Alflives Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, IBatch said: Agree. Another angle is QHs Hronek with 20% of their time breaking it up, once NSH started hammering QHs to pulp, he stopped carrying the puck. Had to for survival. Hronek wasn't effective once this started. Tochett wised up to this. They were amazing for the first half of last season, and that helped us get to the playoffs and win the division. Every team has the book now on how to play that pairing. Maybe Hughes needs a smart skilled monster for his partner? Could Z be that guy? He can play his off side. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: that would be a great D core. If we do keep Hronek and Big Z, I wonder if Tanev would be a good partner for Z? We could keep Hronek with Hughes and Tanev could babysit Z? Not at all opposed to that. As long as EP gets something he can work with. If Lekkermaki's game can translate right away into the top six, and we can add a big hulking banger for then with some wheels .. It's tough. We've finally got 6 legit NHL D's. Would be nice to keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Maybe Hughes needs a smart skilled monster for his partner? Could Z be that guy? He can play his off side. Tochett sent him out with QHs a few times. Yes I think he could. He's got wheels too. That could work, it also works with Hronek. Zadorov with QHs I like very much, but maybe i'm showing my age a little. That is exactly what i'd do though. In this case we'd need a LHD to play with Hronek (easier to find) and Soucy Myers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) On 5/21/2024 at 10:44 AM, Blue said: Hold up. Why is everyone throwing Hronek in with the rest of the UFA's ? Hronek isn't a UFA. Also. He's 26 years old. Why is everyone assuming he's topped out and won't improve as a defensman ? He could be signed at 7-7.5 million and become a 10 million dollar player in the next 2 years Edler. Remember when he scored close to 50 and we all were thinking "holy crap what's he going to do in his prime!!!". 26 is close enough to know what your getting. Someone who's going to have his best season in the next couple years. 10 million! Is he going to score 70-80 points year after year? No. And guys like Carlson who did weren't making that, and absolutely there were signs he was going to explode. Neither was Hedman. Neither was EK or Doughty until they got their paycheque. Let's be real, what we are hoping for, is a 35-40 point guy who can carry his own line at 7-7.5, is unlikely he will ever get the first unit time with QHs or over QHs. OEL scored a lot of goals. Other guys did too. It's not all about points either, it's about defending. QHs Hronek, teams figured them out. Better off splitting them up or running two different pairings depending on who we play, not an Al Mac Pronger, Neidermayer Steven's or Neidermayer Pronger thing. They got punished, once QHs had to stop carrying the puck for survival, that pairing was solid but not dynamic. And actually feel Hronek was neutralized completely as a result. Have realistic expectations. What he's earned is a 5 year deal. RHD, add the 2-3 years get that. Spurgeon in MIN. That's a good comp. Hope so anyways, Dumba? Erhoff? It doesn't always work out the way it's supposed too. It's a risk a big risk, to open the vault. Toews was proven in NYI and had way better advanced stats. Edited June 13 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 52 minutes ago, IBatch said: Tochett sent him out with QHs a few times. Yes I think he could. He's got wheels too. That could work, it also works with Hronek. Zadorov with QHs I like very much, but maybe i'm showing my age a little. That is exactly what i'd do though. In this case we'd need a LHD to play with Hronek (easier to find) and Soucy Myers. Maybe Soucy plays with Hronek and D Petey is ready for third pairing minutes with Myers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Maybe Soucy plays with Hronek and D Petey is ready for third pairing minutes with Myers? You think Myers will be in Abby? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Edler. Remember when he scored close to 50 and we all were thinking "holy crap what's he going to do in his prime!!!". 26 is close enough to know what your getting. Someone who's going to have his best season in the next couple years. 10 million! Is he going to score 70-80 points year after year? No. And guys like Carlson who did weren't making that, and absolutely there were signs he was going to explode. Neither was Hedman. Neither was EK or Doughty until they got their paycheque. Let's be real, what we are hoping for, is a 35-40 point guy who can carry his own line at 7-7.5, is unlikely he will ever get the first unit time with QHs or over QHs. OEL scored a lot of goals. Other guys did too. It's not all about points either, it's about defending. QHs Hronek, teams figured them out. Better off splitting them up or running two different pairings depending on who we play, not an Al Mac Pronger, Neidermayer Steven's or Neidermayer Pronger thing. They got punished, once QHs had to stop carrying the puck for survival, that pairing was solid but not dynamic. And actually feel Hronek was neutralized completely as a result. Have realistic expectations. What he's earned is a 5 year deal. RHD, add the 2-3 years get that. Spurgeon in MIN. That's a good comp. Hope so anyways, Dumba? Erhoff? It doesn't always work out the way it's supposed too. It's a risk a big risk, to open the vault. Toews was proven in NYI and had way better advanced stats. Yeah I'd try Soucy-Hronek together. A true defensive defenceman that allows Hronek to do whatever he wants offensively. Zadorov-Myers could be a pair. That leaves Hughes.... we've seen him elevate guys like Luke Schenn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 26 minutes ago, HKSR said: Yeah I'd try Soucy-Hronek together. A true defensive defenceman that allows Hronek to do whatever he wants offensively. we do have a very small sample size of this, its not good: https://naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=VAN&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2023-10-10&td=2024-04-18&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8477369&p2=8479425&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0 hard to say how much weight to put on 44 min's over 39 games tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 13 minutes ago, Bob Long said: we do have a very small sample size of this, its not good: https://naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=VAN&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2023-10-10&td=2024-04-18&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8477369&p2=8479425&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0 hard to say how much weight to put on 44 min's over 39 games tho. I wouldn't put much weight on 44min over 39 games. We need a much larger sample size to see how it works out long term as they need time to adjust to one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 11 minutes ago, HKSR said: I wouldn't put much weight on 44min over 39 games. We need a much larger sample size to see how it works out long term as they need time to adjust to one another. agreed, its just a bit curious to see it so lopsided. But certainly starting out the season, paired up through camp would give us a real shot at it. Just wondering if there's something wrong with the mix - is Soucy more mobile a partner than Hronek needs maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairGM22 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) On 3/6/2024 at 7:57 PM, Hammertime said: Are you arguing over 200k. I think if Hronek were able to drive his pairing and find chemistry with say Zadorov, Cole, Soucy like Hughes has with Schenn, Tanev, Bear, Juulsen, anyone you put next to him. Then maybe he could be looking at 9m. As it stands I think 7.8 is a good payday for Hronek and maybe he should make 50k less than his meal ticket. I am more at 6.95 x 8 - but apply your logic. Go look at the list of dmen making close to $8 mil or above. Other than Nurse and one other who I can't remember who's overpaid, Hronek is not in the same class. When you're approaching $8 you're a Norris potential Dman. Hronek is not. he's an excellent #3/4 and support as a #2 with a stud like Quinn. You want 8 mil, you have to be able to lead your own pair, give some rest to Quinn, and put up 45-50pts. That's not Hronek. On his own pair he would not be the same. ie He's no Roman Josi #2 to Shea Weber's #1 and isn't growing into that. Edited June 13 by ArmchairGM22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 8 minutes ago, ArmchairGM22 said: I am more at 6.95 x 8 - but apply your logic. Go look at the list of dmen making close to $8 mil or above. Other than Nurse and one other who I can't remember who's overpaid, Hronek is not in the same class. When you're approaching $8 you're a Norris potential Dman. Hronek is not. he's an excellent #3/4 and support as a #2 with a stud like Quinn. You want 8 mil, you have to be able to lead your own pair, give some rest to Quinn, and put up 45-50pts. That's not Hronek. On his own pair he would not be the same. ie He's no Roman Josi #2 to Shea Weber's #1 and isn't growing into that. Erik Karlsson at 11.5, Trouba at 8, Werensky at almost 10, Seth Jones at 9.5 and Rasmus Dahlin at 11 would be on that list as overpaid IMHO. Karlsson arguably earned it, the rest are good players and for the most part significantly better than Hronek but significantly overpaid for what they bring. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairGM22 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Erik Karlsson at 11.5, Trouba at 8, Werensky at almost 10, Seth Jones at 9.5 and Rasmus Dahlin at 11 would be on that list as overpaid IMHO. Karlsson arguably earned it, the rest are good players and for the most part significantly better than Hronek but significantly overpaid for what they bring. Ya, Jones was the one I was thinking about. The comp I look at is Severson. $50 mil over 8 years, signed just last year. Big RD who can skate - check Point producer - averaged .61 ppg in his LONGER career. Pretty much a consistent 50 pt dman for the last 8 years His AAV is $6.25 Not sure how Hronek thinks he's worth more than that. Hronek hasn't even produced at the same level nor for as long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 It's interesting how people want to go backward in time with certain players by thinking that will make us winners when we've taken a huge leap forward because of the new dynamics, caliber of different and better players that Allvin brought to this team, including Hronek. When Hughes was with Luke Schenn the problem was that he was still doing too much, carrying too much of a load because of Schenn's limitations. That was a good pairing for that time period and that phase in Hughes's growth. Also, the real value is in the Hughes - Hronek pairing that's known. That's the primary value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 39 minutes ago, ArmchairGM22 said: Ya, Jones was the one I was thinking about. The comp I look at is Severson. $50 mil over 8 years, signed just last year. Big RD who can skate - check Point producer - averaged .61 ppg in his LONGER career. Pretty much a consistent 50 pt dman for the last 8 years His AAV is $6.25 Not sure how Hronek thinks he's worth more than that. Hronek hasn't even produced at the same level nor for as long. Hronek is a way better player right now than EK or Dahlin. Any number under 64 mil is a steal for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairGM22 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Hronek is a way better player right now than EK or Dahlin. Any number under 64 mil is a steal for us. Karlson was paid for what he had accomplished.....Hronek is not better than Dahlin Troll better Edited June 13 by ArmchairGM22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 $7.5M x 8 will get it done. That's a $60M deal. The equivalent on the UFA market over 7 years is nearly $8.6M x 7! Hronek would be foolish to turn that down. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, HKSR said: $7.5M x 8 will get it done. That's a $60M deal. The equivalent on the UFA market over 7 years is nearly $8.6M x 7! Hronek would be foolish to turn that down. Not really when you consider on a 7 year deal he will be 33 instead of 34 when it expires and might get a better retirement deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 6 minutes ago, Hammertime said: Not really when you consider on a 7 year deal he will be 33 instead of 34 when it expires and might get a better retirement deal. How many players get retirement deals at 33yo? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, HKSR said: $7.5M x 8 will get it done. That's a $60M deal. The equivalent on the UFA market over 7 years is nearly $8.6M x 7! Hronek would be foolish to turn that down. If Allvin floats Hronek’s name out to other GMs as available the offers might be too good to refuse, even if the player will sign for 60 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: How many players get retirement deals at 33yo? Most. What would you consider Tanev and Myers next deals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, Hammertime said: Most. What would you consider Tanev and Myers next deals? When you say retirement deals, I picture the JT Miller type contracts. Not the one-off contracts that are 1 or 2 year deals. Besides, I wouldn't say MOST 33yo+ defencemen get solid deals when their contracts are up. Tanev and Myers, and maybe Dillon are the ones from this list of 33 to 34yo UFA defencemen that will get anything north of $3M. The rest will be lucky to land a $2M deal at most. I'd say MOST of these guys are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 23 minutes ago, HKSR said: When you say retirement deals, I picture the JT Miller type contracts. Not the one-off contracts that are 1 or 2 year deals. Besides, I wouldn't say MOST 33yo+ defencemen get solid deals when their contracts are up. Tanev and Myers, and maybe Dillon are the ones from this list of 33 to 34yo UFA defencemen that will get anything north of $3M. The rest will be lucky to land a $2M deal at most. I'd say MOST of these guys are done. Sure whatever semantics I would call your last contract a retirement contract. And your point is Moo most of those guys were at best 4/5d in their primes. I'm sure Hronek will still be decent at 33. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, Hammertime said: Sure whatever semantics I would call your last contract a retirement contract. And your point is Moo most of those guys were at best 4/5d in their primes. I'm sure Hronek will still be decent at 33. Maybe... but who knows. Speaking of semantics... it's a 'moot' point Now I'm just being annoying because I'm at the end of my work day lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: Maybe... but who knows. Speaking of semantics... it's a 'moot' point Now I'm just being annoying because I'm at the end of my work day lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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