Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Dr. Crossbar]

If you look at top contending teams, they're actually paying for priority on D. Vegas, Avs, etc ... They have an elite Dman getting elite money with a couple other Dmen commanding somewhere between $5-6.5 mill.

 

So, giving Hronek a raise won't be out of step with what contending teams are doing. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

If you look at top contending teams, they're actually paying for priority on D. Vegas, Avs, etc ... They have an elite Dman getting elite money with a couple other Dmen commanding somewhere between $5-6.5 mill.

 

So, giving Hronek a raise won't be out of step with what contending teams are doing. 

Yup. We have Hughes as our top dollar guy on D. Hronek is a fabulous player but clearly he’s going to get paid a cap allocation less that Quinn. Benning was a dumbo but that Hughes contract was great. Now zhronek (who is worth 9.5 per) will be getting 7.5. 

[coolboarder]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

If you look at top contending teams, they're actually paying for priority on D. Vegas, Avs, etc ... They have an elite Dman getting elite money with a couple other Dmen commanding somewhere between $5-6.5 mill.

 

So, giving Hronek a raise won't be out of step with what contending teams are doing. 

Since Hronek is under our control for one more year after this season, and I can see him staying beyond his UFA fi we decide to buy his UFA years at a reasonable price and go for highest bidding at end of Hughes's contract.  He will get paid hugely, for sure.  I'm sure that teams would want to see a big sample size to get paid more (see if he can play without Hughes for some sample size during his Canucks tenure in case of a pairing split in the future.

[Canucklehead44]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Yup. We have Hughes as our top dollar guy on D. Hronek is a fabulous player but clearly he’s going to get paid a cap allocation less that Quinn. Benning was a dumbo but that Hughes contract was great. Now zhronek (who is worth 9.5 per) will be getting 7.5. 

I think 7.5-7.8 for Hronek is fair. He is playing above that but is benefitting greatly from the situation and based on his Detroit performance would have gotten 7 tops 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Canucklehead44 said:

I think 7.5-7.8 for Hronek is fair. He is playing above that but is benefitting greatly from the situation and based on his Detroit performance would have gotten 7 tops 

Yup. Hughes made AHL D look like they were good. So clearly he’s giving Hronek a bump too. 
How incredible is it that we have a (pretty damn close to) D man like Bobby “friggin’ Orr”? 
Dahlin. LMAAOAV 

[aGENT]

32 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

Well, I tried to explain it in as many ways as I could. Even asked someone else in real life if what I was saying made sense (they read our conversation) and they said it did make sense. So I kind of give up at this point. You have your ideas set. lol

 

My idea set that not moving out other cap first is the only "issue" with signing Mik...yup. I have no idea what you're going on with re: Garland and any potential trade value. I don't really care what the value was, rumoured or otherwise...yet you seem intent on arguing about it.

[Dr. Crossbar]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. We have Hughes as our top dollar guy on D. Hronek is a fabulous player but clearly he’s going to get paid a cap allocation less that Quinn. Benning was a dumbo but that Hughes contract was great. Now zhronek (who is worth 9.5 per) will be getting 7.5. 

 

That's the thing ... his cap allocation. That Hughes contract allows this in the here and now. We have three years to get it done with Hughes's current contract.

 

It's Hughes we really need to worry about since he's going to be a megastar.

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

 

How the hell is Mik debatable? Massive element missing from the roster... FAST, 2 way top 6 skill level support guy with size, that can PK. We need a 2nd "Mik" to bump PDG down to the bottom 6 where he belongs, not "debatably" one less.

 

The only thing debatable about it, was not "Bjorkstrand'ing" Garland and his cap when we had the chance, to clear the required cap and winger roster space.

Debatable at the time he was signed for sure.   That was cap the team could have used elsewhere, or left for some flexibility.    As far as the player goes, nothing at all wrong. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by IBatch

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

That's the thing ... his cap allocation. That Hughes contract allows this in the here and now. We have three years to get it done with Hughes's current contract.

 

It's Hughes we really need to worry about since he's going to be a megastar.

What would Orr get paid now? 15 mil? 

[Dr. Crossbar]

22 minutes ago, Canucklehead44 said:

I think 7.5-7.8 for Hronek is fair. He is playing above that but is benefitting greatly from the situation and based on his Detroit performance would have gotten 7 tops 

 

It's going to put him close to Hughes value wise, which is fair. I'd say he'll be coming in nearer to 7 since he won't be making as much as Hughes.

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What would Orr get paid now? 15 mil? 

 

Upwards of that. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Upwards of that. 

Exactly! Benning was a goofaroo but that Hughes contract is gold. It’s saving us 7 mil per. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

It's also interesting that recent rumor has Petey taking less on a shorter contract, which will be smart to fit Hronek in and if these guys all want to remain together for a legit run over the next three years.

[Alflives]

Just now, Dr. Crossbar said:

It's also interesting that recent rumor has Petey taking less on a shorter contract, which will be smart to fit Hronek in and if these guys all want to remain together for a legit run over the next three years.

It’s kind of good that JTM and Hughes (our two best players this year) are on cheaper cap allocations. So any forwards or D need (and will) respect that internal team cap. 

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Debatable at the time he was signed for sure.   That was cap the team could have used elsewhere, or left for some flexibility.    As far as the player goes, nothing at all wrong. 

That's a problem with not moving out winger cap elsewhere, not adding Mik. Mik is a very much needed role player on this team (so much so, we still need another).

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That's a problem with not moving out winger cap elsewhere, not adding Mik. Mik is a very much needed role player on this team (so much so, we still need another).

Mik is a beauty. Joshua is a much needed type too. Love to get us another heavy body who can skate and be physical. Allvin will get er’ done. He’s proven it. 

[OldFaithfulcap]

 

 

I wasn't too bad in the original thread actually but fine to take the loss here. He's a great addition, and his salary hit is small this season which helped us add blueger (if compared to bo - new beau). 

 

 

On 5/26/2023 at 9:11 AM, OldFaithfulCap said:

I'm not happy with the trade as I have doubts about Hronek and I would have kept the pick. Too early to tell but I worry that his shoulder injury will continue to affect his play and I think the Wings didn't want to commit to him for good reasons. We'll see.

Edited November 22, 2023 by OldFaithfulcap

[Hero11]

100% happy we got him.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

That's a problem with not moving out winger cap elsewhere, not adding Mik. Mik is a very much needed role player on this team (so much so, we still need another).

Yep.   And get you can't always get what you want without making sacrifices.   It was just funny that after years of always spending to the cap, one of their first moves was to sign Ilya Mikheyev, essentially doing the same thing JB used too.   In the end it worked out ok, last year was a disaster on the ice, and things worked out great, but for a moment it did appear like "oh no, here we go again".   Spending to the cap and still can't get it done.   Moving Horvat and acquiring Hronek sure worked out.  

 

 And watched Ilya M enough to know we were getting one of the better support players that TO group has had with their core (Hyman the other).    A Pearson upgrade,  but not a cheap one.   Speedy, and a key cog trying to fix a terrible PK.   And for sure he's got a chance to well exceed his cap hit,,  a pretty sweet gig on EPs line, also a pretty sweet gig in TO too. 

 

Team hasn't been able to move Garland, or wasn't willing to pay that cost.   He's still playing well enough.   And provides some depth too.  Another year off and cap going up, should put him into a better position to trade. 

 

 Adding a guy like Bertuzzi would have been nice.    Beau, get that but man does his cap add to the imbalance we have on the way the teams structured.    The money is there for another top four D, just have to wait.   And likely/ideally will need cost controlled one, so fully expect to see a first on the table plus something to get that.   

 

 All these things come into play because of expecting it easier to move guys then it actually is in this market.   And the price increase to sign them too.   They've basically admitted to that.     That's a steep cost for not having flexibility.   Same with OELs buyout.   Horvat trade, well we could have kept him instead too, and still acquired Hronek but it appears the teams better off without his cap hit (sure he'd of stayed for Millers hit though).   That means no Willander though.  

 

Things worked out great.  But for sure more than one approach, and they for sure made it awfully hard on themselves capwise, it wasn't just Benning.   Next year we should be able to afford another top four D, even with raises.    Could do it this year, cost our first and something and they'd have to take Beau.     Once that OEL worst couple years are in play ...well you get it.    Might as well go for it. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by IBatch

[Barn Burner]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   And get you can't always get what you want without making sacrifices.   It was just funny that after years of always spending to the cap, one of their first moves was to sign Ilya Mikheyev, essentially doing the same thing JB used too.   In the end it worked out ok, last year was a disaster on the ice, and things worked out great, but for a moment it did appear like "oh no, here we go again".   Spending to the cap and still can't get it done.   Moving Horvat and acquiring Hronek sure worked out.  

 

 And watched Ilya M enough to know we were getting one of the better support players that TO group has had with their core (Hyman the other).    A Pearson upgrade,  but not a cheap one.   Speedy.   And for sure he's got a chance to well exceed his cap hit,,  a pretty sweet gig on EPs line. 

Based on Mikheyev's PPG in his rookie year, (2019-20) he was amongst the leaders before he got injured. 

 

He finished with 23 pts in 39 games. 

[IBatch]

26 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

Based on Mikheyev's PPG in his rookie year, (2019-20) he was amongst the leaders before he got injured. 

 

He finished with 23 pts in 39 games. 

Don't have any problem with the player at all.     Glad he's on the team too.   Watched him a lot, knew exactly what we were getting, didn't even flinch at the cap hit, a bit high for a middle six forward, who spent a lot of time on Mathews line, but he's got size ,wheels and in his prime.   And could PK, and well.   Our PK was trash.     Figured we should get his best seasons.    And if he can keep up to Mathews, same thing with EP.

 

Edit:  Bieksa also picked him to have a possible breakout, or another gear this year (near the start of the season).    That sure would be great.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by IBatch

[Hairy Kneel]

At first I was like ah no.

Now I'm like ah yeah

 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

If you look at top contending teams, they're actually paying for priority on D. Vegas, Avs, etc ... They have an elite Dman getting elite money with a couple other Dmen commanding somewhere between $5-6.5 mill.

 

So, giving Hronek a raise won't be out of step with what contending teams are doing. 

Tampa Bay too.   And keep in mind these teams also pay 36.6 tax (Vegas, Dallas, Florida, TB, and now SEA anyways), aside from COL whose is just over 40.   We pay 53%.   Won't be as easy, but they will make it work, and QHs right now is a big part of making that work, so is Hronek this season.    Fully expect to be paying more for our D.   And that it will come off the wings.    And that we will seriously be looking for a cost controlled D as well.   TB had to move off McDonagh, to make room for Cernak.   Willander for sure is a key part of their plans.    
 

This team right now, would sure be in a better position, if we had one more guy.   The sooner the better IMO.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by IBatch

[SilentSam]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:53 PM, Odd. said:

Last thread had 49 pages. 

Yeah anyways I can’t belieeeeeeeeeeeve we traded a 1st and 2nd round pick for Hronek

 

ok ,    Let’s start over and send him back 

[Dr. Crossbar]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Tampa Bay too.   And keep in mind these teams also pay 36.6 tax (Vegas, Dallas, Florida, TB, and now SEA anyways), aside from COL whose is just over 40.   We pay 53%.   Won't be as easy, but they will make it work, and QHs right now is a big part of making that work, so is Hronek this season.    Fully expect to be paying more for our D.   And that it will come off the wings.    And that we will seriously be looking for a cost controlled D as well.   TB had to move off McDonagh, to make room for Cernak.   Willander for sure is a key part of their plans.    
 

This team right now, would sure be in a better position, if we had one more guy.   The sooner the better IMO.  

 

Good points.  The thing is with the money obstacle argument, JR and Allvin, came here to build a winner, build us into a contender, and win a Cup. JR took the job for one last challenge and kick at the Cup. He's driven to win. Allvin knows how to build a winner and we have Cup winning pedigrees and top level experience throughout our staff 

 

So, in order to get us there, management must figure out how to make it all work financially. Based on their decision making so far, the remarkable moves to date, I'm 100% confident they will figure it out the right way. They have to ... even though this is a Canadian market and they have different hurdles to overcome.

 

The fact is ... we have to pay for top defensemen ... and we need another one. It's not if we can do it, it just has to be done. 

 

Now that we have Hronek with Hughes at the top of the league, you don't win by subtracting Hronek ... you add to that pairing. And that's what Allvin is looking to do.

 

What helps this in money and timing is the looming arrival of Willander, D-Petey, and our other emerging prospects. 

 

With Hughes's current contract, we have three years (after this season) to take a legit run.