Am I the only one willing to overpay Hronek ?

[KoreanHockeyFan]

1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said:

I take Toews anyday over Hronek

 

What I'm getting from this is that media pundits probably get fed inside scoops from player agents in exchange for helping pump up their clients' market value by "reporting" these inflated contract rumours.

 

Don't know how many times I've heard from local air waves about how Hronek's contract value will start with an 8, Petey is accepting nothing less than 12, etc. 

 

Vancouver media at it's best. 

Edited March 11 by KoreanHockeyFan

[Dr. Crossbar]

59 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

At the end of the day what really matters is what effect the player has on the team. One can poke as many holes in Hronek's game as they want to try and justify lowballing him, but the fact remains that his impact on our D core has been substantial. Substantial enough to be one of the major contributing factors in turning this team from a bottom 10 team in the league to one of the top 5  overnight. 

 

Pay the man ffs.

 

Smart take! Exactly this! And it's been that way since the trade was announced. It was an instant improvement. 

 

It was also exactly what people were wanting on our blueline for months and exactly what we got.

 

It was a key move that turned us into a winner. Some can't handle that.

 

[Coconuts]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Smart take! Exactly this! And it's been that way since the trade was announced. It was an instant improvement. 

 

It was also exactly what people were wanting on our blueline for months and exactly what we got.

 

It was a key move that turned us into a winner. Some can't handle that.

 

 

Some folks want the pieces that help make a team competitive, if not more, but don't want to pay the piper 

 

The cost of players having success, whether that's individual or team success, is having to pay players money

 

The cup finalist that loses has to juggle the same financial realities as the finalist that wins it all

Edited March 11 by Coconuts

[Dr. Crossbar]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Some folks want the pieces that help make a team competitive, if not more, but don't want to pay the piper 

 

The cost of players having success, whether that's individual or team success, is having to pay players money

 

The cup finalist that loses has to juggle the same financial realities as the team the finalist that wins it all

 

Exactly. People can't cry that we need a top young RHD, and then cry when we get one, he succeeds, and then complain he'll be too expensive. Ridiculous.

 

All you need to do is look at other top teams and how they're structuring it. Winning doesn't come cheap with top players.

 

We've had so many years of losing, people freak out when we do what winners do because they don't recognize it. 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Exactly. People can't cry that we need a top young RHD, and then cry when we get one, he succeeds, and then complain he'll be too expensive. Ridiculous.

 

All you need to do is look at other top teams and how they're structuring it. Winning doesn't come cheap with top players.

 

We've had so many years of losing, people freak out when we do what winners do because they don't recognize it. 

 

Yup, I was skeptical of the Hronek trade at the time but it's worked out nicely. Sure, he benefits from playing with Hughes, but he's actually playing well and putting up points while doing so. We've seen other D play with him and not, it's a good problem to have. 

 

But yeah, gotta pay the pieces that actually work out. Joshua will likely get more than some folks like too for just that reason, be it here or elsewhere. Pettersson just got his bag because he's developed into a franchise level talent, what a problem to have. Same goes for Hughes. 

 

We could always be stuck paying a Gagner, Del Zotto, Spooner, Schaller, Eriksson, or so on. Folks should look back on some of the rosters we've iced since 2013 onward from time to time, things could be much bleaker. 

[yawn]

I think 7 to 7.5 is fair but if he asked for 8 I mean whatever just don't resign Myers. He's holding 6 million and we look better without Myers than we have all season. Soucy is a major upgrade. 

 

Honestly I think our top 4 are Hughes, Hronek, Soucy and Zadorov. 

 

I really really really like that Zadorov brings grit to our team and isn't afraid to stand up to guys, play the body but has good hands too. Seriously underrated imo. 

 

Somebody also posted a stats page for Hronek and those numbers are very misleading. When ur playing with Hughes all year, ur gonna look good regardless who you are. That's not to say he's a bad player without Hughes, he's just inflated by Hughes (good for him bad for management)

[WillisD]

7 hours ago, Coryberg said:

There is a small issue there called a salary cap.

I understand there's a salary cap. But like I said. " I trust Alvin". That's for him to sort out. 

[CanuckMan]

Realistically be will be around 7.5M. 
 

Anywhere 6.5-7 you take it and run

[Jetliner]

He knows his numbers are inflated playing with Hughes. 7 mil AAv take it or leave it. 

[CanuckMan]

No team should have more than 5 “high dollar” players. Those 5 players should be:

 

Petey

Hughes

Demko

Hughes 

 

8-12M players in my opinion.

The 5th player should either be Boeser or Lindholm. 
 

Way better mix with 2 forwards, 2 defencemen and 1 goalie. Way better set up than Toronto’s 4 high pay forwards. 

[Amebushi]

1 hour ago, CanuckMan said:

No team should have more than 5 “high dollar” players. Those 5 players should be:

 

Petey

Hughes

Demko

Hughes 

 

8-12M players in my opinion.

The 5th player should either be Boeser or Lindholm. 
 

Way better mix with 2 forwards, 2 defencemen and 1 goalie. Way better set up than Toronto’s 4 high pay forwards. 

Am I missing something here?  That is only three players unless we are paying Hughes twice. Kinda guessing Miller belongs in there right now?  All I know is that this team is better with a Hronek on it than not. I think this management team is going to figure out how to keep him and Big Z around. Some other pieces may need to be shuffled but that is what contenders do. One top defenceman is not enough. We have years of mediocrity to prove it. Hoping for something that starts with a 7 but right handed defence that can play with a Hughes at a high level don’t grow on trees. 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, CanuckMan said:

No team should have more than 5 “high dollar” players. Those 5 players should be:

 

Petey

Hughes

Demko

Hughes 

 

8-12M players in my opinion.

The 5th player should either be Boeser or Lindholm. 
 

Way better mix with 2 forwards, 2 defencemen and 1 goalie. Way better set up than Toronto’s 4 high pay forwards. 

JT Miller?!!

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, Metal Face Doom said:

What Canuck fans think is an "overpay" is really market value a lot of the times.  7-7.5 is what his market will be.  So anything above that would be an overpay.

Remember when 6 x 5 was below market value for Myers.   It really depends who is the best UFA in any given year, if your a RHD you often get a premium.   Once in awhile, a player way overvalues their worth.   Klingberg was offered 56 (7 x 8), no state tax team to boot (Dallas), he wanted even more because he was the best RHD available ... and completely flopped in free agency.   Mis read the market maybe.  It happens.   Then his 7 x 1 deal, was considered one of the worst contracts in hockey for as a single season AVV, and his career is likely going to be scraps for the remainder.    It cuts both ways.   Market value is just that - market value and it's difficult to determine.   Cap is going up.  It's going to get gobbled fast though.   Can see Allvin's strategy in getting this done before the off-season, because you can bet on their been some awfully bad deals getting made then.   To add to the pile (Nurse, Jones, Vlasic, OEL's last deal, Klingberg one year deal was awful return,  Myers, Erik Johnson last deal,  Trouba...etc etc). 

 

   As a team, you don't have to throw money at something, if it's not warranted.    Hronek has had a very good season for us...there is nothing wrong with a 5 year deal,  or an 8 year deal, and like EP,  it's not going to be his "12 plus".    When you get to over 8%  of your cap for one defenseman, that's legit  top pairing coin.    The league has a laundry list of overpaid D's,  Hronek doesn't have the same pedigree as some of those.   Don't think we need to worry too much.   50 million is a lot of dough.   Sure he'd be happy to take that deal. 

 

   Personally think it's going to come in at around 7.05.     That's fair, also think it's market value for now, who knows after this years round of UFAs are locked up.   If he stayed in Detroit and scored around 40 points, what would Detroit offer him?   Guessing around 6 x 5. 

[Alflives]

35 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Remember when 6 x 5 was below market value for Myers.   It really depends who is the best UFA in any given year, if your a RHD you often get a premium.   Once in awhile, a player way overvalues their worth.   Klingberg was offered 56 (7 x 8), no state tax team to boot (Dallas), he wanted even more because he was the best RHD available ... and completely flopped in free agency.   Mis read the market maybe.  It happens.   Then his 7 x 1 deal, was considered one of the worst contracts in hockey for as a single season AVV, and his career is likely going to be scraps for the remainder.    It cuts both ways.   Market value is just that - market value and it's difficult to determine.   Cap is going up.  It's going to get gobbled fast though.   Can see Allvin's strategy in getting this done before the off-season, because you can bet on their been some awfully bad deals getting made then.   To add to the pile (Nurse, Jones, Vlasic, OEL's last deal, Klingberg one year deal was awful return,  Myers, Erik Johnson last deal,  Trouba...etc etc). 

 

   As a team, you don't have to throw money at something, if it's not warranted.    Hronek has had a very good season for us...there is nothing wrong with a 5 year deal,  or an 8 year deal, and like EP,  it's not going to be his "12 plus".    When you get to over 8%  of your cap for one defenseman, that's legit  top pairing coin.    The league has a laundry list of overpaid D's,  Hronek doesn't have the same pedigree as some of those.   Don't think we need to worry too much.   50 million is a lot of dough.   Sure he'd be happy to take that deal. 

 

   Personally think it's going to come in at around 7.05.     That's fair, also think it's market value for now, who knows after this years round of UFAs are locked up.   If he stayed in Detroit and scored around 40 points, what would Detroit offer him?   Guessing around 6 x 5. 

Maybe Hronek is thinking he would be the point man on the pp on a lot of teams, like he was in Detroit? Hughes is a generational talent, so Hronek isn’t going to displace him, but opportunity elsewhere (like Detroit) could be what Hronek wants? Then he could add 20 pp points to 50 and be a 70 point guy. That’s a guy who gets paid, just not here. If we can’t agree to a fair contract for Hronek for his role here, then will trade him for a huge haul because there will be clubs that see him as that 70 point number one guy.

[Bob Long]

20 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Some folks would seemingly rather not have someone at all if he's not willing to take a team friendly deal and that's just not realistic. Even top teams have to pay full value sometimes, I don't see why paying market value has to be viewed as a loss when it's more of a norm. 

 

For me it's more about management setting it's price, and if the player won't fit the plan, having the fortitude to make a change.

[CanuckMan]

9 hours ago, Amebushi said:

Am I missing something here?  That is only three players unless we are paying Hughes twice. Kinda guessing Miller belongs in there right now?  All I know is that this team is better with a Hronek on it than not. I think this management team is going to figure out how to keep him and Big Z around. Some other pieces may need to be shuffled but that is what contenders do. One top defenceman is not enough. We have years of mediocrity to prove it. Hoping for something that starts with a 7 but right handed defence that can play with a Hughes at a high level don’t grow on trees. 

I accidentally typed Hughes twice. Hronek was supposed to be the 4th name

[Sativika]

It's evident that no matter who is paired with Huggy, they're gonna flourish in regards to more ice time and more opportunities to pad their stat sheets. Hronek is the benefactor in this regard. 

 

Though it may seem he's the defecto RD for Huggy, and at this point, rightly (No pun intended!) so, He's yet to prove that he can lead a pairing of his own without Huggy. Whether that's with one of the guys we have, or someone we acquire in the off season. Who knows. 

 

Honestly, I'm okay with paying the man. But with a condition; a long term contract to show his commitment and conviction that he wants to be a part of this team and it's goals to succeed. That's pretty much it.

 

In no way shape or form should his salary exceed that of Huggy's.  That wouldn't make any sense. However one can look at it in such a way that when Huggy's pay day comes at the end of his current contract, it' will surpass Hronek's exponentially!

 

That is to say that if Hronek gets signed for more than what Huggy's getting now, so long as it's long term, I'm okay with that. However, this could all mean nothing. Dude might not like what we're willing to give him and he might walk. That's a possibility we gotta keep in mind.

 

Aside from our core, I'm sure our roster will look very different next season. Obviously would like to keep some key guys in Daks, Blueger, and I don't know what management thinks of situations regarding Zads, Lindholm, Cole. I'm sure it comes down to how the playoffs shake out and cap space scenarios next season. But in short..............

 

Yea. Pay the man if he is committed.

[Reznor]

16 hours ago, yawn said:

 just don't resign Myers. He's holding 6 million and we look better without Myers than we have all season. Soucy is a major upgrade. 

 

I really really really like that Zadorov brings grit to our team and isn't afraid to stand up to guys, play the body but has good hands too. Seriously underrated imo. 

 

Somebody also posted a stats page for Hronek and those numbers are very misleading. When ur playing with Hughes all year, ur gonna look good regardless who you are. That's not to say he's a bad player without Hughes, he's just inflated by Hughes (good for him bad for management)

If you look at it from the perspective that we are adding just a bit to Myers' 6m contract, yet receive SOOOO much more of a defenseman as a result, it makes Hronek's next salary seem more palatable. 

As for Zadorov - I like the guy and he brings a good size element, but I felt the opposite from you - whereby I felt he wasn't bringing everything to this team that I expected, and perhaps was OVERrated. Namely: He doesn't throw himself around as much as I'd like. When you have a guy like Zadorov or Myers on your team, they are there because of their size. Ideally, you want them to wreck the opposition. And if they aren't willing to use their size at every reasonable opportunity, then it's wasted extra money that you can replace with just an average defenseman of the dime-a-dozen variety. Honestly, I don't see THAT much difference between Zadorov and Juulsen. Both are a physical presence, both play a pretty solid defensive game and neither stifle the play, but neither are particularly offensive players either. Zadorov does hold the edge in that regard, and he should - as he will be paid about 5 times as much as Juulsen next season. I guess we'll see in the playoffs if he can be a difference maker or not. If not, I say we let him walk for the price he's looking for.

As for Hronek's inflated stats - yes - that's what many of us are saying. Playing with Hughes makes him look like a better player than he really is. I'm also afraid this won't be considered and factored during contract negotiations. Ideally, we don't really want him on the 1st pairing at all. Ideally, you'd split up the offensive threat by pairing each guy with a defensive-minded guy. (Coincidently, there are a couple such guys becoming available by UFA) 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

For me it's more about management setting it's price, and if the player won't fit the plan, having the fortitude to make a change.

 

Sure, and management has to try their best

 

But you're not always going to get guys under market value, and sometimes you're gonna have to budge, that goes for both sides of course 

 

Sometimes you're gonna pay full price, if you fish for UFA's it may even be more 

 

Some players are easier to walk away from or replace, others are less so

[yawn]

43 minutes ago, Reznor said:

If you look at it from the perspective that we are adding just a bit to Myers' 6m contract, yet receive SOOOO much more of a defenseman as a result, it makes Hronek's next salary seem more palatable. 

As for Zadorov - I like the guy and he brings a good size element, but I felt the opposite from you - whereby I felt he wasn't bringing everything to this team that I expected, and perhaps was OVERrated. Namely: He doesn't throw himself around as much as I'd like. When you have a guy like Zadorov or Myers on your team, they are there because of their size. Ideally, you want them to wreck the opposition. And if they aren't willing to use their size at every reasonable opportunity, then it's wasted extra money that you can replace with just an average defenseman of the dime-a-dozen variety. Honestly, I don't see THAT much difference between Zadorov and Juulsen. Both are a physical presence, both play a pretty solid defensive game and neither stifle the play, but neither are particularly offensive players either. Zadorov does hold the edge in that regard, and he should - as he will be paid about 5 times as much as Juulsen next season. I guess we'll see in the playoffs if he can be a difference maker or not. If not, I say we let him walk for the price he's looking for.

As for Hronek's inflated stats - yes - that's what many of us are saying. Playing with Hughes makes him look like a better player than he really is. I'm also afraid this won't be considered and factored during contract negotiations. Ideally, we don't really want him on the 1st pairing at all. Ideally, you'd split up the offensive threat by pairing each guy with a defensive-minded guy. (Coincidently, there are a couple such guys becoming available by UFA) 

Yeah sorry lemme rephrase my thoughts on Zadorov. He doesn't use his body as much as you would expect him to but I don't mind that. In today's league, if he hit any of the guys he'd probably be called for elbowing. Not cause he did, but just that's where his elbow is compared to their head is on most players. But he does stand up for the guys and is willing to fight if needed. He's also good at getting in the players heads / throwing them off. 

 

The biggest reason I don't like Myers is he's just a gentle giant. He puts up respectable points but I mean is an absolute monstrosity defensively. Always out of position, makes bad plays, doesn't use his size, takes stupid penalties. I'm not saying he's a bad guy but I would rather have Myers walk away and use his 6 million and put it towards giving a raise to Hronek and Hughes. Mind you Myers hasn't been gone that long but if this is what the team looks like down there 6 mil player, then obviously the contract is way over inflated. 

 

What scares me are reports management wants to resign Myers. Unless it's for like 1 or 2 mil a year I just don't understand why. I'm not even gonna bother looking it up but I would stake my virtual pride there's a UFA or prospect that can do what Myers does for less. 

[Coryberg]

20 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

I take Toews anyday over Hronek

But 5 years from now do you?

[Reznor]

23 hours ago, yawn said:

The biggest reason I don't like Myers is he's just a gentle giant. He puts up respectable points but I mean is an absolute monstrosity defensively. Always out of position, makes bad plays, doesn't use his size, takes stupid penalties. I'm not saying he's a bad guy but I would rather have Myers walk away and use his 6 million and put it towards giving a raise to Hronek and Hughes. Mind you Myers hasn't been gone that long but if this is what the team looks like down there 6 mil player, then obviously the contract is way over inflated. 

 

What scares me are reports management wants to resign Myers. Unless it's for like 1 or 2 mil a year I just don't understand why. I'm not even gonna bother looking it up but I would stake my virtual pride there's a UFA or prospect that can do what Myers does for less. 

I think if you look at Myers' entire scope of work, he's not as bad as you make him out to be. He often fails the eye test - that much I will completely agree with. When he makes defensive mistakes, he tends to look silly out there. He also tends to take penalties just due to his size, and the nature of the fact he often tends to make contact high as a result - as you are mentioning regarding the risk to Zadorov. And nobody will dispute Myers is overpaid at 6m. But he DOES bring that size to lean on players against the board, and he's one of our best shot blockers. It isn't that he's useless - he just doesn't live up to the 6m hype. At all.

 

I also don't want him if his ask is even half of his latest salary. Catch me on a good day, and 2.5m is the most I'd be interested to see management pay - though I imagine some GM elsewhere is salivating at the idea of bringing in a 6'8 defenseman for 3.5-4.5m.

[PureQuickness]

8 minutes ago, Reznor said:

I think if you look at Myers' entire scope of work, he's not as bad as you make him out to be. He often fails the eye test - that much I will completely agree with. When he makes defensive mistakes, he tends to look silly out there. He also tends to take penalties just due to his size, and the nature of the fact he often tends to make contact high as a result - as you are mentioning regarding the risk to Zadorov. And nobody will dispute Myers is overpaid at 6m. But he DOES bring that size to lean on players against the board, and he's one of our best shot blockers. It isn't that he's useless - he just doesn't live up to the 6m hype. At all.

 

I also don't want him if his ask is even half of his latest salary. Catch me on a good day, and 2.5m is the most I'd be interested to see management pay - though I imagine some GM elsewhere is salivating at the idea of bringing in a 6'8 defenseman for 3.5-4.5m.

 

Myers' game has improved leaps and bounds since the coaching staff has come in. He's stabilized so much because they actually have helped his game. He's not nearly as bad as what people make him out to be.

[Optimist Prime]

I think we need to sign Hronek, we need to sign Lindholm, we need to sign big Z, and we really should sign Joshua. 

We have 25,528,333 next year in the cap space to get those done and a couple more D and a couple more Forwards.

 

I think we can hang onto those four with two or three multi year deals and one or two 1 year deals,  i guess bridge is what we are calling it. 
The cap will go up year over year now, I think that is obvious, so maybe the key will be short deals for our RFA's, Hronek, Podz, Silovs and lock up the UFA's: Zadorov, LIndholm?

[HKSR]

I mathematically predicted Petey at $12M, and he came in slightly under...

 

Doing the same with Hronek, I have him pegged at $8M AAV... so if I'm a betting man, I'd bet Hronek comes in between $7.5 and $8M.