Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[RupertKBD]

BTW, I confess to paying little attention to FA rules, but doesn't Hronek have Arbitration rights? That being the case, why would he sign a low ball "show me" contract. In his mind that's what he just did.

 

I said it in a different thread (I think) but his agent will likely use Noah Hanifin's contract as a comparable, meaning he'll get close to that 8 million number, either from the Canucks, or from the Arbitrator, unless the team decides to walk away and make him a UFA....

[IBatch]

39 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

As a big fan I have to upvote this.....even if Don't Stop Believing is way down my list of favorite Journey tunes....

Ideally he signs and makes us all believe too! 

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 5/23/2024 at 4:55 PM, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I see no scenario where the team trades Hronek. 

 

This fanbase or market is baffling at times. Scream for a decade for a top four right handed defenseman. Add on in a trade of assets the team acquired for moving a pending free agent who was not going to return. A major positive.

 

Fans and media are split on if it was a good deal, or sorry not if it was a good deal but the timing of it. The team added the exact player this city has been screaming for.

 

Fast forward a year and I am starting to think more than half the fans/media are indifferent to Hronek or would welcome him being flipped in a trade. Makes no sense and a fans hockey sense or understanding of player valuations goes out the window when the name Chris Tanev is mentioned. At this point in Tanev's career he would be a lateral add if Myers and or Zadorov did not come back.

 

 

 

You're spot on. Especially after, like you say, the team added the exact player this city was screaming for over many years. That was really telling. And then that player goes on to be hugely successful with Hughes, is exactly what we've needed, AND what Hughes has needed. As far as his play over the season, as we saw with the entire team, Hronek wasn't the only one to struggle in the second half. I still don't think we've seen the best of Hughes and Hronek yet whatsoever. That, to me, is exciting. Hronek also brings an attitude and pushback on and off the ice! Perfect! That's also what we need. He doesn't need to be nice! We need some guys that are pricks because other guys can't be that.

 

My take is the indifference is because the initial trade was unexpected, made our blue line better, and it upended the media, many fans, and certain narratives about the direction of the team. Also, many were unfamiliar with Hronek too. 

 

The way I see it, some fans wanted an RHD but only on their terms. Hronek wasn't on their terms.

 

No matter who we get or acquire, I'm convinced the exact same reaction would happen again.

 

You're also spot on about Tanev. At this point, it would be a lateral add. He'd be good down the D to make us more defensively sound. Still, he'd be another year older.

 

 

[Blue]

Drance nails it in this segment. https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/canucks-talk/big-game-hunting/

 

Brandon Montour is 4 years older and will probably get more money than Hronek

[kettlevalley]

I agree with the sentiment here.  That we need to get this guy signed,  that we need this player as seen by the elevation of the team since he arrived, that this player is going to sign a market value contract or get that contract awarded by an arbitrator.  

 

I am baffled why they don't sit down and get this done.  Whether Toews is the standard or Hanifan is really all they needs to be decided.  I really think Hronek gets 7.25 to 8m.  

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

You're spot on. Especially after, like you say, the team added the exact player this city was screaming for over many years. That was really telling. And then that player goes on to be hugely successful with Hughes, is exactly what we've needed, AND what Hughes has needed. As far as his play over the season, as we saw with the entire team, Hronek wasn't the only one to struggle in the second half. I still don't think we've seen the best of Hughes and Hronek yet whatsoever. That, to me, is exciting. Hronek also brings an attitude and pushback on and off the ice! Perfect! That's also what we need. He doesn't need to be nice! We need some guys that are pricks because other guys can't be that.

 

My take is the indifference is because the initial trade was unexpected, made our blue line better, and it upended the media, many fans, and certain narratives about the direction of the team. Also, many were unfamiliar with Hronek too. 

 

The way I see it, some fans wanted an RHD but only on their terms. Hronek wasn't on their terms.

 

No matter who we get or acquire, I'm convinced the exact same reaction would happen again.

 

You're also spot on about Tanev. At this point, it would be a lateral add. He'd be good down the D to make us more defensively sound. Still, he'd be another year older.

 

 

The cap squeeze is going to create some tough decisions.    Tanev is probably a lateral add at this point, and who knows if he won't do exactly what Salo did at the same age, as in only play a small portion of the games.    Going back to playing first pairing minutes with QHs is a big ask.  

 

Hronek on his own pair is what Allvin wants to see.    Believe that's him hinting either he's going to sign him long term and roll the dice or he's telling us that he hasn't seen enough yet to give out a massive legacy deal.   Hronek is prickly with the press, don't mind that either.   Our press  barely hides their loaded questions.   Part of this market, unlikely to ever change.    They are fans too, and can't hardly blame them after the past decade.   Getting impatient.    

 

Personally hoping they can agree on a bridge.   Know we risk having to really pay later to keep him.    We've also got Willander as the heir apparent and hopeful.    It takes a village.    D-Petey too.    It makes tactical sense to sign other guys first.   Who can test free agency.   Then go back to Hronek, once we have that sorted out.   
 

Fully expect Allvin is on the phones finding out what the ask will be on Mikheyev.    That's also a priority.  

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The cap squeeze is going to create some tough decisions.    Tanev is probably a lateral add at this point, and who knows if he won't do exactly what Salo did at the same age, as in only play a small portion of the games.    Going back to playing first pairing minutes with QHs is a big ask.  

 

Hronek on his own pair is what Allvin wants to see.    Believe that's him hinting either he's going to sign him long term and roll the dice or he's telling us that he hasn't seen enough yet to give out a massive legacy deal.   Hronek is prickly with the press, don't mind that either.   Our press  barely hides their loaded questions.   Part of this market, unlikely to ever change.    They are fans too, and can't hardly blame them after the past decade.   Getting impatient.    

 

Personally hoping they can agree on a bridge.   Know we risk having to really pay later to keep him.    We've also got Willander as the heir apparent and hopeful.    It takes a village.    D-Petey too.    It makes tactical sense to sign other guys first.   Who can test free agency.   Then go back to Hronek, once we have that sorted out.   
 

Fully expect Allvin is on the phones finding out what the ask will be on Mikheyev.    That's also a priority.  

IMHAO it’s not “rolling the dice to sign Hronek to a long term (Toews’ like) deal. Hronek is a proven commodity. Whether here or in Detroit, he’s been excellent in a top pairing role. 
As for Mik Allvin is looking at moving off of all Garland’s money first. He’s the guy we will hear about being traded at the draft, and likely for a couple mid round picks. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

IMHAO it’s not “rolling the dice to sign Hronek to a long term (Toews’ like) deal. Hronek is a proven commodity. Whether here or in Detroit, he’s been excellent in a top pairing role. 
As for Mik Allvin is looking at moving off of all Garland’s money first. He’s the guy we will hear about being traded at the draft, and likely for a couple mid round picks. 

Alf, what did Mike Gillis sign Edler for?   How many years.   Or Hamhuis or Bieksa for that matter, and what had they achieved up until then.   Hronek isn't Toews.    Toews underlying stats were a lot better both in NYI and in COL.   It for sure is rolling the dice giving out a 7-8 year deal with any player who's not elite or had years of blue chip to back it up.    Half of one season of elite.   If Yzerman was convinced Hronek was a top pairing D, he wouldn't have made the trade and kept him.   I'm not convinced.   Zadarov was a better defenseman in the playoffs for us.    It for sure is rolling the dice on a max term deal with trade protection starting in one season.    Look at OEL, Myers, Trouba, a lot of other guys.   And he doesn't have the same pedigree.   To me he's earned a 5 year deal max.     We'd be rolling the dice on a max term deal.   When we haven't even established he can handle his own pairing yet.  

 

We don't have to rush.    Let him prove next season, and then sign him.    Edler.   Hamhuis.   
 

What happened to Erhoff after we didn't keep him?   Because he priced himself off the team.   Nosedive.    Half a season is encouraging.   And for sure his best seasons should be coming later.    5 goals.   A lot of second assists. 

Edited May 29 by IBatch

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Alf, what did Mike Gillis sign Edler for?   How many years.   Or Hamhuis or Bieksa for that matter, and what had they achieved up until then.   Hronek isn't Toews.    Toews underlying stats were a lot better both in NYI and in COL.   It for sure is rolling the dice giving out a 7-8 year deal with any player who's not elite or had years of blue chip to back it up.    Half of one season of elite.   If Yzerman was convinced Hronek was a top pairing D, he wouldn't have made the trade and kept him.   I'm not convinced.   Zadarov was a better defenseman in the playoffs for us.    It for sure is rolling the dice on a max term deal with trade protection starting in one season.    Look at OEL, Myers, Trouba, a lot of other guys.   And he doesn't have the same pedigree.   To me he's earned a 5 year deal max.  

Toews has never had the numbers of Hronek. Hronek had way better numbers this year. He’s better than Toews. More skill, better defensively and more bite. Hronek is the superior player. That’s a fact. 

[Gurn]

2018-19	New York Islanders	NHL	48	5	13	18	4	7	8	1	4	5	0
2019-20	New York Islanders	NHL	68	6	22	28	16	1	22	2	8	10	6
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	53	9	22	31	16	29	10	1	5	6	2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	66	13	44	57	20	52	20	5	10	15	8
2022-23	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	80	7	43	50	26	39	7	1	8	9	0
2023-24	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	12	38	50	18	28	10	1	5	6

 

and Hronek

2018-19	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	46	5	18	23	30	-10	--	--	--	--	--
2018-19	Grand Rapids Griffins	AHL	31	7	17	24	45	0	5	0	3	3	28
2019-20	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	65	9	22	31	46	-38	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Hradec Kralove	Czech	22	10	13	23	18	15	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	56	2	24	26	16	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	78	5	33	38	36	-29	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	60	9	29	38	34	8	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	4	0	1	1	0	-1	--	--	--	--	--
2023-24	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	5	43	48	38	33	13	1	1	2

 

 

1 guy has never hit 50, the other has done it 3 times.

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Toews has never had the numbers of Hronek. Hronek had way better numbers this year. He’s better than Toews. More skill, better defensively and more bite. Hronek is the superior player. That’s a fact. 

Not according to WAR.   But I don't think they've got their system perfected either.   Advanced stats has Toews at the tippy top percentile defensively, Hronek just above average and not by much.   So not sure what facts you're using.    If it's purely points, so far Toews has Hronek on that one too, Hronek still has to do that.   And QHs versus Makar, they both are great at their jobs phenomenal.

 

   He was top pairing in NYI before he came to COL, on a mediocre team.   9 goals and 31 points in 55 games  versus 9 goals and 39 points in 64 games is a wash, aside from DET not as mediocre as NYI.    And age.   Close enough.   Devon Toews so far, has Hronek on the defensive side.   As far as most analytics go.    They don't play the same game.   

 

 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Gurn said:

2018-19	New York Islanders	NHL	48	5	13	18	4	7	8	1	4	5	0
2019-20	New York Islanders	NHL	68	6	22	28	16	1	22	2	8	10	6
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	53	9	22	31	16	29	10	1	5	6	2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	66	13	44	57	20	52	20	5	10	15	8
2022-23	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	80	7	43	50	26	39	7	1	8	9	0
2023-24	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	12	38	50	18	28	10	1	5	6

 

and Hronek

2018-19	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	46	5	18	23	30	-10	--	--	--	--	--
2018-19	Grand Rapids Griffins	AHL	31	7	17	24	45	0	5	0	3	3	28
2019-20	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	65	9	22	31	46	-38	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Hradec Kralove	Czech	22	10	13	23	18	15	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	56	2	24	26	16	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	78	5	33	38	36	-29	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	60	9	29	38	34	8	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	4	0	1	1	0	-1	--	--	--	--	--
2023-24	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	5	43	48	38	33	13	1	1	2

 

 

1 guy has never hit 50, the other has done it 3 times.

Yep.  And the WAR cards are not even close.   Ask Miss Korea.   One thing Hronek has that Toews doesn't is he's a RHD.   

Edited May 29 by IBatch

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, Gurn said:

2018-19	New York Islanders	NHL	48	5	13	18	4	7	8	1	4	5	0
2019-20	New York Islanders	NHL	68	6	22	28	16	1	22	2	8	10	6
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	53	9	22	31	16	29	10	1	5	6	2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	66	13	44	57	20	52	20	5	10	15	8
2022-23	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	80	7	43	50	26	39	7	1	8	9	0
2023-24	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	12	38	50	18	28	10	1	5	6

 

and Hronek

2018-19	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	46	5	18	23	30	-10	--	--	--	--	--
2018-19	Grand Rapids Griffins	AHL	31	7	17	24	45	0	5	0	3	3	28
2019-20	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	65	9	22	31	46	-38	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Hradec Kralove	Czech	22	10	13	23	18	15	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	56	2	24	26	16	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	78	5	33	38	36	-29	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	60	9	29	38	34	8	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	4	0	1	1	0	-1	--	--	--	--	--
2023-24	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	5	43	48	38	33	13	1	1	2

 

 

1 guy has never hit 50, the other has done it 3 times.

A jump of ten points playing 17 more games, all with QHs, isn't inspiring enough for a full term deal.  

 

If he can score 40 points and close to ten goals on his own pairing, absolutely pay the guy and give him the term.  Still think even then, 5-6 years but get he's a RHD and they are unicorns.   The playoffs proved that pairing can be shut down.   The league got the book on it and the second half was a totally different story, first half was looking amazing.  

 

   Would rather see Zadorov on the top pairing playing his off side.   At least you know QHs is safe then.    Try Hronek on his own pairing.    We can have a great first pairing and a solid second and third.   Hronek anchoring his own pairing is important to team structure.  

Edited May 29 by IBatch

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

A jump of ten points playing 17 more games, all with QHs, isn't inspiring.   If he can score 40 points and close to ten goals on his own pairing, absolutely pay the guy and give him the term. 

I'm leaning more to this guy being gone, than staying.

appears to want too much money, and this year was unable to lead a second pairing.

I'd rather have 2 strong D pairings, than 1 super pair.

40 plus minutes of good strength is better than 23 minutes of 'super' strength, to me.

edit to add

I'm a fair bit concerned over Hronek's injury bug.

Is that the same shoulder that was messed up, at the end of season?

Edited May 29 by Gurn

[fuzzy]

29 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I'm leaning more to this guy being gone, than staying.

appears to want too much money, and this year was unable to lead a second pairing.

I'd rather have 2 strong D pairings, than 1 super pair.

40 plus minutes of good strength is better than 23 minutes of 'super' strength, to me.

edit to add

I'm a fair bit concerned over Hronek's injury bug.

Is that the same shoulder that was messed up, at the end of season?

I agree completely. Hronek is good player but he's not worth top pair dollars. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Alf, what did Mike Gillis sign Edler for?   How many years.   Or Hamhuis or Bieksa for that matter, and what had they achieved up until then.   Hronek isn't Toews.    

But he ruined the club for 10 years with all those contracts.

 

But back to Hronek...Will be tough to replace his minutes if he's not re-signed.  Nor can we afford to overpay to re-sign him.  Times like these are why Alvin gets paid the big bucks.

Edited May 29 by NewbieCanuckFan

[kettlevalley]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yep.  And the WAR cards are not even close.   Ask Miss Korea.   One thing Hronek has that Toews doesn't is he's a RHD.   

And another is Toews was signed at a lower cap level

[Dr. Crossbar]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

The cap squeeze is going to create some tough decisions.    Tanev is probably a lateral add at this point, and who knows if he won't do exactly what Salo did at the same age, as in only play a small portion of the games.    Going back to playing first pairing minutes with QHs is a big ask.  

 

Tanev is good for middle depth in our D short term. Anything more than that is expecting way too much, imo. Plus he'll be 35. There's a high likelihood that he follows along the path of Ian Cole at that age. He's not a top pairing option. I think people are too caught up in nostalgia with him.

 

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Hronek on his own pair is what Allvin wants to see.    Believe that's him hinting either he's going to sign him long term and roll the dice or he's telling us that he hasn't seen enough yet to give out a massive legacy deal.   Hronek is prickly with the press, don't mind that either.   Our press  barely hides their loaded questions.   Part of this market, unlikely to ever change.    They are fans too, and can't hardly blame them after the past decade.   Getting impatient.    

 

Well, I can look at a couple trains of thought with this. On one hand, I think the real value is in the Hughes-Hronek pairing. That's set, known and that's where most of the value and magic comes from. They were breaking records and atop the league as a pair in the first half. That can't be ignored nor should it. The second half doesn't negate that. The entire team struggled. There's much more to see from Hughes - Hronek. That wasn't their ceiling.  I believe their best is yet to come. 

 

On the other, more conventional side, wanting Hronek to carry his own pair is fair. Not sure if I agree given what I said above but it is fair. I've long said that I do believe that Hronek working with Gonchar and Foote helps this along and gives me confidence that it can happen. Hronek's playing a different game than what he did in Detroit and he does have other dimensions to his game. I do think this can happen but it may take some time. With Hronek carrying his own pair, sliding down, it likely means we'll get another top D.

 

When you say the press and part of this market is unlikely to change, that's interesting. I do believe it can change, and likely will at some, everything does. Winning certainly changes the dynamics and exposes a certain negative undercurrent. It's funny to see people clinging to that negativity for dear life when we're actually winning and a good team. The media are largely pretty soft in this town, controlled through access, with a portion of sensationalist bottom feeders catering to a bottom feeding mentality. It's circular. A large portion of this fanbase is a reflection of the media. But what people don't realize is that the media in this market is ripe for disruption and innovation. 

 

You know as well as I do, changes take time. But what this management has done is a short amount of time is remarkable. That turnaround should foster confidence rather than derision. The past decade is just that, in the past. On a certain level, some of that impatience was actually satisfied and should be acknowledged. We made the playoffs and got what we wanted in a new window and new era. 

 

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Personally hoping they can agree on a bridge.   Know we risk having to really pay later to keep him.    We've also got Willander as the heir apparent and hopeful.    It takes a village.    D-Petey too.    It makes tactical sense to sign other guys first.   Who can test free agency.   Then go back to Hronek, once we have that sorted out.   
 

Fully expect Allvin is on the phones finding out what the ask will be on Mikheyev.    That's also a priority.  

 

I'd like to see him come in at 5 -years, put it behind us, and just get down to business building a winner. That leaves more than enough time to get the other young guys up and running. 

 

Yeah, Mik has to go. There's no two ways about it. We need that cap. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29 by Dr. Crossbar

[HKSR]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

2018-19	New York Islanders	NHL	48	5	13	18	4	7	8	1	4	5	0
2019-20	New York Islanders	NHL	68	6	22	28	16	1	22	2	8	10	6
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	53	9	22	31	16	29	10	1	5	6	2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	66	13	44	57	20	52	20	5	10	15	8
2022-23	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	80	7	43	50	26	39	7	1	8	9	0
2023-24	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	12	38	50	18	28	10	1	5	6

 

and Hronek

2018-19	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	46	5	18	23	30	-10	--	--	--	--	--
2018-19	Grand Rapids Griffins	AHL	31	7	17	24	45	0	5	0	3	3	28
2019-20	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	65	9	22	31	46	-38	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Hradec Kralove	Czech	22	10	13	23	18	15	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	56	2	24	26	16	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	78	5	33	38	36	-29	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	60	9	29	38	34	8	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	4	0	1	1	0	-1	--	--	--	--	--
2023-24	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	5	43	48	38	33	13	1	1	2

 

 

1 guy has never hit 50, the other has done it 3 times.

Age matters. 

 

Just answer 2 questions and I'll leave it be:

 

1.  How old was Devon Toews when he hit 28 points?  Or even 31 points for that matter?

 

2.  How old is Hronek now?

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Tanev is good for middle depth in our D short term. Anything more than that is expecting way too much, imo. Plus he'll be 35. There's a high likelihood that he follows along the path of Ian Cole at that age. He's not a top pairing option. I think people are too caught up in nostalgia with him.

 

 

Well, I can look at a couple trains of thought with this. On one hand, I think the real value is in the Hughes-Hronek pairing. That's set, known and that's where most of the value and magic comes from. They were breaking records and atop the league as a pair in the first half. That can't be ignored nor should it. The second half doesn't negate that. The entire team struggled. There's much more to see from Hughes - Hronek. That wasn't their ceiling.  I believe their best is yet to come. 

 

On the other, more conventional side, wanting Hronek to carry his own pair is fair. Not sure if I agree given what I said above but it is fair. I've long said that I do believe that Hronek working with Gonchar and Foote helps this along and gives me confidence that it can happen. Hronek's playing a different game than what he did in Detroit and he does have other dimensions to his game. I do think this can happen but it may take some time. With Hronek carrying his own pair, sliding down, it likely means we'll get another top D.

 

When you say the press and part of this market is unlikely to change, that's interesting. I do believe it can change, and likely will at some, everything does. Winning certainly changes the dynamics and exposes a certain negative undercurrent. It's funny to see people clinging to that negativity for dear life when we're actually winning and a good team. The media are largely pretty soft in this town, controlled through access, with a portion of sensationalist bottom feeders catering to a bottom feeding mentality. It's circular. A large portion of this fanbase is a reflection of the media. But what people don't realize is that the media in this market is ripe for disruption and innovation. 

 

You know as well as I do, changes take time. But what this management has done is a short amount of time is remarkable. That turnaround should foster confidence rather than derision. The past decade is just that, in the past. On a certain level, some of that impatience was actually satisfied and should be acknowledged. We made the playoffs and got what we wanted in a new window and new era. 

 

 

I'd like to see him come in at 5 -years, put it behind us, and just get down to business building a winner. That leaves more than enough time to get the other young guys up and running. 

 

Yeah, Mik has to go. There's no two ways about it. We need that cap. 

 

 

 

 

Yep we can't negate their red hot start .

 

100% agree with Tanev, that's a sentimental thing.   Used Salo as a 2011 example.   He was the same old Salo, just 35 or so at the time and barely played during the regular season.   Lumme was a lot better but gets little love won't get into that.   Salo and Tanev receive legendary status, only one of them was part of those great Sedin teams.    Plus I doubt he's going to make it to free agency, Dallas likes him, wants him back and his projected contract there is 4.5 x 2, to match we need to bump it well over 5.   Sign Zadarov please and thank you.

 

As for Hronek,  the smart people say 6.1 x 3 or 7.4 with term (7-8 years).    We simply can't compete with the bottom line on him.    

 

5 years makes sense for the team.   So does a bridge or a trade after trying to sign him and going after a stop gap.   If he's not careful, he's going to Klingberg himself.    39 and 48 points are nothing to sneeze at, so is playing with QHs for 3 more years and cashing out.   I get Erhoff vibes.   

 

Edit: Finally what has he done that Edler didn't do?  And what did he get.    If he was a LHD, this wouldn't be a contested topic.   

Edited May 29 by IBatch

[Gurn]

33 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Age matters. 

 

Just answer 2 questions and I'll leave it be:

 

1.  How old was Devon Toews when he hit 28 points?  Or even 31 points for that matter?

 

2.  How old is Hronek now?

Was my post factually incorrect, as a reply to the previous poster's statement?

 

"Toews has never had the numbers of Hronek. Hronek had way better numbers this year. He’s better than Toews. More skill, better defensively and more bite. Hronek is the superior player. That’s a fact. "

 

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

33 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep we can't negate their red hot start .

 

Can't negate that at all. Also can't have it both ways. They're both hitting their prime. I'm banking on that pairing being even better.

 

33 minutes ago, IBatch said:

100% agree with Tanev, that's a sentimental thing.   Used Salo as a 2011 example.  

 

We can even use Myers this year. He'll be 35 next year too. Can't have old man Tanev and old man Myers. Gotta get younger on the blueline not older. People were screaming for years that we need to get younger. 

 

33 minutes ago, IBatch said:

As for Hronek,  the smart people say 6.1 x 3 or 7.4 with term (7-8 years).

 

Well, you have to admit, the so called "smart people" were wrong over and over and over again this year about the Canucks. That was beautiful.

 

This isn't about Edler, it's about Hronek who's not a LHD.

 

Hronek doesn't suck. He's not trash. The entire team struggled in the second half. Again, Hughes and Hronek are both hitting their prime. That pairing will become even better. There's even more room for them to be better.

 

Like you agreed, we can't negate their red hot start.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29 by Dr. Crossbar

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Can't negate that at all. Also can't have it both ways. They're both hitting their prime. I'm banking on that pairing being even better.

 

 

We can even use Myers this year. He'll be 35 next year too. Can't have old man Tanev and old man Myers. Gotta get younger on the blueline not older. People were screaming for years that we need to get younger. 

 

 

Well, you have to admit, the so called "smart people" were wrong over and over and over again this year about the Canucks. That was beautiful.

 

This isn't about Edler, it's about Hronek who's not a LHD.

 

Hronek doesn't suck. He's not trash. The entire team struggled in the second half. Again, Hughes and Hronek are both hitting their prime. That pairing will become even better. There's even more room for them to be better.

 

Like you agreed, we can't negate their red hot start.

 

 

 

 

Of course he doesn't suck.   What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is why players and fans think they should get massive payday's without a pedigree.   There are plenty of players who didn't suck, forwards and defensemen, that had to and should still have to, get a 7-8 year deal.     Allvin might consider it.  Have no clue.   Other than to say it doesn't come without a big risk to the club.   Both ways but more the club IMO. 

 

The first person in club history to get a max deal is EP.   Nalsund didn't.    The Sedins didn't.    Think about that for a little while.   He's not a star coming off an ELC.    What has he really done to deserve 9 plus of the cap percentage (8 x 8).   Few player's in our history have got more and they were stars.   Before they got it.   7.875 is 9% of the expected cap increase...

Edited May 29 by IBatch

[Dr. Crossbar]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Of course he doesn't suck.   What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is why players and fans think they should get massive payday's without a pedigree.   There are plenty of players who didn't suck, forwards and defensemen, that had to and should still have to, get a 7-8 year deal.     Allvin might consider it.  Have no clue.   Other than to say it doesn't come without a big risk to the club.   Both ways but more the club IMO. 

 

The first person in club history to get a max deal is EP.   Nalsund didn't.    The Sedins didn't.    Think about that for a little while.   He's not a star coming off an ELC. 

 

Well, the thing is, people are treating this more black and white, one or the other, going to extremes with the first half and second half, as if he sucks now because of the second half. That's not the case. It's not that extreme.

 

Hronek came back down to earth in the second half. That's a good thing for the club in negotiations. Still, what he did with Hughes in the first half can't be ignored and is part of his value along with being a top pairing RHD on a contending team who had an early record breaking season. So you look at the open market and think, well, a team could give him $8 if that's his hard line. There is a case to be made that he can command that. 

 

The guy established himself in Detroit, took his game to new heights here in Vancouver to became one of the league's top defensemen.  Even if the stats don't bear all of that out, there's still a perception of what he is now based on his performance this past season. Especially in the first half. It was record breaking. That counts to a certain degree of pedigree and certainly value. 

 

The reality is, and unfortunately for Hronek, is that he still has more to prove after coming down to earth in the second half. Had he kept that pace throughout the second half, this would be a completely different discussion. 

 

I don't believe we should be offering max term and massive max dollars. His second half brought that back down to earth. But I do believe we need to lock him up as our top pairing RHD at a fair price to player and team. 

 

In saying that, though, we're a top team now and we're going to have to pay for top Dmen. It's just where we're at now.

 

 

[AnthonyG]

6 hours ago, Gurn said:

2018-19	New York Islanders	NHL	48	5	13	18	4	7	8	1	4	5	0
2019-20	New York Islanders	NHL	68	6	22	28	16	1	22	2	8	10	6
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	53	9	22	31	16	29	10	1	5	6	2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	66	13	44	57	20	52	20	5	10	15	8
2022-23	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	80	7	43	50	26	39	7	1	8	9	0
2023-24	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	12	38	50	18	28	10	1	5	6

 

and Hronek

2018-19	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	46	5	18	23	30	-10	--	--	--	--	--
2018-19	Grand Rapids Griffins	AHL	31	7	17	24	45	0	5	0	3	3	28
2019-20	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	65	9	22	31	46	-38	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Hradec Kralove	Czech	22	10	13	23	18	15	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	56	2	24	26	16	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	78	5	33	38	36	-29	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	60	9	29	38	34	8	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	4	0	1	1	0	-1	--	--	--	--	--
2023-24	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	5	43	48	38	33	13	1	1	2

 

 

1 guy has never hit 50, the other has done it 3 times.

Now on that very same note… who has had more opportunities for offence? The guy with near 50/50 ozone start at 5v5 or the guy with 60/40 split?

Hronek has been given mainly 50% ozone distribution and Toews has had roughly 60% ozone deployment, so its really not that impressive in comparison.