Popular Post DeNiro Posted March 7 Popular Post Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, RWJC said: Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. Good. Tocchet probably told them no. He knows the value of a right shot center who can win defensive zone draws. The offense will come. 5 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RWJC Posted March 7 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 7 Just now, DSVII said: Maybe I'm in the minority here. But I value a righty centre in the playoffs over an injured guy that played 98% of his playoff games alongside crosby. Bingo. We haven’t even seen Lindholm catch his stride here yet. If he does, ppl will be quite pleased with the overall skill and depth he provides to this club. Just hope he clicks. No guarantee Guentzel would either after having played so many seasons with one of the greatest players of all time and developing that intuition. It’s all a relative crap shoot 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: What happened ? Rachel Doerrie, and so forth. They were inconsequential to the grand scheme of things Management has overall done a great job, regardless of Lindholm. Kuzmenko, Joshua, Blueger - all excellent pick-ups. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 4 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Oh good, management got my text haha Yeah, we were grabbing a quick bite at Hy's, and I told Jimmy and Pat to check their phones ... just to make sure they got your text. Team effort I guess eh? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JayDangles Posted March 7 Popular Post Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, DSVII said: Maybe I'm in the minority here. But I value a righty centre in the playoffs over an injured guy that played 98% of his playoff games alongside crosby. I'm completely happy with the Lindholm trade. I'm not going to base a trade of this magnitude on 14 games, over a period of time when the whole team has been struggling. I think some people are having sellers remorse because Kuz has a good past, and is doing well in Calgary. But really, it's like wanting your ex once they have a new partner, its over, move on, stop complaining 2 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Glad this didn’t happen. I think Lindholm will be a great player in the playoffs. He looked really good against LA, starting to hit his stride. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 25 minutes ago, PureQuickness said: With all due respect, there's a lot of "buts" when assessing Gillis. Let's just get this out of the way. Benning made tons of mistakes. Ultimately, his mistakes cost him his job. Gillis got fired because his performance at the time no longer matched his past performance. Yet his mistake of poor drafting was also the reason why he got fired. He was unable to fill up a competitive roster. Cup winning teams trade draft picks to bolster their roster, yes. However, they also usually HIT with their draft picks, whether it's their high picks or low ones. Gillis was SO BAD at drafting that he couldn't find drafted replacements for his roster players - even the aged ones. Edler, for example, was from the Nonis period. Gillis was STILL carrying this guy (all due respect to Edler) and there was no replacement for him at all. Bad drafting over the years hurt our futures. That's on Gillis. When Benning took over, I invite you to ACTUALLY look at what Benning inherited (before he made the mistakes). Gillis' lack of drafting success tells us that he's not a good GM at all, especially with rebuilding. Ownership may have nerfed him from doing an ACTUAL rebuild, but with the picks they DID acquire, what did Gillis actually do with them? Lots of squandered ones. While hindsight is 20/20, the amount of drafting failures under Gillis is very hard to ignore. Gillis even went out to say he wished he improved this section - but he didn't. I'll make this my last post on this as I don't want to derail this thread. There's two buts with Gillis here. If only the team won game 6/7 of the cup finals. And if he was allowed to rebuild. You mention hindsight a lot so I'll posit this to you. Would you trade two chances at a cup in Two games in exchange for a weak prospect pool for the next two to four years? I think the majority take that trade. Gillis did not squander the core by giving them that shot. he did his job and got closer than any gm in our history. Two shots. Gillis got Horvat with his pick when he tried to retool. That's far from squandering. Especially if we're going to praise Benning who inherited more picks from Gillis in 2014 and got Demko. Benning inherited a team full of assets with more cap flexibility than he gave his successors. I can agree to disagree here. And lastly. Just one bit of nuance here, cup contending teams don't usually need to HIT with their draft picks. They need to extract value from them. Such as you said through trades. Ask Tampa and Vegas how many picks since 2020 have hit. They don't have to hit on picks as long as they're shipping them out for win now players. If the GM of Vegas and Tampa got fired today. Would you crucify them for having empty prospect pools and drafts the last four years? That's really my impression of how you're judging Gillis. Edited March 7 by DSVII 1 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Glad this didn’t happen. I think Lindholm will be a great player in the playoffs. He looked really good against LA, starting to hit his stride. The nice thing is if Lindholm does hit his stride and we want to keep him, we can afford to do it. Moving Mikheyev is all it would take. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Just now, HKSR said: The nice thing is if Lindholm does hit his stride and we want to keep him, we can afford to do it. Moving Mikheyev is all it would take. *if he wants to extend here. Open market UFA status and a retirement deal is verrrry attractive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 37 minutes ago, JayDangles said: Just curious, would you still think it was a mistake if Lindholm had put up 10pts in 14 games with the Canucks, while also killing penalties? That would have been on pace with what he was doing in Calgary. Because GM's can only make decisions based on the information they have at the time. They cant predict the future, nor do they have the luxury of using hind sight (like you are) . It's because of this management team that we are even in this place to begin with. Don't forget, you need to credit them for trades and signing THEY DIDNT MAKE too. They could have traded Boes at the deadline last year, but didnt. They could have chose not to resign Miller and stayed with Horvat. They could have hired Mike Babcock FFS Basically youre complaining (really loudly) that so far, after 14 games one trade hasn't worked out the way youd like, while ignoring the dozens of things theyve done that have. Nononono you are completely missing the point. Its not that Lindholm is the problem I have. Its the bassackwards way of acquiring him and not even seeking a sign and trade to assure themselves they are not tossing picks and prospects down the drain for 1 fucking run. The fact is they didnt ask permission. They took a risk and now face the consequences of losing him for nothing after this season OR they ship him out last minute for a top 6 winger. WE NEEDED A FUCKING CENTRE. WE HAD ONE IN HORVAT. We bought out a top 4 D to trade a 2C for top 4 D to sell a bunch of picks and prospects for a 2C we cannot keep and to boot we have to eat 4mil in salary during our window to win. OEL looks mighty fuckin fine in FLA. we could have simply moved Kuzmenko for a top 4 D. Instead we have gone this long ass round about bassackwards way of paying a heavy price to have the things we already had yet we might not be able to keep that 2C one way or another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7_Gyoza Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 After today next 9 games are at home, I think this will be the shot in the arm the team needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 34 minutes ago, RWJC said: Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain insano Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, AnthonyG said: Nononono you are completely missing the point. Its not that Lindholm is the problem I have. Its the bassackwards way of acquiring him and not even seeking a sign and trade to assure themselves they are not tossing picks and prospects down the drain for 1 fucking run. The fact is they didnt ask permission. They took a risk and now face the consequences of losing him for nothing after this season OR they ship him out last minute for a top 6 winger. WE NEEDED A FUCKING CENTRE. WE HAD ONE IN HORVAT. We bought out a top 4 D to trade a 2C for top 4 D to sell a bunch of picks and prospects for a 2C we cannot keep and to boot we have to eat 4mil in salary during our window to win. OEL looks mighty fuckin fine in FLA. we could have simply moved Kuzmenko for a top 4 D. Instead we have gone this long ass round about bassackwards way of paying a heavy price to have the things we already had yet we might not be able to keep that 2C one way or another. So you suggest the team should have blindly thrown the bag at a guy that hasn’t played for the team yet to make sure you get atleast something out of your first? That’s worked very well for us in recent years…. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, Captain insano said: So you suggest the team should have blindly thrown the bag at a guy that hasn’t played for the team yet to make sure you get atleast something out of your first? That’s worked very well for us in recent years…. Lol Blindly throw the bag at Lindholm who is a selke level 2C or Horvat who we’ve known forever? umm dude if you are going to give up that much for a fucking 2C because it is an actual team need, you’d better plan on keeping him long term. Otherwise its back to the fucking drawingboard next season with less money in our pocket to buy a 2C. Desperation will set in eventually and we will either be forced to accept being weak down the middle or over pay for a 2C and that overpayment is going to have one of the names of our top prospects attached to that package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain insano Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Blindly throw the bag at Lindholm who is a selke level 2C or Horvat who we’ve known forever? umm dude if you are going to give up that much for a fucking 2C because it is an actual team need, you’d better plan on keeping him long term. Otherwise its back to the fucking drawingboard next season with less money in our pocket to buy a 2C. Desperation will set in eventually and we will either be forced to accept being weak down the middle or over pay for a 2C and that overpayment is going to have one of the names of our top prospects attached to that package. They traded 5.5 million of health bomb at the same time, not sure what dead caps worth but I’m thinking that’s gotta be valued close to a second, Look what oilers just gave up for a 3c and a terrible 4th liner lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 49 minutes ago, DSVII said: And again, to reiterate, Gillis got fired because management didn't want to rebuild. The farm was empty because it was only 1 year removed from a cup contender, and in 2013, he added Markstrom and Horvat. We wouldn't have known what a rebuild under Gillis would look like. As for draining the prospect pool, cup contenders do that. Yes Gillis' drafting sucked, but i'm not ignoring draft position. Drafting from the 20s, he would literally need 5 times more picks to equal the value of a top 5 pick Benning had. The core was set by Benning, but his shortcoming was it would not succeed with him. Petey wouldn't be a 100 pt player if JB was still here, and Benning would never have founded a partner for Hughes despite having 3 years to do so, and with one already under his nose that he let walk for nothing. Benning and Gillis did their bits, now it's JR/PA turn. I also don't agree with some folk's assessment that Lindholm is a failure, and also that trading him now is a failure. There's value in a right shot centre in the playoffs, and even if traded, I'm glad management is showing a level of flexibility , ingenunuity and willingness to move on and continually improve than the last regime. It's pretty refreshing. Gillis was never going to get the opportunity to rebuild just as Benning would never get to see this team through to a contender. Gillis was hired to win and that was it and destroyed the organization rather quick. Benning was brought in to rebuild and that was it, he was given a little time to enjoy his work and after that they changed it to a closer. Benning was the starting pitcher, PA is the closer. The starter got us this far, thevcloser is not starting to make some pretty bad pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakystink Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 16 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Nononono you are completely missing the point. Its not that Lindholm is the problem I have. Its the bassackwards way of acquiring him and not even seeking a sign and trade to assure themselves they are not tossing picks and prospects down the drain for 1 fucking run. The fact is they didnt ask permission. They took a risk and now face the consequences of losing him for nothing after this season OR they ship him out last minute for a top 6 winger. WE NEEDED A FUCKING CENTRE. WE HAD ONE IN HORVAT. We bought out a top 4 D to trade a 2C for top 4 D to sell a bunch of picks and prospects for a 2C we cannot keep and to boot we have to eat 4mil in salary during our window to win. OEL looks mighty fuckin fine in FLA. we could have simply moved Kuzmenko for a top 4 D. Instead we have gone this long ass round about bassackwards way of paying a heavy price to have the things we already had yet we might not be able to keep that 2C one way or another. Get a hold of yourself man Jesus 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 37 minutes ago, PureQuickness said: Unfortunately, this is a correct assessment. Although this management has done much better than most other ones, it seems that they have finally made a big mistake. Previously other mistakes were small in scale. However you're especially right about ignoring mistakes. We've seen mistakes made by Gillis and Benning. Many people would choose to ignore the mistakes by Gillis with respect to drafting, or downplay them entirely, whereas they will scrutinize the mistakes made by Benning. It's hypocritical to do that. Gillis for all his successes deserves to be criticized more for draining the prospect pool. We are not there yet wit this management as they have made some really really solid moves. But we cannot start making excuses. Like it or not, the core was set up by Benning. This new management has validated it several times over, from their initial assessment that their defense (when healthy) can be good. The same defense that everyone else had been criticizing. IMO Gillis did well, but had a much easier job with a core handed down by Nonis and Burke. Credit should be due for his moves of course, but when one saw the rebuild phase, Gillis failed tremendously. Poor draft picking, poor roster assessments, poor coaching. That was all management. Thing is even Gillis knew they needed a complete reset, but FA vetoed it... Had they bitten the bulit in 20113-14ish and started all over, we would have been ready to compete far quicker, than we were... Benning came in and said we could turn it around quickly, but I think it was Aquilini, who said, that was how they wanted it... I don't slander Benning much, as we live in a world were we have the benefit of hindsight. We all know, how it should have been done, but even the most supportive fan wouldn't have expected us to become this good so fast. Last year (or 2 years ago) the tank emoji was introduced, as it looked like we were needing to start all over, but JR true to his word, got a new GM he had worked with before, and introduced a front office even the most negative posters found impressive... A new coach followed (in a disappointing way), as the previous coach was liked by all the fans, but again despite all the negative tones as to how we would play under him, JR/PA again hit head of the nail, and we started to look like a proper team, and not just a team looking good going forward. And then all the trades an pick ups has followed... lets note belittle how busy the front office led by our GM has been, leading up to this last week, I believe half of all the trades in the NHL had been conducted by the Canucks... Something suggests they new exactly, what they wanted, and they have been good at getting it done... without doubt JRs many contacts within the NHL clubs has made it easier to make the trades... This is not about winning trades, but getting trades done that fits both sides... Something I think Gillis screwed up, and maybe just maybe one of the reason the NHL made the Luongo rule, as deeply unfair as it was, could be the other GMs not being too happy with Gillis... (This is of course all speculation and a couple of other team also got hit with penalties, but one can only wonder if an original 6 team had signed Luongo to that contract, would it have been the same?). But I don't see the NHL help team out, that doesn't have the same benefits from lower tax, so it feels like vindictiveness aimed at Vancouver... Now 2 years after JR took over as president, we are competing to be number 1 in the league... what a great turn around from sucking the previous decade, so big mistake and big mistake... if we go into the play offs and get through even just 1 round, I would say, this is a massive success... And who knows, maybe we get more? And we are still talking about the start of our cores success... no reason to believe we won't continue to be a playoffs candidate... Until there is a valid reason proof of a fuck up, I think JR/PA deserve the right not to be criticised, or at least at a lesser level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, PureQuickness said: Forsling was traded early before the egg had hatched. Not much we can do there. At the time, there was a calculated decision to pick up Clendenning, a much more developed player in the AHLer. Bad scouting caused that miscue. Same thing with the Lindholm trade. They thought he would fit in the system, but so far, he's not. I understand why people get fired up as soon as people talk about Benning and all the mistakes he made. The point that some posters are trying to make is that coaching (Green) has been a significant contributor as to whether or not the draft picks succeed or not. To be perfectly fair, Green has done well in the bubble, but also to be fair, he has had MUCH BETTER ROSTERS for the most part, compared to Willie Desjardins. Yet both coaches have near IDENTICAL coaching records. We all know that WD is a lame duck coach. Green is in this same category. We'll see what he does with the mess in NJ. So far his first line of business is to scratch 19 year Nemec. This is totally on par to Green. He punishes the young players before punishing the vets. It's crazy to me that nothing has changed. He did the same thing with Juolevi after he scored his first NHL goal. Green hasn't had one winning season on the Canucks. And it's Benning's mistake (perhaps a fatal one) to extend him. Agree here... I've seen endless stories written with the joy of hindsight about Forsling... But how many prospects do you keep? All of them? Nah... if Forsling had looked like world star from the start. they wouldn't have traded him, but they needed a player that could play in the line up so they took a calculated gamble... Can say it was the result of wanting to compete without really having a team to do so... Would anyone have been upset if they traded Jurmo 2 years ago? or Woo etc... some make it, most doesn't... Hunter may be another Forsling, but are we going to stand pat, while our window passes us by like ships in the night, mainly out of fear that a player may become a star? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sell.the.team Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 As far as I'm concerned, the Clendenning trade is on Aquaman more than anyone else. His constant meddling and whipping of JB to make the team better faster caused that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 55 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Nononono you are completely missing the point. Its not that Lindholm is the problem I have. Its the bassackwards way of acquiring him and not even seeking a sign and trade to assure themselves they are not tossing picks and prospects down the drain for 1 fucking run. The fact is they didnt ask permission. They took a risk and now face the consequences of losing him for nothing after this season OR they ship him out last minute for a top 6 winger. WE NEEDED A FUCKING CENTRE. WE HAD ONE IN HORVAT. We bought out a top 4 D to trade a 2C for top 4 D to sell a bunch of picks and prospects for a 2C we cannot keep and to boot we have to eat 4mil in salary during our window to win. OEL looks mighty fuckin fine in FLA. we could have simply moved Kuzmenko for a top 4 D. Instead we have gone this long ass round about bassackwards way of paying a heavy price to have the things we already had yet we might not be able to keep that 2C one way or another. coulda woulda shoulda. You're making a ton of hypothetical moves/trades without even thinking things through. - How do you know they haven't discussed Lindholm resigning in the offseason already? - Are you saying we should have kept Horvat over Miller? We were not in a position to sign both for $8m. If you're saying that, then are you saying you would rather have Horvat instead of Miller and Hronek? - Thats great OEL is doing well in florida, but he wasnt playing well here. Are you saying we should have kept him? and kept the $5.5m cap hit? If yes, then we dont have Soucy or likely Zadorov. Also means we probably wouldnt have found a gem in Juulsen - Please name the team that was offering us a top 4 Dman for Kuzmenko. You see, you're living in a fantasy world and not thinking things through to any degree. You want to blame management, but in reality your ideas would have set this team back further than they already are, and we'd be in line for the 1st overall pick this year. I know where i'd rather be. Maybe take a minute and think about what your actually saying. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, RWJC said: Anyway back on topic…apparently Lindholm to BOS is now off the table. Thank christ that was beyond dumb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Carolina just waived a bunch of players, wonder if Guenztel is headed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Sneakystink said: Get a hold of yourself man Jesus I’m in full control, I’m not the one turning a blind eye to some big mistakes that are costly. Maybe snap out of it and quit drinking the Koolaid Edited March 7 by AnthonyG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJCF96 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: Good. Tocchet probably told them no. He knows the value of a right shot center who can win defensive zone draws. The offense will come. Totally agree. I am also against trading player we literally JUST acquired. This will leave a sour taste in the players and their families. This would also deter future pending UFAs with No Trade or No Move clauses to waive for Vancouver in future deadlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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