 

I agree, but thats a heck of a list to get done in 24 hours. 

[JayDangles]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Lmfao you guys all sat here bitching and crying endlessly about Benning when he fucked up signing guys like Eriksson, Beagle and Roussel WHILE REBUILDING, that took nothing away from us being in a conversation of contending… and then you turn a complete blindeye to the amount of fuck ups while we are in a window of contention?! THESE ARE THE MISTAKES THAT COST A TEAM A CUP AND SEND YOU TO A REBUILD FASTER.

Just curious, would you still think it was a mistake if Lindholm had put up 10pts in 14 games with the Canucks, while also killing penalties? That would have been on pace with what he was doing in Calgary. Because GM's can only make decisions based on the information they have at the time. They cant predict the future, nor do they have the luxury of using hind sight (like you are) .

 

It's because of this management team that we are even in this place to begin with. Don't forget, you need to credit them for trades and signing THEY DIDNT MAKE too. They could have traded Boes at the deadline last year, but didnt. They could have chose not to resign Miller and stayed with Horvat. They could have hired Mike Babcock FFS

 

Basically youre complaining (really loudly) that so far, after 14 games one trade hasn't worked out the way youd like, while ignoring the dozens of things theyve done that have.

[DSVII]

27 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Unfortunately, this is a correct assessment.

 

Although this management has done much better than most other ones, it seems that they have finally made a big mistake. Previously other mistakes were small in scale.

 

However you're especially right about ignoring mistakes. We've seen mistakes made by Gillis and Benning. Many people would choose to ignore the mistakes by Gillis with respect to drafting, or downplay them entirely, whereas they will scrutinize the mistakes made by Benning. It's hypocritical to do that.

 

Gillis for all his successes deserves to be criticized more for draining the prospect pool. We are not there yet wit this management as they have made some really really solid moves. But we cannot start making excuses.

 

Like it or not, the core was set up by Benning. This new management has validated it several times over, from their initial assessment that their defense (when healthy) can be good. The same defense that everyone else had been criticizing.

 

IMO Gillis did well, but had a much easier job with a core handed down by Nonis and Burke. Credit should be due for his moves of course, but when one saw the rebuild phase, Gillis failed tremendously. Poor draft picking, poor roster assessments, poor coaching. That was all management.

 

 

And again, to reiterate, Gillis got fired because management didn't want to rebuild. The farm was empty because it was only 1 year removed from a cup contender, and in 2013, he added Markstrom and Horvat. We wouldn't have known what a rebuild under Gillis would look like.

 

As for draining the prospect pool, cup contenders do that. Yes Gillis' drafting sucked, but i'm not ignoring draft position. Drafting from the 20s, he would literally need 5 times more picks to equal the value of a top 5 pick Benning had.

 

The core was set by Benning, but his shortcoming was it would not succeed with him. Petey wouldn't be a 100 pt player if JB was still here, and Benning would never have founded a partner for Hughes despite having 3 years to do so, and with one already under his nose that he let walk for nothing.

 

Benning and Gillis did their bits, now it's JR/PA turn.

 

I also don't agree with some folk's assessment that Lindholm is a failure, and also that trading him now is a failure. There's value in a right shot centre in the playoffs, and even if traded, I'm glad management is showing a level of flexibility , ingenunuity and willingness to move on and continually improve than the last regime.  It's pretty refreshing.

Edited March 7 by DSVII

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Forsling was traded early before the egg had hatched. Not much we can do there. At the time, there was a calculated decision to pick up Clendenning, a much more developed player in the AHLer. Bad scouting caused that miscue.

 

Same thing with the Lindholm trade. They thought he would fit in the system, but so far, he's not.

 

I understand why people get fired up as soon as people talk about Benning and all the mistakes he made. The point that some posters are trying to make is that coaching (Green) has been a significant contributor as to whether or not the draft picks succeed or not. To be perfectly fair, Green has done well in the bubble, but also to be fair, he has had MUCH BETTER ROSTERS for the most part, compared to Willie Desjardins. Yet both coaches have near IDENTICAL coaching records. We all know that WD is a lame duck coach. Green is in this same category.

 

We'll see what he does with the mess in NJ. So far his first line of business is to scratch 19 year Nemec. This is totally on par to Green. He punishes the young players before punishing the vets. It's crazy to me that nothing has changed. He did the same thing with Juolevi after he scored his first NHL goal. Green hasn't had one winning season on the Canucks. And it's Benning's mistake (perhaps a fatal one) to extend him.

Agreed on Forsling, and to the same degree, we haven’t seen enough of Lindholm here yet to know. Ppl discounting his play here but it wasnt that much better in CGY where he was comfortable in relative recent instability. He may just need time.

 

Regardless, the trade here filled a need and may prove to be well worth his weight in playoffs. 
I just think we’re gauging way too early still. What if we pick up a line mate that benefits Lindholm…we just don’t know exactly what’s in the cards yet but labelling it a miss.  

Edited March 7 by RWJC

[DSVII]

3 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Just curious, would you still think it was a mistake if Lindholm had put up 10pts in 14 games with the Canucks, while also killing penalties? That would have been on pace with what he was doing in Calgary. Because GM's can only make decisions based on the information they have at the time. They cant predict the future, nor do they have the luxury of using hind sight (like you are) .

 

It's because of this management team that we are even in this place to begin with. Don't forget, you need to credit them for trades and signing THEY DIDNT MAKE too. They could have traded Boes at the deadline last year, but didnt. They could have chose not to resign Miller and stayed with Horvat. They could have hired Mike Babcock FFS

 

Basically youre complaining (really loudly) that so far, after 14 games one trade hasn't worked out the way youd like, while ignoring the dozens of things theyve done that have.

 

His entire world view is to make Benning look good. Everything related to the team is subservient to this framing.

[PureQuickness]

1 minute ago, JayDangles said:

Just curious, would you still think it was a mistake if Lindholm had put up 10pts in 14 games with the Canucks, while also killing penalties? That would have been on pace with what he was doing in Calgary. Because GM's can only make decisions based on the information they have at the time. They cant predict the future, nor do they have the luxury of using hind sight (like you are) .

 

It's because of this management team that we are even in this place to begin with. Don't forget, you need to credit them for trades and signing THEY DIDNT MAKE too. They could have traded Boes at the deadline last year, but didnt. They could have chose not to resign Miller and stayed with Horvat. They could have hired Mike Babcock FFS

 

Basically youre complaining (really loudly) that so far, after 14 games one trade hasn't worked out the way youd like, while ignoring the dozens of things theyve done that have.

 

 

Bingo, but many of Benning's moves have not been given this kind of luxury, granted Benning did have a lot of time to do whatever he needed to do.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think Anthony's point was that Benning was overly scrutinized (perhaps appropriately so), but Gillis was given a lot of free passes to make mistakes. Even to this day, we still see posters claiming that Gillis was the best GM, despite the fact that he had constantly whiffed on every single draft pick (minus Hodgson, Horvat, Hutton, and maybe Corrado).

 

How many of Gillis drafted players are still playing? Oddly, there's only one Gaunce.

 

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Forsling was traded early before the egg had hatched. Not much we can do there. At the time, there was a calculated decision to pick up Clendenning, a much more developed player in the AHLer. Bad scouting caused that miscue.

 

Same thing with the Lindholm trade. They thought he would fit in the system, but so far, he's not.

 

I understand why people get fired up as soon as people talk about Benning and all the mistakes he made. The point that some posters are trying to make is that coaching (Green) has been a significant contributor as to whether or not the draft picks succeed or not. To be perfectly fair, Green has done well in the bubble, but also to be fair, he has had MUCH BETTER ROSTERS for the most part, compared to Willie Desjardins. Yet both coaches have near IDENTICAL coaching records. We all know that WD is a lame duck coach. Green is in this same category.

 

We'll see what he does with the mess in NJ. So far his first line of business is to scratch 19 year Nemec. This is totally on par to Green. He punishes the young players before punishing the vets. It's crazy to me that nothing has changed. He did the same thing with Juolevi after he scored his first NHL goal. Green hasn't had one winning season on the Canucks. And it's Benning's mistake (perhaps a fatal one) to extend him.

Terrible calculation though... Clendening even at that time didn't look to have the ceiling that Forsling did.  Clendening was in his 3rd year in the AHL and was having his worst year ... on pace for 2 goals and 25 points that season.  I could understand if we had made the move the year before as Clendening looked very good in his 2nd year.  I guess they thought Clendening was just having a down year and thought they were buying low and selling high on Forsling?  I dunno... even at the time, it seemed like a really odd trade.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

28 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Unfortunately, this is a correct assessment.

 

Although this management has done much better than most other ones, it seems that they have finally made a big mistake. Previously other mistakes were small in scale.

 

However you're especially right about ignoring mistakes. We've seen mistakes made by Gillis and Benning. Many people would choose to ignore the mistakes by Gillis with respect to drafting, or downplay them entirely, whereas they will scrutinize the mistakes made by Benning. It's hypocritical to do that.

 

Gillis for all his successes deserves to be criticized more for draining the prospect pool. We are not there yet wit this management as they have made some really really solid moves. But we cannot start making excuses.

 

Like it or not, the core was set up by Benning. This new management has validated it several times over, from their initial assessment that their defense (when healthy) can be good. The same defense that everyone else had been criticizing.

 

IMO Gillis did well, but had a much easier job with a core handed down by Nonis and Burke. Credit should be due for his moves of course, but when one saw the rebuild phase, Gillis failed tremendously. Poor draft picking, poor roster assessments, poor coaching. That was all management.

 

 

What happened ?

[Elias Pettersson]

Why the fuck are we still talking about Benning in this thread?  Like seriously. Nobody cares about him anymore. 
 

And downplaying JR’s accomplishments in the NHL to try and make Benning look better is pretty funny. 

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

 

Bingo, but many of Benning's moves have not been given this kind of luxury, granted Benning did have a lot of time to do whatever he needed to do.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think Anthony's point was that Benning was overly scrutinized (perhaps appropriately so), but Gillis was given a lot of free passes to make mistakes. Even to this day, we still see posters claiming that Gillis was the best GM, despite the fact that he had constantly whiffed on every single draft pick (minus Hodgson, Horvat, Hutton, and maybe Corrado).

 

How many of Gillis drafted players are still playing? Oddly, there's only one Gaunce.

 

I just don’t understand why we keep arguing all this shit. One move leads to another, one GM’s

path leads to another GM’s path…we’re now sitting atop the league with a strong chance at going deep in the playoffs. 
 

it’s one giant ripple effect, positive and negative. 

[Tower102]

6 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Just curious, would you still think it was a mistake if Lindholm had put up 10pts in 14 games with the Canucks, while also killing penalties? That would have been on pace with what he was doing in Calgary. Because GM's can only make decisions based on the information they have at the time. They cant predict the future, nor do they have the luxury of using hind sight (like you are) .

 

It's because of this management team that we are even in this place to begin with. Don't forget, you need to credit them for trades and signing THEY DIDNT MAKE too. They could have traded Boes at the deadline last year, but didnt. They could have chose not to resign Miller and stayed with Horvat. They could have hired Mike Babcock FFS

 

Basically youre complaining (really loudly) that so far, after 14 games one trade hasn't worked out the way youd like, while ignoring the dozens of things theyve done that have.

Yep, how many people were mad that we re-signed Miller instead of trading him at that trade deadline. We would have Bo instead of Miller on a higher contract, and the Miller trade wouldn't have netted us a Hronek. 

[RWJC]

Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. 
 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

What happened ?

Apparently we traded for Lindholm who is now playing as a 3C. So we are looking at flipping him for Guentzel. 
 

Apparently flipping an asset for another one who may be a better fit is admitting a huge mistake. At least we don’t have to buy out this player for the next 8 years because of the previous management’s incompetence. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Just now, RWJC said:

Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. 
 

 

Oh good, management got my text haha

 

 

[DSVII]

Just now, RWJC said:

Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. 
 

Maybe I'm in the minority here. But I value a righty centre in the playoffs over an injured guy that played 98% of his playoff games alongside crosby.

[PureQuickness]

2 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

And again, to reiterate, Gillis got fired because management didn't want to rebuild. The farm was empty because it was only 1 year removed from a cup contender, and in 2013, he added Markstrom and Horvat. We wouldn't have known what a rebuild under Gillis would look like.

 

As for draining the prospect pool, cup contenders do that. Yes Gillis' drafting sucked, but i'm not ignoring draft position. Drafting from the 20s, he would literally need 5 times more picks to equal the value of a top 5 pick Benning had.

 

The core was set by Benning, but his shortcoming was it would not succeed with him. Petey wouldn't be a 100 pt player if JB was still here, and Benning would never have founded a partner for Hughes despite having 3 years to do so, and with one already under his nose that he let walk for nothing.

 

Benning and Gillis did their bits, now it's JR/PA now.

 

I also don't agree with some folk's assessment that Lindholm is a failure, and also that trading him now is a failure. There's value in a right shot centre in the playoffs, and even if traded, I'm glad management is showing a level of flexibility , ingenunuity and willingness to move on and continually improve than the last regime.  It's pretty refreshing.

 

With all due respect, there's a lot of "buts" when assessing Gillis.

 

Let's just get this out of the way. Benning made tons of mistakes. Ultimately, his mistakes cost him his job. Gillis got fired because his performance at the time no longer matched his past performance. Yet his mistake of poor drafting was also the reason why he got fired. He was unable to fill up a competitive roster.

 

Cup winning teams trade draft picks to bolster their roster, yes. However, they also usually HIT with their draft picks, whether it's their high picks or low ones. Gillis was SO BAD at drafting that he couldn't find drafted replacements for his roster players - even the aged ones. Edler, for example, was from the Nonis period. Gillis was STILL carrying this guy (all due respect to Edler) and there was no replacement for him at all.

 

Bad drafting over the years hurt our futures. That's on Gillis. When Benning took over, I invite you to ACTUALLY look at what Benning inherited (before he made the mistakes). Gillis' lack of drafting success tells us that he's not a good GM at all, especially with rebuilding.

 

Ownership may have nerfed him from doing an ACTUAL rebuild, but with the picks they DID acquire, what did Gillis actually do with them? Lots of squandered ones. While hindsight is 20/20, the amount of drafting failures under Gillis is very hard to ignore. Gillis even went out to say he wished he improved this section - but he didn't.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. 
 

 

if it ever was.